AC320
Topic Author
Posts: 2809
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Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:03 am

Air Canada, as many other airlines, has fallen on hard times. with losses mounting, popularity (especially out west) falling to levels unseen since Joe clark and Brian Mulroney, and still competion from Westjet, which is moving closer and closer to AC's Eastern fortress hubs. It's obvious the airline is in need of change to pull itself up out of the hole. I'm curious as too what my fellow Canadian users think can be done to raise Air Canada to the level it should be as our nation's flag carrier.

My ideas are pretty light, since I'm not as familiar with AC's operational structure as some of you, and don't extend far beyond ousting David Collinette and Robert Milton.

Personally, I think Air Canada has the capability of being a 5-star carrier, that would give any other airline a run for their money in terms of service quality.

So what needs to be done?


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fuddle duddle
 
gmonney
Posts: 2076
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2001 2:59 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:09 am

Price and Service, the price is very high, I was looking on the internet to try and get tickets to LAS from YYZ in April and its $3,000+, do you think i am going to pay that? NO WAY.

When I went YYZ - MIA about a year and a half ago and I was not impressed with the service. I think I actually got better service on a Royal flight to LAS two years ago!!!! One of the AC F/A is an old bitch, nothing like what I have heard about SSV!!!! I would like to see some youth and great attitudes on these flights!!

I'm sure there is more, but thats my 2 cents

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
AC320
Topic Author
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RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:12 am

you know whats funny? I've never had a problem with service or fares on AC.

This summer my MIA-YUL flight was $250 USD, with a pleasent flight crew,really friendly pilots, and a meal that was a chicken caesar salad, with a side order of macaroni in some sort of cream sauce. not bad for coach.

Maybe I'm just lucky?
fuddle duddle
 
gmonney
Posts: 2076
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2001 2:59 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:16 am

See, if there was a decent fare to go to vegas.....i would book, like $450-500, you know use a good carrier and go down....but its $3,000?

Any way, you will get better responses from employees i bet

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
AC320
Topic Author
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:18 am

Now I'm even more worried. The Westjet at YYZ thread continues to get more posts as this thread drifts farther and farther down. Guess Air Canada is also threatened on Airliners.net

Guess the virtual world really does mimic the real one.
fuddle duddle
 
polaris
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 7:03 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:32 am

Air Canada's problem is perception....and perception is reality. Their Public Relations Department could use a little help because they appear to be lost. The media should do a little more research before releasing so much incorrect info. A weak PR Dept coupled with sensationalist, and often incorrect, media reporting and you have a perception that a carrier is not competent.

If you look deeper, MOST Canadians to NOT have a problem with Air Canada. However, the few that do are the ones that make the most noise and receive the most attention. When do you ever hear a happy story about aviation? People are still scared to fly and the media, in order to get the public to read, listen, or watch, feed this fear.

Compare Air Canada to the WORLD'S other full-service carriers and they compare more than favourably. Canadian media often neglect the global perspective when judging Air Canada.

With regards to Las Vegas, Air Canada's current lowest RETURN fare from Toronto is $278 (CDN). For airfares on full service carriers, if you are fare-sensitive, ask for the lowest fare and the conditions attached to that fare. Then build your itinerary based on that fare. If you start with a travel date and time, then you will receive the lowest fare available for THAT date and time. Lower airfares could be sold out for that particular date however, because you have chosen a particular date, you will be quoted the lowest AVAILABLE fare for that date. A lower fare might still be available for the previous week or the following week. If you are fare-sensitive, you should be flexible. If you are time-sensitive, then you pay the premium.
 
Guest

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:12 am

Air Canada needs to focus on being one of the best performers in the mainline market. That means being at or near the top of the industry in North America in:

- Fewest complaints to the government proportionate to number of revenue passengers.

- Fewest mishandled bags proportionate to passengers.

- On-time performance, once the airlines have adapted to the new security measures.

- Lowest voluntary turnover, a useful indicator of staff morale.

