DELTA777
Posts: 637
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 6:34 am

Northwests Fleet Plan

Sun Dec 30, 2001 6:17 am

Whats northwests fleet plan now? I know they ordered 757-300s to replace domestic DC-10s. What else are they doing?

D E L T A 7 7 7
 
PILOTALLEN
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 11:01 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Sun Dec 30, 2001 6:36 am

NW also has ordered A330's to replace the dc-10's as of 2003 i belive?
Thats not flying, thats falling with style -Woody
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Sun Dec 30, 2001 7:40 am

here we go again... do a search my friend and you will find TONS and TONS of info on this subject.

But to recap with factual and not speculative information.

DC10-40 domestic planes are to be replaced with the 757-300 starting next year some time.

DC10-30 Atlantic planes are to be replaced with the A330-300 starting in 2003 with about 12 to be retained for higher density domestic and Hawaii flying (this is pre 9/11 don't know if this is still in the plans).

The 727 is being replaced with 320/319 aircraft with several to be retained for the NHL and NBA charters

DC9s - no news on what is to replace this workhorse

747-200 - no news as to what will replace these - many of them are newer birds.

747-400 adding 2 next year to make a fleet of 16

319/320 - they continue to build this fleet with new ones arriving throughout next year

757-200 - more are arriving throughout 2002 and the 757-300 will complement this fleet

CRJs continue to arrive for the airlink affiliate Express Airlines I. It is yet to be determined as to who will fly the most recent order of 75 with 75 options for the CL-440 (CRJ-200 with 44 seats). Express is converting 50 seaters of their original award to 44 seat planes due to the scope clause with NW and the poportion of narrowbodies to RJs.

RJ85 fleet that is operated by Mesaba is capped at 36 for the scope clause with NW.

Saabs operated by Express and Mesaba continue to operate with the oldest ones (the A models) to be continued to be phased out of service with both companies. The Mesaba Saabs are the newest ones on the market of only a few years old. Soon, Mesaba will operate all the saabs in the NW Airlink system.

Any ?? let me know.

AZJ
 
zeus01
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:06 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Sun Dec 30, 2001 9:31 am

I hear January 7th is going to be a anoucment date for the DC-9 replacement. BUt thats just a rumor. Id bet well see either the 717 (md-95) or A318 or even a mix
Ands for the 742's. Well, id put money on it either a 744 total immerson or maybe a mmix of 744 and A340. NW is turing out to be a huge Aibus contract. That would be so sweet to have a A340-600 in NW colors. THeyll never get a 777 or 767 though.
ANy thoughts?
 
717fan
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:51 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Sun Dec 30, 2001 9:49 am

I hope that they will announce a huge 717 order.....
717fan
 
DELTA777
Posts: 637
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 6:34 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Sun Dec 30, 2001 11:27 am

I hope they would place an order for the 717s to replace the DC-9s. Thanks for all the help.

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Continental
Posts: 5222
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RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Sun Dec 30, 2001 12:14 pm

Will we see the NWA A330 here in MSP!!??

Continental
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Sun Dec 30, 2001 1:56 pm

Oh here goes the 717/A318 rumors again. I'm surprised the Do928 wasn't dropped in there too.

I can't remember what site it was, I just spent 20 minutes trying to locate this fleet order site, but about 2 years back it showed that Northwest had an interest in a possible 100 A318s, but keep in mind that is an interest.

I believe Northwest will replace the DC-9s soon, because in a couple years Stage 4 noise goes into effect and I don't know if it is possible to retrofit a DC-9 again any furthur and had they known, they would have retrofitted them a few years back when they did Stage III.

I don't know what will replace the DC-9, but I could probably put my money on that we will know for sure in 2002 some time.

