administrator
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Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 5:14 pm

Dear Members,

There's been a lot of rumors in here lately about Charles J. Bishop, the teen who flew his Cessna into a skyscraper in Tampa Florida, having been a user in this discussion forum. To put an end to the speculations I would like to confirm that he most probably did not only have one username, but several. The detective who handles this case for the Tampa Police has been in contact with me and all information I have about Charles J. Bishop has been sent to him. I fear however that there's a lot missing and if you have any additional information, please do not hesitate to contact me and I will forward the info to the detective in Tampa.

Here's what we know:

Some guy signed one of his emails to me (4 Oct 2001 - wanting to sign up for forum moderator) with "Charles J. Bishop".

Searching the discussion forum for the email address he used, I find two users, Tropical Flyer and Jetway. Both use a rather distinct password. When searching for other users with that password, I find several other usernames: sexypilot, USAir737, B757-223 and ERJpilot. The profiles of the users does show that he's been playing someone he's not ("I finally have my CPL!", "US Airways 737 First Officer" etc) but most show his name as Charles Bishop and one profile says he's from Florida.

The IP addresses used points to *.Tampa1.Level3.net, in other words, an Internet service provider in Tampa, Florida.

I assume therefore that the probability that we're dealing with "The" Charles J. Bishop is rather high.

A "Charles Bishop" using another email address (which is not used in any of the usernames in the forum) also sent in an article for our article section called "How People Bring Travel Problems On Themselves and How to Improve." (that was never published). The fact that the email was sent from the host *.tampa1.level3.net makes it very probable that this is also the same "Charles J. Bishop". When searching deleted posts for this email address, three new usernames come up (these three have been deleted at some stage for some reason): FlyerC_B757, AAL777-223 and Jet Joc. Finally, when searching for users with real name "Charles Bishop", the username -20XX pilot also shows up. The IP address used when posting messages under that username points to *.Tampa1.Level3.net making it very probable that this too is Charles J. Bishop.

The total number of usernames used by Charles Bishop: 10 (!). And I'm rather sure there's more of them that I have not been able to find. I've got a blurry memory of a user in the forum named Charles Bishop or something along those lines that caused some problems and were therefore removed. As the user is removed however, I have no additional info on that. Maybe you guys have additional information?

If you think you know something that could be of value to the investigation, please let me know. This is a very tragic even considering the young age of the victim and the fact that he seems to have been a frequent visitor of Airliners.net. I can't help thinking if things would have been different if his application for forum moderator or article were accepted, possibly giving him something to cling on to. No one will be able to convince me that this 15 year old were somehow connected to Bin Laden and the al-Qaida organization. That note he left were surly a note of desperation, a sort of revenge on the word and seemingly treated him so badly. A very troubled boy indeed.

With Regards,
Johan Lundgren
Editor Airliners.net
johan@airliners.net
Working on the site from morning 'till night that's livin' alright (1997-2007)
 
rlwynn
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 5:18 pm

Sad, it is amazing how someone can get from from reality without people around him doing anything.
I can drive faster than you
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 5:29 pm

It is a sad story.

Would it be thoughtful if the article that he did write was posted in some way? Either in the forums or in the Articles section of airliners.net?

Just a suggestion. I dunno how it'll go down though..

Singapore_Air
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
2912n
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 5:35 pm

Thus the tragedy of mental illness. The only one responsible for this young man's death and actions is himself. Short of physically taking him and putting him into an institution where he could not hurt himself or others there is nothing anyone, and certainly not anyone here on Airliners.net, could have done to help him.
 
mls515
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 5:59 pm



With all respect but tell that US-Mr. Detective very clear that he was a victim of the foolish US Government policy and propaganda. What a stupid country.

Oh please, a detective on a local police force could care less about US foreign policy. This kid was just a nut with some problems. Shame on you for using him to prop up your opinions about the US. I tend to agree with Johan that the mention of Bin Laden in his suicide note was a "sort of revenge on the word". The only other possibility is the kid holding some strong fundamentalist beliefs about the immorality of the US and/or its actions.