If they can't hire Gordon Bethune away from Continental, they should at least take a look at how he turned around that airline, which was in much worse shape a decade ago than Air Canada has been post-9/11.

Instead, I fear they're at risk of being distracted by ventures like Zip, which won't do much about the factors above. The purpose of Zip might be to weaken Westjet and scare off upstarts. Or perhaps the unions are the real target, as described by Canadian Business magazine last October: "Air Canada can demand wage concessions from employees who agree to work [at Zip]...then gradually shift domestic business to the discount carrier, simultaneously reducing capacity and laying off people at the mainline carrier." (Full article). Either way, being the best takes a back seat to fighting some other kind of war.

 
spyderz
Posts: 624
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 8:06 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:26 am

One problem - CUSTOMER SERVICE. Now I'm not going to blame the individual for providing poor service, but the environment they work in. To me, Air Canada employees seem insecure, overworked, and unpleasant in the workforce. I've had employees tell me to right Mr. Milton a letter telling him about the airline.

Firstly, with the vast financial problems and trigger happy managers Air Canada has, employees need to feel secure. Too many employees are scared, aren't confident, and try to do everything by the book. Employees won't make a chance in smiling for they fear if they do something wrong they'll be axed. I know Air Canada employees have a good union, but it just appears that way to me.

Secondly, how many times have you been in long check-in lines or waited for your luggage forever. This is largely because Air Canada is understaffed in these areas. Yes, Air Canada does have a lot of employees, but the glut of employees are managers or behind the scenes workers. What this causes is long waits for customers, and employees who rush to do their jobs.

Thirdly, it appears from an outsider that many employees are simply unhappy in their present working place. Either this is because of unfriendly coworkers, tough-ass bosses, or any number of things I can't determine.

What these problems translate into is poor customer service. Passengers get annoyed at Air Canada and eventually travel on competition (Westjet). What Air Canada needs to do is improve its customer service. Doing so will retain and bring back customers to Air Canada, filling more planes, making more money, which in turn allow more services to be provided to their customers.

This is just my simplistic view of what Air Canada needs to do, and since I don't work for AC, I'm unaware of specific operating conditions and procedures, so feedback is appreciated to this observor.

thanks
 
polaris
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 7:03 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:38 am

being the best takes a back seat to fighting some other kind of war.

This is a very interesting statement. Robert Milton has said that in the US, the fight is always to be number one. (In my view, number one does not necessarily mean being the best.) He has said that things are different in Canada. He is learning to compromise and work WITH others. Witness his recent interest in working WITH the government rather than fighting AGAINST it. The government as bad guy was something he, and his two predecessors, learned does not work in Canada.

Now, perhaps, they might start to focus on being the best rather than the only.
 
YWG
Posts: 1055
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RE:Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:39 am

-My dad and aunt are Air Canada employee's.
The reason you'd have to pay so much for a LAS flight is becuase it is in high demand. It's a popular tourist destination for gambling, etc. Air Canada is such a huge airline though. They have alot more better things to worry about than the LAS route, but they should pay attention to their fares. But what you pay extra on AC rather WJ (Worstjet) makes intself up for costumer service, FOOD, free booze in exec., unlimited drinks in all classes, leg room, seats, cleanlyness of aircraft, aircraft maintanence,movie's, enroute FM, and so on. Those "hidden" fares pay for all that was listed above, and safe planes. Air canada has numerous hangers in YYZ,YVR, YWG, and YUL all to make their planes safer. And trust me, I've been on two tours of the YWG hanger. They do a good job. SO good that they get contracts on America West, Jetblue, and Air Jamica.
Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: RE:Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:51 am

I think the Westjet planes have more legroom don't they? Or at least they feel that way. You also get unlimeted drinks on WJ and that crappy meal is not worth an extra 500 bucks, WJ's aircraft are also very clean, And I also believe that AC is not the only airline in canada that maintains there own planes as does WJ.
 
