airDD
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:06 am

Future Of Brussels Airport

Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:43 pm


A new terminal building is going to be opened in a few months.
I wonder who will use it ?

Traffic dropped with 30% in Nov-Dec after the failure of SN (no more transfer passengers).

What will be the future of the airport, short point to point flights (DAT), no hub activity ? While CDG & AMS are using high speed trains to get Belgians to their airports, will BRU be a ghost airport ?

Any thoughts ?
 
717fan
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:51 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:48 pm

I don't think that BRU will become an ghost airport. Brussels is an important town...
Look at ZRH (who shares nearly the same fate with BRU), traffic is growing in the last weeks and some other airlines fills the gap left by SR's demise...
717fan
 
airDD
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:06 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:51 pm

717fan,

Hopefully BRU won't become a ghost town but SR in ZRH is still flies, SN is gone and is not being replaced...

BRU is an important city but with easily access from neighbouring hubs
 
717fan
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:51 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:56 pm

AirDD,
You're right SR is still flying and will be replaced soon...
but ZRH has easily access to MUC (about 3hrs by train)
and Milan is also not too far...
I think the chance for both is, that they are the biggest international gateways to its country.
717fan
 
airDD
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:06 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:06 am


Any news when the new terminal building in BRU will be opened ?
 
D-aqui
Posts: 207
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RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Tue Jan 29, 2002 2:38 am

AirDD,

EBBR already has the appearance of a ghost airfield! Compared to the times when SN was still taking to the skies, it is somewhat strange to be deprived of the hustle and bustle, although I do not mind as it is more comfortable.

EBBR will surely play its role in the future, because as 717fan has already remared, it is an important town. But the present situation clearly shows that without the number of transfer passengers, there will be no substantial rise in pax traffic in the near future. When coming from LFST this morning I was surprised that DAT has re-started to announce connecting flights during the descent of our flight. That has reminded me of the pre-November 2001 times.

For the employee's sake at EBBR, let us hope the situation will recover.

Although I must admit that the LH A300-600 parked at the gate and seen from the DAT-aircraft, ready to go to Frankfurt, tells its own story...

d-aqui


 
aussie_
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 10:39 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Tue Jan 29, 2002 2:49 am

I agree d-aqui. I flew into EBBR about a week ago from HAM. The airport was quieter than I have ever seen it before and several shops were closed. It was sad to see.

Also my LH flight out of Brussels for February 13 (last I looked) had been changed from an A320 scheduled pre-collapse to an A300-600. Enough said.
 
TERRA
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 2:37 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Tue Jan 29, 2002 2:58 am

Brussels will still have commuter a/c operating to it as it is the only viable destination when doing business in the city, or like me at the airport!
When i was there last week is was the first time that my a/c didn't have to queue to line up on the runway due to virtually no other traffic. The terminal was quiet and from a selfish point of view nice to fly from.
Despite this it is a shame to see the airport in this position. Working for DHL i can say it now seems that we are the biggest operator from the airport.

Rich
 
glider
Posts: 292
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RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Tue Jan 29, 2002 3:00 am

Maybe this doesn't fit to the subject, but I have a question on the LH A300... When does there arrives one at Brussels? I really like to see it...

Maybe Brussels Airport is much quiter, I think it still is a paradise for spotters. There are so much 'new' carriers at EBBR instead of the SN planes.

But indeed, all that happened here is so bad, but... I still like my home airport, and I will always will.

Glider
 
310_engineer
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 7:16 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Tue Jan 29, 2002 6:50 am

About two weeks ago I took LH 4421 dep 10:40 and that was an A300-600.
But I have seen them on the evening flights too.

Regards
mike
 
swake
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 4:47 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Tue Jan 29, 2002 8:13 am

Back to topic
I see a rather grim future for BRU unless the global aviation market picks up again. The new terminal A will attract enough pax but in pier B you can start holding cyclingraces since non-schengen flights will be such a small portion that you can easily close half of the terminal. What extra-Schengen traffic will BRU generate : JFK, BOS, flights originating in the UK (the bulk), flights from central europe, typically 2 or 3 a day, e.g. PRG, BUD, WAW, TLV (maybe they get a separate terminal  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Voila, that's about it. How many pax would that be a day?
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Tue Jan 29, 2002 9:46 pm

Swake add to your list of non schengen flights...

