flyaa757
Posts: 861
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 1999 7:12 am

757-300 Orders

Mon Aug 09, 1999 6:21 am

Unfortuantely, the 757-300 seems to be off to a slow selling start. Does anyone know of any new future orderrs or rumors? I would think that more European charter airlines would pick some up. The aircraft might also make sense for AA to "fill in" on Caribbean routes where the 757 is too small and the A300 is too large. I think it might also make a good addiotion for AA/UA's Hawaiian routes. Even Hawaiian airlines seems like a very good candidate. With ETOPS, the aircraft could feasibly operate all of HA's routes, including those to the South Pacific without any range difficulties. Anyone have any ideas or comments?
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2192
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: 757-300 Orders

Mon Aug 09, 1999 7:39 am

I agree that AA could really use the 757-300 on many of their Caribbean routes. it would be econmical for them because the aleady have the 757-200 and the 757-300 would perfectly fit some of their routes. I would assume that they would base them out of SJU and fly them to the mainland and also to points in South America.
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747
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RE: 757-300 Orders

Wed Aug 11, 1999 1:31 am

I think, Icelandair will buy some new 757's, but I'm not sure if there are -200 or 300
 
Guest

RE: 757-300 Orders

Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:59 am

Just a prediciton: National Airlines flies an all 757 fleet, so I assume they will be ordering as the -300 comes on line. Also, America West flies the 757, so I see that happening as well.

NAL757
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8196
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

They May As Well Close The Production Line Now.

Wed Aug 11, 1999 8:07 am

What about the 767-200? Surely the capacity is identical, but the 767-200 has a proven airframe/powerplant combination and is already fully ETOPS certified. Plus, it's a widebody and therefore more popular with passengers. In fact, with 2-3-2 seating it's the most comfortable layout of any aircraft. No-one is going to buy the 757-300 unless Boeing drop the price big time. All the European charter airlines are buying A320s, 321s and 330s as fast as AI can build them, and everyone else already has 767s. Boeing have reopened the 767-200 production line for Continental with 777 cabin and flightdeck (or so I am told), which I would have thought effectively renders the 757-300 dead in the water. It looks crap, and who has ordered it so far? Arkia, Condor and Icelandair. As Janice in 'Friends' would say: "Oh. My. God."
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
pandora
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:32 am

RE: They May As Well Close The Production Line Now.

Wed Aug 11, 1999 11:42 am

U R right my friend-Boeing's 757-300 is a big big big mistakte. The -300 hasn't got a market, where planes which have the similar capacities can outperform the -300 and Boeing's mangament team is to blame for this fatal mistake. The situation with the 757-300 is similar to the 767-400ER. Is Boeing crazy?
 
flyaa757
Posts: 861
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 1999 7:12 am

FYI

Wed Aug 11, 1999 12:01 pm

The 762 and 753 are designed for quite different markets. CO chose the 762 because of its greater range and larger cargo capacity. The seat mile costs of the 757-300 are FAR lower than any other aircraft in its category. Check the Boeing website. The 753 has been planned for charter operators, and higher density short/medium haul routes. I predict more orders in the near future. As the 767 Freighter conversion market picks up, who knows what will happen. Already 28 examples of the 762F have been ordered. The 753 seems a good replacement for these older aircraft. As more non ER a/c are repaced( I believe over 100 were built), well see what happens. As far as long term costs, seat mile costs go, the 753 knocks the socks off of the 762, 739, 321, and 332. The facts are on the websites, ya just need to look for 'em.
 
Guest

RE: 757-300 Orders

Wed Aug 11, 1999 12:42 pm

Boeing wont just waste money on some plane.
They know that it will be a better market as time progesses.
If people knew better about the market, they would understand that the 753 wasnt made just to see a if a stretch 757-200 looks wired or cool.

As all airlines mave been made, you have to give it some time, and that means a couple of years, it not like your selling a car, it takes time.

Just look that the begining of the 767. It's sales was about the same as the 753 was at the stage. Same thing with the hot-selling 737s and A320.

You gotta know the civil aviation markets, from the past, present, and future. As many times it this market, "History always repeats it self".


Rooz
 
pandora
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:32 am

Boeing Shows Poor Managment

Wed Aug 11, 1999 1:43 pm

The production crisis showed that Boeing has a poor managment-that is because of good excutives leaving the company. Also, not only the production crisis, the 757-300 and 767-400 are again poor product managment.

 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Boeing Shows Poor Managment

Wed Aug 11, 1999 5:54 pm

When I hear people saying that the 767 started really slowly they are forgetting just one little point, United, American, Air Canada, TWA and ANA had maded something like 120 orders on those "little" 767-200! What we have here is about a 10 aircraft order!!! And don't forget, unless the already 757 operators start to order the 300 version ( and that will be redundant due to the 767-200 or the A321-200 ) the 757-300 is a born dead aircraft, but it might have a value added aircraft for museums for example, with only 10 examples built any museum that can have one of the rare 757-300 might have a pearl in their portfolio!
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8196
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: 757-300 Orders

Thu Aug 12, 1999 1:40 am

I know some designs started very slowly, especially the 737 which was nearly abandoned in the late 60s, and of course the 757 which was a late bloomer. But even at the outset, as has been pointed out here, they had strong support from (in the case of the 737) Lufthansa and United and (in the case of the 757) Eastern, British Airways and Delta, all of whom ordered something like 50 each. Arkia have ordered what, THREE 757-300s? And Icelandair TWO? Condor, well, they've come through thank god, they've bought EIGHT!! Wow. The 757-300 will make the CV990 and the VC10 look like runaway successes.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
ken4556
Posts: 154
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 5:28 am

RE: 757-300 Orders

Thu Aug 12, 1999 1:57 am

I think you may be missing the point here. Boeing responded to a need from existing customers. The cost for the stretch should not have been very expensive, thus a small number of planes were needed to cover its development costs. It is built on the same production line, hence you can make them when you have orders or make standard -200 when they are required.