YWG
Posts: 1055
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2001 11:29 am

RE: RE:Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:58 am

But you have to ask yourself.....how many heavy maintanence hangers do they have? One, in YYC. There-700 I bet are nice, but those old, ratty -200 look like they could use some work.
Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
 
AC320
Topic Author
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:58 am

My experiences on AC are always the exact polar opposite of what its detractors claim they experience. As I've said, always great food (see previous posts), service, the legroom is comfy, etc.....

Not to point fingers or play judge and jury I sometimes wonder if the detractors simply latch onto a single unpleasant experience or take a bit of literary license? But that's just based on my own personal experiences.

Therefore I can only see AC's problem as being management and perhaps a country of 30 million people who just love to complain (well thats how a lot of us Montrealers are, not sure if it applies to the whole nation).
fuddle duddle
 
fallingeese
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:33 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 9:58 am

Blair...so we meet again
I'm tired of your constant attacks on Westjet.

"But what you pay extra on AC rather WJ (Worstjet) makes intself up for costumer service, FOOD, free booze in exec., unlimited drinks in all classes, leg room, seats, cleanlyness of aircraft, aircraft maintanence,movie's, enroute FM, and so on. Those "hidden" fares pay for all that was listed above, and safe planes."

Gimma a break please, WorstJet? Food, well on my YYC-YWG I would have had to pay an extra $500 for myself for this "food". This was a flight without meal service. Customer service? I've never had a bad experiance on Westjet in 18 flights, don't get me started about some Air Canada experiances. Air Canada charges for Alcohol too. Westjet gives unlimited drinks. Westjet aircraft have the same amout of leg room, and the seats are just as comfortable. Westjet's aircraft are sparkling clean. Maintainance, Westjet has an extraordinary level of maintainance. Just because it's a discount carrier, it doesn't mean they slack on maintainance. I've had a tour of the WJ facilities in Calgary, and guess what...half the people there are former Air Canada employees who left for a better opertunity at WJ. Air Canada doesn't have hangars in more places to have safer aircraft, half of the hangars were inherited. They do maintainance checks for other carriers because otherwise there would be no work on occasion.


I'm a Canadi>n Kid. I have passes on Air Canada but I usually choose to fly Westjet instead, on any occasion I can. Air Canada is a great carrier, but it needs to learn what it's best at. It's one of the best full service carriers I've been on. It needs to step upto the world stage, not battle with a small carrier (Westjet). I've had many service problems on Air Canada in the last few years. I've had Air Canada flights with 5 passengers, 2 of us were non-rev. The Westjet flight next to us at the same time was full. I know there are a few others with similar experiances.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
fallingeese
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:33 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 10:03 am

Blair -

"But you have to ask yourself.....how many heavy maintanence hangers do they have? One, in YYC. There-700 I bet are nice, but those old, ratty -200 look like they could use some work."

Only one hangar? It's the most advanced one in Canada. Believe it or not. Westjet contracts out some maintainance to SPAR, a company that I have seen Air Canada using for occasional maintainance.

737-200's you should really look at what Air Canada is opperating. They too are opperating those old, ratty 737-200's. Need work? You gotta be kidding me, those planes are maintained to the highest degree.

and the 737-700's sure are nice!

Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
YWG
Posts: 1055
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2001 11:29 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 10:13 am

I totaly agree with you fallingeese. I hate the 737-200's in generaly, yes even AC's. I respect you and your opinions geese, and dont want to make you a YWG777 like enemy. It's just I think Air Canada has more expirence. Sure they are roughf aroudn the edges, but they are good inside.
Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
 
AWspicious
Posts: 2780
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 7:47 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 10:22 am

I would have liked to see them incorporate the proud wings paint scheme into a new livery to reflect the merger of Air Canada and Canadian Airlines.
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
airfrancejfk
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 1:05 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 11:22 am

I used to fly AC regularly from YYZ-LGA and back. I always noticed that on some flights, all you would get is soda and cookies/chips, whilst on others you get a sandwich, salad, cake and drink. Why is this? The flights are the same length. On LGA-YYZ I got the full meal, whilst on YYZ-LGA I got chips and soda. On another flight LGA-YYZ I got chips and soda whilst the YYZ-LGA was full service. Any explanations from the AC folks on here would be appreciated.
 
