IndianicWorld
Topic Author
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Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Sun Jan 27, 2002 11:18 pm

Im wondering why Singapore is such a large airport? I know its a hub, but mainly only for SQ and QF/BA. I ask this as I see tat so many airlines fly to this small country, yet they dont have the same feed traffic as an SQ in this instance. I dont see how the demand is there for all these carriers. Can anyone explain please...

ciao
 
9V-SVE
Posts: 1953
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Sun Jan 27, 2002 11:21 pm

I think............Lots of Connections. Like alot of people flying SYD-SIN are not actually flying to SIN, they are just using SIN as a stopover, because SIN has many airlines.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Sun Jan 27, 2002 11:25 pm

true about that, but SQ would in this case have the major advantage of connections, as it would cost much more for transfers airline to airline. Thats why I wonder how they can get so many carriers.

ciao
 
airpearl
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2001 7:42 pm

RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:17 am


Changi is the entry point not only for Singapore; for many, it is also the natural hub for those heading for neighbouring countries such as Indonesia and Malaysia. These three countries alone have a population base of some 200 million people.

 
Andreas
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:26 am

Well, great infrastructure, Changi is one airport that actually works efficiently. I'ver tried that 20 minutes rule from landing to jump into a taxi: It works perfectly well, even during "rushhours". If they work like that behind the stage, too, well...I would use SIN as a hub anytime, and for quite some time there have been no other comparable airports around.
BKK Don Muang is far from being efficient (but I love it!!), maybe the new one..? KUL Sepang: Possibly quite good but wasn't around when Changi grew to be a hub, CLK is too far away, but obviously becoming a hub, too (Those Kaitak memories...).
As a stopover destination SIN is quite lovely...
Lots of good reasons, but what it comes down to: I guess they were there with a workable concept when such a concept was needed for South East Asia. Perfect timing and good execution of a good concept.
Regards
Andreas
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
IndianicWorld
Topic Author
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:33 am

good points there Andreas, but I just wonder how they seem to attract so many carriers from all over the world. With a population of only 3 million it just is strange how big it is. Also SQ is an airline i see falling from grace soon. Its business is mainly transit, and that is a very volitile position to operate in in a depressesd environment. Somehow I just cant see how the demand is driven for airlines like THY, Indian Airlines and Emirates that dont get feed through the city.

ciao
 
Andreas
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:04 am

SIN is and has always been geographically in a very good position: Right in the middle (well not exactly) between Europe and Australia, a route that is currently not flown non-stop (and it will stay that way at least for the next 10 years, probably longer), so it's basically a connecting hub to Europe, Australia, East Asia, and you don't need a big city for that, just enough capacity and infrastructure, and they obviously have that. The inhabitants of SIN are, so to speak, a nice add-on in terms of turnover, especially since there are many business people that travel a lot, probably many leisure travellers (living standard is quite high in SIN).
Business travel btw seems to be generally important, as these guys pay a lot of money when travelling.
I guess Dubai/Emirates is currently trying to follow the same strategy, and it might work: Good infrastructure, well-reputed local carrier, good connecting point for the whole Middle East, though even less people living there, (and at least Sharjah and Abu Dhabi have airports of their own), steeply growing tourism, that all travel by air (seems to be a very important point for the Emir of Dubai).
I don't think SINs position is that volatile, they have their position, SQ is tightly bound into Star Alliance, that brings at least StAl carriers to use SIN as a hub, as I said, there are not many airports like SIN close to SIN, and in order to achieve such a position you have to take away customers from SIN, and why should they go, if SIN works efficiently? Competitive pricing? Yes maybe, but SIN will not just sit there and do nothing if, say KUL, uses dumping prices.
Many good reasons I guess, that prove you don't really need a strong domestic market to succeed, though I'll gladly admit, it helps a lot!
Regards
Andreas
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
spk
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:09 am

SIN is being used as Star Alliance hub for SE Asia. Lots and lots of transit passengers and far fewer O/D passengers. The design of the airport reflects this by giving a very good facilities for transit passengers.

