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American Will Retire 717s

Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:53 pm

From Travel Weekly online.

AMR Corp. posts record loss; AA to retire 717s (1/17/2002)

DALLAS -- American Airlines parent, AMR Corp., lost a company record $798 million in the fourth quarter compared with a $47 million profit in fourth-quarter 2000.
Its revenue fell 21.7%, to $3.8 billion. For the year, it lost $1.76 billion compared with an $813 million profit in 2000.

American said its cash-burn rate was $8.5 million to $9 million a day in the fourth quarter but added the burn rate improved to just under $6 million in December.

Chief financial officer Tom Horton predicted the cash flow could turn positive in the second or third quarter, but a "substantial loss" is in the cards for the first quarter.

Concurrent with its earnings report, American said it reached an agreement with Boeing under which the airline will retire its 717 fleet by June.

American said it intended to retire the 717, a short-haul, 100- seat aircraft similar in size to the airline's Fokker F100s, ever since it acquired TWA, but this agreement lets it do so earlier than planned.

American said it does not need two similarly sized airplanes and wants to reduce costs by simplifying its fleet, which should lessen maintenance and training expenses.

American said it will have reduced its basic fleet types from 14 two years ago to seven by the end of 2002.
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:29 am

I'm wondering outloud here, about that last paragraph. Fourteen basic types??? I can only think of ten basic types AA had two years ago. Let see, there was the...A300, 727, 737, 757, 767, 777, DC-10, F100, MD-11 & MD-80. Did I miss something here? At least the media got the part right about AA having seven basic types by the end of this year. A300, 737, 757, 767, 777, F100 & MD-80. That's the media for ya! You can't believe everything that they print.  Wink/being sarcastic Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:35 am

Please note the article reads "American said...." If that's the info they provided the reporter, that's the info the reporter used.

Ask yourself , is it possible they included Eagle types? What about model differences, in the DC-10 and 737 families, for instance?

Don't make the media the default bad guy. They blow it a lot, I admit, but I'll give the reporter credit for not sitting there thinking "14 sounds like a good number!"
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:46 am

The 14 basic did include types as TW DC-9, Renos MD87 and MD90.

Brgds Anders
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:13 am

In other words, they're going to keep the paid for P.O.S. Fokkers. Well, you can't argue with that. While the F100's aren't as efficient as the 717, they are paid for.

Oh well. It's not like they're going to be scrapped. However, it certainly doesn't help keep 717 production alive.
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:02 am

2 years ago
A300, 727, 737, 757, 767(2&3),777, DC-10, MD-11, MD-82-83-87, F-100, ATR42-72, S-340, EMB-135-145.
So it could be 13 or 18.
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:06 am

I bet Boeing are unhappy, a bunch of newly new 717's coming on to an already depressed market?
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:25 am

Why does`t American replace th Fokker 100s with the 717s!?!?! Stupid!!

D E L T A 7 7 7
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:33 am

How are retirement plans for the 727? When will the last one leave the fleet?


RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:18 am

This was a dumb move by AA because these 717s (MD-95s), are part of the MD-80 family so their pilots should be able to transition to the 717 with no problem. Their Fokker F100s are getting up there in their age and with the Fokker company out of business, isn't there a lack of spare parts for these aircraft?
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:26 am


Fokker is not out of business. They just no longer manufactuer aircraft.

They still provide spare parts for all there aircraft, although spare parts are still difficult and expensive to get. They are partners with Airbus Industries aswell.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:02 am

I dont think there is all that much comintallity with the MD-80 and the 717. Think about it: New cockpit, powerplant, interior, and the 717 does not have the "tab" system for its control surfaces. So bascailly the only simmilarity the two planes share is the airframe cross section.
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:08 am

I think AA knows what its doing more then we do. Everyone says this is dumb, but obviously they must feel its the right move. The Fokkers aren't that old. AA has the ability to manufacturer just about every spare part they would need, plus Rolls Royce, the avionics manufacturers, etc are all still in buisness, so just spome main structures are alll that woulkd be tough to come by. Plus the most imprtant reason is that they are paid for. Like I said, I think AA tackled thsi problem and determined the Fokkers to be the best bet for the future, they even wanted USAirways, has to say something.
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:10 am

I dont imagine it would have been much of an issue to transition pilots from an MD-80 to a 717, but thats not becuause they are of the same "family". At Alaska Airlines, pilots that move from MD-80s to 737s or vice versa do so in a short period of time, its not like you have to re-learn how to fly.

MDCJets- would you not say that the ONLY thing the 717 shares with other MD-8x/9x jets is the cross section? The airframe may appear to be the same, but is composed of more composites and was really all new from the drawing board.

People keep talking about the 717 as a DC-9 with bigger engines and how its the same.....well, it isnt at all the same, its completely new.
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Fri Jan 18, 2002 11:13 am

The 727s will be out of the fleet by May...
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:31 am

The bad news it that it doesn't bode well for the 717 program. The good news is that there may already be a customer lined up for them. Boeing will probably offer them to AirTran in exchange for some of the options AirTran already has. That way Boeing can close the line after all of the confirmed orders are completed. From the way it looks, AirTran is doing something the majors are not doing right now, expanding, so they could use these newly available 717s to establish a beachhead in a new part of the country. It's a win-win situation for both companies. The only other major order on the books is Midwest Express' order, so some of the AA 717 might be offered to them as well to hurry up the 717 shutdown. Smooth move AA, no wondering you guys are burning through over $5 million a day. You guys using the same accounting firm as Enron?
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Sat Jan 19, 2002 5:15 am

I heard that some of the 717s might make their way to Australia - to Qantas, as QF is considering replacing some of their Airlink fleet of 146s with the 717s.

Given that QF has tied itself up with AA - re delivery of ex AA 737-800s, seems logical that some of these a/c might be heading this way. Anyone else heard anything similar?
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Sat Jan 19, 2002 6:06 am

The 717 line will not be closed in the next time. Boeing said that they have to be patient with the 717, the orders will come in...
Ant thats not new that AA doesn't want the 717...Boeing has been knowing this when they decided to continue with the 717.
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Sat Jan 19, 2002 6:21 am

717fan, do you really think so? Boeing might have known that AA was thinking about retiring the B717 but this retirement still affects the line. This was the only big carrier operating the B717 and now they drop it - that really hurts the image. I think there will be some re-considerations concerning the B717 line - you can´t tell me that a 1.5 frame production a month makes sense. The order book isn´t really that fattest, the only order still pending is Midwest - and they think about taking a number if not all AA B717. That leaves only the AirTran order on the line (something around 20 frames), not really much. So far Hawaiian and Impulse have yet to place their add-on orders...

Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
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RE: American Will Retire 717s

Sun Jan 20, 2002 12:21 am

I think they won't close the 717 line in the next 2 years. The 100-seat market is to start being very interesting and Boeing will get a piece of it. They need some orders in the next 2 years otherwise they will probably cut the 717 line.
IMO the A318 is not in a better situation than the 717, and the big RJ's are not as succesful as the small ones.
I think all of them (including the 717) will have a chance in the future. There is a big market for 100 seaters.

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