SJCguy
Topic Author
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:39 pm

Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 6:54 am

This topic stems off of the topic "Screening every bag? Don't let them fool you".

I honestly am sorta tierd of hearing these kids on here (and adults) commenting on the security of the airports. They aren't even comments and opinions, they are just outspoken remarks about somthing they have no clue about.

People talking about airlines lying to passengers about bags being searched is bullsh**. If you are told that every bag is being searched, then that airline is searching every bag at some point, for however long, with whatever resources, be it dogs, machines, or employees.

Seriously, when we get passengers who act like they know it all, who complain about this and that about the security issues, etc. it just looks dumb, and it's not tolerated anymore by anybody at the airport. What you post on here is a different story, but remember that there are airline employees in this forum that read your topics and remarks and roll their eyes because you sound just like every other passenger out there who doesn't have a clue.

If you don't work for an airline, which many of you don't, just fly with a sealed mouth. Arrive early, check in, wait in the lines, board the plane, and sit the fu** down.

I went to Vegas last night for a couple hours to meet up with some friends. On my flight out there, as I was sitting in the last row, a passenger comes to the back and complains to our flight attendant about being searched twice at the airport, and he just couldn't believe such a horrendous thing happened to him. Enough said about that..

I work for one of the most successful airlines in the industry, if not the most successful. Everything we have put into place has worked or will work. If you doubt what's being done at the airport with security, or if you just can't take being searched, don't fly. 5 airplanes have crashed in the US within 2 months. You better bet everything is being done to prevent Sept. 11 from happening all over again.

SJCguy
 
SEA nw DC10
Posts: 471
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RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:03 pm

I totally agree...however most people don't consider reality over their own opinions...

SEA nw DC10
 
Av8trxx
Posts: 632
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RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:27 pm

Ditto!
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 5:48 pm

People talking about airlines lying to passengers about bags being searched is bullsh**.

I know that refers to me. Yes, I said that. But, you fail to quote the important thing: Air Malta claimed to me that all checked baggage is X-RAYED, I repeat, X-RAYED at GZM, not simply searched. Now tell me how, if there isn't an x-ray machine at GZM to even scan carry-ons. If the e-mail I received said that all bags are SEARCHED, I would shut up. But since it said they are X-RAYED, I would really appreciate it if Air Malta could lead me down to GZM and show me where the invisible x-ray machine is.
That's all I have to say.
-turbolet
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 5:53 pm

If Air Malta can do that, I will publicly apologize to everyone on this forum. But if it is bullsh*t, as I still think, then I'd like everyone to agree that I have a point.
-turbolet
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 6:15 pm

Turbolet - what is your point? If you think the GZM heli service is unsafe all you have to do is take the boat. Do you think that AirMalta is going to give you a tour of how it conducts its security in GZM or at MLA? I don't know where you get your information from. I have my very serious doubts that any airline, AirMalta included, is going to answer you in writing if you ask how security is done. Isn't that what you are saying? But I will tell you something for sure. AirMalta will not lie to you or anybody else about these things. More so AirMalta will not bullshit you or anybody else about these things. There is too much at stake. All you are doing is trying to smear an airline with a perfect safety record that has been exonerated from the most serious of charges, including the Lockerbie affair. So why don't you leave this forum and go do what you do best - Look at Salesgirls !!
 
hisham
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 6:52 pm

Well don't be so sure of new security.
Here's my personal experience.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/699558/6/

Hisham.
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:09 pm

Hisham - Did you raise your security issue with the airline there and then? No of course not. Because, as you said, it worked out for you. Yet you come here on this forum and flame the airline. How convenient.
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:14 pm

Well said LMML 14/32...

Mike
 
Andreas
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

SJcGuy: Wow, Nice Posting, Just..

Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:11 pm

..what exactly are you trying to tell us??? It's not that clear actually. I may quote:

If you don't work for an airline, which many of you don't, just fly with a sealed mouth. Arrive early, check in, wait in the lines, board the plane, and sit the fu** down.

