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RayChuang
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Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 2:25 am

I think after the A380 is in the air, there is a likely chance that Airbus may finally tackle the replacement for the A300B/A310 planes.

My guess? Imagine the original A300B1 fuselage design, but with a totally new low-drag wing, full fly-by-wire controls, new interiors inspired by that on the A340-500/600 series, next-generation hi-bypass engines with advanced quiet engine nacelle designs, and have at least enough range to fly USA transcon flights.

I think a large number of airlines would definitely interested in such a plane--think of it as a Next Generation A300B. I'm sure AF, AZ, IB, LH and even possibly BA may express interest in such a plane.
 
lmml 14/32
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 2:29 am

Airbus already has a replacement for the A310/A300. They are the A330-200/300.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 2:29 am

That could be airbus's next aim. The A300/310 are 60's 70's technology, maybe a bit more updated later on, but they are still old technology compared to newer modern jets such as the A330/777 etc. They definitely need to replace them for the medium range-twin aisle market.

Regards
Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 2:35 am

The A330-200/300 are not replacements for the A300/310. The A300/310 are in a different family as airbus has described them.

There are 3 airbus families:

Single aisle short-haul aircraft:

A320 family
A320
A319
A318
A321

Medium range twin aisle:

A300-600
A310-200/300

And the twin aisle long-haul aircraft:

A330-200/300
A340-200/300
A340-500
A340-500

and ofcourse the A380.

The A300/310 need a replacement

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Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
DeanBNE
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 2:41 am

Perhaps the rumored A320-300.

After about 15 years perhaps the A320 could do with some aerodynamic mods ...

Cheers,
DeanBNE
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 2:43 am

I think after the 380, Airbus might work on the 300 and 310. Nothing major. Just maybe updating things.
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
gmonney
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 2:48 am

They need something that is like the 767....then Air Canada will be able to go all Airbus in its mainline fleet!!

The 310 is the perfect fit to the 767, I guess the 300 will be like the 763 and the 310 like the 762?

Grant
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racko
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 2:57 am

i'm sure they will make a replacement for the A300/310, but maybe it's too late _AFTER_ the A380. Maybe they will start working on it when the development of the A340-600 and the A318 is finished.
 
Alessandro
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 3:05 am

I guess that the Belugas need replacement, thats one of the projects together with the A380...
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gerardo
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 3:08 am

Apparently there isn't a market bit enough to justify a mid range twin aisle aircraft. Neither Boeing, nor Airbus have such products in the pipeline.

It could be - just an assumption - that the A332 offers good enough economics, while also offering bigger flexibility, than by havong two different aircraf types in the fleet.

As for a further stretched A320, I don't see it in the near future. An A322 would certainly need new wings.

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Gerardo
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Heavierthanair
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 5:01 am

G'day

Not new, but still true

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Peter
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Cleco
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 5:07 am

A300NG and A310NG???

Jake
EMBRY-RIDDLE BABY
 
lmml 14/32
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 7:32 am

I will still maintain that the A330 in both its versions is a replacement A300/A310. Of course they are not the same family. But neither are the B757 and the B727. Yet one replaced the other.
As for the original thread starter saying "imagine the original A300 fuselage" - Airbus have never changed the original fuselage. They are still using the same old circular fuselage on the A340 as they did on the A300. Even the cockpit windows are the same and the upward slope of the cabin flooring at the rear. It is good economics and makes perfect sense.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 8:23 am

LMML 14/32, I agree totally. The 300/310 has come to a dead end just like the 707 and 727. There will be no upgrades or direct replacements.

But Airbus has a lot of ongoing projects at different stages:
A318
A340-600
A400M (the military transport)

Anyway it is absolutely viable to try to guess about the next project(s) which may come long time before the A380 gets in the air.

If we look very closely on the 318, then it looks a lot more like a prototype "320NG family plane" than just a further shortened A319. Many changes are not very visible, but still quite important modifications. Just to mention a few:

Much of the cockpit hardware will be totally new, based on newer generations of electronics. The most visible thing will be flat screens instead of CRT tubes, but that's only the surface of the "refreshments".

Many major structures will be laser welded instead of riveted as has been the norm during the last 75 years. It will save weight, reduce maintenance and extend safe fatigue life.

