david b.
Posts: 2894
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EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 8:30 am

http://www.elal.com/flights/route-map/index.htm
Notice on flight routes to Asia, they seem to fly around arab countries. Is this to avoid trouble? If the US can fly over hostile airspace like Iran for so many years, howcome Israel cant?
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
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RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 8:50 am

Simply because these countries would not grant LY permission to overfly their territory. At least they aren't trying to shoot down LY a/c over international water anymore.  Smile


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:21 am

Also El Al is owned and controlled by the government and is a flag carrier whereas US airlines are private companies.

Having looked at the map I was surprised at how many destination El Al serve especially in Ukraine.
 
od-bwh
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:49 pm

"At least they aren't trying to shoot down LY a/c over international water anymore."

have they shot any LY aircraft previously? I don't think so. Plz correct me if i'm mistaken.

MEA and all airlines departing Beirut head west, even if their intended destination is in the south. Why? simply b'coz they are not allowed to overfly the Israeli airspace. In return, El Al is not allowed to overfly any Arabian airspace (except Jordan and Egypt).

It's different how US aircraft pass thru the Iranian airspace!!! And I don't know if IranAir will be able to fly to the US soon...
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Trvlr
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RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:17 pm

Is it just a fluke in the route map or do El Al planes really go over the southwestern tip of Yemen on their way to India?

Aaron G.
 
od-bwh
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RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:23 pm

No it's real. All Israeli registered planes are not allowed to overfly arab airspace.
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Guest

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:36 pm

more than just Arab airspace!

EL AL planes don't overfly the Arab nations of Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen, Libya, and Oman. They also don't overfly the Muslim nations of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Indonesia, as these countries have decided to not recognize the state.

In responce, Israel meekly returns the favor, although I think its far less of an inconvenience on the Arab side considering a jetliner could cross Israeli airspace in less than 10 minutes.

To answer Aaron's question, that is a mistake. Yemen threatened EL AL a few months ago warning them to keep their planes farther away. It was discussed in the military aviation when someone asked how many minutes it would take for Israel to destroy the Yemeni Air Force. The planes now fly closer to Eritrea.

Israeli planes can overfly Egypt and Jordan I believe but I don't think they have much reason to.

Has LY ever served Amman?

TNNH
 
ly772
Posts: 1269
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RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 4:28 pm

Amman? El Al serves Amman through Israir.

Imagine This:
El Al flying over Iraq and suddenly some engine problems and they have to make an emergency landing...Mr. Hussein wouldn't like that!
 
aio86
Posts: 910
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RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 5:39 pm

On a different note...

What are El Al's schedules like to Cairo? How often do they fly there and with what equipment (737 I'd guess)

Thanks,
-aio86
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 5:48 pm

The detour to Bombay is pretty ridiculous.
 
od-bwh
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RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 6:21 pm

Aio86: i've checked their schedule to Cairo... it's included in the route map, but no flights were listed at all. I think flights are temporarily suspended.

LY772: Don't imagine anything, coz LY is not allowed to overfly these places.

Add to this, a small Lebanese Cessna was shot last year by the Israeli's, b'coz at approached the South borders... Actually it was shot miles away from the Israel, and it was still flying over the Lebanese airspace... I donno why, maybe they suspected in it aiming to destroy a skyscrapper or something!!! (note: this was prior to 9/11). So could you plz instead imagine an MEA having troubles near the Israeli airspace, and having to make an emergency landing there? Plz let me know before Mr. Sharon shoots it.
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Guest

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:53 pm

"... Actually it was shot miles away from the Israel, and it was still flying over the Lebanese airspace... I donno why, maybe they suspected in it aiming to destroy a skyscrapper or something!!! (note: this was prior to 9/11)."



OD-BWH, it is an aviation forum, not a place to spread fabricated political LIES!!



The plane was not shot down while "still flying over the Lebanese airspace", that's a pure lie!

The plane was shot when it was flying deep OVER ISRAELI TERRITORY, and not just after the border:

"The Cessna 152 crashed near the coastal resort town of Mikhmoret, about 95 kilometers south of the border.

