Jer32382
Topic Author
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:35 am

Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 2:01 am

I am sorry, but I really don't think that EVERY single bag is being screened. What do you all think?
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 2:58 am

Haha... there's worse than just that! Some time ago Air Malta tried to make me believe that baggage is X-rayed at Gozo Heliport... lolololololol! I'm not that stupid... I can see the conveyor from the check-in desk leads straight to the tarmac  Laugh out loud
-turbolet
 
Jer32382
Topic Author
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:35 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 3:15 am

LOL
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 3:26 am

Worse still, I have proof!
 
acidradio
Crew
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 3:19 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 3:52 am

Come on, all the bag handlers look through all the luggage for women's underwear anyways! I think everything will be just fine  Big grin
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
Guest

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 3:59 am

Well they can do it quickly with hounds.
Iain
 
Guest

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:21 am

No, it's just a 'positive bag match'(aka corporate jargon) method that makes sure that the passenger is on the flight with the bags, which is supposed to prevent the non-suicide bombers. Suicide ones are still good as gold.
 
ariegel
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:26 am

But bags for connecting pax are not subject to bag matching, so as long as the non-suicide bomber does not board his connecting flight then we are still in trouble. Jeez, who thinks up this stuff.. Makes you thankful for all those tax dollars, doesn't it?

A
 
Jer32382
Topic Author
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:35 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:56 am

At least we can have a good laugh about it  Laugh out loud
 
Jaspike
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:40 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 5:20 am

No offence to Spanish people, but in Spain, the people who are meant to be checking the hand luggage are usually haveing a cigarette, drinking or joking with each other!

I could have taken a bomb, knives and a few guns on one of my flights if I wanted to!

Josh
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
CO 757-300
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 7:08 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 5:27 am

my dad left for EWR-LHR on Virgin on Wednesday and they s4earched his bag inside and out and removed all metal object such as clothes hangers, tweezers,.....ect
 
Jaspike
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:40 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 5:45 am

Kaddyuk, I was in Reus, and there was a load of us flying back to Teesside, and it was 6am. I think it depends where you go, how busy it is and whether the staff care or not!

Josh
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
EWRvirgin
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 11:38 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 6:32 am

There's no excuse for not screening every bag other than cost. For the airlines to say that its not practical and would result in delay after delay is ridiculous. It takes longer for 1 passenger to go through screening (even before 9/11) at a checkpoint handling an entire concourse of flights than it does for a bag to get properly X-rayed as it heads towards the A/C.

Exemplified by what another member posted, VS is very serious about security and without exception every bag is reconciled and is X-rayed. This was the case even before 9/11. VS has also taken other steps since then to put them at the head of the class, security-wise. Other airlines would do good to take note of this.

It's not that I'm tooting VS's horn, but I am genuinely disgusted with how slow the airlines have been to respond to the threats facing them. And its all because upper management doesn't know s**t from shinola when it comes to prioritizing. I wish I didn't have to patronize them just to go on vacation.
 
Jer32382
Topic Author
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:35 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 6:45 am

Interesting responses, keep em comin!
 
2cn
Posts: 632
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:30 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 7:47 am

EWRvirgin- it is not ridiculous. Some airlines may only have one or two xray machines in the bag room at aiports, and to expect them to be able to screen each and every bag with out a delay is ridiculous. No, I am not making an excuse as to why it can't be done.. but I am explaining why it can't be done right now. The airlines do need to get moving and order more of the xray machines for the bagrooms, but it will also take the companies who manufacture the machines to be able to crank them out alot quicker then it seems they can.
 
Guest

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 1:19 pm

There are not enough CTX machines right now to screen all bags. Right now there are around 140 machines and over 400 airports that need them. Eventually I beleive all bags will go through a CTX or similar x-ray explosive detection device once there are enough to go around.
 
jfk747
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 12:20 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 1:25 pm

please, airlines can't even get the bags in the right cities, let alone search all of them and match them with the pax. one step at a time
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 2:55 pm

Every bag IS being screened, but the defintion of 'screening' is being changed often so as to confuse the issue.

Any of these constitutes screening:
- Large baggage X-Ray/Explosive Detection machines
- Bomb-sniffing dogs
- Manual searches
- Positive bag match

So, if an airline is 100% bag match, they don't have to go through any of the others (until 1/1/03).
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:22 pm

The airlines should've done this in the early 80s! Just look what happened in 88 when one airline decided not to follow pax/bag match regualtions. Hopefully the airlines learned their lessons and the FAA will actually do it's job and start enforcing rules no if ands or buts about it!
"FUIMUS"
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 6:59 pm

EWRVirgin, if you mean US by VS that's simply not true. Before Sept last year, the majority of both people and bags were not checked at all.
Officially because of time problems (could be partially true because of the ridiculous policy of allowing non-passengers past the checkpoint which often led to over 50% of people in the supposedly secure area being non-passengers) but mostly because of cost and lazy/noncaring/noneducated staff.

