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For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 6:55 am

I want to thank my good friend in Denmark for alerting me to the website listed below. In this site is the horrible, volitale history and horrifying events that occured when this deplorable charter carrier, Nationair Canada, flew the skies. Nationair Canada Ltd. is without a doubt the blackest spot in Canadian aviation history.

I was a Flight Attendant with Worldways Canada Ltd. from 1985-1990. The crews at WG had it good back then. Very good, in fact, when compared to our colleagues at Nationair. I and others who worked in the Canadian aviation industry knew a lot of the shocking behind the scenes drama at Nationair. However, there is some information and facts that I have only recently learned. Believe me, what is contained in this site is the absolute truth. The terrible fact is, there is so much more that is not contained in this website, but nonetheless true.

Why would I post this? Because I personally knew 2 of the Flight Attendants who died a horrible death aboard Nationair Flight 2120 in Jeddah, July 11, 1991. They and the rest of the crew, and indeed the passengers, did not deserve a fate like this. I can still recall the
absolute shock and horror I and other F/A's felt when we learned of the Jeddah crash 11 years ago. Reading through this website brought to light the fact that time sometimes does not heal or diminish the element of sadness. Especially for the families of the crew and pax of Nationair 2120. The true story of Nationair needs to be told, to be remembered, so that at least their deaths were not in vain.

In the Canadian aviation industry, there are those airline CEOs who have a questionable image and reputation with some. Robert Milton of Air Canada and
Angus Kinnear of Canada 3000 to name two. However,
these two men pale in comparison to the former CEO
of Nationair Canada, Robert Obadia. Read the history of Nationair, and you will know just why.

To the crew of Nationair Flight 2120

Lest we Forget.
Rest in Peace.

http://www.nationair-canada.com/

Note: By accessing GOOGLE, you will find many sites pertaining to Nationair, and the 1991 crash. This is but one example.

Fly safe, everyone.

Canadi>nBoy
YYZ

 
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yyz717
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 7:06 am

This site has actually been cleaned up. It used to contain some nasty quotes made by some Quebecois NX staff about some of the NX staff that did die, in particular a couple of the Anglo FA's. The comments were racist and were removed at the request of the dead FA families. Seems that Obadia was not the only shit-head at NX.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 7:11 am

Yes Neil, you are absolutely right about the site being cleaned up, thank God for that, for the families sake.
However, I am pleased that, to coin a phrase, "the Truth is Out There", in regards to NX.

Obadia and the rest of the NX scum can all burn in Hell.
Amongst the crew of Flight 2120, are two individuals I had the pleasure of knowing. How DARE those atrocious comments be stated by any human being.
 
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yyz717
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 7:14 am

Did you read those comments John? Before they were deleted?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 7:25 am

Not only did I read them, I was told personally of some of them. You cannot imagine the ANGER I and others felt. Sometimes, Neil, there are events and occurances which defy comprehension.

And to think, to THINK that the surviving crews who were stationed in Jeddah were told (threatened) by NX
to carry on with their flights there! GOD!
 
blink182
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 7:50 am

Wow, Nationair must have had absolutely incredible management(i am being sarcastic here). Did anyone read the quote page? Some of the management's words were definately harsh.

Those included "Stop acting like a dog licking it's wound"
"Well we lost ........ and ........ today" "That flight didn't finish"
These weren't the exact quotes, but they were similar though.

"Obadia and the rest of the NX scum can all burn in hell."- Very well put Canadi>nBoy.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
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yyz717
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 8:44 am

A surviving French-Canadian FA was quoted as saying 'at least we won't have that English bitch around here anymore' in refering to one of the anglophone FA's who perished.

Charming
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Av8trxx
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 9:18 am

I hadn't known the real circumstances about this accident before. What an incredible page! How absolutley ridiculous & tragic.

God bless their souls...
 
palebird
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 11:09 am

I used to work for NX a long time ago at YMX. I was hauled before the director of maintenance, director human resources and another individual who started it all off and told to either tow the line or be fired. They gave me two weeks to give them my decision. I took the two weeks and found another job. When I met these three again at the end of the two week period I had great pleasure in telling them to stick it. Their policy was to make flights at any cost. Airworthy or not. I disagreed and was put up to a kangaroo court.I cannot and could not live with that. So I left leaving seniority and good pay and the 747 course behind. But I was so happy to leave. Jeddah was just waiting to happen. And it did. It did not surprise me but it was a crime.
 