The commander of the Israeli Air Force, Major General Dan Halutz, said the helicopter fired only after the pilot refused for 30 minutes to respond to repeated radio contact

Most of the Cessna's debris thundered down on a school on the beach near Mikhmoret, about 50 kilometers north of Tel Aviv.


*****
***********"miles away from the Israel,
*********** and it was still flying over the Lebanese airspace"
*****

The pilot's mangled body crashed through the roof of the school and into the office of assistant principal Nitza Kramer, but no one was hurt.

"Suddenly, from the corner of the ceiling, a flash of light came through, and then everything went black and the room was full of smoke," Kramer said. "I couldn't see anything, but I stepped on something soft which must have been the body."

Smaller pieces of wreckage fell on a road and were scattered through a residential area near the coast.

Police evacuated the area while sappers checked the wreckage and the pilot's body for weapons or explosives, but there was no immediate word on whether any were found.
" (Haaretz special, 25.5.01)







"Plz let me know before Mr. Sharon shoots it."

- How spiritual! And you, "plz" let me know how the Cessna managed to crash on Mikhmoret, after having been shot miles away from the Israel, and it was still flying over the Lebanese airspace.
 
artsyman
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Toda

Wed Jan 23, 2002 10:06 pm

I was going to post the same thing, but decided that it isnt worth it, people have these views inserted from birth and nothing you say, or anything he says is ever going to change the way either feels.

Jer
 
lxlgu
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 7:12 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 10:42 pm

El Al fly with 737 twice weekly TLV CAI TLV and they
are still operating at this stage

Cheers!
Tony
 
od-bwh
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

RE: Toda, Artsyman

Wed Jan 23, 2002 10:45 pm

Dear Toda,
First, let me tell you that it was reported that the plane crashed over a place called Tyr in South Lebanon. Unfortunately, I've been looking for sources, but couldn't find any archives available at the Leb Media. Actually I wasn't there so I can't tell anything. Besides, I don't think you've been in the school as well. And thanks for calling me a lier . There are more non-hostile methods to express thoughts and beleifs.

Artsyman: I wouldn't like to raise such a subject in this forum, but one guy was talking about how would Iraq shoot a civilian plane. This is actually the only reason for me to write about this subject.

Further to this, these thougts are not inserted from birth . If you would like a more open and logic discussion, we can possibly go to the non-aviation forum, or you can send me an email. I can give you my email, you're most welcome.

Thx gentlemen... OD-BWH
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El Al 001
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 10:48 pm

OD-BWH and others,

On 27th of Julay,1955, an LY Lockheed L- 149 Constellation was shoot down over Bulgaria;

"The Constellation had taken off from Vienna at 02.53h for a flight to Tel Aviv. After the aircraft crossed the Yugoslav/Bulgarian border at FL180 it was attacked by 2 Bulgarian fighter aircraft. The plane descended until it broke up at 2000ft, crashing in flames. The Constellation had strayed off course because of an incorrect radio compass indication due to the effects of thunderstorm activity in the area. Believing to be over the Skopje beacon, the crew changed the heading to 142deg. At 40mls east off airways Amber 10, the aircraft entered Bulgarian airspace and was intercepted by the Bulgarian fighters". 58 people died in that accident.

Aio86,
Before the mideast crisis LY used to fly a daily 757/767 to CAI, these days LY flies on a 4 weekly basis 737/ATR(Israir) to CAI.

TNNH and LY772,
LY used to fly to Amman, the flights used to be operate by the Israeli regional airlines, Arkia (DH8), then Israir (AT4), then Aeroel (DH8) and then Israir again.
For more than a year, LY doesnt fly to Amman, instead of LY, Arkia flies it for itself...

TLV and Bombay are 4000 km of each other, but due to route resrictions it takes 7 hours and 45 minuts!!!