Would it be thoughtful if the article that he did write was posted in some way? Either in the forums or in the Articles section of airliners.net?

If the article were to be published, it should be only because it's of exceptional quality, not to meet anyone's morbid curiousity. The Unibomber's manifesto didn't get published so easily.


mls515
 
fly_emirates
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 6:00 pm

well said norbert.

now if any thing happend in aviation, it does not mean that its related to bin ladin.. thank you!!!

things happens all time. whether bin ladin existed or not. true that the 911 is related to him, but, not every thing else is!!!!
 
MEA-707
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 6:09 pm

" I can't help thinking if things would have been different if his application for forum moderator or article were accepted, possibly giving him something to cling on to. "

dear Johan,
I also recently was left in doubt about a suicide case in my acquaintance-circle and I recognize your thoughts. Could we have done more? Been nicer? Gave more attention?
But in the end I don't think it would have helped. He apperently didn't have the moral authority to act as a moderator, for instance, and only giving him that role out of pityness wouldn't help his self esteem and give others a hard time instead.
Airliners.net only was a small part of his surroundings, not nearly a reason for his frustration.
But imagine the pain and frustration of the people who really knew him...
Servaas
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
User avatar
Fly-K
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 6:12 pm

What was the username of the guy who asked this summer (BEFORE 9-11) if the WTC could sustain a plane impact? This was discussed after 9-11, maybe someone remembers.

Konstantin
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
sudden
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 6:13 pm

It looks like you are blaming yourself for not making him a moderator, Johan!?
If that's the case, don't!!!!

I want to think that this boy really were screaming for attention. He was lonely, and didn't have very much friends. This was his way of getting attention.
I don't defend his action in any way, so don't get me wrong here.
Is the detective looking at "our" site? I think he chould.

Who was the guy that posted something about flying in to the WTC for about a year ago? That topic really blowed up after 9/11.
Anyone remember what topic I meen?
Could that have been the same user, Johan?
Just a tought.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
sudden
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 6:16 pm

To not cause any missunderstandings.
I ment the same guy as Fly-K!!
When in doubt, flat out!
 
ryu2
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 6:35 pm

Hmmm... has there been ANY user who got a moderator job yet? Last I checked, there were no new moderators here...
 
gerardo
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 7:12 pm

Do you mean that Topic?
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/336291/

This one was started by a User called "MD-90".

Out of his profile:
Real Name: Never again...
E-mail: crybick@yahoo.com
Gender: Male
Age: 16-20
Country: United States
Location: The Bible Belt

Regards
Gerardo


dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
milesrich
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 7:33 pm

Why does this not surprise me? Was Mohammed Atta a member of this forum too?
 
ewr757
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 7:43 pm



This brings up an interesting point. You really don't know who is lurking behind these handles.

With that in mind, I never devulge answers about any security issues and procedures. Nor will I talk about aircraft specific items I feel are asked that can be used as a threat to an airline or aircraft.

 
schreiner
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 7:45 pm

This really opens your eyes. Johan, don't blame yourself... it was just an other moron... a very dangerous one.
Cheers,
Schreiner
Soaring the internet...
 
sudden
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 7:46 pm

Gerardo posted the topic I was thinking about. MD90 was the user.
He came forward after the 9/11 when the topic were discussed and said that he had nothing to do with it.
That he was just speculated. If my memory serves me correct, Johan were in that discussion to.
Can that also have been Charles J Bishops?
When in doubt, flat out!
 
bluewhite
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 7:51 pm

Well, there's probably no need to be paranoid!
There's probably just as many "strange" people lurking behind the friendly faces at work or on the street!

A very sad and strange incident, in the case of Bishop.

BW
 
sudden
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 7:58 pm

Paranoid has nothing to do with it!
Johan asked if we had any info.
And that topic came to my mind.
But it can be as you wrote, just another "strange" human.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
Guest

RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 7:59 pm

2912n and Ceilidh.... Sure, he maybe was an asshole, and yes he´s dead.

But he was still a human...