SafeFlyer
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 11:54 am

Of course, my username says it all!  Laugh out loud
Obadia is in prison I believe, and I hope he'll be there for a long time.

Did you know that the former Vice-President of Nationair (I'm pretty sure he was v-p or 100% sure, part of the management team) was François Legault, founder of Air Transat, and now our Québec education minister. Sure, nobody can say he was as bad as Obadia, but TS stared to have fines AFTER he was replaces by Denis Jacob, so I bet Obadia was acting quite alone, but I maybe mistaken. It was a bad airline, and I'm flying Air Canada in March, hope Mliton hasn't cut the maintenance budget, as it's image would suggest. Reassure me please, some comments make me feel that AC isn't as safe as it was a few years ago.
 
captaingomes
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 12:36 pm

I have been to the nationair site many times, and know a couple of the people who are quoted in the quotes page. I'll leave it at that!

In any case, I was worried when going to Royal Airlines as a flight attendant, about it being a Montreal based airline, and how it would be to work with the French Canadian crews. And I heard stories where there were problems with English and French crews working together.

My first flight was with a Montreal based crew at it was wonderful. In fact, every flight I had with French Canadian crews was fantastic. They are usually very warm people with lots of character. But I have seen where the political and cultural differences have had bad effects on people working together. We all have to understand one another in order to work effectively together.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
lymanm
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SafeFlyer

Fri Jan 25, 2002 3:12 pm

I don't know where you heard that AC is less safe now than it used to be. The fact that many other carriers send their fleets to AC for maintenance speaks for itself.
buhh bye
 
VirginA340
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 3:28 pm

This sounds like the Canadian version of Twoer Air but at the lowest level. This is infact the epidimy of evil for aviation! I hope the Canadian Gov has toughed laws against such airlines! Or have they failed yet again?
"FUIMUS"
 
Guest

RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 7:57 pm

The guy that acted as Contract Manager for the JED operation when the aircraft went down, Mike Sparks, is a good friend of mine who was subsequently hounded and harassed by Obadia and his minions to try and cover for them.

When he wouldn't agree to back up their lies, they tried to heap most of the blame on him, on the basis that it would be their word against his as those who could support Mike were all dead.

Scum, complete and utter scum.  Pissed  Pissed  Pissed
 
ACA330
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 10:48 pm

Canadi>nBoy, thanks so much for bringing these terribly unfortunate events to our attention. Until now, I didn't know the complete story.

I am shocked and concerned !
 
matt
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 10:56 pm

I used to work for NX as a flight attendant when the Jeddah crash happenend. Actually, I had bidded for those flights, but because I had low seniority, I was not chosen.

Nationair was a shabby operation in every sense of the word. You wouldn't believe the things I saw and heard. And you would be horrified at the condition of the equipment they flew. The four DC-8-61s were in horrible shape. The two -62s and the two -63s were at bit better, but still not great. The 747s (ex-Wardair) were getting very, very old. As for the 757s which they inherited from Odyssey International, they were in good shape when NX got them, but a year later, they were in rough shape.

I have the "official" accident report from the Saudi govt here. Too bad it's not on the Web. Clearly, NX is to blame for the Jeddah crash.

Matt
Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
 
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yyz717
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 11:31 pm

Hey Matt, in what way where the DC-8-61's in horrible shape?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Turin_airport
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Fri Jan 25, 2002 11:44 pm

What a sad and tragic story. I really hope that people who did these crimes are now locked in prison.
This also shown how important are unions (too many people forget their role in protecting worker's job and dignity).

T_a
 
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SafeFlyer

Fri Jan 25, 2002 11:50 pm

Please do not have any doubts about the maintenance standards at Air Canada, my friend. While AC may not be my favourite carrier, and lord knows it has its faults and problems to sort out, it does, however, have an oustanding worldwide reputation for safety. Air Canada's maintenance policies are top-notch.

Matt, you were mentioning the horrid condition of the ex-NX DC-8's. I can recall in 1988 or so, our maintenance crews at Worldways serviced one of the NX DC-8's at NX's request. We normally never serviced their aircraft, but I think this was a one time deal.(Worldways operated 4 ex-CPAir DC-8-63 aircraft). They (WG maintenance crews) told us they were absolutely shocked and appalled at the condition of the aircraft, and refused to "sign off" on it. I don't recall the details, but I do indeed remember Worldways refusing to service any NX aircraft in the future.
 
matt
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 12:58 am

RE the horrid state of NX's aircraft...