Michael

 
salim
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 3:27 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 10:53 pm

I totally agree with OD-BWH
 
El Al 001
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 10:59 pm

OD-BWH,

>>>"Actually it was shot miles away from the Israel, and it was still flying over the Lebanese airspace... I donno why, maybe they suspected in it aiming to destroy a skyscrapper or something!!! (note: this was prior to 9/11).">>>

That is so B.S.!!! the Cessna was flying over "Rosh Ha'nikra" It was flying over Israel and the pilot did'nt respond to any Israeli I.D request... it was indeed suspected of being aimed for a terror action, and WE did what we had to do.

<<<"So could you plz instead imagine an MEA having troubles near the Israeli airspace, and having to make an emergency landing there? Plz let me know before Mr. Sharon shoots it.">>>

OH please!!! In 1995 a hijecked Iran airline B707 had to make an emergency landing at Israel as it had no fuel, we did let it land as the pilot idetified etc', infact, we gave the hijecked people food and a place to sleep, not to mention that the a/c was refuled and was sent back to Iran.

The answer to your next question is: NO, Israel had nothing to do with the hijecker.

Get a life, we do not shoot a/c just for fun.

Michael
 
El Al 001
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:02 pm

Salim,

Somehow I dont wonder....

Do you really think we would shoot a MEA a/c that must do an emergency landing somewhere at Israel???!

Get real.

Micahel.
 
od-bwh
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

RE: EL AL 001

Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:02 pm

So do we shoot for fun?

Besides, we've just discussed this with Toda and artsyman a couple of lines above. Check again plz.
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El Al 001
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Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:08 pm

Did I say you do???

 
od-bwh
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:15 pm

Actually you didn't, but someone else did when speaking about how would iraq do  Big grin Plz read the thread.

Thx
OD-BWH
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El Al 001
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:18 pm

IRANIAN AIRLINER RETURNS TO TEHERAN; HIJACKER TO BE HANDED TO REDCROSS

ISRAEL allowed the hijacked Iranian passenger plane to leave Uvda Air Force
Base for Teheran last night, with all of its occupants except the hijacker.
The Kish Air Boeing 707, which landed here Tuesday morning, took off from Uvda
at 7:22 p.m., and was escorted by two air force jets for the duration of the
flight over Israeli air space. The plane headed northwest to the
Mediterranean, north to Turkey, and then eastwards to Iran.
The veteran airliner landed in Tehran around midnight Iranian time, but
passengers were not allowed to leave the airport, sources in Tehran told the
Associated Press. Passengers and crew were taken to an empty terminal used
only for special flights, the sources said.
The hijacker, Jabari Rizah, a 30-year-old flight attendant, will be brought
today before the Eilat Magistrate's Court for a remand hearing. Israel will
most likely reject his request for political asylum, but will not extradite
him to Iran. According to a Foreign Ministry international law department
official, Rizah will probably be handed over to the International Red Cross.
"I assume [the Red Cross] will not send him back to Iran, because although he
clearly committed an act of terrorism, sending him back would expose him to
torture and condemn him to death. I think the Red Cross would assist him in
finding an alternative asylum venue," the official said.
Israel did not grant political asylum to the five passengers who had requested
it Tuesday, and they embarked the plane last night together with the other
169 passengers.
The plane's departure was scheduled for late yesterday morning, but a problem
with the door covering the landing gear was discovered as passengers were
boarding. Repairs were performed by technicians throughout the afternoon.
Immediately prior to takeoff last night, a minor engine problem was also
detected and fixed.
The departure was cleared by the security cabinet yesterday morning. In a
special session held at Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin's office in Jerusalem, a
unanimous decision was reached to release the jet, the passengers and the
cargo. The cabinet also issued a general condemnation of air piracy and
hijacking, and said the release of the plane demonstrated Israel's compliance
with international treaties "despite the Iranian regime's hostility toward
Israel". Earlier in the day, Batya Arad, the mother of missing navigator Ron
Arad, and his brother Dudu, arrived in Uvda and met with the passengers.

Taken from The Jerusalem Post 1992 Thursday, September 21, 1995.