But maybe people like you are to greedy and spiritually profanic to understand...?
 
Captain.MD-11
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 8:05 pm

Reading that linked post by 'MD-90' turns my stomach in a big way! It was just simply too close to the truth! He could have said a Jumbo or any other airliner but he specifically mentioned the 767 series. It is tragic however for someone to take ones life at such a young age, but there are NO excuses for the way he did it!
Twins,twins, everywhere.... but where are the three holers?
 
Guest

RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 8:11 pm

Lautir - that was uncalled for. My point is that rather than being reactive to something that has already happened - when it's impossible to do anything about it - we should be proactive and try to ensure that something similar doesn't happen again.
 
bluewhite
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 8:13 pm

I also found the WTC post quite chilling. It seems that MD90 hasn't been posting for awhile, so maybe under another "handle" hmm......

BW
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 8:28 pm

ERJpilot´s answer to the question "What Do You Want To Do In Life?":

"I want to become incredibly wealthy, retire to some Caribbean island and sip Margarita's all day. Ahhh, isn't that the life?"

Rather tragic, isn´t it?

Daniel
 
Guest

RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 8:55 pm

Ceilidh - thanks for the answer, and I´m also terrible sorry that I didn´t spot your smiley. When I included it in your post, it came out in a other way...
I´m pretty new on the thing called internet, and maybe more confused about the "social habitus" of the IT-world (for example: the use of smilies, word abbreviations etc.)

I´m maybe to emotional to be discussing this kind of subjects.

Regards Lautir
 
dee-see-eit
Posts: 293
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 9:06 pm

A.net has become so popular, that there's nothing specially strange about that guy called Bishop participating in this forum. The only ones who might be really interested in his posts might be the police or his family, in order to get more clues to what he did.

We can not start thinking that everyone of us may be a potential terrorist, or other insane person capable of such tremendous actions.

Regards
DC8

 
VC-10
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 9:14 pm

It makes you think - I was only "talking" to ERJpilot a couple of weeks ago re taxi speeds.
 
Airbus Lover
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 9:14 pm

I wouldnt be surprised if there were a few individuals among the >10000 users in a.net used same password and have the exact same name and even from Tampa you can find more than 2 Bishop dont you think? Not to be biased just my thoughts.
 
skihigh2002
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 9:21 pm

How come ERJpilot has no posts on these forums. Was he the guy who said he flew ERJ's for Continental Express out of IAH?

Chris
 
carmy
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 9:24 pm

Anyway, it's quite a sad affair, and my heart really goes out to the boy's family. Hopefully we'll all learn something around here and offer each another emotional support, albeit over the internet, when any member is in need.
 
Guest

RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 9:27 pm

Carmy!

I agree with you.

Regards Lautir
 
PerthGloryFan
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 9:53 pm

In my view there's two issues here:

Firstly, remember that the technology, whether it's a plane, a computer, a gun, a car, etc, is neutral. It's up to us and our community to foster responsible applications of that technology through appropriate education, training and licensing.
In my job as a college electronic and computer systems engineering lecturer this is always on my mind. The students passing through my classes, and those of my colleagues, are exposed to and trained in the use of some fairly powerful technology. However, despite our best efforts, in 15+ years and a few thousand students, there have about 10 or so that I know of that have applied what we have taught them to criminal activities; phone phreaking, internet account hacking, software piracy, etc, in each case they've been been fined and imprisoned. And in each case we all wonder what we, as the educators and trainers, did wrong? But then we think of the many hundreds of former students that are applying their craft honestly and responsibly; installing and maintaining medical systems in hospitals, in telecommunications, in aviation, in manufacturing and processing, in surface transport control systems, and so on. As responsible citizens they are making our world a better place to live in.

The second issue is this virtual world that you are inhabiting when you are reading this post. Most of us to varying degrees can mostly accept what we are. Ok we all have regrets from time to time, you know "if only ... ", and may not be always totally happy with ourselves and or our situation, but we get over it to a fair degree. We make the best of what we have, make the effort to achieve new goals if we want to change ourselves, and are generally reasonably honest on forums such as this. Unfortunately, there are a few who can't distinguish between this virtual electronic world and so any fantasies developed here, instead of remaining an imaginative game, spill over into the real "real" world where real people can get hurt. I would say that the sociological jury will be out a long time on this issue.

