wadha
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2000 7:22 am

Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sun Jan 20, 2002 3:17 pm

I work as a gate agent in Dubai international airport. Dnata is the company within the Emirates airlines that usually regulate airport operations and customer service. I have noticed that all european carriers provide their best service to our area, such as BA operating their best 777, Lufthansa their newest A340's, Swissair the new A330's, KLM their 767's and so on.. now why is it only for Airfrance that they operate the A310's for the route? i mean many people are taking Emirates to connect in paris .. but, Airfrance are always giving us here hard time.

i tried to find an explanation, and i was told by some one who is within Emirates high administration, he said that the french are not wanting us to add an additional flight to paris rather than the daily operated one.

what is wrong with AF and the french?
 
yqfca
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:35 am

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sun Jan 20, 2002 3:27 pm

Air France has to protect its market share to avoid going the way of Sabena and Swissair.
Like it once said in Air Transport World about EEC and their governments giving unauthorized financial assistance to their flag carriers.
Without it, Air France would last between 4 and 6 moths.
I have to add, this was a number of years ago.
 
od-bwh
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sun Jan 20, 2002 3:39 pm

First, for Yqfca, I think you're exaggerrating a little bit. Air France is passing thru financial hardships, this is true, and has been so for a relatively long period! However, resturcturing plans that were carried out are hoped to ease some of the troubles taking place.

As for Wadha: it's not a matter of "prestige" to operate large and new aircraft to any destination. You can't compare BA in DXB to AF. I think the only reason AF is sending the "small" A310 (although in Lebanon we call these large aircraft  Smile ) is that it seems that the carrier doesn't have a good market there. Add to this the financial troubles at AF.

AF operates 3 flights daily to Beirut (in cooperation with MEA: two for MEA and one for AF). However, some flights are cancelled and others combined with a single flight, altough the Lebanese market is a good one for the French.
A300, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A346, A388, B734, B738, B744, B772, B773, B788, F70, MD11, CRJ700
 
od-bwh
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sun Jan 20, 2002 3:40 pm

and by the way,
starting Feb, you will never see the AF A310s. Coz these will be retired and will be replaced either by A340, or hopefully, the A330-200s.
A300, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A346, A388, B734, B738, B744, B772, B773, B788, F70, MD11, CRJ700
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sun Jan 20, 2002 3:47 pm

According to OAG the A340's are already flying to Dubai. DXB is very important to AF, there's a lot of rich people travelling between Paris and Dubai. Most luxury groups (LVMH, L'Oreal,Clarins,etc) have their Middle Eastern base here in Dubai. In fact my sister works for L'Oreal and there's always a model or a GM flying on AF. That's why EK want to fly double daily to CDG!
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sun Jan 20, 2002 3:52 pm

Marhaba Wadha,

I'd be interested in loads for different airlines, and how they are doing in Dubai. Of course provided you don't mind!

Thanks,
Marco in Dubai!
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
mightyfalcon
Posts: 378
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2001 5:46 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sun Jan 20, 2002 5:12 pm

Hi Wahda,

Your memories are playing games with you: Have you already forgotten that, not so long ago, BAW was operating B763s to Dubai, SWR had A313s and DLH A306s?

They all upgraded their services because newer planes were available: BAW is now using B772s, SWR A332s and DLH A342s. AFR is going to follow the trend and, as their A313s are to be all retired shortly, will be starting flying to Dubai with their newest acquisition, the A330-200.

As for extra EK flights to Paris, there's no open skies agreement between Dubai and France, as far as I know. On another hand, AFR has agreements with GFA, so may be GFA is pushing behind? Therefore, any additional EK flight will have to be hardly negociated. Don't take me wrong, I'm not saying here that this is the right way to do it, it's just the way it is.

One more thing, I would appreciate if people stop "putting everybody in the same bag": It's not because you had a bad experience with french crews that every french national is looking alike. This is true for any other nationality. People tend to generalise when having bad experiences and... they're often wrong. If I had do so everytime I had a bad experience with people from other nationalities, gee I'd hate almost everybody (including french)!

Regards
MightyFalcon
The sky has no limit...
 
mightyfalcon
Posts: 378
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2001 5:46 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sun Jan 20, 2002 5:43 pm

Wadha,

My apologies for misspelling your name.

