Airlines Not Waiting-question

Mon Aug 02, 1999 3:40 pm

Is it common for a departing flight not to wait for another flight coming in(same airline) that is carrying many passengers that need to make that first flight?
What I mean is this: I had a connecting flight in MSP to MSO. The first flight I was on from MKE to MSP took off a half hour late, so we arrived in MSP late. I ran, literally, with my seven year old child in tow, to the gate to catch my flight. That flight was scheduled to leave at 8:45. It was 8:42 when I got to the gate, only to be told that my connecting flight had left TEN minutes previously.
That flight I was to catch back to MSO was the only one that night, and once it arrives in MSO, it stays overnight. They left many people stranded in MSP that were supposed to be on that flight to MSO. What I wonder is, the airline must have known that the incoming flight was running late, yet they didn't wait for it, and in fact they departed early! To make it funny, the next night, the flight I finally got on had to wait for a half hour for the flight attendants to show up.
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Airlines Not Waiting-question

Mon Aug 02, 1999 5:47 pm

Hi Sontag!

I reed your topic with interest and I'm sure the airline that you flew really doesn't have a policy of "loving" passengers, after you told that is really bad, were both flights from the same airline? If yes they should have waited to the flight comming to take of, but I feel that in USA most airlines really look much for beeing on time on schedules, if for one side its good because you can really trust flying on time in the other way you can miss connections quite often if the early flight leave late!!!
I have a nice experience I would like to share with, that happened in 1989, I was flying from Rome to Lisbon with Alitalia via Milan, so I flew from Rome in a Alitalia A.300 to Milan and when I arrived there my other plane ( an Alitalia MD83 ) was waiting passengers from Rome to take off, and it was funny to see the Capt. looking by the cockpit window to see the bus comming with the Rome passengers and a few minutes latter, we started push-back and we took off, perhaps with some 15 minutes of delay but Alitalia didn't leave until other passengers boarded the plane!
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:02 am

RE: Airlines Not Waiting-question

Tue Aug 03, 1999 8:18 am

Several years ago I was to fly HNL-SFO-ATL-RIC on Continental and Eastern. They were both part of Texas Air and under Frank Lorenzo at the time. My Continental DC-10 was a couple of hours late taking off from Honolulu because the inbound aircraft had been delayed in Vancouver. We landed at San Francisco and I knew I would have to run to make my connecting Eastern flight to Atlanta. CO operated from one end of the terminal and EA from the opposite end, so I had to run a long way. When I got there, my Eastern A300 was still at the gate, but they refused to let me board, even though the jetway was still connected and the cabin door was open. They said that since I wasn't there 10 minutes before flight time, they gave my seat away to a standby. I was travelling on a OnePass award, and since Continental and Eastern both had the same owners, I thought they operated like one airline, and would know I was coming from a delayed flight. They told me I could get in line at the Eastern ticket counter and see if they could get me on their LAX-ATL flight, and if they could, I would have to fly from SFO-LAX at my own expense to catch it. After I had been in line for about 15 minutes, an Eastern agent came up to me and told me I had been protected on the next flight from SFO to ATL, so I wouldn't have to go to LAX. Why didn't they tell me that when they refused to let me board my original flight?

Bob Bradley
Richmond, VA
Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B

RE: Airlines Not Waiting-question

Tue Aug 03, 1999 8:36 am

The good of the many outweighs the good of the few. If the airline leaves you...they piss you off.
If the airline delays 99 others, they piss 99 people off.
Top Gun
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 8:13 am

YOU Greedy Passengers!

Tue Aug 03, 1999 12:21 pm

Do you think that the people who work for that airline knows your Intinery? I could give a rat's ass about the people behind me. I would care if "I" did something to them that was safety issue. You obviouly don't know how much it cost's to have an aircraft waiting. I highly doubt you where 3 minutes early for that flight Mr. Sontag. Also your watch isn't the watch that us pilots use. You have to consider other factors. How busy the airport traffic is, when we get our slot to leave. Ask someone in the front how annoying it is when someone complains about something that we do for the better of many more people. I am really disapointed that the passengers expect to much, you have no idea what really goes on. Their is two worlds in aviation. The pasengers and the real world.
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RE: YOU Greedy Passengers!

Wed Aug 04, 1999 8:11 am

Please tell me that you're not an airline captain! If you are, you should consider a new vocation. Even if this is how the 'real world' is, better to keep it to yourself than piss off the people who pay your salary.

I noticed that you don't have the testicular fortitude to tell us in your bio anything about yourself, so I am going to assume that you are really just a 15 year-old like you sound!
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

You Greedy Top Gun!