The -61s were in rough shape. They were plagued by numerous mechanical problems, but it was especially the inside of the a/c that I recall. The specific a/c involved in the JED crash (C-GMXQ) was referred to by NX staff as "MX Questionnable". Isn't that sad, considering what happened?

The seats were extremely old and had not been replaced in years. One of the -61s did not even have overhead bins. Instead, there was a rack, just like a bus. Too funny. The -61s and -63s had 259 seats (full to capacity), which meant that flight attendant jumpseats had to be installed here and there in the a/c (they were called "highbacks"). They were located where normal passenger seats were located but had high backs and extra seatbelts (straps). It looked really strange. Of course, there were also "normal" forward- and rear-facing jumpseats. The galleys were often "inop", as were the lavatories. On C-GQBF (an ex-Quebecair -63), the rear left door always made a funny noise on takeoff (hence its nickname "QB Fart").

And that's just the beginning. The Operations staff at NX were not always well coordinated. I recall my flight from YMX to LGW on July 12 (the day after the Jeddah crash). We were scheduled on the 747. It went "mechanical". Since they had to fly the 400 and some passengers to London that night, they sent two DC-8s. We left at 3 am back-to-back, but once we got to London, there was no way for the flights to come back (the awaiting pilots were 747 pilots). So the DC8 pilots had to have their minimum crew rest (12 hours), then fly home. The whole schedule was screwed for a week. That's the way it was all the time. I think I've only left on time once or twice...

Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
 
A330DAT
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 1:06 am

I remember the Jeddah accident quite well. http://www.nationair-canada.com/chrono.html

I was once waiting at immigration at New York's JFK airoprt a few years back, when behind me came a Nationair crew. I will never forget the look on their pale faces. When speaking to them it became clear what had happened. They had problems before the landing and at the moment of touchdown, the DC-8 had lost all hydraulic pressure. The aircraft rolled to a stop at the end of the runway. They didn't even have enough power to turn the nose wheel to taxi to the gate and had to be towed. It was a close one indeed.
 
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Matt

Sat Jan 26, 2002 1:22 am

I know exactly what you mean about the NX DC-8
interiors. Once, I worked an SDQ turnaround, arriving SDQ at around 11:00 p.m. Parked next to our WG aircraft was an NX DC-8. As both aircraft arrived within a few minutes of each other, we were on the ground for the same period of time, awaiting the re-catering/grooming and re-boarding of pax for the northbound sector. We ran into an NX Purser and F/A in the terminal who, like us, escaped for a quick cigarette. They "invited" us to see for ourselves what kind of aircraft they had to work on. We walked over to the NX DC-8, and boarded. Shocked does not even begin to describe what we saw. You described it to a T, so I won't elaborate. Worldways may not have been Wardair, but the company did keep it's DC-8's and
L-1011's in very good shape, and CLEAN!

Also, my sister worked for Wardair for 12 years as an F/A and subsequently moved up to Marketing Director by 1986. In 1991, after the PWA buyout of WD, she worked for a firm that sent her to YUL on business.
She groaned as she learned it would be an NX flight (YYZ-YUL). She was even more shocked when she boarded the ex-WD B-747 in YYZ, complete with the original WD interiors. She could not believe how shabby and utterly filthy the interior was. She stated it made her somewhat sad and depressed to see this once
great Wardair aircraft in the state it was under Nationair.

Canadi>nBoy
YYZ
 
matt
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 2:15 am

You're right, Canadi>nBoy. The 747s (the two ex-Wardair ships, the two ex-TWA ships and the rest) were in pretty rough shape. The ex-Wardair (DJC and FUN) had the same seats (every section had a different colour), the aft one being yellow (they called it the sunshine section, where the action was). Filthy is not a strong enough word to describe the state of those aircraft. Plus, the scheduling was so tight that there was hardly any time for grooming and cleaning. However, I must admit that working the 747 was better than working the 8's...
Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
 
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yyz717
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 3:02 am

Wow....great stories guys!

I was flew a WG DC-8-63 YYZ-ATH (via Prestwick)....12 hours on a -63 but service & aircraft were fine. That was back in 88. Then NX took over the charter route in 89. Ugh.....can you imagine 12 hours in an NX DC-8-61?