There is nothing no one on this forum could have done to directly prevent this particular tragic event but in the future please all look after yourselves and your friends - go for a long walk in the real world, kick a football in the park, shoot some hoops, smile at people, and generally get a life I guess.

Take care and no guilt trips ok  Smile

PGF
 
VC-10
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 10:00 pm

Skihigh2002

Try this link

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/684851/6/

I assume Johan was talking about ERJPLT
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: VC-10

Tue Jan 08, 2002 10:42 pm

No, the one in question is (or was, I should say) "ERJpilot" while the one you "talked" to is (IS!) "ERJPLT".
Daniel
 
VC-10
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 10:54 pm

I stand corrected
 
HB-IQF
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Tue Jan 08, 2002 11:28 pm

Hi,
I just read the topic wich Gerado put a link ! I read that and really
get afraid what was dicussed here a year ago ! I am new here in this forum and before I enjoyed the discussions here very much ! But now a lot changed for me ! Due to my job at an airline, I´m now thinking twice about what I discuss here ! Because we all dont know with whom we are talking !
And the most scary part of the linked topic is the last post !!!
But now let us look forward to talk about "normal" interrests.

-Marco
 
Pilot1113
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The WTC Post

Wed Jan 09, 2002 12:04 am

>>I also found the WTC post quite chilling. It seems that MD90 hasn't been posting for awhile, so maybe under another "handle" hmm......


I believe that the person in question, MD90, has been throughly interviewed by the FBI. MD90 was found to be exactly who he states himself as, a 16 year-old in Illinois.

The FBI saw no reason to pursue him as a suspect and cleared him. This was in the immediate aftermath of September 11.

I think this is a dead issue, pardon the pun.

At any rate, I have nothing new to offer in the Charles Bishop case.

- Neil Harrison
 
heavymetal
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 12:12 am

The merits of the perils of the Internet, the horror of mental illness and loneliness and current US Middle East policy are best left for other threads.

What is admirable is the website administrator's efforts to not only cooperate with the investigation of this sad incident but to be forthright about the circumstances, lest Net-fed rumour and imagination take hold. Well done.
 
ERJPLT
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 12:52 am

"It makes you think - I was only "talking" to ERJpilot a couple of weeks ago re taxi speeds"

NO,NO,NO.........Dont you confuse me with this scumbag that flew into the Tampa building. I am still here and I am actually somewhat sane. My handle is ERJPLT.....I know, I miss you guys too but I have been really busy lately so I will be back soon to stir up the pot.

Please dont mistake me for ERJpilot.........


 
Guest

RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 1:47 am

so, does anyone remember talking to this Bishop and any one of his handles, Tropical Flyer, Jetway, sexypilot, USAir737, B757-223, ERJpilot, FlyerC_B757, AAL777-223, Jet Joc, -20XX?

Tropical Flyer sounds familiar, but I may be confusing that with a user who went by the name, Tropical Skies (or something like that)?

In his above screename, he has two names associated with planes of the "-23" American Airliens Boeing Line:AAL777-223 and B757-223 and he has two names where he placed a "B" before the plane type: B757-223 and FlyerC_B757.

Not to mention two usernames that seem quite vain: sexypilot and Jet Joc.

Interesting. Very likely, recognizing the patterns they all seem to be the same person, one now notorious, Charles J. Bishop of Tampa, Florida.

As for the OBL link, while I think everyone agrees this young man certainly had no ties to al Qaida, don't dismiss as simply an attention-getting device his suicide note. His father has an Arabic last name (Bishara) and he was known around school to say he was part Arab and to warn people not to make assumptions who was and wasn't an Arab.

TNNH
 
Alaskaairlines
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 1:54 am

Thats very sad indeed.