2cn, if there are only one or two machines in the luggage handling area, then that airport or airline (whoever runs the area) is criminally negligent of security. Each conveyor or door leading into and/or out of the area should have a checkpoint where each person (yes, staff too) and bag (also those carried by staff) is checked. It has been this way in most of the rest of the civilised world for decades and it's paid off.
I wish I were flying
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 8:21 pm

I dont understand why everyone seems to accept the bag match as an acceptable option. If we accept that the threat is from a suicide bomber, then the bag match will not do anything at all.

It amazes me that people are accepting this

Jer
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sat Jan 19, 2002 9:58 pm

Turbolet said:
Haha... there's worse than just that! Some time ago Air Malta tried to make me believe that baggage is X-rayed at Gozo Heliport... lolololololol! I'm not that stupid... I can see the conveyor from the check-in desk leads straight to the tarmac

Just for the record, Gozo heliport (GZM) is just a domestic one that feeds flights at Malta International airport. Flights are operated by an Mi-8 helicopter operated by Malta Air Charter - a subsidiary of AirMalta. There are between 5 and 10 flights a day, and MAC is the sole operator at the heliport.
Turbolet - are you sure that the bags are not screened individually by hand? There is a security presence at the heliport?
Besides when the transit bags arrive at Malta International Airport THEY WILL BE SCREENED BEFORE BEING LOADED ON TO CONNECTING INTERNATIONAL FLIGHTS.
I will be making some enquiries about this and will post the details of how bags are actually screened at GZM.


 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sun Jan 20, 2002 12:28 am

LMML 14/32:
Please do ask about that. There is a security presence at GZM in the shape of a soldier, but I doubt he checks checked baggage. And the message I received from Air Malta explicitly said that baggage is x-rayed at GZM.
Okay, I realize how small Gozo is and I also realize baggage is screened at MLA before loading for international flights, I'm concerned about the security of the helicopter itself. After 9/11, even a Mi-8 could be a security threat.
-turbolet
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sun Jan 20, 2002 12:38 am

I must also add that not even carry-ons are x-rayed at GZM, the only means of screening is a metal detector, at least that is how it was last July when I was there last.
And LMML 14/32, regarding the treatment of checked baggage at MLA, I wonder if you've seen this letter in The Times yesterday:

Security at MIA
David Pope, Birkirkara.

I would publicly like to thank the Malta International Airport employee(s) who so caringly handled my suitcase during the 'season of goodwill to all men'.

On December 21, I caught flight KM100 to the UK to spend Christmas and New Year with my eldest daughter who is seriously ill. On arriving at my daughter's house and opening my suitcase I discovered that some items were missing. Between handling my suitcase in at about 5.30 a.m. and it being loaded onto the aircraft, someone carefully 'picked' or used a 'skeleton' key to open both padlocks on my suitcase, steal a camera, cigarettes and Christmas cards, no doubt hoping the latter would contain money.

They then secured the padlocks again so that everything appeared normal and the crime would go undetected until the owner arrived at his destination. It was definitely done in Malta as there was no time at all for the crime to be committed at Heathrow in the rapid time the luggage was unloaded and put onto the carousel.

In June 2001, I had a similar experience but put it down to rough handling as the suitcase was only half full and contained only clothes. I now believe that it too was interfered with in the same way.

My camera was wrapped in clothes in a small suitcase inside the large suitcase.

This apparent lack of security has far more sinister implications after the September 11 attacks. If someone can so easily tamper with our luggage and steal items, then they could just as easily hide a bomb inside as well. Or even plant another suitcase to be transferred at Heathrow onto another flight to the US.

So finally, if you or someone you know, was given or acquired a Halina prestige 280As 35mm camera on or around Christmas, then you probably now know how and where it was obtained from and I hope it gives you great joy.


Source: http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=85951
-turbolet
 
SJCguy
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:39 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sun Jan 20, 2002 8:19 am

With all due respect buddy, if ya don't work for an airline or at the airport, don't comment on what is and what isn't being done. If they say every bag at your airport is being screened, then at one point or another, for however long, every bag is being screened- be it by dogs, machine, or employees.

SJCguy
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sun Jan 20, 2002 10:17 pm

If they say every bag at your airport is being screened, then at one point or another, for however long, every bag is being screened- be it by dogs, machine, or employees.

