lewis
Posts: 3564
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sat Jan 05, 2002 8:43 pm

Athens was hit by a snow blizzard after 10 years. Roads were closed and many flights cancelled. Was the new Athens airport ready for this??
The new and 'modern' airport faced a huge problem when the german management found out that the airport has no de-icing equipment. Many large jets had severe icing and the airport couln't do anything. As a solution, the fire department started spraying the aircraft with hot water (!) that caused the formation of more ice on the metal surfaces! Greek and foreign pilots were laughing at the situation that was so shameful for a new airport. Finally, the fire department filled the spray tanks with anti-ice fluid that still could not meet the demands.
I don't know what you all think but I believe that the situation was very shameful for a new airport in the 21st century.
 
schreiner
Posts: 909
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2001 7:50 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sat Jan 05, 2002 8:46 pm

What the f*ck has that to do with europe? Mistakes can happen.
Soaring the internet...
 
lewis
Posts: 3564
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sat Jan 05, 2002 8:50 pm

What the f*ck has that to do with europe?
What do you mean??? Athens is in Europe....

Mistakes can happen.
This is NOT a mistake. I felt really embarassed as a Greek while seeing this on the news. It is a bad reputation for a country that will host the Olympic Games in 2 years...

 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sat Jan 05, 2002 8:54 pm

Athens' first blizzard in ten years?
So obviously it's not a normal occurance there and as such, and rightfully so, it wasn't planned for!!

So I don't think it's shameful at all; just an "out of the ordinary" situation.
I mean, does Dubai or Riyadh plan for snow blizzards??

 
lewis
Posts: 3564
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sat Jan 05, 2002 8:58 pm

In Dubai and Riyadh the temperature is always hot and not humid. In Athens it can get enough cold for ice to form and a new international airport should always be prepared with at least the minimal equipment. It smows in Greece every winter, it is just downtown Athens that had a surprise.
 
schreiner
Posts: 909
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2001 7:50 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sat Jan 05, 2002 9:05 pm

Athenes is Greece... not Europe... Have u heard about such problems at Schiphol, of other great airports in Europe? So, it's NOT an European problem...
Soaring the internet...
 
lewis
Posts: 3564
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sat Jan 05, 2002 9:21 pm

Oh now I get it Schreiner. So Greece is not in Europe. Better take all my Euros back to the bank, there must have been some kind of a mistake.

BTW, don't forget that germans are running the airport and will be running it for many years to come, not greeks.
 
garuda
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 10:53 pm

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 1:44 am

Guys, calm down.... I'm sure there's a misunderstanding here......

Schreiner:
Please read the topic carefully. It's about "Shame for The Most Modern European Airport", not "Shame for the European Airports". Athens' new airport is indeed Europe's most modern (newest) airport.

Lewis:
Please don't take it too personal. I'm sure what Schreiner has said has nothing to do to insult Greeks, Germans or any other nationality.

 
Konstantinos
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 1:55 am

ONLY IN GREECE !!!

The airport was not ready to open, but they went ahead with it. Serves them right !
 
HB-IQF
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:41 pm

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 1:59 am

It is not important in which country an airport is, but they all should have a minimum equipment for winter/snow operation ! Here in Germany on many airports they still have problems every year with the first snow-days ! Like this year at ...(it is better to leave it open !) after serveral hours of snowfall and cold conditions, the airport-authorities couldn´t get it done to remove the snow from one of the two runways ! The hole Tamark was covered with nearly 30cm(!!!) of snow even the Taxiways !!! But thats not all, later in the afternoon they closed the airport until
10pm ! Why ? Deicing fluid for the runways and for the aircrafts was out of stock !!! Remember: "it never snows in Germany!!"
Just a small story.... Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
lewis
Posts: 3564
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 2:02 am

I am not insulted. I feel that there is so much ignorance; it seems that Schreiner believes that Greece is not good enough to be European. Either you want it or not we are European. I stated a problem of my home airport and you just had to critisize on wether Greece is a european country or not.
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 2:07 am

So obviously it's not a normal occurance there and as such, and rightfully so, it wasn't planned for!!

Good thing aircraft designers do not use this philosophy. Fortunately for travelers, we do plan for failures and abnormal events.