Hopefully that is not your real opinion, because if it is, I guess you didn't understand anything about how things work. Just don't forget that passengers pay for their tickets and thereby pay your salary. I find it rather funny that I as a rude and impolite German do have to tell that to a service-oriented American guy.
But I guess it is a misunderstanding, you tried to tell us something completely different, just, maybe, if you could tell us what that was...??
Regards
Andreas

btw: If any employee of any airline around the world would dare to tell me in the face, what I quoted from your posting, he/she would be up for a very unpleasant surprise never to be forgotten!!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
od-bwh
Posts: 312
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RE: LMML, ANZ

Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:25 pm

LMML and ANZ,
Hisham is not responsible-i beleive, to inform the airline, add to this, the airline has nothing to do with this! it's a security issue after all. Passengers are not supposed to correct mistakes done by airline employees... at least guess so.
A300, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A346, A388, B734, B738, B744, B772, B773, B788, F70, MD11, CRJ7, CRJ2, Q400
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:30 pm

Safety and security is everybody's concern. Indeed, it starts as the passenger is packing is bag in his home miles away from the airport. How many of you know what should and should not go in your luggage? People still put cameras and documents and pressurised aerosol cans in their checked bags.

OM-BWH said: Passengers are not supposed to correct mistakes done by airline employees... at least guess so.

Well, you guess incorrectly. Let me give you an example. Say you are sitting in an airplane in flight and you don't have cutlery on your tray. What do you do? Do you just say "This is not my responsibility" and simply eat with your hands, or would you call the FA's and ask for what you need? My guess, my dear friend, is that you would do the latter. So why would you simply shrug off a security breach? After all security personnel are human beings and as such are not infallible. I would thank you for pointing something out. Passengers are even expected to help in an emergency. Would you shrug this off as not your responsibility also?

Did the pax on UA93 think like you? No the did not. And they prevented a greater tragedy. They are the real heroes.
 
od-bwh
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

RE: LMML, SJCguy

Tue Jan 22, 2002 10:24 pm

Of course everyone is supposed point out for miskates. Plz don't misunderstand me.

If you- I mean you, since u know what you packed, passed a security point without being checked, will you get back and ask them to search you? Let me answer this, NO. Besides, how did you know that Hisham didn't raise this issue with the airline?

For SJCguy... plz try to post in a non-hostile method  Big grin Others would respect your point if you treat 'em alike... Just omit the astericks ** from your post.

have a nice flight
OD-BWH

A300, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A346, A388, B734, B738, B744, B772, B773, B788, F70, MD11, CRJ7, CRJ2, Q400
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 10:53 pm

LMML 14/32:

AirMalta will not lie to you or anybody else about these things.
So where the hell is that x-ray machine then? And why can't I, a paying passenger who provides employment for a bunch of people at the heliport, flight attendants and Mi-8 pilots, know what exactly is going on? Why am I made to believe something when the truth is probably completely different? Don't I have a right to know?

All you are doing is trying to smear an airline with a perfect safety record that has been exonerated from the most serious of charges, including the Lockerbie affair.
You got my point totally wrong. I am concerned about the safety of flying from Malta to Gozo. And I simply want proof of Air Malta's claim that baggage is x-rayed. That's all.

Now since you came in here trying to destroy my arguments today and last Friday you said you were going to ask Air Malta, I suppose they told you that baggage isn't x-rayed at GZM so you're trying to beat around the bush and shirk off the whole question.

So why don't you leave this forum and go do what you do best - Look at Salesgirls !!
If you don't mind, leave my salesgirls to myself - they're my concern. It will be appreciated.

-turbolet
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

SJCguy

Tue Jan 22, 2002 11:05 pm

just fly with a sealed mouth. Arrive early, check in, wait in the lines, board the plane, and sit the fu** down.

What fucking balls you have.

If this is your real prevailing attitude, then your sorry ass should be thrown right out of the airport terminal onto onto the street with the taxis and busses.

As mentioned in another post, Sept11, or not the customers pay your salary. It works both ways pal. It's one thing to be safety conscious. It's quite another for you to be barking out orders like that.

I think I'll get in touch with FlyGGA and SJCAlien and see if they can find out who you are, and maybe a chat with your supervisor is in order....assuming of course that you aren't really some ballsy little high school student.

 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 11:14 pm

Turbolet: What I am questioning is actually your claim that you have a written statement from AirMalta about security proceedures in GZM. I did make some enquiries. And even I, as an airline employee, was only told what I need to know. And I got the information by word of mouth as the officer in charge would not give me anything in writing either - something which I can understand and am not disputing. That is why I am surprised, and quite frankly do not beleive you have anything in writing yourself. Yes, I am told that the bags are somehow screened in GZM. And this is done to the satisfaction of both the airline and the Director of Civil Aviation (DCA).
If you think that as a paying passenger you have a right to know exactly what is going on then I have news for you buddy. YOU DON'T !! You only get what you pay for - a safe and convenient flight. When you give the airline your money it means that you trust that airline. If you don't I will tell you again - take the boat.

