hkg_clk
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London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Mon Jan 21, 2002 11:42 pm

I think this has been done before on delivery flights etc where there are no passengers. With the introduction of new planes like the A340-500 and 777-200LR, would this be possible with passengers?

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Boeing Nut
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Mon Jan 21, 2002 11:47 pm

I don't think even these long legged birds can make this trip non-stop. Although I have seen where Boeing may possibly develope a 10,000 nm Sonic Cruiser. This could make it I believe. Although I rather doubt that this willl happen. The number of aircraft would be very limited. I don't think that it would be economically feasible to produce this aircraft. Time will tell though.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Mon Jan 21, 2002 11:55 pm

I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Mon Jan 21, 2002 11:58 pm

A QF 744 once did London - Sydney non stop with very limited passengersl and luggage. I guess it was rather full in the fuel department !!!

From what I remember they even towed the aircraft to the runway !.

 
Boeing Nut
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:06 am

Hi Spotter,

Yep, your right on that one. I actually remember that. Since the 744 is my favorite all time aircraft, I was pretty excited about it. But the passenger load was sad.  Smile I think there was a total of 23 people on baord that flight. Grant it, it was a delivery flight, but 23 people on a 744? Bet they had thier choice of seats and meals.  Big thumbs up
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:06 am

Lets suppose an aircraft like the 777LR is capable of doing London-Sydney with a full load of pax and cargo. But who would want to sit in a plane for 21 hours non-stop?

Wouldn't that be a risk to some people's healths?

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:10 am

Would it be 21 hours ??, If you take away the stop in SIN / BKK / HKG and fly the most direct route I'm sure you could get the time down.
 
TR
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:21 am

The shortest possible route is app. 9.200 nautical miles (17.000 kms)! This does not take any consideration to airspace restrictions etc. etc. With a 'normal' aircraft cruising at 800-900 kms per hour the flying time would be between 19 and 21 hours roughly. I am not sure that I´d like to spend that amount of time non-stop in an aircraft and I´m sure that FA and pilot unions will have something to say to that as well.
 
9V-SPF
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:26 am

The distance between LHR and SYD is 10549 miles. If you compare this with a different flight in the same direction, for example LHR-SIN, which takes 12 1/2 hours at 6764 miles distance, you can come to the conclusion that a nonstop flight between London and Sydney would take about 19 1/2 hours.
Almost 20 hours on board of an airplane in Coach Class?
I would prefer a stop, even if the journey took me 5 hours more.
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:26 am

CO 098 / 099 spends almost 16 hours in the air.
 
777kicksass
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 3:11 am

Aahh but the Sonic Cruiser saves an hour every 3000 miles thats 16 or 17 hours which is much more bearable. I think this saving verifies their high subsonic speed.
 
Mr.BA
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:25 am

The B744 is my all time favourite too.  Smile The Qantas B744 (VH-OJA) was towed to the runway and started it's engines there and took off from there. Not too sure about the load but it carried full fuel that's for sure. I think this was one attempt to Qantas to break a record, not too sure which record. Yes, it broke the record, but an MAS B777 broke it again flying Seattle to KL non-stop.

alvin
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AI744LR
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:43 am

Yes, and I think I read that that QF 744 almost had to change plans towards the end of its flight. However in the end, the winds made it possible for the longest 744 flight to make the record books.

cheers
 
David_itl
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:45 am

I believe they were absolute minimum of facilities on board...very few seats were in it! Part of the passenger load was made up of a children's TV crew for the BBC programme "Record Breakers".

David
 
hkg_clk
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:52 pm

I'm not sure if I'm correct, but I think the CX flights from Toronto to Hong Kong which used to stop at Anchorage (now Vancouver) took about 20 hours. And passengers weren't allowed to leave the plane during the refuelling stop. If that's right, staying on a plane for 20 hours is feasible! Perhaps that's because of CX's excellent service and the comfortable interior of their 340s?


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Trvlr
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:06 am

I believe the 777-200LR will be able to make LHR-PER nonstop, but not LHR-SYD.

Aaron G.
 