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
matt
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 3:13 am

Actually, I can imagine 12 hours on an NX DC-8. NX would consistently ask (or force!) its crews to work "overtime", even though it was against the rules (Transport Canada, Union, etc.). Some of the turn-arounds were incredibly long, YYZ-PDL-YYZ being the longest I've worked.

However, the flights from YVR to Europe were always the longest. YVR to YYC/YEG to AMS/FRA/LGW/MAN/etc. Very long, but always on the 747.
Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
 
Guest

Matt

Sat Jan 26, 2002 3:30 am

Matt, I sympathize with ya! WG also had YYZ-PDL-YYZ turnarounds, for about 3 months, until F/A's and the union screamed for them to stop. They did. When my seniority was low, I worked 2 YYZ-PDL-YYZ's. The crew was on the verge of collapse upon landing at YYZ.
They were pretty brutal.

Also, in the summer of 1989, WG thought it would be
GREAT! if they operated crews on YYZ-PIK-YYZ runs, with 12 hours rest! The union and F/A's reluctantly agreed to try it out. I flew one of these pairings, and let me tell ya, we got about 4 hours sleep in PIK.
On the return leg of the pairing, we did not know if we were coming or going, we were that exhausted and totally disoriented. Shortly afterwards, WG stopped these pairings as well.

I also did my share of YVR-FRA / LGW / CPH flights.
You are right, they were brutal, but at least the WG crews had 3-4 day layovers on these, plus we only worked one flight sector either way, positioning home on AC or CP or WD. Our collective agreement stipulated we were guaranteed 24 hour crew rest after 1 turnaround or overseas pairing. By 1990, we were guaranteed 80 hours. Any F/A who wished to exceed this limit did at his/her own discretion. We were never forced to work overtime. There were times when I exceeded my block total by about 15-20 hours. That may not sound like a lot of time to one who workks on the ground, but for an F/A, let's say 90 hours a month is really pushing it. But then again, the point is, at WG, it was our CHOICE to do this. And believe me
(I know you know) this made all the difference in the world.

We really felt for you guys at NX. I don't know how on earth many of you could put up with it and remain there. But...I suppose when one loves flying, and a job is a job, that says it all.

Sincerely
Canadi>nBoy
YYZ
 
matt
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 3:45 am

Canadian B>y,

Wow, our experiences are similar. But your working conditions were so much better! We had no limits on the number of overseas pairings we could do in a row. You might now believe me, but at NX, there was such a thing as a 17-day pairing. I still have them at home (I will keep them as a reminder...). One I worked went like this:

1 YYZ-LGW (1 night in LGW)
2 (in LGW)
3 LGW-YYC-YVR (2 nights in YVR)
4 (in YVR)
5 YVR-YEG-FRA
6 arrive FRA, then deadhead to AMS (2 nights in AMS)
7 (in AMS)
1 AMS-YYC-YVR (1 night in YVR)
2 YVR-LGW (1 night in LGW)
3 (in LGW)
4 LGW-YEG-YVR (2 nights in YVR)
5 (in YVR)
6 YVR-PIK-MAN
7 arr MAN, then d/h to LIS via LHR (2 nights in LIS)
1 (in LIS)
2 LIS-YMX (1 night in YMX)
3 YMX-YYZ

Believe it or not, this is true. Granted, although those were common, there were many YYZ/Europe/YYZ pairings (some were 1 day, others were 3 or 4). That was the good part of the job!!
Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
 
Guest

Matt

Sat Jan 26, 2002 4:06 am

Actually, I do believe you, without question. I just hope to God you and your crew were single! I have to tell you, there is no way that length of a pairing would ever have been allowed at WG. Unbelievable that NX
would subject you to that. Not to mention the hell on earth a pairing like that would be if you didn't get along with some of the crew!