As soon as such things have been tested until failure, and certified on the A318, then we should expect these things - and maybe slightly improved engine subtypes - incorporated on 319/320/321"NG" planes. That may happen even before the A380 will fly.

Airbus does have a wide performance gap between the 321 and the 330. A couple of years ago they looked at a short 330 (first named 330-100, later 330-500), but it was cancelled considered too heavy and expensive. But they need a direct 757/767 competitor.

I wouldn't rule out a "322" completely. The 320 wing won't make it. That's right. But with a revised version of the Indian Airlines 320 4-wheel boogey landing gear, and a wing center plug (and other engines) it might be feasible to extend the upper end 320 family performance considerably and produce a capacity and range wise head on 757 competitor. A whole new wing cannot be ruled out, but the 757 segment market isn't all that big. And then comes the "Airbus holy cow": Total 320 family crew rating commonality.

Wing center plugs have been used before to enlarge a successful plane. DC-9 to MD-80 and 340-300 to 340-600 are what first comes into my mind.

There will be plenty of work to do in Toulouse during the next few years.

Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Ciro
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 9:21 am

I guess Airbus will soon launch a replacement for the A300/310. It will probably be called "A330-100".

Cheers
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RayChuang
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 11:00 am

I think the primary reason why I said that something based upon the A300B1/B2 fuselage design is very likely Airbus' next project is simple: they won't need a lot expensive retooling to build such a plane.

It'll be smaller than the A330-200, but unlike the now-shelved A330-500 proposal it'll use a new, lighter and more aerodynamic wing design optimized for medium haul operations. I think you'll be surprised how many airlines want such a plane--it will maintain a fair level of commonality with the A300B/A330/A340 fleets, but the new A300 design will be designed for high-capacity routes that require a fairly large number of takeoff/landing cycles.

I mean let's face it folks: the current fleet of 767's and A300B's are starting to reach the point where C and D check overhauls are going to get quite expensive. AF would love to have a true A300B replacement operating on routes such as ORY-MAD, ORY-MUC, ORY-FCO, LH would love to use this new plane from FRA and MUC to LHR, ORY, MAD, BCN, FCO, and other European destinations, IB would love to have this new plane flying from MAD and BCN to the rest of Europe and the Canary Islands, EX would use this plane from DXB to somewhere less busy destinations in the Persian Gulf, etc. With the very likely possibility of many airports imposing slot restrictions as a noise-abatement measure, airlines are going to need larger planes designed for higher-cycle operations and a true A300B/A310 replacement could fill the bill easily.
 
travellin'man
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 12:17 pm

Ray Chuang-

Lest we forget, American loves their A300's, so you could include them on the list as well!
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
widebody
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 5:28 pm

The A318 and A340-600 are not considered as projects anymore......the only two current projects in Airbus at present are the A380 and the A400M....everything else has been suspended.......however, before Sept. 11, the next biggest project was the A330F.......the idea of an upgraded A300/A310 has been beaten to death by Airbus, and many papers were flying around with 'proposals'......this was about 2 years ago......nothing else has been heard since ......

Rgds,
WB.
 
Greg
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Thu Jan 03, 2002 10:50 pm

Airbus' next project will be to turn a profit. If they can't succeed at that, there will no other development...
 
Konstantinos
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 12:42 am

Why replace the A310 and A300 ?
A300B2 and B4 have already been replaced by the A300-600 and the long range version A300-600R.
Next aircraft must be the new SST.

A300C4-605R

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A300B4-102

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slawko
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 1:29 am

I heard they are working with rubber-made corp to develop a new line of aerodynamic lunch containers...lol...just a little joke...

Actually an A310/A300 upgrade would be a great next step....although I am not a fan of it, a common A32X cockpit and flight system would be an ideal upgrade for the 300/310's they would not even have to build a new airplane just upgrade what they have, and maybe use newer more efficient engines to increase the MTOW or the Range of the airplanes...If they could extend the 310/300's range to about the same as a 767ER or a bit less it would fit in perfectly with airlines like Air Canada who operate a large number of 767's aswell as a large airbus fleet. Although I think to increase the range of the 300/310 by that much they would need a new more efficient wing, as well as lager fuel tanks...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
katekebo
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RE: Airbus' Next Project?

Fri Jan 04, 2002 1:49 am

next Airbus project? a Sonic Cruiser to compete with Boeing.