As for replacements for 742s, I'm not going to start any rumors as to what will replace them whether it is a 772, 773, A340 or 744. Some of those 742s are newer than some of Northwest's earliest 757s
 
zeus01
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:06 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Sun Dec 30, 2001 2:17 pm

Continental, I think we will see the A330 here. It should replace the AMS route and LGW route as well as probably fly a MSP-DTW or MSP MEM one day. I hear there going to use a few for domestic. Id bet we might see some 767 orders to.
Hlydwcraft, your right. People rag on their 742's, but many of them are less than 15 years old. And they way NW takes care of their planes, they might be here a while. But instead of replacement, Id bet we may see some expansion. We already have wiht the 744 orders. Id doubt NW ever gets any 777 though. Theyve got to good of a deal with Airbus I hear. But we can hope.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3961
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Sun Dec 30, 2001 2:38 pm

Alot of the NW pilots think that the 9's will just be phased out and replaced with A319's..... no 318's or 717's.

Chicks dig winglets.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Sun Dec 30, 2001 3:41 pm

I'm trying to think of some of the routes that Northwest currently uses a DC-9 on out of Detroit.

Detroit uses a DC-9 from DTW to Flint which is about 50 miles away, they also use the CRJ and Saab 340 on that route. I don't know if they would want to use an A319 on a route that short. They may however add another CRJ in its place once they get rid of the DC-9s.

Detroit does use the DC-9 a lot on other relatively short hops DTW to Flint, Lansing, Grand Rapids, Traverse City, Tri Cities, and Cleveland. Do you think they would use an A319 on those routes in the future, or would they get an aircraft that size that would be good for short runs like a 717, or would they add a couple of CRJ's in its place?
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Sun Dec 30, 2001 4:48 pm

You people are dreaming if you think there will be an announcement on Jan 7 for a DC9 replacement. HELLO??? Does it look like a good time to be spending additional money when it isn't necessary? Those 9s are paid for, the most reliable plane in the fleet and can go on flying for another several years. It makes no sense to replace them now. So it is just that.... it was "heard" that Jan 7th will be an announcement for the 9 replacements. Perhaps Favre can comment on this?

AZJ
 
boeing767-300
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 11:23 pm

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Mon Dec 31, 2001 1:08 pm

I forget the exact number but as of december 2001 Northwest had about 160 DC-9s.

It is staggering how many are 1966 1967 and 68' 69 vintage. These are the money makers for NW. They owe the company nothing!

NW has wisely not gone down the (Replace them for the hell of it) scenario.

I think if the 717 is half as good as the DC-9 then they should replace their fleet with 717s, otherwise NW will risk going down the not necessary road of new airbusses but don't really need them or can afford them like Air canada, UAL and US Airways have.

I'm a Boieng man.. no question, but those NW DC-9s they're an Honest Reliable dependable long living workhorse like no other(732s included)

My 2 cents worth
 
zeus01
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:06 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Mon Dec 31, 2001 1:47 pm

Azjubliee: Once again we meet to but heads. ANyway, it wouldd make sense if NW anouced a plan soon do to the fact it will take years to get a order processed. Remeber, NW isn't doing that bad, comparibly. Besides they well have to be replaced due to thje Stage 4 noise reduction act. According to boeing, the can't be fitted anyfurther. THose DC'9s are maxed out with upgrades.
I agree with boeing767-300, those DC-9's are great. I really respect NW for not wasting money and replacing aircraft just for the heck of it. THat one reason there doing do well right now. I stil think we will see a A318 and 717 mixed fleet.But that my opinion.

Anyone think there will ever be a 767 order?
 
zeus01
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:06 am

DC9 Amount

Mon Dec 31, 2001 1:48 pm

Correct me if Im wrong but this inflight magazine says 173 DC-9 10, 30, 40, 50
 
boeing767-300
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 11:23 pm

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Mon Dec 31, 2001 2:11 pm

160 / 173 who cares... 160 was a guess from the screeds of DC-9s (from memory) in Bill Harms Census list.
It is the principle not the Exact number.
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1705
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

If They Could Do It, NW Would Keep 'em

Mon Dec 31, 2001 3:10 pm

NW used to be held up as an example of the benefits of retrofitting versus buying a new fleet, but those 9's are still the loudest, smokiest things in the air. Their partner Continental, with its shiny new 737's, must be embarrassed for them. The continued presence of DC-9's in NW's fleet is an example of their willingness to pinch every last penny. They can't get those new A319's soon enough.
 
