CcrlR
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Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:28 am

this is wierd but I will tell you what happened



Today was a nice day so I went out to MDW for a spotting and photography trip. When I am out there on the top level of the parking garage and I went back down to the elevators and there is this person sitting in a wheelchair(he wasn't paralyzed) and asking me why I was over here. Then he said that I couldn't do that and I told him that I was doing this because it's a hobby. then he asked me if I was American and I told him that I was american(What does he think I am a taliban member??? and the wierd thing was that he was chinese) Insane . Then he goes on his radio and asked his supervisor about me taking photos. When they said no I left and when I was leaving 3 security guards and one on a bike came to where I was away from the man and told me that it was illegal and I told them I was leaving.


Do you think that the person was stupid for calling those people over there and asking me if I was american? I know all about what happened on 9-11 but this is stupid! The wierd part was that I have been going over there for a lot of times after 9-11 and NEVER get stopped by any police or security guard because I was doing this!!! What do you think about this? I know this happens a lot to you but do you think that they were too suspicious? I see a lot of people watching planes and taking pictures on the airport property and they were never told to leave why shouldn't I be picked out from the other people who do this?

What do you think? I thought about asking them about it and where can I take them though without being asked to leave? What do you do?
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
CcrlR
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:32 am

Whoops Wrong forum!!!!!
Sorry for that!!!!!!!
There is one in the right forum
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
777lover
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:33 am

Show them your camera/binoculars/eye assistants, tell them the truth, like you did. If you do everything they ask and they still ask you to leave, then they're stupid.
 
CcrlR
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:40 am

yeah they are like I said I've been going out there for a long time and I MEVER got hassled!!!!!!!!!
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:52 am

Since when is taking pictures of aircraft, a legitimate hobby, ILLEGAL???? I might have asked them to show me or quote to me the exact law.
 
CcrlR
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:59 am

that's what Jonathin said when he was at Atlanta Hartsfield INTL. Next time I'm asking them that and telling them too.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
NZ767
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 8:18 am

And I always thought taking pics of aircraft was only frowned upon in Eastern bloc countries.

What was the guy doing in a wheelchair?
Was that just a ploy so you didn't think he was security?

Like 777lover said, next time show them your equipment (your photographic gear I mean Big grin).
And better still, let them frisk you to let them know you're not carrying a weapon; assuming you aren't.

Mike (NZWN)
 
CcrlR
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 8:29 am

He was sitting in it like a chair. He had a dustpan and broom with him. I might do that next time have they went away if they seach you?
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:42 am

Had an unpleasant experience with Boeing Security at Renton last week ... they caught me 'trespassing' on a parking lot trying to get in position for a picture, and was given a warning and sent out. They took my picture and personal details and told me that if I was caught again, I would be handed over to the police ....
Not only in Greece ......

- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:46 am

Good for Boeing Security. Dah, if your trespassing...you're doing something wrong but, if you're at a "public" parking lot at a civil airport, I don't see the harm in that.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:51 am

Tell him to go to hell. He wasn't a Police officer so he couldn't do anything. He sounded like a $7.00 an hour rent a cop that was on a power trip same with the rent a cops on the bikes.

It would be a different story if it said Cook County Sheriff or Chicago Police. I tell the security guards at DTW to go to hell all the time. I used to be an airport security, and I know they have no power other than to deny you access on the air operations area or thru certain doors/checkpoints. Anything on the otherside of air operations area only REAL cops have authority over.

Maybe to avoid all kinds of controversy altogether pay for the parking spot and park on the roof, they won't chase you out if you're a paying customer. They might have thought you were trying to steal a car or something rather than do a terrorist act. That might be their only reasoning if they were parking lot security and feared you were trying to steal a car, but if they see you with binoculars and a camera that would be the last thing you would want to carry around with you if you were stealing a car.

 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:54 am

HlywdCatft, You're name wouldn't be Michael J. Lassister of Atlanta would it? Or are you somehow related since you obviously have the same disdain for authority.
 
sushka
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:57 am

I have been stoped about five times already. Usualy I just tell them that there are such people like us who find joy in watching airliners. It is always hard for them to understand  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:00 am

I was at a Bowing parking lot, but it was not marked restricted area .. so I guess I c o u l d have challenged it .. but that would probably involved the police so I figured it wasn't worth the time and effort. The guys were OK, no bullies, they were just doing what they were instructed to ...
Shame though - it means I need to stay away from a couple of good spots at Everett ...

- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
airlinelover
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:07 am

Here's what to do.. Ask them if they want their pic taken.. You're doing a story for a magazine, and it has to do with airliners, photography, and people who try to stop you.. See what they say..  Smile LOL

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
CcrlR
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:14 am

Here's what to do.. Ask them if they want their pic taken.. You're doing a story for a magazine, and it has to do with airliners, photography, and people who try to stop you.. See what they say.. LOL

What if he asks for permission like if you need something to show you are doing this for Airways or some other magazine. i'm going to ask them what Jerden777 said in that forum when he was in Atlanta.


"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
vafi88
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:22 am

Are they stupid or what? it's just the same if you go out in a park and try to photograph nature, they couldn't tell you that photographing nature would cause the plants and flowers to die, would it? Same with planes, you can take pictures of them, they don't have anything (law or command from the security boss) that applies to where you are standing and what you are doing there. Next time, challenge them, make them look like idiots which they are and then take a photo of them! That should teach them to mess with A.net members!
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:22 am

LN-MOW,

Boeing security probably thought you were a spy from Airbus  Nuts
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
mls515
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:29 am

Next time it happens, ask to speak with the supervisor and say that you would just as well like to speak to him/her in their office. Like previously stated, ask to be quoted the law or regualation that bars you from taking photographs. Just be honest.
 
CcrlR
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:31 am

next time I have a photo I made I'll dedicate it to the security guards there it might say something like this
I dedicate this picture to those people that hassled me at Midway! That's right you tried to stop me and look at me now!!!!!!!!!! I put the picture here and look at you all know! You can't stop me and you can't silence the hobby of Avaition photography and spotting!!!

just like this one Chris made

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris weldy



I loved it when he dissed the O'hare Airport police right here.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
CcrlR
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:33 am

If I ever get stopped, arrested or my stuff confiscated I'll call them and ask their supervisor. They might can do something about it.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
NZ767
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:38 am

Yeah, but it's very unlikely that they're members of A.Net so they wouldn't see the pic unless you sent them a copy.

Really, if you want to moan and groan about overzealous airport security, complain to airport management.
The security people are only acting on THEIR instructions after all, albeit without applying due discretion.
Always pays to talk to the man at the top, not the boy at the bottom.  Smile
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:36 pm

HlywdCatft, You're name wouldn't be Michael J. Lassister of Atlanta would it? Or are you somehow related since you obviously have the same disdain for authority.

Heh, no... I'm from Detroit.

I do have a disdain for $7 an hour rent a cops on power trips that really don't have authority to throw someone off the property. I used to be a rent a cop at the airport, spotters would come by, I had no authority to kick them out nor would I ever kick them out in the first place, unless they tried to cross over onto the AOA Air Operations Area. Being that CcrlR was in a parking garage, he was nowhere near the AOA so they had no right to kick him out unless he was suspected of stealing cars, but a car thief would not be carrying binoculars and a camera i don't think, it would be a clumsy getaway.

As for my rants about the Detroit Metro Gestapo Police, yeah they are very unjust. I was in highschool and I went to the airport with my mom, I had just started driving and we were over taking pictures where there were no signs and a cop yells at us for parking there and drops a few cuss words on top of it and I have been yelled at rudely a few other times by cops at the airport I think i probably would develop an animosity towards them. It pisses me off whenever they over abuse their power elsewhere to spotters all over. But I tend to have a disdain for a lot of police, let me tell you up in Detroit area they are corrupt and I have had several issues with them I am not going to get into on an airliners forum.

 
ILOVEA340
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:41 pm

This has most likely been said by someone here but I have not got the time to check each post.

First tell him the truth. Next if he insists on kicking you out ask him for an official sheet of paper that states this rule in its entirety and if this is the case (I doubt it) leave. (you then have no other choice)
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:43 pm

First tell him the truth. Next if he insists on kicking you out ask him for an official sheet of paper that states this rule in its entirety and if this is the case (I doubt it) leave. (you then have no other choice)


To add to that if he doesnt have that sheet of paper, ask him what his authority is to kick you out. He probably thinks you are intimidated because he used an authoratative voice. If you question his authority, he will most likely back down. The only thing that he could do is radio the cops, but being a major city like Chicago and what I believe is that Chicago Police patrol the airports and not their own police, the police aren't going to even want to waste their time with a spotter when there are plenty of other crimes to worry about in that section of Chicago.

 
jhooper
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:48 pm

I've been chased off at CLL for standing BEHIND the fence taking pictures of aircraft on the other side, they claimed it was against new FAA regs. Yea, right.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
yqfca
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:13 pm

