flymia
Posts: 6810
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Sat Jan 19, 2002 3:15 am

Someone told me a plane crashed in Antarctica is that true. More INFo Please.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
Guest

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Sat Jan 19, 2002 3:18 am

when ?
 
docpepz
Posts: 1706
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 8:20 pm

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Sat Jan 19, 2002 3:19 am

An Air New Zealand DC-10 crashed there in the late seventies. Could the New Zealanders please furnish us with the details?
 
rw774477
Posts: 1016
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2001 4:15 am

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Sat Jan 19, 2002 3:19 am

NZ DC-10 ZK-NZP 11/29/79

RW774477
 
woodsboy
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 5:59 am

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:02 am

The ANZ DC-10-30, flight 901 crased into Mt Erubus in November of 1979 while on a "flight seeing" excursion. The cause was later determined to have been incorrect coordinates supplied by ANZ dispatchers which effectively flew the airplane right into the side of the mountain, all 257 onboard perished. The blizzard conditions at the time of the accident made it impossible for the flight crew to visually determine the aircraft's position relative to the terrain. Its location high on the slopes of the active volcano posed a very difficult recovery effort in the month afterwords.
 
User avatar
airzim
Posts: 1216
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:41 am

In a way it was New Zealand's World Trade Center tragedy.

With so many gone and with NZ being a relatively small nation (population) it really had profound effects on the nation.

It was also never done again.

Although Qantas still do it.
 
b744
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 5:48 pm

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Sat Jan 19, 2002 5:09 am

Check out:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/656184

There were also some photos under another recent post, something about the worst crash photo.



 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3974
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Mon Jan 21, 2002 4:35 pm

Airzim - the difference was we didn't bomb Mount Erebus afterwards...

If you are looking for more information on the subject, may I suggest Impact Erebus by Gordon Vette, a former Air New Zealand pilot. It is rather thorough (though some may argue slightly one sided) in its detailing of the events leading up to the accident, and the resulting investigations. The version I read (though I have seen a version without this) also contained a series of photographs, including some taken from on board (several photographic films and at least one video film survived the crash). One happened to be taken at the very moment of impact - it is rather chilling, with ice and jetfuel being thrown up against the window.

Anyway, I hope this is of use

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Mon Jan 21, 2002 6:09 pm

 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Mon Jan 21, 2002 6:14 pm

VirginFlyer said:
and at least one video film survived the crash). One happened to be taken at the very moment of impact - it is rather chilling, with ice and jetfuel being thrown up against the window.

Is this video available on line somewhere? I am very interested in this crash. It is my "favourite" - for want of a better word. This is because this crash was never supposed to happen and the cause of it is the most rediculous human error in aviation history. It just goes to show how fragile aviation really is.

 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Mon Jan 21, 2002 6:22 pm

Good site LMML.
Only thing, they've listed the crash as 28 November 1978.
Was actually 28 November 1979; a Thursday if I remember rightly.
Same year as the AA Chicago one.
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Mon Jan 21, 2002 8:32 pm

You are correct. The crash happened in 1979. A misprint on the site probably.
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Mon Jan 21, 2002 8:43 pm

VirginFlyer - re-Gordon Vette's book, Impact Erebus, you described it as "one-sided". From what I've read about the accident (Air Disaster Vol II) the pilot had no fault in this accident. It was Air Newzealand that tried to put the blame on the pilot. So if the book is one-sided (I assume it is in favour of the pilot) there is a good reason for that. I am presently looking for the book.
 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Mon Jan 21, 2002 9:00 pm

Here she is......  Crying


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © AirNikon


 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3974
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Tue Jan 22, 2002 6:55 pm

LMML - The fact is there is still controversy as to where the blame lies. The popular acceptance is that the airline was at fault. However, this was finding, from a Royal Comission of Inquiry, was thrown out by the Privvy council due to procedural errors - the Commissioner had overstepped his jurisdiction in his findings. Personally, I believe this version, however Air New Zealand (and some of its staf, I am amazed TG992 hasn't popped in with this, I am sure he has before) will still contend that the crash would never have happened if Captain Collins hadn't descended to low altitude, common practice, but against regulations.

As with any plane crash, I think it is rather silly to say there was only one cause. This one had many - Poor engineering practices, confusing weather, a trick of geography that made a bay in front of the mountain appear the same as McMurdo sound, the pilots low alititude flight, and the lack of any form of forward looking GPWS, which undoubtedly would have prevented the accident. It is too much to take the Air New Zealand line, and say that solely the pilots were to blame, but at the same time, you can't go as far as to say they are completely blameless.

Where the book comes in a tad one sided is that it skips over the role of pilot error, and makes only a very minor issue out of the against-the-regulations-descent. I happen to be of similar opinion to the author, so it never has really bothered me, but if I am going to be objective, I have to say that the book does lean in favour of the pilots.

Anyway, I am rambling. Read the book, honestly, it is very very good.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:01 pm

*pop*

As I said in a previous thread, it was a tragic situation all round.

The pilots had descended below company minimums - granted, it was apparently common practice, but 'just because everyone's doing it doesn't make it right!'
If they hadn't, the crash never would have happened, but of COURSE if the flight plan hadn't been changed without their knowledge it would never have happened too.

A thread last year on pprnue was very interesting - the airline pilots that contributed were divided right down the middle as to whether the cause should be put down to pilot error or blamed on flight dispatch. That division is likely to endure forever.
-
 
rw774477
Posts: 1016
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2001 4:15 am

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:56 pm

Just thinking ... how much is the pax in 24F going to see ? If the 'show' is displayed on the screen above, how good could that be ? 757-300 would be better !

rw774477
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3974
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:26 am

Rw77447 - Unfortunately, Air New Zealand didnt have access to 757-300s in 1979...

Besides which a twin jet can't be flown over any part of Antarctica with the exception of the Antarctic Peninsula to the south of South America under 180 minutes ETOPS. Even with 240 minutes ETOPS, you would only get more of the Antarctic Peninsula, and a small strip of land south of Australia. Even if we forget ETOPS, a 757-300 would be unable to do it because, even originating in Christchurch, it would have to turn back before it reached Antarctica, or it would run out of fuel...

Anyway, with respect to the seating, when the aircraft was over the ice, people would be standing up near windows to take photographs, not sitting in their seats. I am unsure whethere this happened on the NZ flights, but on today's Antarctic flights, using a QF 744, there is a seat rotation system, where people swap seats part way through the flight so you will always be seated near a window for at least some part of the flight.

TG992 is probably correct in saying no consensus will ever be reached as to on who the blame should be placed.

LMML - sorry missed your question about the video before. I have never seen it online, only on TV here in New Zealand. But if you search for Erebus Crash Video or something like that on a search engine, maybe you'll find it. Oh, and the jet fuel and snow on the window is a still photo (that was in Impact Erebus), not a video. I am unsure if any video film showing the moment of the crash was ever recovered - I have certainly never heard anything of it. I doubt you'd really want to see it either, it would be too horrible seeing all those people at pretty much the moment they are killed - I found the images happy passengers taken in the hours before the crash hard enough to watch...

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Did A Plane Really Crash In Antarctica

Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:44 am

Footage of the moment of impact indeed exists and I have been privileged (if that's the word) to view it (I'm not sure if it's ever been released publically).

There's pretty much just a sudden jolt followed half a second later by a fireball, blurred images of snow and ice and debris, and the camera then goes dead. It's absolutely chilling.
-