Michael
 
od-bwh
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

RE: EL AL 001

Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:27 pm

I donno what you aim at posting this article. Maybe you can post the entire newspaper, so that we can solve the mideast crisis!

Anyways, this has nothing to do with Ron Arad. The later was on his fighter plane... bla bla bla. Plz don't mention this in the thread here.

Besides, i'm in this forum to discuse aviation, and only aviation issues... not anything else. If you would like to discuss other things, you're welcome. Plz let me know.

Thx
OD-BWH
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El Al 001
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:50 pm

OMG. You dont know how to read.

There are 36 lines in the article I gave above, 34 of which were dealing with the hijecked 707 etc' stuff, another 2 mentioned poor Ron Arad.

How the hell can you say that "The later was on his fighter plane... bla bla bla. Plz don't mention this in the thread here."

You obviously need glasses, maybe you should take reading classes in English, or better yet, READ THE ARTICLE, and only then reply.

Michael
 
od-bwh
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:54 pm

El Al 001
Possibly you need to take classes on how to respond to people.

Further, when I need to read a newspaper, I won't take it from you, so you dont' have to paste the whole story.
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El Al 001
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Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Thu Jan 24, 2002 12:08 am

But I do take those kind of classes  Wink/being sarcastic, do you know what they teach me there?! "Be kind, Hostility was meant only for hostile people." thats their slogan.

You can keep your comments regarding the article to yourself, it is Aviation related and this is not YOUR forum.

You wrote an ugly comment, IMO, asking: >>>"could you plz instead imagine an MEA having troubles near the Israeli airspace, and having to make an emergency landing there? Plz let me know before Mr. Sharon shoots it.">>>

I gave you a simple answer for it.

I DID NOT mean to hurt you, though.

Michael
 
avi
Posts: 887
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Thu Jan 24, 2002 12:22 am

The reason that Israel let the Iranian plane to land in Israel was the fuel problem and the fact that both Jordan and Saudi Arabia refused to do it.
It doesn’t stop to amaze me how the Muslims care about each other.

The plane that was shot down last May flew almost over half of Israel west border and only when he turned into land.
Long live the B747
 
Guest

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Thu Jan 24, 2002 1:05 am

"Besides, i'm in this forum to discuse aviation, and only aviation issues... not anything else"

- Ha ha! that's a summit! Read your very FIRST post: a politically-motivated invention, with an aviation-oriented attack on the PM of Israel.



***



"Besides, I don't think you've been in the school as well."

- OK, it's clear...

You're too clever; this whole thing was actually another Israeli/Mossad cover-up operation! The Cessna was cowardly shot down over Lebanon, without any reason nor warning, and then its wreckage was stolen from Lebanon and carried to Mikhmoret, where a school was purposely bombed by the IAF so people would think the Cessna had crashed on the building.
 
Guest

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Thu Jan 24, 2002 2:00 am

This is the GENERAL AVIATION forum.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Thu Jan 24, 2002 6:11 am

He he... I see I missed out on all the fun. Stupid school... Big grin

Anyways, I am aware of the LY a/c that was shot down over Bulgaria but in my post I was referring to the fact that in the late 60's/early 70's LY a/c flying over the red sea to Africa and Asia had to be escorted by IAF fighter jets.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
od-bwh
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:25 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Thu Jan 24, 2002 2:49 pm

LY744,
What a nice flight was this... i hope i can get back to the 60's and 70's.

Parra, thx for saying that. I've been trying to tell the guys that this is an aviation forum...

I think there should be a filter to sort out "politically explicit" wording  Big thumbs up
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ly772
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 9:33 pm

RE: EL AL Flight Routes

Thu Jan 24, 2002 4:26 pm

That cessna was shot down over Israel...actually quite far from the border...it was intercepted over Lebanese airspace because Israel once occupied S. Lebanon and they know that there are now Airstrips south of one point so if they see an airplane, commercial or military, it is considered a risk and automatically intercepted. Had Israel not shot it down, he would've crashed into a skyscraper in Tel Aviv.

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