In the end, they -300 probably will not be a big seller, but keep existing customers from looking else where for a bigger airplane.

This, smart marketing.
 
Guest

The 753 Will Improve!

Thu Aug 12, 1999 2:41 am

As 767-400ER and Cedarjet said, many Boeing designs have started out very slowly and almost been termainated, until all of the sudden orders pick up and BAM, all of the sudden they're the hottest aircraft ever. Heck, the 707 started out slowly. And that was when William Boeing was still alive! This is the same thing that both McDonnell Douglas and Boeing were doing ever since the start of the Jet Age. That doesn't show poor management, it's what Boeing has been doing for 45 years, and they have always had success in the end. The 717 isn't selling good either, but orders are picking up. As you know, the 757-200 was the most economical aircraft in the industry, and the 757-300 proves to be even more economical. So here we have a brand new aircraft, which has the potential to be one of the greatest aircraft ever, and people are complaining about it. Its a time-old story. The 737 is only popular with airlines because its cheap to operate and can be used for smaller destinations, earning more revenue. The 753 makes the 737 look like the baby that it is economically. The airlines are hesitant to try a new design for fear of buy something crappy. Once they open their eyes and realized that their grandparents were thinking the same thing with the prototype 737s and 727s, they will star buying. And I assure you, it is not a mistake for Boeing. Realized that this is common for EVERY aircraft company. Lockheed had this with the L-1011, Airbus with the A300. It's NORMAL!! And airlines will also go for the comfortable 767-400ER. You'll see. It's a time-old drama being played out around the world with every product, not just airplanes. It'll work out as it always does.  
Soon, the 733, 734, 735, 752, and 763 will all be out of production, and will will have to live with what we got, which is the 737NG, 753, 717, 777 and 764ER.
Then we will realize the importance of these new aircraft.

DL 604
 
Capt.Fantastic
Posts: 839
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 1999 4:01 am

RE: 757-300 Orders

Thu Aug 12, 1999 4:39 am

One problem with the 757-300 is that potential costomers are concerned about the increased turn-around time of the -300, as compared to that of the -200. Boarding/disembarking such an aircraft could be quite time consuming. Condor has recently proved that the turn-around time is actually shorter (by about 5 min.). They also have shown 100% dispatch reliability of the -300. Perhaps this may sway new costomers.

I really don't think the 757-300 is a good aircraft for American, or United. This aircraft was specifically designed for high-capacity, single class/charter operations. Also, both UA & AA operate the 767-200, which has compatable capacity of the 757-300, as well as offering much more comfort. United uses 757s on west coast routes to the HA islands, mainly to Lihue and Kona. These are not very dense route; the 757-200 is perfect. United also flies 767s to the HA islands, on routes in between the DC-10 and 757. No need for the -300. If American needed an aircrft to fill-in between the A300 and 757, I'm sure they would opt for the 767-200. Hawaiian's routes to the south pacific islands do not require an aircraft with such capacity as the 757-300.

Jim
 
flyaa757
Posts: 861
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 1999 7:12 am

Capt Fantastic

Thu Aug 12, 1999 5:45 am

I suggested the 753 because it offeres the same pax capacity and better economy of the 762. On Hawaiian routes, airlines dont seem to care too much about pax comfort. Cargo capacity doesnt seem to be so important either.

Also, currently HAWAIIAN flies DC1010s to the south pacific. If they can fly a DC10, surely a smaller 757-300 would fit.
 
Navion
Posts: 1059
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:52 am

How About 757-300F?

Thu Aug 12, 1999 6:07 am

Wouldn't the 757-300 make a good freighter considering most cargo aircraft cube out before they gross out? I would think the 757-300 would make a good complement to the 757-200 which has proven to be a good freighter and which companies have bought new.
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 3991
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

DL 604

Thu Aug 12, 1999 8:20 am

I see the 757-300 as the replacement for the 767-200 non ER, the very first version of the 767 which came out nearly two decades ago.
The 737-300's, 400's and 500's will soon be out of production, that's true. Probably in 2001. But I think that the 757-200 will still be in production for another few years, the 767-300ER as well. When you said 763, I think you probalby meant the 767-300 non ER, which Delta has. You forgot to mention the 767-200 but I assume that the 200 non ER is now out of production (well yes it is still being built but only for the military, not for airlines). The 767-200ER will probably be out of production once Continental has received all 10 aircrafts ordered. But I'm telling you that the 767-300ER is still very young and will be in production for years to come. And aren't you forgetting the 747? Yes sure the 747-100, 200, 300, and SP are out of production but the 400 is still being built.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium
Ben Soriano

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