Marco
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BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:29 pm

BA & KL are cooperating in reducing flights to the Middle East, to cut costs.

Details as follows :
KLM will suspend Amsterdam to Muscat service.
BA will increase London to Muscat service to daily frequency.
BA will suspend service from London to Damman.
KLM will operate 4 flights a week from Amsterdam to Damman.
Both airlines combined will offer a total 3 daily flights into Dubai. (2 by BA, 1 by KLM).


Reducing flights into Dubai surprises me because BA/KL seemed to be doing very well with double daily service each. I guess things have changed! Also I wonder what's going to happen to BAH/DOH/KWI/JED/RUH?

Regards


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donder10
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:31 pm

I don't see BA reducing frequencing into Saudia Arabia.If anything BA would probabrly prefer to increase feequency.But Sep 11 might have altered those plans.
 
Marco
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:46 pm

Donder10, yeah I can't see BA or KL reducing service to Saudi (except for Dammam). RUH & JED are cash cows!
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od-bwh
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:54 pm

Nothing was so far mentioned regarding other destinations in the Middle East. Other destinations, like CAI, BEY, DAM seem all to have the same frequencies... I hope more  Smile
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Marco
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:00 pm

CAI and BEY are profitable destinations for both KL & BA, especially CAI. KL flies a B767 to CAI daily while BA flies a B777 daily. Over the years BA(BMED) has upgraded BEY to daily service while KL has downgraded it from daily B767 service to daily B737 service. As for DAM I wouldn't think of it as a cash cow, it's just another destination probably just making money.
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donder10
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:02 pm

BA has like 230 seats in its 777s to Jedddah and Riyadh!
 
Marco
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:12 pm

BA uses specially configured 777's to the Middle East. They have more F/J seats.
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donder10
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:14 pm

Yep.The non-ER versions,G-ZZZA-ZZZE.
Alex
 
od-bwh
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:21 pm

I do agree that BEY is a profitable destination for KLM, but why have they downgraded their services to the 738 instead! I've checked all other routes, and found that they are still using 763 on all flights, even to DAM and AMM. Does this have anything to do with 9/11? Or it's just a policy used to follow other European carriers? I've seen BA, LH, OS, and previously SR and SN treating BEY as a european, and using small eqpt. Of course AF exempts.

DAM has always been in trouble, with LH withdrawing services, and AF reducing frequencies a couple of years ago.
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hisham
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:22 pm

KL's BEY service change from a 7673 to a 7378 wasn't a downgrade. The 767 used to fly AMS-BEY-DAM or AMS-BEY-AMM on some days. The 7378 is daily non-stop AMS-BEY-AMS.

As Marco said, BA has a daily BEY flight in the low season (A320). It becomes 9 flights a week every summer.

Hisham.
 
od-bwh
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RE: Hisham

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:27 pm

Last year, at least, i beleive KL had a AMS-BEY-AMS 763 service. I don't recall if this was daily or not!!

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Marco
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:32 pm

As Hisham pointed out KL didn't really downgrade BEY. I guess they think that the B767 is too big for a daily AMS-BEY-AMS flight. DAM & AMM are combined so that's why KL needs to use a bigger aircraft.

OD-BHW to answer your question KL started flying the B738 to BEY long before 9/11. AF, like you pointed out, still flies the A310 to BEY but with the A310's being withdrawn from service will they switch to A320's or A330's? Post 9/11 AF was actually considering dropping DAM altogether.
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od-bwh
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:38 pm

AF will use the A340-300 after withdrawing their 313s. But they will drop the service to 5/week (i guess) instead of daily. Too bad  Sad
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hisham
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:38 pm

AF is starting a daily B777 to BEY this summer.
Are you sure about dropping DAM? France and Syria still have relatively strong ties.
I flew KLM in December and January 2000/01. It was all 738. It's kind of unfortunate because that was BEY's only 767 service... And I'm sick of flying 737s.

Hisham.
 
Marco
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:44 pm

Yes Hisham I'm very sure, AF wanted to drop DAM but decided not to. Airlines went through a very difficult time after 9/11!
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hisham
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:44 pm

AF will fly the A340 up till April. From there it will become a daily 777.

Hisham.
 
donder10
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 3:48 pm

Flying a 340 that distance cant be too economical.
 