If you look at the map you'll find that Bangkok is more appropriate hub in terms of its geography but the infrastructure is not there to accommodate transit passengers. I would have gone mad if I were stuck at BKK's transit lounge for more than 3 hours while at SIN there's so many things to do.

And because of the airport, SQ benefits greatly because it receive tons of feeds from many carriers.

The Thai government has expedited the construction of the new Bangkok airport which is supposed to be world-class (unlike the ghetto atmostsphere at Don Muang). If Thailand can win back the airlines it'll in turn benefit Thai Airways which lose a major number of customers because of the airlines' decision to move their hubs to Singapore.

After 30 years of political struggling, the new Bangkok airport is being built at the fastest pace possible. It'll open in 2004-2005.
 
flying-b773
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:51 am


i agree with indianic world that SIN is too big. basically, i dont think SIN needs 2 terminals, let to say the 3rd one.. ok, to be fair, the 2 terminals work pretty well, but the capacity is kinda not very efficiently used. Terminal 1 is busy in the morning, evening, and night. the afternoon is very quiet. As for terminal 2, more take offs/arrivals, but i hope there r more traffic. if the 2 terminals were to combine, i think it would still work quite well..
but just wondering, why is it that the traffic volume is so low in the afternoon, and no traffic during graveyard hours?
 
bobcat
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:56 am

I actually fell SIN could be a little bigger.
Everytime I go there(either making
connections or staying for a few days),
the terminal always seemed crowded.

It is one of my favourite airports. Nice
and clean, just like the city.
 
docpepz
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:55 am

Many many Singaporeans travel at least once a year. Qantas can actually function as Singapore's second national carrier, judging by the number of places to fly to ex SIN. London, Paris, Frankfurt, Rome, Hong Kong, Jakarta, Bombay and all major cities in Australia.

anyway most people flying into SIN never get out of the airport....... On average, only 15% of people on any given SIA flight is Singaporean.


and SQ has the same feed traffic as the rest of the carriers flying into SIN-just the 4 million population base of Singapore. There are no domestic networks to feed into SQ's international network.

 
Mark_D.
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:18 am

SIN in the years to come I think probably is going to decline in importance, in its 'fuel stopover for European<-->Southeast Asia and Australasia' role, as even more long-range jets come out that bypass that need entirely.Just like Dubai now has to rely much more on its 'regional superhub' status than the fuel-stop-for-longhauls role, that it once had as well.

But, also like Dubai in its own region, SIN still wins out in the infrastructure and also political stability and even also local economic prosperity departments, relative to anything else nearby, even considering major and really quite impressive in their own right upgrades nearby, like KUL recently. And BKK soon, as mentioned above.

So who knows, maybe indeed SIN will experience traffic dropoffs ten or even five years hence, but me I don't expect them to be precipitous, not with air transport numbers still expected to grow generally and worldwide, year by year, even after such shocks as the Sept. 11 attacks and the added concerns passengers now have to face.
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:36 am

Singapore = Best.

No I'm not being stupid, it the truth. Its a well known fact in asia that Singapore has to be the best.
 
SQ772
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:46 am

SIN does not have a domestic market to feed it like all the other airports have (except CLK). The bulk of SQ's customers are also NOT singaporeans. Singapore's market is just too small to support a massive airline like SQ. SQ realises this and does not heavily depend on local support to be profitable. If you ask any singaporean, few will tell u that they fly SQ all the time. Most singaporeans (holiday makers etc) will fly any other carriers and not SQ. The reason, SQ is too pricey and singaporeans are spoilt for choice when it comes to carriers flying into and out of singapore.

Most singaporeans would love to fly SQ and are proud of the achievements of SQ, but we are just too price conscious to be paying hard earned money for SQ.

