Arsenal@LHR
Topic Author
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

TWA Routes From JFK

Fri Dec 28, 2001 10:38 am

Ofcourse TWA doesn't exist anymore since AA took over, but before this over the last few years, what international and domestic routes did TWA operate from JFK and with what aircraft?

Any info appreciated

Regards
Arsenal@LHR






In Arsene we trust!!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24723
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Fri Dec 28, 2001 10:42 am

Up until the end they had MIA, SJU, LAX, SFO, CDG, CAI-RUH, and TLV. In the not so distant pass they also had LGW, MXP, FCO, MAD, BCN, FRA, and LIS, among others.
a.
 
EI133
Posts: 300
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RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Fri Dec 28, 2001 10:47 am

I remember up to about three years ago a TWA 747 used to fuel stop and crew change in Shannon at about 3am in the morning on its westbound service from Tel Aviv.
 
Guest

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Fri Dec 28, 2001 5:32 pm

In its latest years TW flights out of JFK were operated by MD-80s, 767-200s, and 767-300ERs.

Prior to that L1011s, 727-200s, and 747-100s were prevalent also.

TWConnection service at JFK was operated by TSA with J-41s and J-32s.

Cities served include those mentioned by Mah4546 and PBI, FLL, TPA, MCO, MSY, STL, SNA, SEA, ANU, AUA, SXM, PUJ, NAS, FPO.
 
Fleet Service
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 11:58 am

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Fri Dec 28, 2001 6:36 pm

Trans States never operated J32's at JFK for TWE.J41's only.
Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
 
thomacf
Posts: 525
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RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 1:08 am

Up until I believe 1998 they flew CLE-JFK with MD-80's and 727's.
 
Stretch 8
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RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 1:25 am

In February 1998, my wife and I flew RT in "TransWorld One" from JFK to Rome/FCO. It was a pleasant experience. I was a bit sad to see the old TWA go away.
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 3:32 am

What I remember is that TW flew out of JFK to LHR, CDG, FCO, CAI, RID, TLV, SFO, LAX, MIA, FRA, ORD, ATH, MILAN, ZRH, AMS, Istanbul among others. This was during their heyday. TW also flew to BOM via CAI If TW was still around and idiot Icahn didn't sell off LHR for a low price then TW would still fy to all these destinations with the exception of BOM and the Mid east. i'm not sure if they'd fly to FCO considering that so many airlines are pulling out and going for Milan. Istanbul, MAD, LIS, BCN, AMS and ATH would be another question. I do beleive that TW could've made JFK a strong domesticand Carribean base. I don't know if they'd be strong enough to combat AA and CO in South America. Anyone care to take a guess?

TW would still have a strong presenc at LHR and CDG if Ichan didn't sell of LHR and the airline was better runned.
"FUIMUS"
 
America West
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 6:54 am

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 8:12 am

TWExpress operated JFK-CMH. I flew that route twice, but I have no clue which aircraft it was.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 9:53 am

At its peak, TWA operated between 100 and 150 daily flights out of JFK, which was TWA's second hub after St. Louis-Lambert International. JFK was TWA's gateway to Europe and the Middle East. During the late 1980's, TWA was the leading US carrier across the Atlantic with flights from JFK to:

Amsterdam
Athens
Barcelona
Berlin
Brussels
Copenhagen
Frankfurt
Geneva
Istanbul
Lisbon
London/Heathrow
Madrid
Milan
Moscow
Munich
Nice
Oslo
Paris
Rome
Stuttgart
Stockholm
Tel Aviv
Zurich

Kuwait City, Bombay, Cairo, and Riyadh as well....Some of the above were offered as one stop flights via a European city, like CDG or LHR.

TWA had extensive LAX/SFO operations from JFK and a number of domestic routes. The airline operated from Terminals 5 and 6. Terminal 5 (Saarinen) was the official International terminal. Terminal 6 was used for domestic and TW Express flights.

ContinentalEWR
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 10:00 am

TWA's premier North Atlantic routes were flown with the 747-100/200. These included JFK to:

London/Heathrow
Paris
Rome
Milan
Athens
Madrid
Tel Aviv

Secondary European destinations (Amsterdam, Brussels, Lisbon, Zurich) were flown with L1011's.

Thinner routes (Oslo, Copenhagen, Stockholm) were flown with 767-200's.

Most short and medium-haul domestic flights operated with B727-200's, MD80's, and some DC9's.