BBD
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:34 am

If Boeing were to go ahead with its subsonic cruiser, and if it were to produce an economical, long range version, capable of flying LHR-SYD non-stop, I believe that it could have a dramatic effect on the market, particularly at the top end (ie business end) of the market, and could be quite appealing to QF.
As indicated in previous messages, a flight time of 16 hours, which would be nudging the outer limits of current non-stop flights, is quite feasible: current timetables show a total flying time from LHR to SYD via SIN of about 21.25hours (excluding the stopover); taking out the effect of the descent and takeoff, together with a straightening (shortening) of the flightpath that could be possible as there would be no need to fly directly over SIN, could possibly reduce this to about 20 hours. A further reduction of about 20%, due to the faster speed (as initially claimed by Boeing), could see this then drop to about 16 hours - a total savings of about 7 hours (including the stopover), or about 30%, on the current time.
This would mean arriving in SYD "1-3 hours after leaving LHR", depending on the seasons and daylight saving regimes:
LHR [+1] dp: 1800
SYD [+10] ar: 1900(+1)
Going the other way, flying time would be a bit longer (about 17 hours):
SYD [+10] dp: 1000
LHR [+1] ar: 1800
I believe that the savings in time, as well as the more favourable travel logistics that it would create, would be appealing to a fair section of the business market which would be prepared to pay a premium for such a service.
Indeed, the possibility of non-stop services from Australia to Europe, eliminating the need to go via SIN, was (and probably still is) one of the main motivations - perhaps the motivation - for SQ wanting to buy into AN, so that it too, indirectly, could offer such a service.
Other non-stop long haul possibilities for QF could be SYD-JFK, where the current flying time of about 20.50 hours (including the stopover at LAX) could be reduced to about 15 hours non-stop.
 
BCal Dc10
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:40 am

that flight from London to Sydney took 20 hours, 9 minutes and 5 seconds, which is a long time to go without a stop.
It was a special plane, modified I believe for the publicity stunt. However I seem to remember it actually had enough fuel to carry onto Melbourne... but it didn't, just to be on the safe side.
 
gerardo
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Wed Jan 23, 2002 1:14 am

Airbus did the same with their "Long Ranger" flight. They flew round the world Paris-Auckland-Paris, but I don't remember the flight time.

Of course, no pax were aboard but a rather full fuel tank.

Gerardo
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hkg_clk
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Thu Jan 24, 2002 10:21 pm

Did Airbus use the 340 for their 'Longer Ranger' flight? Also, which series?
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Boeing Nut
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Thu Jan 24, 2002 10:28 pm

Regarding the Qantas 744 record flight, I thought that they had plenty of fuel left. I recall hearing that they actually had two hours of fuel left.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
b0047
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Thu Jan 24, 2002 10:29 pm

I believe they used a company plane, an A340 named "The World Ranger", it flew into the Paris Air Show on July 18th 1993. It was a one stop around the world flight lasting 48 hours, 22min. It also set a record for longest distance by an airliner - Auckland-Paris 10,392nm.

Nick
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Thu Jan 24, 2002 10:34 pm

LH did a FRA-HNL nonstop in 92, before the 342 entered pax service.
Daniel Smile
 
Konstantinos
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Fri Jan 25, 2002 2:05 am

I wouldn't mind flying non-stop from LON to SYD in 20 - 21 hrs, IF it was a 747-400 with the lower deck configured in C class type seating, say 2+3+2 and the upper deck as a bar lounge.
 
hkg_clk
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Fri Jan 25, 2002 8:28 am

If an A340-500 or 777LR were configured with only F and C class seats, would that be light enough for it to get to Sydney from London?

I think such a plane could be viable. I think a lot of business people would be very keen to save a few hours on this route. And with C and F class, they'll be able to sleep all the way anyway.
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qantas744
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RE: London - Sydney Non-Stop - Will This Be Possible?

Fri Jan 25, 2002 8:40 am

Although LHR-SYD non stop might be a good idea for some people,I'm not sure if QF or BA would see it that way.Those two airlines codeshare on the 'kanagaroo' route using SIN as a hub-flying directly to SYD or MEL would mean BA dropping 12 flights a week to SIN,and 19 flights a week if you include the codeshares.

The last time I flew SYD-LHR I deliberately chose to have a stopover in SIN because I didn't want to spend 22 hours on a 744,it's not so bad if it's broken up into two flights.


Matt
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