AC320
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 11:28 am

Perhaps it was the time of day you were flying dictating the meal service. do you recall if the LGA-YYZ flight was listed as "snack" service, while the YYZ-LGA flight was "lunch/dinner" service?
fuddle duddle
 
Hoffa
Posts: 946
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:05 pm

One big reason AC in in such a hole is their huge transborder exposure. Until the economy picks up, the transborder business traffic will continue to suffer and there's no way around this except for slashing a huge amount of jobs and aircraft.
 
fallingeese
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:33 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:11 pm

YWG - I actually love the 737-200. I've been on that aircraft over 60 times in 16 years.

Fly Westjet!

...or Air Canada if you have to! lol
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
Guest

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:16 pm

one thing Air Canada can improve is by Adding PTVS to all their Seats just like SIA or Cathay And Having More Younger Friendly F/As

:D
 
AF777
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 1999 11:44 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:38 pm

I agree with you on the younger attendants. The flights which require the highest seniority to fly (yul-CDG) have the worst. However, the younger breed of flight attendanta are great - eager and friendly. Don't hold your breath on the PTV's. That's the last thing we need to think about given the current economic situation. I would love them and the A330 Y seats have the capability to have them, it is just going to be a while.
 
iluvwestjet
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 5:18 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:44 pm

I agree with most of the earlier posts about service, operational performance, and other improvments that can be made at AC. My personal view is something like this (although many points have already been mentioned).

1) New managment - I don't know if it's just Robert Milton or the entire AC managment team, but AC is just heading in the wrong direction. Tango right now pretty much eats away mainline leisure traffic; Zip is not going to work unless its point is to beat out discount carriers. New managment needs to come in and take a look at things all across the board, including:

2) Employee moral - I don't know what it is about AC employees, but their moral does seem rather low, not to mention that most of them are anti-WestJet. Maybe this is what AC has been telling the employees. But anyways, morale needs to rise - make people happy to be working for Air Canada. You should have some kind of core review, review everyone from up top down to the bottom, perhaps increase employee benefits (like more free non-rev'ing). Anything to keep AC's employees happy, if that does not work, get rid of some of them, and if need be, hire some new, more skilled ones.

3) Operational performance - I usually try to fly half AC and half WestJet when travelling within Canada, and one thing I have noticed is that AC's operational performance is consistently poor. Whether its delays of 3 hours+ or lost bags on a simple leg such as YVR-YYC, I have seen it all happen (to me as well as to others). Get the planes pushed back at the departure time, get the bags where and when they are supposed to be. I have no insider knowledge but I know this can be done if you have enough skilled, happy employees.

4) Customer service - once you have #2 and #3 nailed down, complaints will go down. You won't have to stand in line behind a guy bitching at an AC agent at 2am in YVR. And when people do complain, if it is valid (say their flight was delayed 4 hours and somehow they missed their connection or something), apologize and offer something back - don't be reluctant to offer hotel vouchers or vouchers for future flights. As long as these things don't happen often, it won't hurt your pocket too much.

5) Public Image/Relations - with the above all nailed down, eventually the complaints about Air Canada will go down (at least about customer service). Once that's down, more people will choose the incentives that AC offers over competitors most of the time if fares are more or less the same (Aeroplan miles/status being the primary reason). And also, people need to see AC as a world class carrier, not a public enemy, advertising about the exotic destinations around the world AC flies to, advertise about business and first class service. Because WestJet is not everything to everyone; the old lady or businessperson sitting next to me on a WestJet flight probably does not appreciate jokes about getting passengers to pick up on one of the flight attendants.