Both Changi airport and SQ use singapore as a hub. The hub and spokes concept is clear here. SQ feeds changi with international traffic and transfers them to the rest of the region. As correctly pointed out by Andreas, SIN is a transit point for the region, and will continue to be so if the region pulls its economic and political act together.

As for why there are so many airlines operating into SIN, well, the answer is pretty clear...Singapore is one of the leading financial and business centres in the region, together with HKG, TYO and now China. Business traffic is heavy and that's why there are so many premium passengers coming here.

No airline will consider operating into SIN if there is no demand. Basically, demand and supply. The reason why THY operates to SIN is simply because there is demand...I don't see why it is so difficult to understand that?

Why does SIN need 3 terminals, you ask. Well, we project and anticipate air travel to grow within the next few years. We plan ahead. SIN will lose its competitiveness if we wait till the airport is over congested before deciding to build another terminal.
There's always a better way to fly...
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:00 pm

Actually SIN is expanding. Land is being reclaimed nearby targeting 2 new runways and a possible 4th and 5th terminal to be built within 20 years. Terminal 3 is currently being constructed and will be completed by 2006. The subway is also being constructed and will link the city to the airport by the end of the year.

Why is SIN so successful? Because it works and it has been planned since its inception in 1981.

As the majority of you who have commented here have not been to Singapore, it is pointless to argue why this city state's airport is so important to the region. Until you've been there, then you'll understand why SIN succeeds as it has been nominated the best airport in the world by numerous publications for the past 20 years.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:15 pm

The subway is also being constructed and will link the city to the airport by the end of the year.

Is this on the east-west line that heads up to Pasir Ris ? If so, it would make the task of getting to the city (Queenstown) from Changi much easier for me  Smile

 
Jubilee777
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:30 pm

Our MRT line linking Changi Airport will be available before April 2002.

J777
 
andrew
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:28 pm

Barfbag,

The Changi Airport line is an extension of the East-West line, meaning that you do not have to change trains at all to get to the city centre (City Hall or Raffles Place stations). Queenstown, as you mentioned, is about 4-5 stations west of the city centre. It is a residential suburb, and not part of the 'city' as your comment would suggest.



regards,

Andrew
 
hailstone
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 8:42 pm

barfbag
and queenstown being on the westeast line, you woul dnot even have to change trains at raffles / city hall
 
BarfBag
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:56 pm

Andrew: True... my mistake - its not exactly downtown/CBD. I usually get down between Tiong Bahru and Queenstown to go to where I usually stay at Singapore (with my relations). Its good to know the subway will be up and running soon. No more taking cabs from Changi  Smile
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:43 pm

But surely you won't be dragging your cargo bag through rush hour on the MRT?
 
n949wp
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:53 pm

How much luggage would the MRT allow you to bring onto their trains before they throw you out?

'949
 
andrew
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 3:26 pm

I'm sure there are going to be provisions for luggage on the MRT in the form of racks, but hey, who knows. I'm sure we'll find out in due time


Andrew
 
BarfBag
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 3:44 pm

Guybetsy: Is a rollaboard too much to carry on the MRT ? I have personally never done so; I take the cab to/from Changi every time. MRT/buses are mainly for traveling between relations' places. Considering I usually arrive in SIN on the midday arrival from SFO/LAX I don't think the MRT would be too crowded then. The only place where I see any hindrance is at the turnstiles. But then the MRT is not the best thing I remember about Singapore  Smile All I really recollect (despite my most recent visit being Dec.2001) is the irritating twittering sound before the doors close.
 
9V-SVA
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 4:34 pm

Andrew,

There are racks in place for airport passengers in the newer trains. Instead of the usual 7 seats, they took three away and used the space for racks.

I've been on a train equipped with suck racks.Anyway, for our next spotting meet at T2, I'll be taking the train, as I'm sick of taking bus 53.