acidradio
Crew
Posts: 1595
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RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Mon Dec 31, 2001 4:15 pm

They seem to use A319/320's on all sorts of short hops as well as on longer hops already. They are used on runs like MSP-DLH, MSP-ORD and MSP-MDW. I doubt that NW is going to go any other direction than the A318, since it already falls in quite well with their fleet of 319's and 320's. Soon, with the exception of the 747 and 757 (which Airbus does not, at least at the moment have EXACT equivalents of, and the A321 is not exactly the size of a 757), NW is going to have a mostly Airbus fleet.

So what is the big deal about some people in India hijacking a bus to the airport?
Mom, they hijacked a large airplane.
But they are talking about an airbus.
Mom, Airbus makes airplanes. Big airplanes. They compete with Boeing.
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
boeing767-300
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 11:23 pm

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Mon Dec 31, 2001 4:47 pm

Well good luck to North West but they owe nothing on the DC-9s and when they start replacing them with Airbuses then they'll need good luck.

With the exception of Jetblue(No one knows the financial results) and frontier(still too many 737s yet to be replaced) everybody else buying large amounts of A319/A320s in North America is not doing so good.
Air canada, UAL, Canada 3000, US Airways, America west.

If I were NW I would replace the DC-9 fleet with the 717. They'll probably last 35 years sturdy service as well.... longer than anything else. (This is a Boeing Man praising DC Jets!!!!)
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: DC9 Amount

Mon Dec 31, 2001 5:11 pm

I would love to see those DC-10's stay, at least a couple of them.

Also I wish they would keep the good old 727's. I flew in one of those from PHL-DTW a month ago and it was great. They have great performance. They can cruise up to .87 m.

-Dmitry
 
Rhino4ever
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2001 2:28 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Mon Dec 31, 2001 10:54 pm

Don't hold your breath for a nwa order for A-318/B717's. Old news the A318 isn't attractive. Engine proximity to jetway (already dinged two A-319's) and cargo door hard to access due to close and awkward angle to it. Count on the 44 seat crj and A-319/320's to fill the narrowbody flying. They are picking up a new airbus every two weeks for the next few years. A conservative and sound fleet plan that is benefiting them during this time. With the A-319/320/ training cost vs the old DC-9/M-80/B-727 fleet, short/long haul options/cargo capacity/passenger preference, fuel efficiency, AND technical support. (many airlines getting tired of working with Boeing, their arrogance and cost of doing every little thing) NWA has a very sound fleet plan.
 
DELTA777
Posts: 637
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 6:34 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Mon Dec 31, 2001 11:08 pm

How many northwest DC-9s have the new 717 interior in them?

D E L T A 7 7 7
 
milemaster
Posts: 1001
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RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Mon Dec 31, 2001 11:20 pm

I feel that simply because the majority of airlines have dumped their DC9's to Tier 2 airlines, doesn't mean they're not suitable for a major to operate. Lots of things to consider when updating a fleet.

The DC9 is a great, stable & simple aircraft.

I sure would like to see new NW 717's however!
 
sterne82
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 4:50 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Mon Dec 31, 2001 11:35 pm

"We don't know the Jet Blue's result..."

Is it true? I seriously doubt that!

Regards
 
travellin'man
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 1:55 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Tue Jan 01, 2002 12:55 am

For the person who asked about a 767 order:

There have been rumors floating around on this site that NWA might try to pick up a new, medium sized, longer range craft to overfly Amsterdam to reach Eastern European destinations from DTW and MSP, such as Warsaw. Speculation has fallen on the 762 and even on NWA launching a new 751, a longer range 757. Both aircraft fit into their current fleet in terms of the common 767/757 type rating, so it doesn't seem too outrageous, though spending any money these days on new planes does!