One of the longest pairings I did at WG went like this:

1. YYZ-FRA
2. Arrive FRA, position BA to LGW
3. LGW (layover)
4. LGW (Layover)
5. LGW-YVR (overnight YVR)
6. YVR-AMS
7 Arrive AMS
8 AMS (layover)
9 AMS-YVR (overnight YVR)
10 Position home YVR-YYZ AC/CP

LOL...I have to tell you this one. Once, WG crew sked really screwed up. I was on GDO's, and they called me, begging me to to a 3 day pairing, as they were short crew. I agreed. I positioned on Canadi>n to LGW, where I was to spend 2 nights, then join up with an incoming crew from YYZ for the return flight to YYZ.
Well, the crew came, a FULL crew. I called crew sked.
They asked me to remnain in LGW for one more night, and fly home with the next crew the following day. I happily agreed, as I was earning per diem, and seeing my friends in Brighton. Soooo, next crew flies in, a FULL crew! Uh huh. The ISM and I called YYZ crew sked. They were a little embarrassed, and asked me to remain there for one more night! LOL. Again, I happily agreed. Next day, SAME THING. By this time, I have more than missed my next block assigned pairing, and I really wanna come home! I called crew sked, who had completely forgotten about me, and where I was! They then put me on an LH flight to FRA, where I was to join up with a crew returning to YYZ. Crew is there in YYZ, and again, it's a full complement. The WG flight is oversold, so I can't even ride home on that, as even the flight deck observer seats are all assigned. I and the Captain of that flight, who thought my "vacation" was wonderful, called crew sked, who, by now, red faced with embarrassment, booked me on LH to YYZ that afternoon. In short, I positoned to LGW, spent 5 days there, and positioned home from FRA. Nice vacation! Granted, this kind of error was rare, if it ever happened at all, but, I got me $700 in per diem, and spend time with me pals in Brighton! Love ya and miss ya, WG!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

 
matt
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 4:17 am

Wow! That's a real screw-up! NX screwed up all the time and I've heard of stories like yours, but not for 5 days in LGW. One friend of mine spent 3 days positioning all over Europe, but it wasn't as bad as your story... I can see why they were embarrassed!

The pairing you desribe in long, but you had longer layovers. That makes a big difference. From what I hear now, layovers (for all Canadian carriers) are getting shorter. Gone are the days of the 5-day layover in EDI (NX's best pairing!). Even at AC, some LHR layovers are as short as 14 hours! But most are between 24 and 30 hours. This month, AC even offers a 2-day layover in CUN!!! (Shocking for AC, since they usually manage to find a way to get you in and out of there as fast as possible! I have access to all AC pilot pairings, which are interesting to look at).

Question: On the Western Canada/Europe flights, what equipment did WG use? And where did you "pit stop" for fuel. I imagine the legs were too long for either the DC-8 or the L1011.
Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
 
Guest

RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 4:34 am

Matt. Indeed, the fun-filled days of long layovers are gone for the most part, it would seem. Many of my ex-WG F/A colleagues are with TS or SSV, where layovers are anywhere from 24-36 hours. I, personally, don't see the point in being an F/A with blocks like those.
WG really did have some fantastic pairings! 3-4 day Honolulu from YVR, for example.

In answer to your question, WG utilized both the DC-8 and the L-1011 for the Western Canada-Europe runs.
The DC-8 could make it non-stop YVR-CPH, but the L-1011, surprisingly, if the winds were not favourable, would pit-stop in Iceland (the MOON!). On the westbound Europe-Western Canada runs, the L-1011 did in fact go non-stop FRA-YVR, winds pending. The DC-8 could as well. But, there were many a flight
where Gander was the glamorous stop! We found the L-1011 more "roomier" obviously, for these long runs, and the DC-8's would make us feel claustrophobic after 7 hours. Once, when everyone was asleep (FRA-YVR), we played "hide and go seek" with 4 little brats on the plane. They drove us up the wall, they insisted on playing again and again and again. Finally, we locked them in one of the lavs! LOL. Ohhhhh, those brutal
WG F/A's.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

By the way, believe it or not, my absolute favourite layover destination (and a lot of WG crews) was
Ayr, Scotland, just outside of Prestwick. Did you ever layover there? Beautiful Beautiful coastal Scottish town. Our hotel rooms were so small, you could lie on the bed and change the TV channels with your feet!
LOL.

This has been fun, reminiscing like this.

John
YYZ
 
captaingomes
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Stoooop!

Sat Jan 26, 2002 4:43 am

You guys are making me miss MY JOB!!! STOP ALL THIS WONDERFUL F/A CHAT!!! I miss my Royal pairings so much, it was great. I am trying to focus now on finishing my school and my licenses, and not go back to being a flight attendant. But it was the most fun I've had in my life.