6) Route structure/aircraft
The 732s really should go, at least the majority of them. They do look somewhat crudy (just like WJs 732s), you have A319s and A320s - stick to them. They are much more fuel efficient and give passengers a more modern looking cabin, which goes with the image of a world class carrier.

As for route structure, it used to be (I don't know if it is anymore), AC's and Canadian's big money makers were the international routes and the domestic routes were the ones where AC and CP duked it out. Go back to that idea, expand/enhance international/transborder destinations and profit for them. When it comes to domestic traffic, just have the mainline routes and AC regional routes to connect passengers to those international routes. You don't have to have a fare war with WestJet, just match or come near matching WJ's fares where you need to, but by no means do you need to undercut them. Let the international routes subsidize the domestic ones - you'll still be out ahead. And right now, if you want to charge something high for something like YYZ-YUL, go right ahead, as long as its not an outrageous fare (e.g. $500+), take advantage of the fact that there is no competition.

So yeah, those are my thoughts. Thanks for reading to the end.
 
caribb
Posts: 1502
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:33 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 12:49 pm

I fly AC quite often and generally I don't have major complaints. They are pretty good on average. My only suggestions are the following;

1. Their employees have a tendancy to be a bit "unpolished" with travellers. I've seen them snapping at people and in one instance out right yelling at some Chinese passengers who were unable to communicate in English or French. They really need to learn some communication skills that don't put people off and keep their emotions reigned in a bit more.

2. Quit funneling everyone through Toronto. I know its their business strategy especially with their membership in Star Alliance. Neverhteless, as a lowly passenger I hate having to always go to Toronto to get anywhere else. So often flights get delayed there, luggage can be misplaced and it can be physically exhausting running around from gate to gate to catch aircraft. I much prefer nonstop flights wherever possible. It really comes down to what is truely important to the carrier, customer satisfaction or catering to shareholders. The answer is obvious sadly and even with that they are not doing a good job.

But despite these two points I am happy with the aircraft types (although I'd prefer to see 757s instead of A321s and 777s instead of A330s), seat width, leg room, for the most part onboard service and the livery is ok but could do with an update on a small scale. Their YVR route network is pretty decent, their YUL route structure could be a bit more extensive and I'd like to see more from YYC, YWG and YHZ bypassing YYZ where numbers warrant. Maybe they don't and that's the end of story. Anyways, regardless they just need to pull in any excess, improve customer relations and tighten their belts until the money starts to build again.
 
fallingeese
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:33 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 1:07 pm

Another thing that I'd like to bring up is route structure. There are some points where Air Canada could make itself far more effiecient and use less planes. Westjet sometimes will have flights that originate in Comox and end up in Ottawa, with stops in Hamilton, Thunder Bay, Winnipeg, and Calgary. How many people do you think are flying from Comox to Ottawa? Maybe a few, if any. But it picks up passengers along the way, each segment is full, across the country.

Now I know this isn't possible for Air Canada, but some lessons could be learned.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
rootsgirl
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 1:32 pm

If certain parties responding to this post are looking for younger and friendlier....then go to Hooters!! Do you really think that having a young f/a makes paying a higher fare more justified?

By the way, I have several young, gorgeous flight attendant freinds that work for Air Canada, they are just as set in the "Air Canada" attitude as the older ones, so get off your sexist asses.
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 2:57 pm

I have no preference on the age of the f/a's, actually I have noticed that a lot of the younger ones have a "to good to do this job" attitude as where the older ones are more ready to handle the stress and sometimes gross job of being an F/A.

If Air Canada should upgrade anything on its planes it should be winglets to help lower costs.
 
AirCanadaGuy
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2002 5:55 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 3:23 pm

Very simple words on AC!

We need to be Canadian run!!!

We need the Claude Taylors of the world and Peter Jeanniot's.... They made us who we are..I belive!