Does anyone else have any info or ideas?
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Tue Jan 01, 2002 2:34 am

Was the A330-100 proposal dropped. Wasn't that the A330 that was supposed to be a successor to the A300 in terms of size?
 
zeus01
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:06 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Tue Jan 01, 2002 2:39 am

I see what your saying travellin man. ITs true right now about NW's fleet, it is pretty sound. BUt here;s my logic with a mixed 717 and A318 fleet. A318 can easily be used on routes of long distance, but little passenger yeild. Then a 717 could be used on the routes that a DC-9 currently serves, though some serve pretty far destinations.
Here' my logic also on them picking up a 767 type. WIth the fuel efficiency of that compared to its smallest widebody, the DC-10, it would in the long run save them a lot of money if they bought new ones. Remeber back 2 years ago when the annoucned all the new aircraft, well, when I e-maield them, the told me that was only the first part of a fleet renewal. THis was only last week. Anyone know what kind of interiors the DC-10 is modeled after?n ( the upgraded ones)
 
Guest

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Tue Jan 01, 2002 2:41 am

NW will go for the A340-500/600 if Airbus offers them a PW4000 series engine as an option. If they can't get a PW4000 series engine on the A340 they will go to Boeing and order 747-400LRs to replace their 747-200 Classics.
 
ContinentalFan
Posts: 343
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RE: Continental & ALPA: Match Made In Hell!

Tue Jan 01, 2002 2:46 am

HlywdCatft,

The A330-100 (or later called the -500) was proposed by Airbus to replace A300s, but it turned out that such a shrink was too heavy. LH and SQ were the primary interested parties, I think, but they decided that such plane would be uneconomical for them to operated (esp. for LH, since they fly their A300s on shortish intra-Euro routes). So far, there isn't an exact modern equivalent replacement for the A300, that is a widebody short/medium range airliner. Only thing that comes close is 767-300, but it's not as wide.

Keeping it topical to this thread, I don't think that NWA ever considered the A330-500, the A330-300s they are ordering are perfect replacement for their DC-10s. They may need a plane to slot in between the DC-10/A330 and the 747, but as has been said a zillion times before, nothing's been decided yet.

Mike.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Zeus01

Tue Jan 01, 2002 2:59 am

More butting head eh? I just see it as a difference in opinion. NW might be in a great financial position compared to other US majors, but they certainly aren't out of the water. We're coming off the holidays which leads to the long doldrum season of Jan, Feb and won't really pick up until March or so. That means no money. Until NW can resume to pre 9/11 operations and make the cash they were making last year I think we'll see more "penny pinching" aka good business practice. You are right though, that at some time those 9s will need replacing. True, it does take somtime to get an order off the ground with research etc... but NW traditionally secures all financing for new a/c at the onset of the order. What kind of credit can an airline get with the current financial situation now? Kinda like going into a bank with $30,000 in debt making $10,000 a year wanting a great mortgage rate and a loan for a $500,000 house.

As for the 318, I doubt that will happen. This based on the engine proximity to the jetway, and the fact that the 9s are flown on short haul flights, and the 318 is really designed for longer thin routes to maximize efficiency. The 318 in theory would be the perfect fit, but it doesn't seem it really is. Who knows, maybe NW gave boeing a great incentive to keep their factory open producing the 717... but hasn't made that info public yet.

We can speculate until the cows come home, until then, there is no immediate plan to replace the 9s, as they are one of the big reasons NW is in a good position now.

AZJ
 
717fan
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:51 am

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Tue Jan 01, 2002 3:02 am

I think for NW fleet comonality is not as important as for smaller carriers, because they operate such a large fleet of every single type.
The future fleet of NW will consist of this (in my opinion):
B-717/757/744/A319/320/330
717fan
 
Guest

RE: Northwests Fleet Plan

Tue Jan 01, 2002 3:48 am

While the 9s are paid for, there are other costs to remember, such as fuel and maintenance. AirTran said that even after the additional costs to buy the 717, they were getting about 7-9% less CASM on the 717 than the DC9s(Airways).