Cheers,
Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
HB-IQF
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:41 pm

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 2:10 am

@Lewis,

it is correct Greece is deffinitly European ! And it makes
no diffrent to Germany, France, Netherlands Great Britain or other countries ! We are all on the same continent ! Greece is just a little south of us but nothing more !!! Think about it Schreiner !!!
I was there1.5 years ago and believe me they are European and even more friendlier than some others called european !!!
Thats all.....
 
airblue
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:16 pm

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 2:14 am

Hey guys do you remember what happened the Christmas day of 2000 in Milan MXP??

5 cm of snow and for 36 hours there were the caos. 70% of flights cancelled and all the others with more than 3 hours of delay.

The reason: it was the Christmas day and the number of workers were reduced so there weren't enought people to keep clean the two runways and the parking area. Also two of the de-iceing machine were broken.
And the resturants ended the food.
A terrible christmas for thousands of travellers.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4459
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 2:18 am

Schreiner,

Very close to the worst comments I have read on this board. You obviously didn't read his header before you took off on a no sense tirade!
 
T-Bird
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:38 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 2:33 am

Funny
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smokin cool  Nuts  Nuts  Nuts  Nuts  Nuts  Nuts  Nuts  Nuts



 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 2:43 am

Well, I think the head-line is a bit misguiding, Athens is
not the "the most modern european airport", I would go
Schipol, Heathrow or some other major airport in Central Europe. But sure
Athens airport need improvement just like Atlanta does....
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
underminer
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:00 pm

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 4:23 am

It's about time for Hochtief to start apologizing for the new Athens International Airport. After the leaking ceiling, now another problem!!! And this time it was not OA's problem. Greek media just reported that from the 3 ground-handling companies (Olympic, Swissport and Goldair Handling) only Olypmic has one de-icing machine for aircrafts, despite the fact that each company should have one! (No Hochtief doesn't have to apologize for Swissport, but for the fact that the airport was not ready for this weather conditions=closed runways)
If AIA is the most modern european airport or no is something I don't know. But if someone thinks what it has costed until today, and what it costs each time someone flies to it, IT SHOULD BE THE MOST MODERN AIRPORT IN EUROPE  Angry
 
charliecossie
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 5:17 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 10:11 am

Allessandro:
Athens airport is brand spanking new. It is the most modern airport in Europe. Whether it actually works is open to speculation........
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 12:18 pm

Lewis,

When Atlanta was hit by only a few inches of snow a few days ago, it caused about 400 flights to be either canceled or delayed.

Not all airports are equiped with de-icing equipment.

Occasionally, a warm climate city will be hit by a slight snow storm. However, its not worth spending millions on de-icing equipment for such rare occurences. The same goes for Athens.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Guest

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 2:40 pm

Europeans are funny.
 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 5:37 pm

"Occasionally, a warm climate city will be hit by a slight snow storm. However, its not worth spending millions on de-icing equipment for such rare occurences. The same goes for Athens."

I agree; this was my point too.
Original post said first blizzard in TEN years!

Mike  Smile
 
lewis
Posts: 3564
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 6:24 pm

It's not only that. I just heard that the de-icing fluid has finished and most flights are cancelled. There is a chaos in the airport and the passengers of Air 2000 flight to London were kept on the aircraft for 6 hours with no water. No one from Hochtief helps for the situation and a relative of a passenger of Air 2000 accused the airline of abducton of his son because they wouldn't let him off the aircraft.
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 7:24 pm

On a sidenote to HB-IQF:
you didn't reveal the name of the german airport you were talking about, but you gave an important clue  Smile/happy/getting dizzy.

And BTW, in Swiss news I only heard of one german airport, where that happened.

But that was only a sidenote. Where there are people, there will be errors made. Athen was blocked by the snow. So what? happens all the time in other airports, and much worser things happen as well. I wouldn't exagerate only because of the snow at ATH.

Gerardo

dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Guest

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Sun Jan 06, 2002 9:53 pm

The same could have really happened anywhere....all in all, inconvenient for many travellers, embarrassing to some Greeks-but mostly quite funny!

Lewis, I can understand your disappointment, but look at what happened during the first few days of Hong Kong's new airport, Chek Lap Kok opening.....computer systems failed, and the whole place was utter chaos....