ACG
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 4:04 pm

Hey,
I live in New Zealand, and my Best friend just got of a Flight on Air Canada, Qantas leased crew and plane.
He said they are much better than Qantas (which he flew back on) and United. He said that the food served was Exceptional!! He also said the Cabin crew were very very pleasant. I asked him prior to take a photo of the Cabin crew for me, (i want to be one). He said to me he asked a Flight Attendant and that she replied with a big YES and a smile on her face!!
Its quite funny though, she came back to him and said "could you please tell me how to work it!! hehehe..."
She took a photo of the cabin crew for him (me  Big thumbs up)!

Maybe this is just a good experience, but they sure are telling people down under that they are good at what they do!! Hell they are giving Qantas a run for there money (and a bad image)!!

Cheers
Mike

PS: What is Air Canada's Slogan?? Thanks
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 4:24 pm

I've come full circle on Air Canada. I used to hate them with a passion because of their monopolistic business practices and relativley poor service in comparison to what was offered by Canadi>n. But on my past few flights with them, I have been very impressed. The flights departed and arrived on or close to the schedule. Meal service was quite good and the staff were very helpful and customer-oriented...much different from what I experienced say five years ago. The seat layout and seat pitch (at least on the A330) was excellent, the best I've experienced in economy class. They have a generous FF plan (Aeroplan) with few restrictions and are a member of a major alliance.

If you're comparing AC to Emirates maybe they do fall a bit short in terms of inflight service and entertainment, but for a North American airline they are pretty damned good. There are no PTVs but I don't care too much about that...there are spaces in the backs of the A330 seats however.

AC is not (as many seem to believe) in dire financial problems. They have substantially reduced operating costs and have tons of cash in case of further trouble. Their load factors are actually quite good, and since the breakeven factor has decreased now, the airline is in a good position for when traffic picks up further.

Now what AC needs to do is make a decision on what its fleet plan will be for the future in domestic and transborder markets. For long-haul, they will be well-set with the A340-300, -500, -600 A330-300 and 767-200/300ER. That is essentially only two different types of flight crews for a large longhaul fleet which is a good point. On the short haul side of things, the massive withdrawl of DC-9s and 732s makes sense now but AC will need to replace the capacity at some point or else they risk losing major customers to WestJet. Essentially they need to choose between becoming a large CRJ operator or adding the A318 to the fleet to fill in the holes.
 
iluvwestjet
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 5:18 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 5:11 pm

I don't know about a generous frequent flier plan. Aeroplan has changed some of the mileage earned this year. For discounted domestic flights and flights to the Caribbean, the Bahamas and Bermuda (Q, L, N, E, G, I, K, O, R, or U classes), you now get 35% of mileage flown or minimum of 175 miles, down from 250 before. United still offers 250 miles though so if you were starting fresh, you'd get more miles on United Plus for AC discounted domestic flights.
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 5:14 pm

I guess you're right, I don't notice that because I usually only fly to Europe, where the mileage isn't discounted no matter how cheap the flight is.
 
AF777
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 1999 11:44 pm

RootsGirl

Tue Jan 22, 2002 11:53 pm

I was just commenting that the younger F/A's that I have encountered for the most part been more friendly, and enthusiastic about their jobs than the one's who are about to retire. This is not true in every case, but based on recent flights, it holds true. This experience has been reinforced for a long time now. This goes for both male and female F/A's. Don't assume that I just meant women - F/A's can be men too you know.
 