In Calgary Edmonton and Vancouver the 3 meter law rules. If you stand on something stay 3 meters (10feet) from the fence. Well once I was 1 meter from the fence to keep the barbed wire out off the bottom of my picture and a $7 rent a cop came over to chase me away. Then I heard on the police frequency that he said he stopped a person that was climbing over the fence.
Okay I was 2 meters too close but there was no need for the cops to hunt me down like a dog.
Those rent a cop are indeed worse then police themselves, cops usually do not bend the truth.
 
justplanesmart
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:01 pm

I have been all around Boeing locations in the Seattle area, and I have yet to see one of their parking lots that is not clearly posted "Private Property. No Trespassing". So I would venture to say that LN-MOW was trespassing, and the Boeing security personnel had every justification in asking him to leave. I agree that there has been a general overreaction to those who are pursuing their hobby, and if it came to a legal challenge, the spotter would prevail, I do not believe it is worth the trouble. If I am asked to leave by security people, I will leave. I just won't be happy about it.  Sad
"So many planes; so little time..."
 
RoyalDutch
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:04 pm

Yeah, I think the guy who threw you out was stupid. In fact, it sounds like nearly everybody in the US is overeacting in the US since Sept. 11th. In Prague, we have Soldiers with AK47 patrolling the airport, but the spotting deck is still open, with NO GUARDS! There's nobody up there to breath down your neck, or yell at you for standing too close to the glass.

I think the best thing for you to do in a situation like yours is to talkd to Airport Management...Rent-a-cops aren't usually the most intelliginet people (otherwise they wouldn't be rent-a-cops  Laugh out loud), and management is usually more willing to listen to reason.

 
geotrash
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:34 pm

One other word of advice...take a microcassette recorder with you and keep it in your shirt pocket. When you see the guards coming, discreetly press the record button. If they continue to challenge you, and you end up in some supervisor's office, the tape might come in handy if they accuse you of being rude or abusive as a way to force their will.

Happened to me outside of Rangely, Colorado one time. I was stopped for speeding and the State Patrol officer read me the riot act (75 in a 55). I was very calm and unemotional, and politely asked to see the radar for verification (my legal right). Call me paranoid, but I had a microcassette recorder running in my shirt pocket. My memory sucks so I always have one in my computer bag to help me keep track of my thoughts.

Anyway, when I showed up in court to challenge the ticket, the officer accused me of being rude and having a bad attitude during the stop. Even if it were true, it would have been unnecessary to mention this, since his radar was correct, and I was speeding. All I wanted was a point reduction for the ticket to keep my insurance rates from skyrocketing.

I simply requested to approach the bench, was granted permission, and played the tape back for the judge. She dismissed the ticket, and reprimanded the officer about his conduct. I received several pats on the back from the other chuckling folks in the courtroom that this guy had stopped. Apparently, he was quite well known for such games, and not well liked by the citizens of that small town.

I have no problem with being ticketed or fined for something if I deserve it, but it really raises my ire when enforcement officials of any kind try to disregard my rights, or are dishonest to get their way. I know their job is a pain in the butt and they are generally held to a higher standard, but there's no excuse for being anything less than professional and honest in their treatment of citizens. Exercise your rights and cover your rear end in the process, CcrlR! Take some great pictures and post them on A.net!
 
NZ767
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:52 pm

Good One Geotrash!!
I always have one going in my pocket whenever I have meetings with my bosses.  Smile
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 5:00 pm

LN-MOW--

You found good spots at Renton?? Haha, I can never get a great spot down there.... There are too many trees and crap at that little parking area west of the airport.
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Mon Jan 28, 2002 5:32 pm

Well, I´m not too familiar with the legal situation in the US, but my basic understanding is the following: if you´re on private property (e.g. an airport) the owner of the premises can stop you from taking pics. Now, I wholeheartedly agree it IS plain stupid; people want to pretend there are increased security measures being taken, so they tackle visible issues.

Daniel Smile
 
CcrlR
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Tue Jan 29, 2002 6:35 am

Yeah that was a good paragraph you put down here. I might do that next time when I go out there. that's a good idea geotrash I wish I would have had that when I was there that day but I will talk to their supervisor when the need has to cone or if this happens again.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
CcrlR
Topic Author
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RE: Got Stopped For My First Time Today

Tue Jan 29, 2002 9:05 am

I'll make sure that this doesn't happen at any other airport that I go through or to.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)

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