-AA, UA, 2DLs, CO each day
-SQ and Biman 6 times a week
-Amman and flights to North Africa (Moroco, Tunisia, Egypt, Algeria) aswell as flights to Turkije (lots of charters)
-Air Zimbabwe, Cameroon Airlines, Air Gabon and Air Mauritius
-charter flights to the Caribian islands
and you will see that it is not all so bad then you might think at first sight!
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DragonRapide
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 6:59 pm

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Tue Jan 29, 2002 11:05 pm

As a frequent flyer from Brussels I would like to make a couple of points:
1/ AMS, CDG, FRA are not convenient for me. They take about 3 or 4 hours to get to whether I go by car, train or plane.
2/ Having to pass through a big hub when going intercontinental is a nightmare. It is still bareable on the outbound flight because you have first a short flight and then a long duration flight. So when you deplane you are tired but at least you are at your destination. Now on the return flight it is much worse. First of all after having been away from home for some time you really WANT to GET HOME ASAP. Nothing worse then to having deplane 300 km from your home, wait for your connection flight, suffer yet another delay (hubs are always crowded) and risk the loss of your luggage whilst transiting. Or not wanting to risk a delayed flight and opting for the train just to find they are on strike. And driving the 300+km home is not really a sensible and safe option after a 10+ hour flight. Conclusion: direct intercontinental flights are a must for me and I will take them whenever I can no matter the carrier, the service, the airplane type, whether I have frequent flyer miles or whatever. Nothing can beat direct flights. Best thing is when you deplane from a big bird that you touch home gorund. Period.

This brings me to the future of BRU. I am sure there are more people like me. However, the glory and wealth of destinations once offered by SN is gone for ever and will remain so.

I am pretty sure BRU will do reasonably well as an EU destination given that it is the capital of the EU and NATO headquarter. For the same reasons it will be served directly by some intercontinental carriers. That will be all. Some selected long range destinations (as there are today) but no more. And that is fine by me. I still prefer on departure a long duration flight and a connection flight to bring me to my destination over having to do a connection first at FRA, AMS or CDG and then carry on. It would give me a benefit on the reutrn flight.

As for all the terminal space available at BRU (I think the new terminal B opens mid May), I think it will take a long time before it will be filled (if ever). Even when reading through the above mentioned lists (who forgot to mention Switserland and Malta as non Shengen countries), it is not sufficient to give the new terminal a busy feeling. I believe terminal B has around 30 gates. If you add all the destinations mentioned (including the frequency) above together, you arrive at what 60? Heck let it be 90. That is still not much for a Terminal that can take 30 at a time.
 
airDD
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:06 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Wed Jan 30, 2002 8:17 am

DragonRapide,

Thanks for your reply.

I had to go to Brussels from the US westcoast (Seattle) in middle December.

I had a hard time getting to Brussels, basically I flew direct from SEA to AMS and took the car to Brussels.
I hate connecting but anyway all flights between AMS-BRU were sold out (must be small commuter planes) and all the US-BRU flights are from the east-coast.

There are still many long-haul flights into Brussels but it is going to be a tough to attract big carriers since all alliances have been formed with hubs.
...
I remember when SN worked with Delta to Brussels, this worked out perfectly, I have been on many (full) SN flights codeshared with DL from Cincinati or ATL. Sad Delta dumped SN for Air France.
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Wed Feb 06, 2002 9:59 pm

Hey AirDD,

Terminal will open the 15th of May, and the old terminal (near the sattellite) will be closed.

Regards,
Frederic
 
airDD
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:06 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Thu Feb 07, 2002 4:55 am

Sabena 690

Thanks for the info !

What will happen with the old building ?

Is it going to be taken down ?

 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Thu Feb 07, 2002 6:00 am

Hey AirDD,

I think that the old terminal will be used for ceremonial flights, or other things... But certainly they will not take it down ( I think and hope ).

This evening I got confirmation that on May 15 the new terminal will be opened. After 11/09, BIAC thought to stop works to the new terminal!! I am glad they didn't take that decision. I hope that some companys like AA and SQ will decide to fly more to Brussels.

Best regards,
Frederic
 
dutchjet
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RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Thu Feb 07, 2002 6:50 am

I fly out of BRU on a very regular basis, and while it is quieter, it is not a ghost-town. It gives the illusion of a very quiet airport because the SN connecting traffic is gone so there are a lot less people hanging around awaiting connections. Of course, SN was a great loss for BRU, but other carriers will slowly replace the SN service where it makes sense and a profit can be made.
BRU is mainly O&D traffic now.

I usually fly to CO flight out of Brussels about 8 to 10 times per year, and in Dec and Jan the loads looked good and business class was nicely filled up.....a good sign.

Once the world economy improves and the flying public can put the events of 9/11 behind them (remember, transatlantic travel was especially hard hit by that horrible day), BRU will see an upswing in traffic.......a new Belgian carrier will come along at some point and other airlines will increase service into BRU.
 
Guest

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Thu Feb 07, 2002 6:54 am

If BIAC were at all commercially minded, they would offer Ryanair a better deal than Charleroi has given them - that would provide them with substantial additional passenger throughput.