AC_B777
Posts: 726
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 5:15 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Tue Jan 22, 2002 11:56 pm

As an employee, I am very proud to work for AC. Yes, we have'nt always done things right, but I know from my point of view, that we are trying.
We were a profitable airline with many things going for us four years ago. Then however, we were nailed by the federal government into merging with CP.
So, take a profitable airline and merge it with an airline that has over $3 billion in debt, and what do you get? The Air Canada that you have today.
To all those who think that most of our employee's are rude and unprofessional, I will have you know that a good majority of these people (not all) are ex-Canadian employee's who are bitter and mad at AC for merging with them, and they are out to give AC a bad name and reputation. I would say they have succeeded quite well. I have come into contact with many CP employee's who have treated me like dog sh$t. I have also had some CP people treat me very good, but it is rare.
I can't figure out why they would be mad. They are the one's who got to keep their jobs, seniority, benefits, etc. Of all the layoff's that happened at AC, not one ex-CP employee was let go, they were all AC people.
Now, how do you think that make us "true" AC employee's feel? We bail out a failing company, but it is our people who suffer, not them. That is the answer to why moral is so low at AC.
Basically, CP took over Air Canada using AC's money!
There are so many reasons to why AC is not doing as good as we could do. There are so many things that we could do better. There are so many ways we could change and be the airline that we were a few years back. However, there are some things that we can't change. As mentioned, the media is always looking for ways to slam us. AC can't fart without the media reporting it. The federal government is having a great time with us, but it is at our expense.
I agree with AirCanadaGuy, we need to have people like Claude Taylor and Pierre Jeanniot in charge again and get rid of the people who are leading us down a not so pleasant road!!
This is my opinion as a faithful and proud AC employee.

AC_B777
In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
 
AF777
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 1999 11:44 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:09 am

Very well said AC_B777. I feel your pride!
 
ywg777
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 1999 9:40 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:42 am

I argree AC route network needs alot of improving. I am a bit disipointed with all the routes they cut for the 11th. 1 perfect example was the YWG-YUL route. Loads were 95% full everyday with the 2 flights then they cut it down to 1 and loads were 100% full on a 737-200 which really made me wonder why the heck they cut it. But the good news is for all you YUL spotters There will be a direct flight resuming to YWG in april so Its A good thing AC decided to re-think that route. Also Id like to see more service over seas to HKG,LHR. the only major canadian city that doesn't have a direct LHR flight is YWG all the rest of them do. Somethings is wrong. In order to get to LHR from YWG you have to fly to eathier YUL,YOW,YYZ,YYC or YEG. I know YWG can handle a LHR route just like YEG on certain days of the week. any thoughts?

Also AC food is the pits and could be better. On my YVR-YWG flight All I got served was a bag of chips and a coke..... last year on the same routing I had chicken fingersfries,ceaser salad. What is wrong with this picture????
For westjet you get that on any flight. Why is AC copying Westjet?
 
airman99o
Posts: 871
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 1999 4:15 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:54 am

CP employees rude. Come on now. I say it is about 50 50 on each of the employees there. Air Canada has to sharpen their image. Get rid of the flight attendants that have been there since the dawn of time. and get back all the new hires you laid off over this summer. Then get rid of the idiot himself. LORD Milton. I am sorry but since he has taken over this airline it has gone totally down hill. Sure he staged off the battle between Air Canada and ONEX / Canadian bid. But then was ordered by the Canadian Govt. To take over Canadian. He could have done this a totally different way. but everything was totally blown out of proportion and it has gone to hell. Sure merging two airlines is not easy but looking at the way things were done just floors me. The computer systems for reservations. Hello easy way to fix that. Get rid of one of them Not merge the two of them to become compatiable. God what a waste of money. Another thing he should have gotten rid of the F-28's right away, and started to rid the DC-9's and the 737's from the fleet. The oldest inefficent ones. But no they are still flying around today. I know you are thinking over capicity but work your schedule around it. I managed to get screwed over for two days in Halifax this fall past. Schedule changes?? Holy cow. what a mess.
Flying Air Canada is quite nice over all. Very nice planes when they are new. Well even the older ones are nice. Very airy feeling and clean. Mind you the service in Hospitality has gone to the dogs. What happened to the meal service. A small sandwich?? if you are lucky, and a bag of pretzels? Good thing there is a curtain between first and coach. Their First class is out of this world. Always Very Very friendly staff working up front. Have yet to encounter a nasty F/A up there. Food is good, and the seats are great. Yes about the Media. Ya of course they are going to publish any bad news on the airline. That is what they do. not many people read good news. Doesn't catch their eye.
But hopefully we will see Air Canada flourish soon. It is bad to see that our National Carrier Is hated in its own country. It must not look overly good to the international travellers. But hopefully we can see Air Canada and the other carriers find their nitches and not kill each other. or should I say Air Canda kill of the rest of them

