Scand_Flyer
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Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Sun Jan 13, 2002 11:02 pm

This is a quick translation of an article in the Norwegian web based newspaper Nettavisen:
=======================================
The swiss airline Crossair is in negotiations with Lufthansa concerning an alliance.

This was confirmed by the company on Sunday. Crossair will expand its operations by taking over some of the assets of bankrupt Swissair, and the company needs to find an alliance partner by the end of March.

Lufthansa would through an alliance with Crossair be able to use Zurich airport as a hub for flights to Africa and Asia.

====================================


So, what do you think? Does this mean that Crossair will join Star?
 
RJ100
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Sun Jan 13, 2002 11:06 pm

Hello

I read the same in a Swiss newspaper today but I think it won't happen. Crossair, Lufthansa and Austrian Airlines would be the only operators on Switzerland-Germany vv. Switzerland-Austria vv. and Germany-Austria vv.!

But we never know what happens here!

RJ100
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GOT
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Sun Jan 13, 2002 11:14 pm

I doubt that Crossair will join Star, atleast not in the near future. Star is already overrepresented in Europe with SK, LH, BD, OS, NG, VO and in some time perhaps also Spanair.
But this doesn't mean that they can't form an alliance, LH alradey cooperate with several airlines outside Star.

GOT
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Flying-Tiger
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Sun Jan 13, 2002 11:50 pm

I think it could happen. Even now the "new" Swissair (LX) will be over-sized, especially the MD-11s are too big. Zurich is not a very big market, it heavily depends on feeder traffic. What LH (?) now proposes would basically be a downgrading of Zurich to a regional hub with a number of important long-haul flights whilest MUC would get additional long-hauls. More cost-effective IMO.

Interesting that this statement comes when there are rumours folating around about a possible fleet swap between LH and LX. Latter is rumoured to be interested in 10 A340-300 from LH, former wants to get rid of some due to some over-capacity. Maybe swapping 10 A343 for a couple of MD-11s for LH Cargo and the surplus A330-200 to replace LH A340-200 on the medium-range runs?

Regards
Flying-Tiger
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Andie007
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:01 am

Sure. Crossair could join Star. German television text says that most of the north american traffic will be in cooperation with United.

BUT!!!!

A codeshare agreement between Crossair and Lufthansa needs an approval of the EU-commission and the "Bundeskartellbehoerde" (department that controls cartels).
Lufthansa & Crossair would have a monopoly on Swiss-German traffic.
Moreover, the "Bundeskartellbehoerde" does not like the Austian-Lufthansa codeshare agreement, too.
 
avion
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:02 am

I am sure it could happen too. But the article states that LH would make ZRH the Asia and Africa hub. Which doesnt mean a downgrading the way i read it.

Tom
 
Andie007
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:13 am

Why should Lufthansa move their Aisa and Africa flights to Europe? Every passenger from a crossair destination can connect at Frankfurt or Munich.
They don not plan to open a third hub?!  Confused
That makes no sense.

Moreover, does Lufthansa has traffic rights to fly Swiss-Asia or Swiss-Africa????
 
avion
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:18 am

The way i read it is that Lufthansa will partially route their pax onto LX flights.

Tom
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:18 am


Isn´t there or wasn´t there in the not too sistant past a code share agreement LH/LX on MUC-BSL/MLH flights?

Anyway, I doubt Swissair II could be in an allaince with LH, for the reason already stated: an alliance LH-OS Group-SR would basically eliminate competition in all of German speaking Europe.
However, LH and SR have been traditionally on good terms regardimng leasing planes to and fro, so I could imagine LHCargo taking up some of SR´s MD11 and/or LH assuming SR´s delivery positions for the 340-600s.

Daniel Smile
 
Andreas
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:45 am

Heard it on the radio,too. What I found most intriguing is the fact, that Crossair did negotiate with BA about a cooperation, but stopped these, as no results seemd to be achievable. Does anyone know some facts about that?
Regards
Andreas
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RJ100
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Airsicknessbag

Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:49 am

At the moment there is no codeshare agreement LH/LX. Lufthansa is one of the biggest competitors for Crossair at BSL/MLH, currently operating 4 times a day fo FRA, 3x MUC (planning a fourth flight; LX flies BSL-MUC also 4x/day). LH is also planning 2x daily BSL-DUS and 2x daily BSL-TGL.

Regards,
RJ100
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RJ100
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:51 am

I think BA had just no interest to cooperate with the new LX.

RJ100
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Andie007
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RE: RJ100

Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:55 am

RJ100

Any source for the BSL-DUS rotation?
 
RJ100
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Andie007

Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:59 am

Hello Andie007

Yes, check www.jetstream.ch (Swiss aviation magazine).
Also Mr. Sieber (BSL airport boss) said in an interview that new flights to DUS and TGL are possible.

I think LH makes good money at BSL. The pharma industry here uses LH all the time for longhaul flights instead of SR.

Regards,
RJ100
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Andreas
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RE: RJ100

Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:59 am

Then why would BA start negotiations in the first place? Seems not quite plausible to me!
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manni
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RE: RJ100

Mon Jan 14, 2002 1:00 am

Why would any airline want to be involved with Crossair? My guess is that it is just "wishful thinking" of the Swiss.
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Scand_Flyer
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Mon Jan 14, 2002 1:03 am

Manni: Why would NOT any other airline want to be involved with Crossair? Both Crossair and Swissar are great airlines with good reputations.

However, I too find it hard to see the new Swiss airline be a part of Star Alliance. Europe is already well covered.
 
RJ100
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Manni

Mon Jan 14, 2002 1:08 am

Of course it is wishful thinking!
To operate 26 longhaul planes out of Switzerland is very hard. Unfortunately the new Crossair board was elected by Mr. Rainer E. Gut who was sitting in the old SR board and he was also responsible that SR had such a stupid strategy. Unfortunately they will maybe also destroy LX, which is a great (and rational thinking) airline.
But then, what choices do I have as a Swiss? The only choice is to support the new airline.

Regards,
RJ100
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manni
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Mon Jan 14, 2002 1:15 am

When I think of the first days of october last year. Many passengers holding valid and payed tickets on Swissair were told to buy another ticket as their ticket was of no value. No other airlines wanted to accept their tickets, LH included. SR screwed up with a few more airlines in Europe Sabena, TAP, AOM, Air Liberté to name a few. Since Crosssair is nothing more than the "old" Swissair, Crossair to looks like a very unreliable partner. Swissair fans perhaps not, but the general public has not forgotten these things. I find it difficult to believe that an airline like LH wants to be associated with SR. LH might just wait until LX bleeds to death instead and then take over the Swiss market.
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manni
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Re: RJ100

Mon Jan 14, 2002 1:34 am

You are right! If I would be Swiss I would do the same, just like I would support any new initiative in Belgium, being Belgian.
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gerardo
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:38 am

I doubt, that Swissair has such a bad reputation, as you think, Manni. Add to that, that Crossair isn't just the old Swissair. Crossair was and is another airline, which will be the basis for a new Swiss airline with an intercontinental network. For that purpose, Crossair will add some parts of Swissair.

Gerardo
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rey777
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RE: Crossair In Alliance With Lufthansa?

Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:10 am

Of course, LX is not the old SR... I agree with you Gerardo. Crossair has a different spirit, a different story, some different people... Crossair is not Swissair. Think about that everyone !

Rey 777