I hate being bullsh*tted. By anyone. So if someone tells me that all bags are x-rayed and they're not (I highly doubt it seeing that not even carry-ons are, it irritates me. I want an open and honest approach from the airport and airline.
-turbolet
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sun Jan 20, 2002 10:45 pm

Extract from Turbolet's "Quote" from newspaper
It was definitely done in Malta as there was no time at all for the crime to be committed at Heathrow in the rapid time the luggage was unloaded and put onto the carousel.
I beg to differ. I don't know how familiar you are with LHR, but you sure know how small Malta International Airport is. What this passenger is saying is merely his opinion. Like SCJguy said, if the airline says the bags are being screened there is no reason to doubt it. At MIA (Malta International Airport) there is an elaborate array of baggage screening devices in the baggage sorting area. It is an area that is well lit, with ramp despatchers and security present at all times. This area is immediately behind the check in area. From there the bags are loaded on dollies and transported a short distance to the aircraft. There are numerous security cameras along the way. The distance to the apron is no more than 100 mts. So I doubt pilferage has taken place there, although I am not dismissing anything. Anyone that has landed in LHR T4 can be testimony to the extreme distance from the aircraft to the baggage claim area. Again I am not pointing fingers - simply expressing my opinion, like the Times reader.
If a terrorist wants to plant a bomb on board an aircraft HE WILL SUCCEED ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. All he has to do is observe and find a weak link in the form of an airline/security employee. All we can do is improve the systems and try to anticipate the twisted minds that are all around us. Nothing is failsafe and nobody is making that claim. But beleive you me everybody everywhere is trying hard to come as close to that as possible and there is no reason for me or anybody else to doubt that.
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sun Jan 20, 2002 11:29 pm

......... and who, in his right mind, would put a camera in his checked baggage?
 
skyhawk
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 12:23 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Sun Jan 20, 2002 11:38 pm

You would think that if someone lost something due to what they think is baggage handlers, then they would not put something as valuable as a camera in their bag the second time. In fact most airlines warn you not to do just that. In addition you are not supposed to check any necessary medications in your baggage. Carry them on board with you!
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Mon Jan 21, 2002 5:33 am

Hey, I'm not saying I share that person's opinion, I just posted that letter here to show what people had to say about Malta International.
Simple solution: shrink wrapping bags.
-turbolet
 
kaitakfan
Posts: 1482
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:04 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Mon Jan 21, 2002 6:05 am

I like what United Airlines is doing down in Sydney... Checked bag is getting searched as with all carry on bags! each time I have been down there since 9/11 they have two jetways walled off in the international terminal. when you enter the walled off area there are tables at each side of the entrance with 4 guys on each side that search everyones bag. After this there is another hand done metal detection in the jetway before getting on the plane. everything runs nice and smooth! it would be great to see this done here in the states. However I dont think it could be executed as smoothly as in Sydney.
 
EWRvirgin
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 11:38 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Mon Jan 21, 2002 6:19 am

Jwenting,

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you or if you're misunderstanding me so let me clarify: ALL Virgin Atlantic checked luggage has been X-rayed at every station even prior to 9/11. This has been a matter of VS policy for years now (presumably since Lockerbie) and was, coincidentally, a nice selling point after 9/11.

2cn,

It is ridiculous in that there aren't more machines to do this. As someone else pointed out, the airline industry should have learned a lesson after PA103 and have those machines already in place.

Granted the 9/11 attacks had nothing to do with checked luggage but I'm merely illustrating the mindset of management in the airline industry.
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Mon Jan 21, 2002 6:22 am

I'm sure all UK airports check all bags. Plus the armed police presence at LHR is incredible now - I was there last week and there must have been 25 armed officers in Terminal 3 alone - not to mention the undercover officers.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
aa777flyer
Posts: 1017
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 8:45 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Mon Jan 21, 2002 6:48 am

Right now it is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain the schedule of flights and CTX every bag. At best the CTX can process 200 bags per hour. Imagine a major hub such as DFW/ATL/ORD/JFK. In order to CTX every bag the check in cut off would be 7 hours prior. OR airlines could probably at best run only 20-30% of their existing schedule. Until airports go through a major redesign (remember a CTX is about the size of a mini van) and the production line is really cranked up (we need 6 in SJC to handle AA/WN alone in terminal A) it is not feasable to CTX every bag
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
Fly_ATA
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:10 am

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:29 am

This post should be called the "how to" for terrorists!! Trading stories of where you think security lacks by posting them on the internet just does not seem very wise to me !
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Screening Every Bag? Don't Let Them Fool You

Mon Jan 21, 2002 11:12 pm

Fly_ATA: don't you think it's better if we try to point out the defects of air security so that something can be done about them rather than being blind to them and pretending they're not there, only to have out eyes open wide next time someone blows up a plane and ask "How the hell could they do it? Security is sooooooooooooo tight!"
Lm 0.02
-turbolet

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