Transcontinental flights operated with L1011's with one 747 doing an LAX or SFO rotation.

ContinentalEWR
 
Arsenal@LHR
Topic Author
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 10:04 am

Looks as if TWA was a massive airline in its days. Sad that its all gone now.

Anyway thanks for all the info

Regards
Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
blink182
Posts: 5280
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 12:33 pm

So here comes the multi-million dollar question...

Does anyone think American will restart service to any of these destinations? I don't mean from JFK, but from MIA,DFW,ORD and possibly STL?

I'd say Amsterdam and Zurich and Madrid have chances, but I wouldn't expect any new services untill at the earliest, spring 2002.

rgds,
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Fleet Service
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 11:58 am

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 3:51 pm

I wouldn't expect to see AA aircraft flying into Spain,we codeshare with Oneworld partner Iberia.
Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 5:23 pm

AA will not start AMS LIS or Spain. Atleast that is what I was told. AA is the only big 6 carrier not to fly there. STL is pretty much a domestic hub like DFW with the exception of Gatwick, CDG and maybe FRA. The mideast is a big no no at this point and time. FCO is dying off. milan is more business than FCO is. Even Milan is a pipedream. I won't be surprised if AA doesn't restart even a thrid of these routes. They might do something with HKG as AA wants to do more Trans pac.
"FUIMUS"
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 5:26 pm

in 1997 i flew

ORD-JFK-BCN-JFK-ORD on TWA

it was a

727-200 (now gone) ORD-JFK (now gone)
747-100 (now gone) JFK-BCN (now gone)
767-200 BCN-JFK (now gone)
MD-83 JFK-ORD (now gone)

out 747 was a weird flight because they combined a 762 and 741 onto 1 741 and our flight was JFK-BCN-CDG, but we got off at BCN.

twa902 chicago

i will ALWAYS remember taking off on that TWA 727 into a crisp blue sky, my first memory of a flight when i was into aviation
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24723
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 5:28 pm

Ummmm....AA flies to Spain daily. Miami-Madrid (in addition to daily JFK-MAD and ORD-MAD codeshares with IB and double-daily MIA-MAD codeshare with IB), a huge money-maker. In the future? I could see Miami-Barcelona and Miami-Lisbon. AA has the DOT route authority for both routes secured.
a.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24723
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 5:40 pm

This is what I could envision for AA over the Atlantic and Pacific in the next 4-5 years (* are current routes), assuming that everything goes back to normal growth levels, which I think will be the case:

BOS-CDG*
BOS-LHR*
BOS-NRT

DFW-CDG*
DFW-FRA*
DFW-LGW*
DFW-MAD
DFW-NRT*
DFW-ZRH*

JFK-BRU
JFK-CDG*
JFK-LHR*
JFK-ZRH*

LAX-LHR*

MIA-BCN
MIA-BRU
MIA-CDG*
MIA-FRA
MIA-HEL (if not, an AY codeshare)
MIA-LIS
MIA-LHR*
MIA-MAD*
MIA-MAN
MIA-NRT
MIA-ZRH

ORD-AMS
ORD-ARN
ORD-BHX*
ORD-BRU*
ORD-CDG*
ORD-FRA*
ORD-FCO*
ORD-GLA*
ORD-HEL (if not, an AY codeshare)
ORD-HKG
ORD-KIX
ORD-LHR*
ORD-MAN*
ORD-NRT*
ORD-TPE

SJC-LGW
SJC-NRT*

STL-LGW*
STL-CDG

AA's future goals are clear: Become even stronger in Latin America, make STL a strong mid-sized domestic hub, make DFW a strong domestic hub, make ORD a strong global hub, make JFK and SJC strong focus cities, and make MIA thier "Gateway to the World" hub (which is what they are calling thier new terminal). The best oppurtunities for trans-Atlantic growth for AA are out of ORD and MIA.
a.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24723
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 5:45 pm

Not sure how many people remember this, but in 1999, AA announced six new long-hauls:

BOS-NRT

JFK-FRA
JFK-NRT

MIA-ASU

ORD-AMS
ORD-SVO

But AA canceled all but JFK-FRA (which lasted like a few months) due to "weak economic conditions". MIA-ASU eventually did start and is still running daily, but via GRU. AA still has the route authority for all six of the routes, in addition to Chicago-Budapest, aforementioned Miami-Lisbon and Miami-Barcelona, along with Miami-Malaga (Spain).
a.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sat Dec 29, 2001 9:55 pm

American won't be adding much in the way of international service anytime soon. Don't expect those JFK-Europe frequencies that TWA operated to be restarted either. AA code shares with IB to Madrid and service to Italy from JFK is well covered by AZ and DL and CO and AZ from EWR. You may see a JFK-BRU flight resume (AA operated one from 1987 to 1996) since SN has failed, but that is also a pipe dream. Even when SN operated, BRU was overserved.

