airmale
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PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:12 am

According to a reliable source the five Cathay Pacific 747-300s in PIA's fleet are to remain in the White scheme as part of the deal, Cathay Pacific want it that way, and that is why the then MD had brought in the floral tail to spruce it up, why is this so? any CX people here to explain Confused

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airmale
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:35 am

Isnt four years too long a period for them to be in this state? any other airlines with long term leases operating aircraft in incomplete livery? I think Cathay should allow PIA to paint them in their full colours Smile
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gf-a330
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Fri Jan 18, 2002 7:42 am

Rightly so !

CX should be able to let PK to decide what they want to do with them.

Anyway, its likely PK will purchase them at the end of the lease agreement.
 
hkg_clk
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Fri Jan 18, 2002 8:55 am

Maybe CX thought there was a chance that PIA could prematurely terminate the leases? Having the aircraft in a predominantly white colour would mean that CX could more easily lease them out to other carriers on a short term basis.
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eta unknown
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:53 pm

CX owns the aircraft- they can dictate what they want.
 
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yyz717
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:10 pm

That's a shame....the full PIA scheme with the green underside and slanted stripes is sharp!

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
bigmo747
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Sat Jan 19, 2002 1:57 am

Any news on PIA fleet upgrade plans??
 
gf-a330
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RE: Fleet Renewal

Sat Jan 19, 2002 5:01 am

Bigmo747

Hello

PIA management are currently deciding on the aircraft types for the fleet renewal program. Most recently it was rumoured that PIA would be acquiring 6x used ATR 42's to replace ageing F-27's, with a few nearing towards the age of 38 !

They are being tight lipped about the 777. I'm hearing some reports that the aircraft is being painted in the PIA color scheme and others suggesting that the deal is off, because the Finance minister did not find it financially viable for the airline to make such big purchases. Instead the government officials, recommended to PIA that they purchase 8 second hand A310 aircraft. These will be implemented to replace 4 747-200s and 2 747 combis, which is costing the airline alot of dollars to maintain them to airworthiness.

I'm not too sure about the A300's. Many have been written off, or withdrawn from service permanently due to corrosion.

Hope this helps you.

Regards
 
airmale
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Sat Jan 19, 2002 11:52 pm

I dont know of any other airline operating long term lease equipment in half a livery, four years is a very long time for them to carry on this way.

PIA already suffer from a bad image, for those who dont know of their service and ground handling problems the livery is the only thing they know and see about PIA and for PK to bring that shoddy attitude to the exterior of the aircraft on demand from someone else is just too much.

I dont think CX have any right to dictate how PIA should keep their planes especially since under the new agreement 90% of the lease is in PIA's favour literally making them like owners of the planes, PIA should paint the aircraft in full without regard to the deal, more so now since they have reverted to the Green belly livery and thats their official scheme, If this petty issue bothers Cathay so much then they can take back the planes and have them stand idle in some desert.

What if KLM had leased these planes? would they operate them in a white livery for four years? Id like to see CX dictate terms to them Angry
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gf-a330
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Sun Jan 20, 2002 12:16 am

I'm sure other airlines who lease out equipment adopt there own scheme.

For example, TAM has leased two A330's from GF. TAM are operating these A330's in there full colour scheme.

Likewise any other airline would do the same.

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yyz717
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Sun Jan 20, 2002 2:21 am

Well, if the exterior paint is important enough to PIA, they are free to lease 743's from other carriers instead. CX absolutely has the right to dictate the paint since they are the owners, however reasonable or unreasonable it is.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
bigmo747
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:05 am

Hey,

I agree with yyz717, it's really pretty simple-- A lease is a lease and outright ownership is outright ownership. If u lease a Honda from a Honda dealership, at the end of the lease if nothing else the car has to be in the same color.

If Pia really want the 743's in their full scheme, they should make a deal with Cathay stating that if Pia do not purchase the aircraft at the end of the agreement, they will return the aircraft in the condition in which they were received (at least externally). I personally feel that Pia should receive a new livery altogether!! A few weeks ago i saw a few possible new designs of the livery in the same silver paint as Virgin--now that would bring a new refreshed look to PIA.

GF-A330, thanks for the update and let's keep our fingers crossed about the possible new 777's. I don't think that the A-310's would be suitable to PIA's needs--what would be nice is to see some 744's in their line up. Maybe they could get some used one's from Malaysian or thru Boeing.

Regards
 
airmale
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Sun Jan 20, 2002 4:52 am

What you said makes sense Bigmo747, regarding PIA agreeing to return the aircraft to CX as white but painting them in their full colours while theyre in service with PK.

Yyz717-Incase you are not aware PIA was forced to change the eight years 'young' livery of their entire fleet just because of the lease of these five planes, why? because CX told them to keep the 743s mostly white, as I mentioned above would KLM or any other airline that are concious of their image operate half painted aircraft in their fleet for five years one of which will be over in April, would an airline like KLM choose to go all white and drop their colours because the company that has leased the planes to them wants them to stay white? why do PIA have to put up with this, and no PIA are not bothered about colouring the planes thats the sad part and thats what I meant when I said its sad to see them bring their service apathy to the exterior image of their planes too, do they have to remain third rate always? why Confused
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yyz717
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Sun Jan 20, 2002 5:05 am

There is nothing stopping PIA from leasing different 743's or new/used aircraft altogether. Then they can paint them as they choose. If PIA finances are poor and the CX lease is the only one they can get, that is their problem.

PIA's image is perhaps not that important. PIA has a lock on the Pakistani-ethnic travel market and is unlikely to lose that over a colour scheme change.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
airmale
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Sun Jan 20, 2002 6:45 pm

Bigmo747-The Silver paint although very attractive is too high maintainence so its not suitable for PIA, they could go for a lighter Grey like SAS, as for the condition of the 747-300, dont even bother to ask, I dont think CX will even want to touch them with a ten foot pole, once the lease is over, they will probably gift them to PIA Smile
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gf-a330
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Sun Jan 20, 2002 8:55 pm

Regular maintenance checks is carried out every month on the 747-300 at PIA Maintenance Hangar at Karachi.

CX had offered to provide full maintenance as part of the deal. But PIA opted away, and instead decided to carry out the maintenance in house, by using its own resources and expertise.

I have flown the 747-300 and I must admit. These aircraft are in shambles. Both exterior and interior wise.

By the way. What would be the market value of the 747-300, if PIA bought them from CX ?
 
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yyz717
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:02 am

CX is unlikely to want to re-introduce 743's to its fleet. These a/c will probably never see CX service again.

In what way are the interiors a shambles?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
airmale
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RE: PIA 747-300s To Remain White As Part Of Deal

Mon Jan 21, 2002 6:47 am

Since CX wont be putting the aircraft in service with them, why not allow PIA to paint them unconditionally? as for the condition of the planes, well theres Duct tape holding bits and pieces throughout the interior, the carpeting actually has BALD patches, so disgraceful its unbelieveable, the seat covers are dull and worn out, theyre originals from CX own interiors and its difficult to figure out wether they were Green or Blue or a mix of both actually theyre more on the Grey side now, the PTV screens are scratched and many do not even work, wonder how the fax machine is doing? the main projection screen is also scratched, what else? everything seems dirty and dull, seat handles are grimy, PTV controls touch system is damaged, furnishing is chipped, some of the over head bins have become loose, out side I actually thought part of the wing was stuck with some kind of rubbery adhesive as I had used when in school. Oh well, whats new Smile
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