Elchanan
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Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:46 am

Deutsche Lufthansa was the result of a merger of Deutsche Aero Lloyd and Junkers Luftverkehr in 1926. Was it a private company or state-owned?
Has Air France been state-owned since 1933?
Were ANY of the European national carriers privately or partially privately owned from the beginning? Anyone?
Elchanan
 
avion
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RE: Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:49 am

Swissair was privately owned
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:51 am


RE: Luft Hansa

Both Aero Lloyd and Junkers were private owned. However, they, together with lots of other competitors, entered into a ruinous competition in the early 20s, largely financed by state subsidies. The merger was forced upon them by the government in order to stop that burning of taxpayer money.

Daniel Smile
 
carduelis
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RE: Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:14 am

British Airways can trace it's origins to a private company which was the first ever to carry a fare paying passenger on any international flight.

The company name was Aircraft Transport and Travel, or better known as AT&T. The first flight was on 15 July 1919. The passenger was Colonel W N Pilikington of the UK St Helens glass company. The pilot was Captain Gerry Shaw, chief pilot of AT&T, flying a DH9. The journey was from Hendon (NW London) to Paris (Le Bourget). STD 0700 ATD 0730 ATA 1015 (2.75 hours).
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
BBADXB
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RE: Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:17 am

...& I thought that KLM Royal Dutch is the oldest airline still flying today!
 
Elchanan
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RE: Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:29 am

KLM is the oldest airline still flying, but not if you trace the origins of other existing airlines. An example is SAS which was founded as late as 1946. It was however a result of a merger between DNL of Norway, ABA and SLA of Sweden and DDL of Denmark. DDL was founded in 1918... It's still not SAS.

Anyway - when DID the private flag carriers become state-owned - if ever? Swissair? Imperial Airways or BOAC? Lufthansa? +++
And what does it mean that Aer Lingus was initiated as a private company by the Irish state in 1936?
I'm looking for a pattern in European airline ownership. BA and Air France are examples of airlines privatised in the 1990s....when did they become state-owned however???
 
BBADXB
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RE: Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:37 am

AFAIK, Air Malta too was initiated by the State in 1974 and to some extent it was set up as a private company, in that it is run independently and has never received subsidies. Of course, it is one of the smallest carriers in Europe, but for such a small country, it is some kind of achievement... I think so at least when I take a glance at the route network of KM/AMC.

rgds,
BBADXB  Wink/being sarcastic
 
BBADXB
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RE: Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:46 am


Air Malta remains largely state owned, although there were strong rumours of privatisation in the recent past. Personally, I'd love to see KM joining oneworld, though it is quite unlikely... I mean who cares about such a small (insignificant?) airline?

AMC also has a 49% stake in Azzura (based in Bergamo), which is some sort of franchise of Alitalia (which owns the remaing 51%).
 
carduelis
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RE: Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:54 am

At one time in 1921, British airlines temporarily closed their services, as British aerodrome facilities paid for by the British taxpayer, were being used solely by foreign airlines, themselves being subsidised again by their own governments!
Imperial Airways was formed on 1 April 1924 out of Handley Page Transport, The Instone Airline, Daimler Airway (from AT&T), and British Marine Air Navigation.
It was a nationalised company set up as the individual companies could not financilly compete with the new state heavily susidised airlines of France, Holland and Belgium.
In 1936, the original British Airways was formed by the government operating a different route structure to Imperial. Both of them were merged into BOAC in 1939, and formal operations in that name started on 1 April 1940.
BOAC operated passenger services throughout WW2 to Africa, the Middle and Far East, on to Australia, flying via neutral Lisbon, together with many support flights for the Royal Air Force, including the extremely dangerous flights on the 'ball-bearing runs' to Sweden, assisted by unarmed Mosquito fighter-bombers as part of the BOAC strength. In wartime 1941, regular tranatlantic services were started by BOAC using three Boeing 314 flying boats. At the end of the war, 83 of it's comrades had died on flying duties, aircraft had carried 280,000 passengers on government service, together with nearly 50 million pounds of cargo and mail. The BA aircraft had flown 57 million miles on a route network that at war end spanned 54,000 miles.
In 1946, BOAC had two offspring, the first being British European Airways, and the other being British South American Airways. After the war, BOAC's most modern arcraft were operating on the Atlantic, and interestingly, on 1 July 1946, BA started Constellation 049 services between Heathrow and New York (La Guardia)!
The rest is history, BEA and BOAC were merged in the early 70's into British Airways in 1974, and BA was privatised in 1987.
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
DELL_dude
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RE: Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Tue Jan 15, 2002 6:38 am

TWA helped start several world airlines, including Air India and Lufthansa?

It seems most people either forget or do not know that.

DELL_dude
 
patroni
Posts: 1372
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DELL_dude

Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:22 am

Hi,

>>TWA helped start several world airlines, including Air India and Lufthansa?
It seems most people either forget or do not know that.<<

Well, yes, TWA definitely helped Lufthansa to get on its feet again after being resurrected in 1955, but of course this was not a "present" from TWA. In fact, the TWA captains who comandeered the Lockheed Super Constellations (supervising a crew of Germans who had not been allowed to fly for the past 10 years) earned quite a lot of money from LH and had a life like a king in postwar Germany for a couple of years until German captains were certified to fly the Conny themself.

Best regards,

Tom


 
Elchanan
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 6:24 pm

RE: Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:18 pm

Thank you all for your input - especially Carduelis - good one on Imperial Airways.
Found a good site on airlines and their history:

http://aerotransport.free.fr/
 
GRZ-AIR
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RE: Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Wed Jan 16, 2002 11:05 pm



Also I guess that the name LUFTHANSA
has something to do with the so called HANSESTAEDTE in Germany ?
When I joined A.net it was still free, haha ;).
 
Elchanan
Topic Author
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 6:24 pm

RE: Lufthansa And Other European Airlines Origins

Thu Jan 17, 2002 12:07 am

GRZ-AIR
The name "Hansa" probably refers to the hanseatic cities of Germany, yes. The Hanseatic League with it's headquarter in Lübeck was an important trade organization especially for the north. Hanseatic cities were established along the Baltic Sea and the Norwegian coast. The Hanseatic League is however a phenomenon of the late Middle Ages and early modern times. Interestingly enough, Luft Hansa showed an early interest in opening routes to the Baltic and the Nordic states. I doubt however that there is any link other than by association - much the same way as many Scandinavian products or companies often use the name "Viking".

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