9V-SVA
9V-SVA | B772ER
 
SIN_SQ
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 7:08 pm

9V-SVA is correct that newer trains have racks installed for luggage, including TVs and information displays on board.  Smile

Now trains are now running up to either Expo (one of two station on Changi Airport line - other is of course Changi Airport Station -> trains will run between Boon Lay and Airport when it opens this year) or to Pasir Ris.

If u come down to Changi Airport, you will understand why it is so big.  Smile
 
SQ772
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 7:21 pm

Hi 9VSVA,

What can you see at T2? I personally find T2's viewing gallery not very ideal as you can only see a small section of the airport. I would suggest that you travel to Changi Coast Road for the best aircraft spotting location. Then again, you will need a car to be able to get to that area. You will be able to see take offs and landings up close there... well worth spending a few hours there.

When will the MRT line to the airport be ready? and where will it stop?
There's always a better way to fly...
 
n949wp
Posts: 1398
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 8:20 pm

Does the MRT have a website? Would like to see their latest route map.

'949
 
Airbus A380
Posts: 508
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 8:53 pm

The new Changi Airport MRT Extension line will be up and running by 1st Q 2002. The line is an extension of the existing East-West Line. The CAL will branch off from the Tanah Merah Interchange Station. The future CAL service will run from Boon Lay to Changi Airport, but will end at Expo Station instead for now. The CAL service will not run to Pasir Ris. For Pasir Ris-bound passengers, you will have to alight and transfer to another train at Tanah Merah Interchange Station. The expected fare from Changi Airport to City Hall is S$1.60. Please be informed also that beginning March 2002, the MRT as well as public buses will start using smart-cards, called EZ-Link card. The conventional farecards will be phased out by end-2002 for the MRT.

The trains used for the CAL are brand-new trains purchased by the SMRT from Nippon Sharyo Corp at a price of S$11 million each. These new trains will have 2 baggage racks in each of the 6 cabins. 36 LCD TVs have been installed in some of these trains, in preparation for the launch of the Visual Passenger Information System. These trains also boasts better aircon ventilation and fan system as well as wider seats, larger doorway and better interior.

Regards
Ishak
Airbus A380
 
Airbus A380
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:00 pm

Oh yes, as requested, here is the URL for the MRT.

http://www.smrt.com.sg

And here is the link to my other post regarding the contactless EZ-Link card.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/166399/6/

Regards
Ishak
Airbus A380
 
9V-SVE
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:52 pm

Those Japanese Trains are Freezing!
 
andrew
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:03 pm

I'm just remembering what I read a couple of months ago about the Changi Airport MRT station.

The station will be built such that it lies underground and perpendicular to the ECP (East Coast Parkway). This would make it easier for passengers to exit directly to their desired terminal, keeping in mind that the proposed T3 will be built opposite T2, on the other side of the ECP.

This means that when T3 is completed, the entire airport terminal will have a U-shaped layout.



Andrew
 
Airbus A380
Posts: 508
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RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:20 pm

Yes, indeed it will be built in such a way. But one thing in my mind is that, the station which is built directly under the ECP, seemed that it is farther from T1, in my estimation by some 200-300 metres. Are travellators installed for passengers going to and from the station, particularly towards T1?

I also noticed a similar glass extension building being built on the left-side of T1. Is that built for the MRT station entrance from T1?

Regards
Ishak
Airbus A380
 
tsentsan
Posts: 1921
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:48 pm

RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:55 pm

Suggestion: Something like HK's Airport Express?

Feasibility: You need a totally dedicated line and train for that. Makes it pricey. Worth it? You tell me.
NO URLS in signature
 
Jubilee777
Posts: 502
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: Singapore - Why Such A Big Airport?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 2:07 am

For paxs going to T1, they will have to use the Skytrain from T2. The tall glass near T1 is for the T3 entry only.
 
TAA_Airbus
Posts: 491
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 4:34 pm

Its A Gateway To The World!

Thu Jan 31, 2002 8:45 am

I live in Perth, Western Australia.

FoR Australians, Singapore is the gateway to the world (except americas).
And its a gateway to Australia.

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