"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
matt
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 4:49 am

Wow. I'm surprised to see that the 8 and the 1011 could fly those distances without refueling (winds pending, of course). That's great. Of course, at NX, the 747s had no problem, but some of the 8s often had to use Gander (even to/from YYZ).

When everyone is asleep was the best time to kick back and relax. Eastbound, it was great. Westbound, however, with all the sun, it was harder... (could I have more coffee, please?). To be quite honnest, I was probably not the best f/a. For me, the attraction was the layovers, so I must agree with you know that with such small layovers, it's not really worth it anymore. When I look at the AC pairings, I just think "why?". They are so short (especially within North America). Even on the YVR-HNL-SYD-HNL-YVR, crews only get 24 hours in HNL, SYD and HNL respectively. Whoa!

Unfortunately, I never had a layover in PIK (or Ayr), but I've heard of it. Sounds wonderful. But the UK was a popular destination. I might be forgetting some, but my layovers include LGW (of course!), MAN, GLA, BHX, NCL, LBA, EXT, EMA, EDI, DUB. Off the Island... CDG, MRS, BDX, NTE, NCE, MLH, TLS, LIS, OPO, FCO, FRA, AMS, BRU, VIE, PDL (yes, once we actually got to spend the night!). That's all I can remember... But never CPH (we didn't fly there), which is too bad.

Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
 
Guest

RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 5:14 am

Matt. LOL...Buddy, I too was not exactly the "Poster F/A" for behaviour and deportment! Hmmmm, never would you find MY name for WG F/A of the year!
I was being constantly asked by ISM's and supervisors to PLEASE try and smile at the passengers. LOL. Seriously. Well, what can I say? If I don't feel like smiling, I don't. besides, if there's one thing I hated, it was the phony smiles and attitudes of some of the F/A's. Aye yi yi yi yi.

But, all in all, I was pretty good to the pax. And, like you, it was the incredible layovers that really kept me there. I remember one flight from YYZ-AMS. I was exhausted, and we had a lot of turbulence. I was mid-galley purser, and was opening up and closing cabinets in the galley, "looking" for something. One of my colleagues asked what it was I was looking for? I replied, "I'm lookin for the glamour they promised us in training". My one fault...okay okay, ONE of my faults, was my short temper and fuse with ignorant and rude pax. I would marvel at the patience of other F/A's, compared to mine. Most times, I could manage to conceal my anger, but I have one of those faces that gives away every emotion known to man.

Your layover list is great! Aaaaah, PDL! DON'T get me started on PDL! Heheheheheheh *snicker* *snicker*.

Yes, our DC-8's could make it non-stop, BUT, believe me, by time we landed in YVR from FRA or LGW, etc, we were literally flying on fumes!

CanuckBoy
YYZ
 
matt
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 5:24 am

Ha ha! I, too, was certainly not a model f/a. Sometimes, I wondered why I was doing it... I guess for the travel and the money (I had to find a way to pay for my studies, and what a better way!). Oh, and when I say money, I don't mean "the good money" as we well know... (however, the perdiems were great!).

I still remember the time when this very old woman "ordered" breakfast. "I'll have corn flakes, and some tea if you have any", she asked politely, as I burst out laughing. After the meal was over, she asked if she could help out with the dishes!! I should have said: "Here's my trolley. You have rows 66 to 48 to clear up!" But I managed to keep my cool.

I have to admit that I, too, was reprimanded by the flight director. I would spend tons of time in the cockpit chatting with the pilots (the technical aspects of the flight and the "plane talk" were really interesting). A couple of times, a patient flight director would come and get me in the cockpit saying "Your passengers are furious! Don't you think you should be IN YOUR SECTION?" Hmmm... Oh well. Can you imagine doing that today with a 12-hour layover in Regina awaiting you at the end of your day? No way!

Matt
Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
 
Guest

RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 5:43 am

LOL! Oh my God! Yeah, I hear ya! Once, when doing Hot Towel service, this bitch of a woman looked at me as I handed it to her with the tongs, and asked, in a sarcastic tone, "What are THESE for?" Equally sarcastic, I replied "For your FACE, honey".