Regards
MightyFalcon
The sky has no limit...
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sun Jan 20, 2002 7:02 pm

I think the French government is not doing the right thing by not giving EK the authority to fly more than five times a week. Why? Because the UAE government let's AF fly to Dubai on a daily basis (with A340 aircraft, not A310), and should AF want to increase the amount of flights into DXB they are allowed to, so why shouldn't EK have that freedom? Wouldn't it be fair?
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sun Jan 20, 2002 7:11 pm

Air France will be placing the new A330 on their Dubai route in the future, I also worked for AF at Karachi briefly and according to an official magazine of the company they were planning to use the 777 to Dubai but Sept 11th changed all that Smile

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Philippe noret

.....up there with the best!
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sun Jan 20, 2002 7:57 pm

hi

Let me please clarify things
not only EK is flying to CDG (where it's been allowed recently to increase frequencies) but it's flying also to NCE (Nice)
you seem to forget also, the DXB region is more than reasonably served : GF (AUH-BAH) and QR (DOH)are also flying to CDG!!

so to sum it up why should we allow EK to double its service out of CDG while GF and QR are also servicing the region and while AF is the ONLY french carrier flying to DXB once daily? where is the reciprocity?? what's to gain for us?
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sun Jan 20, 2002 9:26 pm

I'm talking about Dubai, where EK is based and not Abu Dhabi. Believe me, there's a difference.

Also, if AF wanted to fly 7 times a day to Dubai the government of Dubai would let them, so why put restrictions on EK?
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
Sonic
Posts: 1505
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 3:10 am

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Mon Jan 21, 2002 12:51 am

Lithuanian Airlines used to fly to Dubai with Yakovlev Yak-42 until they cancelled the route. They did a refueling stop in Burgas. It had to be one of the oldest airliners in Dubai  Smile .

This is a photo of LAL Yak-42 in Dubai:


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Manfred Saitz

 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Mon Jan 21, 2002 1:18 am

I do understand there's a difference between DXB and neighbors
but 3 foreign airlines serving DXB-BAH-AUH-DOH : to us , all these airports are in "the arab emirates" whether the name is Qatar or emirates or whatever; so there's an imbalance in term of airlines serving a given population: the emirates population being big time smaller than french population, an increase of EK flight is seen as only a way to serve DXB hub, in order to compete with AF lines to some areas...to my mind that's were our authorities don't give more rights to EK
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Mon Jan 21, 2002 1:40 am

I forgot to mention : when it was authorized to increase flights on CDG, EK publicly announced its aim was to feed the DXB hub to better serve,among others, the Aussie market - ok, AF doesn't fly there - but AF pax to Australia are flown thru AF flights to HKG or BKK.
maybe that is one reason why EK isn't given other rights....
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
airfrancejfk
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 1:05 am

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:36 am

You cannot base your entire perception of AF simply on its performance at one station, especially when that station is a rather small one. As I understand it, the DXB route is not as lucrative as say for example, Cairo or Beirut, or even Damascus. The A-310's are reserved for less high yield routes, as is the case with DXB. This is simply airline marketing. Without it, AF would be in the same boat as Sabena and Swissair.
 
mightyfalcon
Posts: 378
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2001 5:46 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:38 am

I wouldn't like to say anything wrong but I think Dubai has an open skies policy; whoever wants to fly to Dubai is allowed to do so. It's a great idea, bringing lots of different airlines and therefore pax into Dubai, city and airport. This is serving the emirate quite well.

On another hand, it's not a good reason enough to expect the same policy from other countries which have to deal with far more competition. I guess France is not the only european country denying EK some extra slots at major airports.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards
MightyFalcon
The sky has no limit...
 
fly_emirates
Posts: 970
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 11:22 am

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:59 am

varig-md-11

Doha (DOH) is in a totally different country! i mean , dont you people realize these things before realizing wrong answers!
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

Fly_emirates

Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:05 pm

As I told everybody before, I'm perfectly aware that DOH is in another country
I'm no fool  Angry
my point was there are 4 cities from the gulf connected to CDG....and when you total the population of these 4 cities, it is ridiculous compared to the 60M people in France
so,my humble conclusion was that I didn't see the point to give extra rights to EK if it wasn't to feed their DXB hub,which they admitted, and which result would be taking bread from AF's mouth

for example when SQ ,from Singapore, meaning the LION CITY, in the far-east at the south of Malaysia  Big grin went from a daily A340 to the B744, french authorities demanded to reduce freq. for exactly these reasons

oh by the way,as a senior customs off. at CDG1 ,I should know a thing or 2 about the gulf and their pax and their airlines and their countries....

AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
BBADXB
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 11:13 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Mon Jan 21, 2002 11:21 pm

With all due respect, Varig md-11, I think that your argument is not well-founded:

Using your argument, LH, BA, AF, OS, AZ, (AY), etc. (airlines from the EU memberstates)..., then make up one sort of airlines from 'one block of countries' 'cos they are all in the EU, and there's a lot of things that IN THIS CASE kind of make the EU one block (you might know better than myself about this, 'cos you're French and France is a EU memberstate)!