OD-BWH said: If you- I mean you, since u know what you packed, passed a security point without being checked, will you get back and ask them to search you? Let me answer this, NO.
I couldn't agree more. Do you willingly put a pair of scissors in your bag hoping they will find it? NO. But if they don't then you will most likely brag about it. Look at this forum. It is full of statements like this.

 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Tue Jan 22, 2002 11:23 pm

That is why I am surprised, and quite frankly do not beleive you have anything in writing yourself.
Unfortunately, this e-mail was received to my former web based e-mail account, mnemec@obora.com, which no longer exists, it expired in August. But if Air Malta holds records, I'm sure they will find the message they sent me. It could have been somewhere around May 2001, sent to mnemec@obora.com. I should have known better and saved a copy on my hard disk, back then I only laughed and dismissed everything.
I am not surprised that the Director of Civil Aviation (DCA) is satisfied with what happens at GZM, it is enough to fly through MLA, see the farce they make at the security checkpoint and you would think the DCA would be happy enough with gorillas doing the job.

If you think that as a paying passenger you have a right to know exactly what is going on then I have news for you buddy. YOU DON'T !! You only get what you pay for - a safe and convenient flight.
Okay, you are claiming it is not Air Malta's responsibility to tell me what happens. But nowadays, after all that's happened, wouldn't it only be to Air Malta's advantage if the passengers were actually shown proof that there is some security going on? I'm not saying telling them exactly what is going on, but it definitely wouldn't hurt the pax's sense of safety if baggage at GZM was x-rayed visibly, on the contrary.
As for the safe and convenient flight. The safety is what we're currently discussing. And as for convenience, I'd better not go into the pricing and timing of helicopter services. To tell you quite frankly, I would prefer to take the boat which I usually do anyway.
-turbolet
 
Andreas
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

MattD: Exactly My Point...

Tue Jan 22, 2002 11:32 pm

...a few postings up. Just tell me the outcome!
Regards
Andreas
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Wed Jan 23, 2002 1:30 am

Trubolet: Baggage screening is a serious business and not a public show. Forget about any airline/airport showing the public how it is done.
Too bad you lost the Airmalta letter you claim to have received.
Isn't MIA (Malta Int'l Airport) the entity responsible for security at Malta's airports? How come you said you received a letter from AirMalta? The best they may have replied would be to refer your inquiry to MIA don't you think? Another reason why I don't think such a letter ever existed.

....see the farce they make at the security checkpoint and you would think the DCA would be happy enough with gorillas doing the job.

You have crossed the fine line between a decent discussion an unwarranted slander. I don't know why I ever bothered with this in the first place. Here's my advice, boy: Get busy growing up and leave the serious business to the real men.


 
zionstrat
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 3:26 am

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:04 am

To twist the subject just a bit, what I always wonder is if this is really relevant anyway? Sure, it looks like most of the problems on 9/11 came in on the passenger side, but everyone who has ever worked on the ground knows how easy it is to do just about anything you want, whenever you want to, and most of these folks are making about $14 an hour.

The 9/11 terrorists certainly weren’t stupid and if they strike again, they are bound to look for the other opportunities out there- Can anyone respond to any major changes in security for baggage handlers, maintenance, etc, that keeps this from being the prime opportunity for future aviation terrorism?
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:13 am

Security and the changes effected will not be discussed by the airlines and/or security entities. That would be giving away the trade secret don't you think?
 
zionstrat
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 3:26 am

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:43 am

LMML 14/32- I’m not trying to be difficult, but are you implying that they aren't talking right now? Seems like making noise about the pax side is all they do these days!

I'm not talking about going into details; I'm talking about making it clear that the ground is a priority and that change is underway. They are so far behind on the ground that it is far more reassuring for them talk about the changes on the passenger side, but this puts no pressure on them to do the much harder job.

My previous question was rhetorical, the best I can tell there are no MAJOR changes on the ground side. Although hiring is a bit tighter, the bottom line is you can still find drug whacked baggage handlers who really need money at practically every airport (they do it to handle the boredom and often brag about their ability to perform under the influence). The current system promotes lots of idle unsupervised time, and there is no better opportunity for a terrorist with lots of cash.