Wed Aug 04, 1999 10:46 pm

I agree with you Jim! This new class of pilots leave a lot to be desired, look the conversation of this "Mr. Top Gun". He's really a top gun guy! The hell with the passengers, who cares, has long has he takes is generous salary in the end on the month!!! We passengers with pilots like this one are in real trouble in the future, and the funny thing is these guys have this culture given by their airline!!! Well don't forget, we pay you - indirectly - but we pay your salary, and one day when you have a big trouble due to that or something else, we'll be here to crucify you. By the way, please tell us what airline do you fly "Top Gun" because I definetly want to take that airline out of my list!!!
Good flights to you and dont be late on your flight due to "us greedy passengers"!
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!

RE: YOU Greedy Passengers!

Thu Aug 05, 1999 11:28 am

In reply to the greedy passenger post: I was three min. early, as verified by the ticket agent, who checked on her computer and was astounded that the flight left ten min. early. Obviously, Top Gun, my question flew over your head. All I wondered was if it is normal for an airline not to wait for an incoming flight, run by the same airline, and even depart early. I did not say that I was mad about it, I had a simple, honest question. I thought that the people who work for an airline would know that one of their flights is coming in late. I don't know, I am NOT a pilot nor do I work for an airline.
Contrary to belief, we are not all greedy passengers.
And not all pilots can be bad-the ones I had on my NW flight were very nice. They took my son to the cockpit and showed him around, gave him "wings" and treated us nicely.
Ms. Sontag

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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 4:41 am

RE: The Plane Should Have Been Held

Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:18 pm

I was on a flight from MCO to BWI with a stop over in ATL. The Delta L-1011 from MCO-ATL was delayed due to emergency operations at the airport on the runway. We were 45 min late but the pilot gunned it and told all the passengers that we would be there in 40 min, usually a 1 hour flight. We began to descend and we were already cleared to land, as he informed us. Flight attendants were comming around the 1st class and coach seats to see when everyones connecting flight was. Mine was due to leave 8 min after we landed. The pilot ordered all connecting flights to be held, and there was transportation waiting at the gate to take us to the plane. We were also givin a free 1st class upgrade for the troubles. In most cases airlines hold the plane if the pilot radios ahead of whats going on. Now i don't know what airlines don't hold planes but i am sure that they lose business. Most people will understand because it could just as easily have been them. And in the case the plane is held the pilots will make the time up in the air, they prefer to get there quicker anyways.
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Joined: Wed Aug 04, 1999 5:18 pm

RE: The Plane Should Have Been Held

Thu Aug 05, 1999 2:11 pm are dreaming. The captain orders that all connecting flights be held. Right on.

Lets all calm down and then realize that the airlines are a business and in a business as dynamic as the airlines descisions are made on the spot based on the particular situation. This very question about holding for connecting passengers was addressed by the COO of the company that I work for. The answer was surprising indeed. On a daily basis approximately 10 percent of the flights were held for connecting paxs. These descisions were made by the planners who had a view of the big picture that included concerns such as minimum crew rest, noise abatement and blackouts at airports, number of paxs involved, enroute winds and weather, gates required for inbound aircraft ( if we did not leave the gate inbound aircraft cannot park and another set of problems is now created). The COO requested that as crewmembers we do our job as well as possible and not get emotional about connecting passengers. ( i.e. crewmembers not unilaterally delay aircraft for connecting paxs).

Sontag ... sorry about your experience I am sure there was a good reason. Glad the crewmembers treated you well on your next flight. I agree that they pay my paycheck and for that I am grateful
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 1999 6:37 pm

RE: Airlines Not Waiting-question

Thu Aug 05, 1999 8:04 pm

It really depends on the number of passengers making the connection, the frequency of the flights, how the arriving flight is, the amount of traffic, the weather, and a thousand other things. If 25 passengers have to make a connection to Pocatello, and it is the last flight of the day, then the plane will most certainly be held, if the arriving plane is within about 45 minutes of schedule, unless there is some serious weather, ATC problem or an aircraft waiting for that gate. But, if a few people need to make a connection to LAX, and their flight arrives 2 hours late, and there is a connecting flight every hour, then the airline won't inconvience dozens of other passengers just to satisfy one. It is certainly a situation, where you won't make everyone happy. You just have to see how many people you will inconvience on each end, and to how great an extent they will be inconvienenced. To hold a plane for a few minutes can be done with a very small reason, but the reason must get progressively larger for a plane to be held progressively longer. Also remember the good old domino effect. If you are in a prime connection city, like ORD, STL, DFW or such, when one late arrival from a large aircraft, could make a bunch of other planes late, and this could keep muliplying. So, it is important to draw the line somewhere, and just stick to inconviencing as few pax as is possible. Trying to rescue a few could make many more angry.

RE: Airlines Not Waiting-question

Thu Aug 05, 1999 10:45 pm

Thank you for the polite replies!
The reason I was even curious about my flight is because it is the last one of the day into my home airport. There are only 3 flights daily into my area on this airline, so that's why I wondered if it would have made sense for that flight to wait. And it was also a nonstop flight from MSP to here.
No big deal, I can roll with the punches and I spent a great day with my best friend due to being left in MSP!

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