With regards to DXB being a hub for onward/inbound connecting traffic to/from Oz, is it the case that AF does not sell tickets for AF flights to pax. from DXB who want to fly on to North America, South America and other smaller destinations (in Europe, certain parts of Africa, & elsewhere) and v.v.?? I do not think so.

With regards to the EK flights to Nice, I think that DXB is not the only AF destination in the UAE... I have the impression that AF flies to AUH too, though I stand to be corrected on this point. So in this case, it is also a case of being on an equal footing, ...but what's maybe tilting the scale is (and here I stand to be corrected) that DXB has an openskies policy, whereas at CDG, things are different.

Of course, if Dubai has an openskies policy, whilst France does not, the French people are sovereign too, and they are free to go for this policy, 'cos after all, they are as sovereign as any other state.

So I think that the crux of the argument is that AF and perhaps (probably) with the 'backing' of the French authorities, fear the strong competition that EK would introduce whilst adding more services. This, in my opinion, is yet another case of protectionism.

Rgds.,
BBADXB  Wink/being sarcastic



 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 3:04 am

I agree with you BBADXB !

AF and the french authorities don't want EK to take the bread from the mouth of AF

once again , when I'm speaking of "block" of countries, have in mind the total population we're dealing with
I 'm sure that's what the french authorities have in mind.

don't you think that would be artificial to have DXB-CDG twice a day on EK with an A332?
I regularly make checks on pax going out of the EK flight at the gate : when EK served Comoroes islands, their clients were big time Comorians. Now they don't fly there anymore their pax are mainly "whites" (not gulf area people) connecting at DXB from/to other place....

that's all I'm trying to explain: the gulf market is overserved already....and our authorities don't want to give DXB authorities opportunity to feed their hub more out of CDG
so call it protectionism if you want...but it sounds a bit logical to me
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
AOMlover
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:03 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 6:31 am

Couldn't EK improve the NCE destination ?
People could take the plane from Paris or other cities to NCE and then jump in an EK A332 to Dubai. And Italian people from Torino, or Napoli could go to Dubai from NCE which is not so far from these cities...
 
BBADXB
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 11:13 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Fri Feb 01, 2002 10:26 pm

Hi, People!

Just back from Spain... !Hombre! !Que guay! !Que bien!

I think that it is impractical to go all the way down to Nice to catch the plane from there when you have so much better (less hassling) opportunties from Paris... and ...Napoli is in the South of Italy, South of Rome! So I do not think people will travel all the way to Nice to catch the EK flight from there when EK already serves FCO.

...And btw, what a nice lady... the EK A330-200 at FCO on Tuesday 29th January 2002... Those EK colours really FLY (  Smile )!

Rgds.,
BBADXB  Wink/being sarcastic

 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:57 am

Wadha

To answer your question of your header -

Because they are French!
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
AOMlover
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:03 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sat Feb 02, 2002 1:53 am

Very good joke Carduelis.
I hope it's a joke, because if no I wonder how old you are, and how stupid you are. You should know French better before saying such stupid things... Pitoyable !
 
AOMlover
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:03 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sat Feb 02, 2002 1:56 am

A last thing: don't forget that in this forum there are lots of people from different countries, so to keep this forum a peaceful place, please avoid such bad taste jokes.
 
747forever
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:00 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sat Feb 02, 2002 4:45 am

LOL nice one Carduelis, i was about to say the same thing, beat me to it

Ahh well, i'm sure there'll be plenty more opportunities to make jokes at the expense of the French, i'm off to the garden to eat some snails!!

Jeff.
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sat Feb 02, 2002 5:39 am

AOMlover

Honi Soit Que Mal Y Pense

Just look at the Waha's header line again - isn't that just crying out for comment?

Bon soir

Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
AOMlover
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:03 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sat Feb 02, 2002 6:12 am

I prefer eating snails than English food which is really shit (sorry).
Do u want more ?
Bonne nuit
 
747forever
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:00 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sat Feb 02, 2002 6:46 am

Hey man, cool it, i'm only having a laugh, i bet there's millions of jokes bout us brits going round in france, it's just life,

cheers,

Jeff.
 
AOMlover
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:03 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sat Feb 02, 2002 7:02 am

OK, sorry...
To forgive me, let's go eating some frogs !  Wink/being sarcastic
 
747forever
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:00 pm

RE: Why Is Airfrance Being So Proud For Nothing?

Sat Feb 02, 2002 7:48 am

thats the spirit mate, frogs it is

Cheers,

Jeff.