Marco
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 4:21 pm

Donder10:

It can be economical provided the demand is there. LH flies two A340's to TLV from FRA everday. SR does it with two A330's. BA flies two B767's. Flying to the Middle East isn't cheap, so the yields must be good! For example from Dubai, to get to London the lowest fare (on BA or EK) you could possibly find (even in the low season) would be around 3,000 dirhams. That's around 900$. That's the cheapest ticket, and the flight is only seven hours long!
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taloush
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 4:24 pm

What about AUH?
BA fly a 777 into AUH everyday, but I read somewhere that they reduced frequency to, I think, 6 flights per week.
Also, KLM used to fly a 763 to AUH which I think comes from Dubai before going to AMS.

Talal
Your attention, please.
 
Guest

RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 4:26 pm

BA flights to Saudi also have a women-only cabin (and their infants), just in front of the World Traveller main cabin-about 4-5 rows, as I remember it.

Yes, the First cabin is abnormally large (and very nice too...).

Regards
 
carduelis
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 5:25 pm

BA to DXB twice daily represents an increase on current services.
BEY is operated by British Mediteranean as a BA franchise.
Dammam (DMM) is the 'new' name for Dharan, and is not to be confused with Damascus (DAM).
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Marco
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 8:52 pm

No one is confusing Dammam with Damascus. I have been living in Dubai for nine years so I do know the difference between DAM and DMM. Currently BA flies 12x week to Dubai, before 9/11 it used to be two daily flights, so it's not really an increase.
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carduelis
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 9:39 pm

>>>I have been living in Dubai for nine years so I do know the difference between DAM and DMM<<<
Good, I'm pleased for you, but others on the forum may not be so aware.
>>>before 9/11 it used to be two daily flights, so it's not really an increase.<<<
I said it was an increase on current published schedules, in reflection of the thread heading.
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od-bwh
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Wed Jan 23, 2002 11:42 pm

There are no flights for Emirates to the US. As soon as the former launches services to JFK or other US airports, i beleive services between DXB and LON will really drop.

As for BEY, most passengers enjoy KLM for it's relatively lower prices, that's why they fly KLM to the US. Others enjoy flying BA for it's service and diverse network and connections.

Anyone can correct these info if i'm wrong?!
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Marco
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Thu Jan 24, 2002 12:29 am

Carduelis:

Good, I'm pleased for you, but others on the forum may not be so aware

Funny, because no one was confusing the two cities. Thanks for the info anyways  Insane

I said it was an increase on current published schedules, in reflection of the thread heading

The two weekly flights that were stopped are supposed to come back anyway, so no it's not an increase.

OD-BWH

Your second paragraph is correct however the first one isn't.

While EK depends on USA/Canada pax on the LHR/LGW flights it actually depends more on pax transiting in DXB, and taking onward flights to: the Indian subcontinent, Asia and Australia.
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emirates777
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Thu Jan 24, 2002 12:45 am

Actually - the contrary.

Emirates will significantly boost capacity to LON this year.

LGW goes upto a B777-300 from A330 in June, and a 2nd daily A330 is added in August/Sept.

LHR sees the EK3/4 being upgraded from B772 to B773.

Emirates are keen on pushing low yielding traffic through DXB but in large volumes.

Rgds
Emirates777
 
HUYfan
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Thu Jan 24, 2002 2:39 am

pity that DMM is losing BA. In the summer, the 767 flights were always full, in all classes. will the KLM 4xweekly service continue to anywhere as it previously did to MCT, which is being dropped?

Regards
 
Marco
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Thu Jan 24, 2002 3:00 am

HUYfan,

my guess would be that KL will only fly AMS-DMM-AMS, because BA & KL are cooperating to reduce capacity. When BA leaves DMM, capacity to Europe will be reduced by alot, so KL will take over. This will mean higher load factors for both airlines.
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hisham
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RE: BA/KL Reduce Capacity To The Middle East

Thu Jan 24, 2002 5:02 am

KLM/Northwest are definitely the most popular on the BEY-US routes. They have the lowest prices as OD-BWH said. Another important factor is that there is a huge lebanese community in Detroit.
The problem with BA is that many of their US flights are Gatwick, but the BEY flights are all from Heathrow.

Hisham.

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