On an ACA-YYZ flight, there was this BITCH and her
equally rude husband sitting in the rear cabin on the DC-8. During bar service after take-off, I asked her what she wanted to drink. She stared at me, gave me a dirty look, and looked back at her magazine. Already, Johnnie Boy was starting to fume!
I asked her once again, nicely. her husband looked at me, and said (no joke) "My wife doesn't speak to the help". He then went on to order hers and his drinks.
Ummm hmmmmmm. Same attitude from them during dinner service. The other pax seated around them were amazed I didn't blow my top at their rudeness.
(I won't tell you how their dinner portions "accidentally" fell on the galley floor prior to serving them).
Finally, I couldn't take these two pricks anymore. I walked up to them and asked the husband if I could see their boarding passes. He looked surprised, as did she.
I asked him gain. He asked why. I looked very serious and said it was a matter of pax loads and the manifest which we needed to verify prior to landing in YYZ (or some bullshit like that). he handed me the two boarding passes. i pretend to study them. I glance at the boarding passes, then at the two of them. they look nervous now. He asks me if everything is alright.
I reply, "Well, it would seem so, although I'm a little confused about something". he asks what is so confusing, with a rude smirk on his face. I reply
"Well, according to Worldways and M.O.T policies, there are strict guidlines which stipulate that all livestock are to be transported in the cargo hold, NOT the passenger cabin". Seriously. I then put the two boarding passes on his table tray, offer my name in case he wants to write a letter, and walk away. The pax sitting near these two laughed and applauded. They were as good as gold after that. AND, they never wrote in to the company.

Ohhhhhhh, Johnnie was BAD F/A!!!(when the situation called for it). Can you imagine THAT scenario in an F/A training video!! LOL.

John
 
malina
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RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 5:47 am

Quite funny to read all these stories about Nationair.
I myself was a passenger on NX in 1987, BRU-YMX-BRU, on one of their DC8's.
At that time, NX was the airline with the cheapest fares from Europe to Canada.
Yes, of course, the planes were worn out, and service was not the best. But so what. As a passenger, you get what you pay for, and as an employee, you work who you work for. I mean come off it, it was the Canadian Aeroflot at that time. I still loved being on a DC8, even though the windows were milky. And I arrived in one piece.
Lucky, after all that I have read here.
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Regards
Mike
 
matt
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 5:56 am

Canadia>nBoy,

LOL!! Oh, nasty! "I don't talk to the help"? What's with that? Sounds like Karen on Will & Grace (whom, by the way, I adore). She would be quite the f/a...

I have to run... Listen, we have to continue this "conversation". It brings back good (and some bad) memories.

Chat with you soon!

Matt
Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
 
Guest

RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 5:59 am

It's been a blast chatting with you, too, Matt. Take good care, and perhaps we'll catch up with one another
here soon.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

John
YYZ
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 6:12 pm

Keep them coming PLEASE!!
I would really like to be a Flight Attendant when i am older, and you are both preparing me  Smile!!  Big thumbs up!!

Have fun, and looking forward to more BITCHES!! hehehe...
cya
mike
 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

Robert Obadia

Sat Jan 26, 2002 6:45 pm

What ever became of Robert Obadia? ie: Dead/Alive/Bankrupt/Rich/Crazy/Jail.........
 
lxlgu
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 7:12 pm

RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sat Jan 26, 2002 8:28 pm

Brings back memories of my days on Luxair 707s
Good times!
I remember once during a bar service asking a pax
what they would like to drink!
No response and after asking three times-just smoke
coming from a cigarette that was somewhere under
a very thick beard
The FA working with me also tried
We gave up and she said to the pax next to them
Excuse me madam,your hedgehog is on fire!
Never a dull moment working with her!
Cheers!
Tony
 
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yyz717
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Sun Jan 27, 2002 3:37 am

Where the hell is PDL?

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Av8trxx
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 7:08 am

Words From The Nationair Webmaster

Tue Jan 29, 2002 9:50 am

Found this in my E-mail. Passing the message along as requested:

"First of all, thank you to the original poster who made mention of the site. I think it's important that people know the truth behind Nationair, the crash and the story that never made the press. I knew the entire crew that died in Jeddah, several of whom were very close friends. So you can understand how this is a bit of a sore point with me. Especially after losing a battle with management (the individual is a member here) to get them paid for the flight they died on... because "they never finished the flight".

Hard to believe, but I get e-mail from people DEFENDING Obadia, and the people who carried out his orders. (Not all of it friendly and/or using more
than one syllable words) This, from some people who still work at places like Skyservice, and until recently, Canada 3000/Royal.