When I arrived at Heathrow Terminal 3 a few days ago, from a longhaul flight, all pax on the Virgin flight had to carry their luggage out of the airport by hand.....not a single trolley was available for us.....and we were the last flight of the day! How hard is it to provide trolleys for pax at arrivals?

It's not just Athens, beleive me!

Regards
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Mon Jan 07, 2002 12:39 am

Dear BA!
Yes, I think its worth to spend a lot of money into safety (in other words de-icing). Imagine the revenue
loss when a major airport is closed, call it insurance.
Heard that both Crete and Canary Islands had snow,
so the ones who are best prepared usually wins!
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Mon Jan 07, 2002 3:29 am

Alessandro,

Go to every major warm-climate airport. You will find that NONE of them are prepared for a snow storm.

You know why? Because these type of snow-storm occurences happen only every 10 years!!

Stop complaining about your precious Athens airport. Every other warm-climate airport doesn't have advanced de-icing equipment.

Tell me, what makes Athens any different from Atlanta, Cairo, or Miami?

So stop whining about a warm-climate airport not being prepared for snow storm occurences that happen every 10 years!
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
lewis
Posts: 3564
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Mon Jan 07, 2002 7:43 am

It is not only that. I visited the airport today because a relative was supposed to leave for LHR. The road outside the airport was full of snow and ice and nothing was done for it. It was totally humiliating. I have visited many airports with snow and the road outside the terminal was always perfectly cleaned.

About the de-icing: There was in fact 1 de-icing truck. Out of the 3 handling companies (Olympic handling, Swissport and Goldair handling) only Olympic owned one. I agree that it is not a frequent phenomenon but a brand new airport should at least have 3-4 such tracks in order to be prepared for anything. I think that icing can be caused not only by snow but from rain and low temperatures too. So such equipment should be availlable at all times. I don't think that advanced de-icing equipment that are found in airports of northern USA are needed. Just a few trucks could have solved the problem for all the thousands of passengers.

About the airport: The airport opened almost 10 months ago and all the problems of the opening were efficiently solved during the first weeks. This has nothing to do with the opening (i.e. Hong Kong, Seoul etc). But there are problems all the time like leaking ceilings through the air conditioning, now the ice problem. Nobody knows what will be next.
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Mon Jan 07, 2002 7:50 am

Lewis,

Denver (DEN) had LOTS of problems when it first opened. Such as the baggage claim system failing, the train that connects the concourses and terminal breaking down, etc.

All modern airports when they first open have lots of problems. DEN has problems for over a year!

Regarding De-Icing, almost all major airports whether in a warm or cold climate have to have some sort of de-icing equipment. Even when there is a bit of frost building up on the aircraft (which happens in all places) they need de-icing equipment.

However, when a few inches of snow start falling, that is a completely different story.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
ovelix
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 1999 12:50 am

RE: Shame For The Most Modern European Airport

Wed Jan 09, 2002 9:26 pm

The last time Athens had such snowfall was in 1963 and before that was 1941.

So, if ATH closes every 40 years due to bad weather where is the problem? Is there any problem at all?? Every 40 years???

Lewis I remember you talking about LGAV days before the opening saying that "there will be a chaos! Believe me!!" In fact, the only chaos was at some TV stations which act and speak exactly like the worst tabloids.

Please don't spread misery. Weather sometimes can be so dangerous and unpredictable that no plane can fly, no airport can remain open. If the pilot says he doesn't fly for safety reasons then you can be as shameful as you like.

As for the father you comment (I saw him shouting on TV) he has no point at all. It is known that the airlines load people in the planes just to press the controllers to give take-off clearance. It could happen anywhere. It's not the airport to blame.

The greek TV channels were talking about the snow as if the snowflakes were Martians. Shouting and yelling "Where is the State to clean the taxiways???" Yeah, right, and where is the minister to fly the plane??

Lewis, we have talked about AIA before. You keep feel shame about the airport. Please stop. And stop wathcing ALPHA TV too. You will do a major favor to yourself

FYI: The plane de-icing is the airline's job (through the handling companies) not the airport's. The taxiway and runway de-icing is airport's authority job but with such snowfall it's more than difficult to keep it open.


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