Airman99o
Safety is Everyones Responsibility.
 
eugdog
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2001 11:32 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:57 am

When people start quoting the supposedly cheap fares they ignore the fact that they all require an saturday night stay. This means only leisure travellors can take advantange of it.

Besides even with a saturday night stay flying between LGA and Toronto is nearly $300 US. Flying from YYZ to Vancouver is more then flying between London and New York. But West Jet is just great. It had great fares and friendly staff and who cares about service or entainment on a one hour flight.

If there is one country that would benefit from cheap airfares it is Canada. It has serious regional problems division. Cheap airfares would really help bind the country togeather. Yet the government bars US airlines from operating domestic Canadian routes. In order to protect Air Canada, the country suffers (and the travelling public!!)

I found Air Canada to be the worse airline accross the Atlantic (with Northwest) - bad food and no personal video screens! Service was just average!
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:59 am

Good point YWG777, they were always 100% full. but AC will make you believe they were unprofitable, I dont believe their BS for one second..

Mark
 
Guest

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 1:45 am

YWG777 wrote: "the only major canadian city that doesn't have a direct LHR flight is YWG all the rest of them do."

YWG lacks overseas service for the same reasons as Omaha, Des Moines and other midwestern cities of similar size and economic base. First is lack of demand: Winnipeg is a blue-collar town without the head-office traffic found in other cities. Next is the proximity to other hubs: YWG has multiple flights daily to MSP, ORD, YYZ and YVR, from which someone can get to many of the world's major cities with only one change of plane. New overseas services would cannibalise existing routes with half-empty planes.

 
polaris
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 7:03 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:22 am

Eugdog: Yet the government bars US airlines from operating domestic Canadian routes.

Is the US ready to allow foreign carriers into its domestic market?
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:25 am

Air Canada actually requested opening up Canadian and US domestic routes to foreign competition.
 
polaris
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 7:03 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:30 am

AC320: Now I'm even more worried. The Westjet at YYZ thread continues to get more posts as this thread drifts farther and farther down. Guess Air Canada is also threatened on Airliners.net
Guess the virtual world really does mimic the real one.


No need to worry AC320. You started an interesting thread and you're getting some informed comments!


 
fallingeese
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:33 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:40 am

It wasn't so much Air Canada that wanted to open up teh US and Canada. It was Miltons idea, and a stupid one at that...in my opinion.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
AC320
Topic Author
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:44 am

Oh yes, I feel much happier now. I'm glad we've had a pretty civilized conversation on this matter which appears to be a sensitive subject to many (even me).

I've been a big AC fan since I first flew them, and was getting really tired of people always bashing the airline, so I was curious as to what they think the source of the problem is.

Do I really see a major problem? Regarding my personal experiences, no. But then I seem to be one of the luckier flyers here.

I just hope people are not basing their opinions on one-time experiences.
fuddle duddle
 
fallingeese
Posts: 2031
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:33 pm

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:46 am

I'm a Westjet supporter Smile

I don't have a problem with Air Canada, I've just had some bad experiances. I have company passes but usually choose to fly Westjet instead. Now if only Milton could keep his mouth shut and his carrier where it belongs, at the top...not in the discount market.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
polaris
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 7:03 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:48 am

I just hope people are not basing their opinions on one-time experiences.

IF they fly at all.

My experience with this carrier has been similar to yours.

 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:19 am

I wish I could only say that have had problems with AC once!
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Improving Air Canada

Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:58 am

Shut it down and start again!
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada

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