ContinentalEWR
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1579
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sun Dec 30, 2001 1:17 am

If AA does not have long-term (4-5 or more yrs) plans to build JFK into an international hub/fortress, why are they spending the millions on the new Terminal?

I would expect them to re-start select routes when economic conditions warrant. Code-shares are fine, to a point, but eventually they will want more of those dollars for themselves. And what if IB drops out of one-world, or someone else? Bet that AA would schedule flights into those cities ASAP.
 
Fleet Service
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 11:58 am

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sun Dec 30, 2001 2:19 am

Once the new terminal is completed it's a fairly safe bet that you'll see JFK utilized as a major international gateway.That was the rationale behind this massive undertaking in the first place.

JFK flying has been reduced due to the construction as well as the post Sept 11 capacity reductions.We've lost 7 gates to construction, that is a big chunk of space.

We are currently operating with twenty gates, when the new terminal is completed, there will be 37 mainline gates and twenty RJ gates.Those 17 additional gates will bring about an increase in service from JFK.

From informal conversations I've had with various supervisors at work,you'll probably see all of the Oneworld carriers (With the exception of BA) operating from the new terminal on completion.From a passenger stand point,it will simplify connections to the other Oneworld carriers.Going outside the Terminal and getting a bus to connect to EI for example,is shoddy and also increases the risk of misconnecting the passengers.



Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
 
ryanair
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 1:41 am

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sun Dec 30, 2001 3:04 am

At the end of the TWA name the only trans atlantic route was STL-LGW with everything else shut down. Just before Chapter 11 they only had two or three routes across the atlantic left at JFK, I think Paris, Tel Aviv and Cairo-Riyadh left, flown with 767's.
 
airafriquedkr
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri May 04, 2001 12:16 pm

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sun Dec 30, 2001 5:08 am

Mah4546-

AA has began operating MIA-GRU-ASU in the early 90's.
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sun Dec 30, 2001 9:14 am

The swtch of international routes from JFK to ORD and MIA is quite perminant. Alot of AA employees at JFK have said it is due to lack of O & D. Even with the new Terminal you won't see anything past LHR, CDG and ZRH on the international front. Maybe a JFK-AMS but I doubt that. I did think of a JFK-Milan but that is too well covered by AZ and DL. FCO is too much of a leausure destiantion so that is dying off. Too bad because I loved FCO rather than mialn. There are way better and more sights to see than in Milan which is more realted to the fashion industry.
"FUIMUS"
 
TOMASKEMPNER
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed May 02, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sun Dec 30, 2001 10:25 am

I doubt a MAD-DFW will be profitable, but everything could happen, maybe 3 or 5 x week on 767-200ER.

BOS-NRT would be an extremely important route and the first flight from Boston to Asia, is there a large demand of seats between both cities ? Maybe people flying from BOS to NRT go through JFK and EWR or even ORD ?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24723
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sun Dec 30, 2001 11:36 am

MAD-DFW was operated in the early 1990s. The flight was not popular, and it was moved to MIA (were it has been a huge hit, of course). However, that was before Iberia. I could definitley see DFW-MAD again in the future. BOS-NRT was announced by AA in 1999, but due to weak economic conditions and and slot restrictions at Narita, the flight (as well as JFK-NRT) never came to surface. BOS did have Korean Air service, however, in the not so distant past. It was not non-stop (via ORD?), though. Once economic conditions improve, I can definitley see MIA-NRT and BOS-NRT. Those two cities, DEN, and PHL are the three cities that I think can support non-stop NRT service and don't have it, yet.

DKR, thanks, I did not know that. Do you happen to know when AA started flights to MVD?
a.
 
airafriquedkr
Posts: 392
Joined: Fri May 04, 2001 12:16 pm

RE: TWA Routes From JFK

Sun Dec 30, 2001 12:34 pm

AA began MIA-GRU-MVD service in 1995 (or maybe 96).

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