-Dmitry
 
planespotterx
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Oh My God, No Way!

Wed Jan 09, 2002 1:58 am

wow, thats a real shock, to think someone who ive preobobally talked to did something like this, wow im stunned, i mean he must have been really screwed up somewhere (putting it lightly) im a brit, but i can understand how u americans feel, but im 17, and id never do a thing like that, no matter how low i would b feeling, just goes to show the enemy is within.

may god bless his soul.
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
LGW
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 2:01 am

Unbelievable

LGW
 
EGGD
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 2:06 am

Jeez, that is frightenening, i actually replied to one of his posts, and also he wrote this:

Topic: RE: Really Simple Pleasures...

1. Having a woman that I love and who loves me back.

2. Flying a really great flight.

3. Having success in my fingertips.


and under the username B757-223...

This is a part II to my What You Look Like thread. What's your name? Mine is Charles.

Regards,
B757-223
, this is definetely him, because he mentioned about beaches in Florida too. Did the news ever say what he looked like? Because here is a description..

If you have a pic.,post it. I'm 6'1; 200 pounds; I have brown hair and blue eyes.

and the scariest post of all (that i have found so far) is this:

VirginLover, I hope you and your family are ok! Sorry about the accident. To answer the question, I do believe that things happen for a reason.

My regards,
B757-223
 Wow!
 
sudden
Posts: 3934
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:20 pm

RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 2:06 am

Johan......

Have this topic been to any help so far?
When in doubt, flat out!
 
Jean Leloup
Posts: 1953
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 10:46 am

RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 2:12 am

PLease Everyone, don't drag up the MD-90 fiasco again. that was very clearly solved! We caused that poor guy enough trouble before, prudently calling the FBI and all that, let's not ignorantly bring it up again.
Next flight.... who knows.
 
ILS
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 2:43 am

I can also remember someone named 777-200ER or something like that, that was mentioned as being Charles. I am not sure if this is him, but he posed as a student from Changi. I can remember I helped him out on some post, maybe in the Photo Requests Forum, and he added me to his respected users. I was excited, but one day, in the Non Aviation Forum, he posted the topic, I am leaving. This was maybe one or two days after September 11th. I was upset because I lost one of my respected users. The only words in the topic were "Bye!" Very sad story indeed.
 
Alessandro
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RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 2:46 am

He emailed CK on airdisaster offering himself as a moderator, but was turn down there as well....
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
milemaster
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:19 am

RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 3:12 am

Let's not forget this guy killed himself in a way that essentially gave tribute to the WTC attack.

He may have been troubled, sad & lonely.. But sick doesn't even scrape the surface.

At least he didn't pull another Columbine massacre.. he clearly was equally screwed up as those idiots who killed all those innocent students.

I'm sorry, but I have zero patience for anyone who kills or attempts to kill other people because they are unhappy with the cards life dealt them.

I refuse to feel sorry for or say "poor fella" when he obviously planned on taking out a few strangers with him.

I only feel sorry for his parents, the owners of the building he hit, and the lessors of that Cessna.
 
GRZ-AIR
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 3:02 am

RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 3:27 am


This is really kind of scary..

Something was definetaley wrong with the stupid kid. And how the heck was he able to take of w/ the plane without anybody noticing ? I think that the serious thing such as taking flying lessons etc. is just made possible too easy for many people. Imagine if you have any other sick guy who gets untill his ATPL and rents a big plane etc. and then does some suicide stuff with it...
just a thought..

regards ,

GRZ-AIR
When I joined A.net it was still free, haha ;).
 
GOT
Posts: 1843
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 6:44 am

RE: Cessna Skyscraper Crash - Pilot Was Member

Wed Jan 09, 2002 3:46 am

GRZ-AIR:
He was noticed when he took off. Therefore a helicopter was sent up and followed him. They made signs to make him land and flew after him all the way to the Skyscrape, so he was noticed.

It's a terrible thing that has happend. I feel sorry for the guy and his family. Perhaps he was lonely and depressed, but that doesn't justify what he did.

GOT
Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!