1. Robert Obadia, to the best of my knowledge, is NOT in prison, and last I heard, was involved with some airline in South America, but then I heard from some terrified employee of a small European airline that was convinced that Obadia was going to buy his company. He basically skipped Canada after promising to pay some of the people he owed money to- in order to escape prosecution.... and promptly reneged on the deal.

If anyone knows the location of his son, tell him the lawyers are looking for him to pay him some money owed to him. This, the result of a lawsuit filed against Obadia by employees back in 94.

2. NO-ONE went to prison or was charged in any way shape or form regarding the crash. In effect, all those people died for nothing. In fact, the Canadian Government covered things up and knew Nationair was unsafe prior to the crash, and finally admitted that the safety review they denied ever doing - existed - only a few years ago.

3. Yes, I removed the names of the flight attendants on the quote page. One of the families found if painful to read, but felt it important to show others just what kind of people were involved. Another family involved asked that I remove the names involved, and I respected their wishes. However, the quote never mentioned "English bitch" as someone mentioned. It was "At least we finally got rid of _____ and _____." And was made by Celine Duperre. A Supervisor in In-Flight Services. It's been 11 years, and I still remember it. That and the letter from Georges Tchoryk in Human Resources telling other flight attendants in Jeddah
to "stop licking their wounds" and get on with their lives.

4. PDL is Ponta del Gada, in the Portuguese Azores. (Same group of islands that the Air Transat flight made that glider landing at this past summer). About 6 hours there from YYZ and 6:45 back if memory serves. Long day but excellent crew sandwiches!

5. At one point, WG subcontracted NX to do some flying for them, aircraft and perhaps pilots only. (My memory isn't to clear on this) After 1 or 2
flights, the WG crews refused to get on the aircraft.

6. There are (or at least weren't back then) ANY Transport Canada regulations governing how long a flight attendant can work. It is/was totally determined by the process of collective bargaining. The only regulations were for Pilots. Catch was a clause that allowed them to extend their duty day at their discretion. In fact, there were regulations regarding the length of time a truck driver could drive but none for FAs. Further, I seem to recall reading somewhere
that an aircraft carrying cattle could not fly without operative air conditioning. However, human passengers could fly in aircraft without operative air conditioning... and often did at NX, and other carriers too I'm sure.

Thanks for reading and discussing!"

 
airman99o
Posts: 871
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 1999 4:15 am

RE: Words From The Nationair Webmaster

Tue Jan 29, 2002 11:29 am

Amazing wording in regards to that flight. I feel for the ex employees of this airline. How Horrid that man must have been to work for. I know people love flight attending, I am one and Love it to death but I don't think I would put up with the mess that went on there.
I am floored that people have the gall to write and give you hell about that web page and all. and to know that there are people like that still working in the industry sickens me.


Airman99o
Safety is Everyones Responsibility.
 
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yyz717
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:34 pm

Av8trxx et al....thanks for the info on this tragic event and the NX stories.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
N6801
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2001 11:25 pm

RE: For The Crew Of Nationair Flight 2120

Wed Jan 30, 2002 12:10 am

It shocks and disgusts me to no end that the ‘people’ guilty of gross negligence resulting in the loss of human life (i.e. manslaughter) can get off virtually scot-free. A modest fine, a reprimand or nothing at all is what the families of the deceased have to live with on top of the senseless loss of a loved one. Not that anything could ever bring those dear to them back, but there is such a thing as adding insult to injury. I simply cannot fathom it.

This made me think back to the crash of a LANSA Lockheed Electra in August of 1970, where a group of American scholars was among the deceased. ‘Doctored’ maintenance reports and an overloaded aircraft, amongst other factors, contributed to the horrendous circumstances.

You look at this photo of the unwary scholars boarding their ill-fated Lockheed Electra that summer afternoon and you wish you could reach out, tap them on the shoulder and shout, “For Gods’s sake, DON’T board that aircraft”!: http://www.august91970.com/Boarding%20the%20plane%20that%20crashed.htm How trusting we all are, when you really get down to it, once we take our places in an aircraft and fasten our seatbelts. We entrust our lives to the fact that ‘everyone responsible has done their job’. What else can we do?! (Anyone interested in reading up on this crash, can do so via http://aviation-safety.net/database/1970/700809-0.htm and http://www.august91970.com/ for the human interest version. It’s heartbreaking to read). My thoughts are with the victims and the families of those who perished in the Nationair and LANSA crashes.

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