funny
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A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:17 pm

I was wondering. Two freshly rolled out aircraft, with only weeks of technology difference, and relatively the same size, are bound to have some competition in the market.

Why would an airline choose Embreaer?

Why would an airline choose Airbus?


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My question is: Do you think there will be a noticable competion between the two aircraft types?

Jase
 
steman
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:23 pm

Maybe you should wait the proposed but not yet confirmed (am I right?) EMB-195 rather than the -175.

Ciao

Stefano
 
funny
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:27 pm

The ERJ195 is quite bigger.

I am more interested in the size of both aircraft, being very alike.

Therefore im asking for the ERJ175.

Jase

 
SailorOrion
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:40 pm

The 175 has way less seats than the A318 ... Steman is right, the 190 or 195 would be way better a competitor to the A318. Dont forget about the FD728Jet, I think the rollout will be January 28th, but it may be delayed by a couple of weeks. FD also makes the 928Jet, which IMHO could give the 736,. A318 and 717 a real hard time in the 100-seat market. Check out FD's page at http://www.faidor.com Do not forget to compare the masses of the planes. You'll be surprised.

SailorOrion
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:00 pm

Sailor is right, the Embraer 175 has seating for 78 pax, the A318 for 100+. The direct competitor for theA318, B717 and B736 are the Embraer 195 (up to 108 seats) and the 928JET (up to 110 seats). The Embraer 195 is confirmed, Crossair is the launch (and to date the only) customer for it, first deliveries are set for late 2004. Sailor, where did you hear that the 728JET will roll-out at the 28th? I thought roll-out would be in March?!?

Regards
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Udo
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:38 pm

The "jungle jets" are much cheaper than Airbus...
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
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DaV
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 8:03 pm

It will be interesting to see airlines wich fly both the A320 family and the Embraer ERJ family wich aircraft decide to get for the 100 pax segment... I'm thinking about airlines like British Airways, Alitalia, USAirways (if survives...), and so on.

Personally I can't see a bright future for FD, even if their are good products, they've never had contract signed by big airlines neither in Europe or in the US (or I am wrong?).

Rgds

DaV
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Flying-Tiger
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 8:14 pm

FD has contracts (only from big airlines) from Lufthansa CityLine (60+60 728JET), CSA - Czech Airlines (4+4 leased 728JET), Atlantic Coast Airlines (62+83 FD328-300 [328JET]) and a rumoured LoI for 30 728JET from KLM Cityhopper. Please don´t forget that the current ERJ-135/140/145 have nothing in common with the Embraer 170/175/190/195.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
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funny
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:07 pm

OK.

Lets turn my question around and ask, will there be a competition between ERJ and Airbus, as they roll-out both similar aircraft.

Jason
 
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DaV
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:15 pm

Oh, didn't know that, sorry. Thanx for the info Flying-Tiger. Next time I'll check better my info!

Anyway I still think that airlines wich has already Embraer or Airbus (or both) aircraft online, hardly will chose over the Do-x28 series.

Couldn't be a smart move by Airbus to take over Dornier, or at least try to come to an accord with them for a similar cockpit implementation? I've seen that Dornier is already produce parts for Airbus... any idea?

Rgds

DaV
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Flying-Tiger
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:33 pm

Jason, I would widen your question to: how will the Embraer, CRJs and Fairchild-Dorniers compete with the B717-200, B737-600 and A318 since all play in the same class (the CRJ900 only to some extend due to its smaller size).

DaV, not necessarily. As I stated the ERJ-145-family and the larger brothers are two completely different aircraft families - as the CRJ700/900 and the 728/928JET are.

In the long-term it is really an option that Airbus takes over Dornier as this company is held by CD&R and the Allianz Group, two venture capitalists. However some problems could arouse as Aerospatiale/Dassault already co-operates with Embraer.

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Flying-Tiger
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steman
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:20 pm

DaV,
The French industry has already a 20% stake in Embraer through Aerospatiale and SNECMA so a possible joint venture could come in the future between EMBRAER and Airbus or ATR.

Ciao

Stefano
 
funny
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 11:34 pm

Here is what Flying-Tiger said:


I would widen your question to: how will the Embraer, CRJs and Fairchild-Dorniers compete with the B717-200, B737-600 and A318 since all play in the same class (the CRJ900 only to some extend due to its smaller size).


OK. Well this is now my question!

What do you guys think?

Jase

 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: A318 Vs EMB-175...competition?

Fri Jan 18, 2002 11:40 pm

This is exactly what I think. The 736 and the 318 are add-ons to their respective families, provided to airlines which already operate members of this family and have thus the advantage of cross-crew qualification, maintenance etc. As stand-alones they are expensice due to the already mentioned strucutral over-weight which increases land fees, fuel consumption and have loading problems.

The "New Generation" regional jets have been design for this market with the 70-seats (728JET, Embraer 170, CRJ700) being the front-runners. The follow-on models in the larger market around 100-seats are straight derivates and share a very high degree of commonality - but at a much lower weight. As many might know by streching a plane you usually get slightly improved performace figures and lower seat-mile costs, this is why Embraer has a three-strech (Embraer 195), Fairchild-Dornier has the 728JET streched once to the 928JET and is considering a so-called "1128JET" as the third family member.

Especially the 100-seaters are appealing to mainline-carriers as they are very suitable B737-200, Fokker F100 and 28-4000, DC-9-10/20/30 and BAe 146-200/300 replacements. The 70-seaters are of more interest to growing regional airlines who have grown out of their 50-seaters.

I see a big market for these new aircraft families, especially the Embraer 195 and 928JET will attract orders IMO, maybe already this year with the Qantas/British Airways, the Air France, the British European and the US Airways decisions pending.

In the long-term I see Northwest as a very likely customer for this kind of aircraft, better aircraft of the respective families. Why? The 120+-seat segment is covered by the A319/320, the lower segment till 70-seats is operated by the Link divisions. Leaves the 80-110-seagment wide open, THE terrain for the NG-RJs. I won´t comment on the B717-200 here, this topic has been discussed to death.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
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