I believe change on the ground side will require a complete rethinking of how we define these roles, how cross checks, supervision and reporting can create a less dangerous "two-man" type environment (i.e. nuclear material is never left with a single person, knowing that it is harder to bribe 2 than 1), and how we can look for problems before they exist- I hate to think that it will take another disaster via the other side of the equation before anyone is willing to take on this difficult issue.
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Wed Jan 23, 2002 4:46 am

Baggage screening is a serious business and not a public show. Forget about any airline/airport showing the public how it is done.
Well under the new programme introduced in the US of A, the CTX machines are located inside the terminal, in the pax area.

Too bad you lost the Airmalta letter you claim to have received.
Isn't MIA (Malta Int'l Airport) the entity responsible for security at Malta's airports? How come you said you received a letter from AirMalta? The best they may have replied would be to refer your inquiry to MIA don't you think? Another reason why I don't think such a letter ever existed.

I e-mailed my question to Air Malta. I received an answer and, although it's a few months, I remember this quote: 'As far as we are concerned all baggage is x-rayed at GZM...'. Why they didn't hand over my enquiry to MIA beats me, it would have saved them from this discussion even arising. Yet I repeat: if Air Malta holds archives of e-mail sent and received, you are sure to find my message and the reply to it there. Although unfortunately you make me think that if this message was found, the company would do its best to delete it and wipe away all traces.

....see the farce they make at the security checkpoint and you would think the DCA would be happy enough with gorillas doing the job.

You have crossed the fine line between a decent discussion an unwarranted slander.


No, it is experts who state that security at MIA leaves a lot to be desired. Again, I back up my statement by a link to the Times of Malta, letters section, 26th Sep 2001. http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=70363&hilite=mia+security


Lack of security at airport
Bryn Elliott, Essex, England.

Having just returned from a highly enjoyable short holiday in the Maltese islands, I was surprised at the marked lack of security at MIA in comparison with that in other major international airports. As my flight was subject to a major flight delay, I was in a position to study the security measures at leisure over an eight-hour period. As a former London police officer with 30 years experience of a range of anti-terrorist measures, I do have a little passing knowledge of this matter. Do not misunderstand me, there are many security staff evident in the terminal at MIA. But it is not numbers that count, but experience and effectiveness. I was not the only regular British air passenger to voice doubts over many glaring omissions. Abandoned luggage and parcels unchallenged, cursory filtering of potential passengers prior to the booking in desks, less than strict body checks, unguarded security doors, etc. Security messages to the international travelling public, usually transmitted every few minutes in London, were restricted to no more than one an hour and there were only six of these in the eight hours. Adequate for August 2001 perhaps but certainly not good enough for today in the light of New York. Clearly, The Times is not the organ in which to detail each element of poor security, but I will be contacting the authorities directly on this matter. It may be that it is 'not my business', but as a traveller I feel it is.


Here's my advice, boy: Get busy growing up and leave the serious business to the real men.
Firstly, thank you very much for discriminating me by age. Secondly, thank you for removing me from your respected users list, I have done likewise. But allow me to tell you that your 24-year-long career (am I right in the number?) with Air Malta has blinded you to any possible faults it might have. After all, it is run by humans so there can be some mistakes in its running at times. But once you go to heaven, I am sure Mr Grech will bring you a double serving of rice with curry (what used to be the standard meal on the RJ-70) every day.  Big grin
I appreciate your advice, I am currently studying Pure Maths and English at advanced level and I eventually plan to pursue a job in the airline industry. Let's hope I manage so that I can make my preachings about security reality so that everyone can judge whether I am right or not.

-turbolet



 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Wed Jan 23, 2002 4:57 am

There once was a teenager who was amazed that his father knew so little.
When he became a mature 21, he was even more amazed how much his father had learned.
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
hisham
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Bag Searching And Security At Our Airports

Wed Jan 23, 2002 5:00 am

I didn't trash the airline. I didn't even mention it.
If sept. 11 and the "shoe bomb" didn't have an effect on their security procedures, I doubt an email to the airline is gonna change things. That wasn't a mistake by one employee. The check-in agent went and asked her superior. Then, the same thing happened in a different airport.
So yeah, theoretically you're right I should have contacted the airline. But do you really think it would have made a difference?

Hisham.

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