The fact that they haven't speaks volumes...  Insane
 
lumumba
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:16 pm

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Thu Feb 07, 2002 8:30 pm

Pierre klees things that A.A can play a big role in BRU.
Hi is ready to giv a big part of the new terminal only for them?
The new terminal will open 15 of may.
But there are discusing with other big players and Nationwide will start a direct flight jhb-bru.
regards
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
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RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Thu Feb 07, 2002 8:34 pm

Ceilidh, I suspect that were BRU to offer a deal to FR, they would have every other carrier serving the place banging their door down to get the same deal.

Whilst it might improve the passenger throughput, it would likely be commercial suicide to give away landing/parking rights virtually free to everyone.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
DragonRapide
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 6:59 pm

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Thu Feb 07, 2002 8:54 pm

Ceilidh
BIAC is one of the investors in dat.
Why would BIAC want to bring a competitor for dat to BRU??? That's the answer.

About the old terminals, apparently the old pier will be taken down (good riddens) but the satelite will be kept.
At least that's what the papers report. Also it might be that the new terminal will be taken into service only partly (in the beginning) according to a BIAC spokesman on television yesterday.
 
Guest

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Thu Feb 07, 2002 9:05 pm

Lumumba - Nationwide is not about to start services between JNB and BRU. In fact, Nationwide is in serious danger of going bankrupt and isn't going to be doing anything except trying to survive for the near future.
 
LJ
Posts: 4127
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Thu Feb 07, 2002 9:18 pm

Cameroon Airlines will start a second flight to BRU thus that's one flight more.

Dragonrapide, BIAC will not be allowed to favour DAT. If so they'll get in serious trouble with the EU Court of Justice. In that rsepect, all DAT competitord will scrunize every move by BIAC which will benefit DAT.

Regards
Laurens
 
lumumba
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:16 pm

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Thu Feb 07, 2002 9:40 pm

About Nationwide it's in the papers .
so let's see and wait.
regards
 
DragonRapide
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 6:59 pm

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Thu Feb 07, 2002 11:34 pm

Lj, I udnerstand what you say. But the issue was: 'Why doesn't BIAC match the benefits Charleroi offers to Ryanair?' Ceilidh was complaining that BIAC was doing a bad job, I just pointed out that BIAC would not match the Charleroi conditions because they are investing in dat. This has nothing to do with favoritism. No one gets the Charleroi conditions at Brussels so why should BIAC have to offer them to Ryanair and add another competitor to dat?

 
User avatar
apuneger
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RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Thu Feb 07, 2002 11:55 pm

I'm pretty sure that, from the moment that Pier A opens, BIAC will bring down Pier C (including the Satellite). I'm doing my thesis about BRU, and let's say I have some very classified sources...

After the collapse of SN, BIAC had three options: stop all working on Pier A, continue work but only open 50% of the ne concourse, or do as originally planned and open the entire Pier A. The decided to go fot the third option. So, the entire length of Pier A will be opened on May 15th 2002.

As for Pier B's capacity: it's true that Pier B still has lots of room for expansion, but that's just the point. If you build a new concourse, and when you open it it's already full, than you're in big trouble. What I'm trying to say is that BIAC is probably happy with the fact that they still have lots of place for new carriers etc. On the other hand, of course they're not happy with the fact that traffic dropped, because this means that they will see their revenues drop.

Their no. 1 priority must be to attract more Asian carriers (maybe even an Australian?) and some South-American. Oh what the heck, they just need more long haul traffic, that's it...and a good hub operator...

Ivan
Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
 
manni
Posts: 4049
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RE: What About Nationwide?

Fri Feb 08, 2002 2:50 am

What's the story about Nationwide? I know that they have been flying for Sabena from JNB to various destinations in South Africa. I did not know that they have longhaul aircraft. I've seen once a 727 in JNB with Sabena titling added to the Nationwide livery. What type are they planning to fly into BRU. Any date set for the start of this new carrier into BRU? How about the frequencie? Does Nationwide serve any other international destinations?

Apuneger,
It would be great to see a few more longhaul carriers into BRU. But I doubt we will seean Australian carrier into BRU. What happened to the talks, BIAC said they had a while ago, to the far eastern carrier (presumably JAL, ANA, Korean or Asiana)?It would be nice to see CX flying into BRU!!!
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Sabena 690
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RE: What About Nationwide?

Fri Feb 08, 2002 3:04 am

What is that from that Nationwide flight to Brussels?

Apuneger, they are going to take down the pier and the satelite? Really? Good luck with your thesis!!

Ceilidh: don't forget that the government of Charleroi is giving subsidys to Charleroi Airport. This subsidy is normal not allowed, and the EU started an investigation. We will see what it is going to be.

Is Cathay Pacific intended to fly to BRU?

Best regards,
Frederic
 
Guest

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Fri Feb 08, 2002 3:20 am

The rumours about Nationwide operating between JNB and BRU stems from the Swissair MD11 which is still sitting in JNB - SAA have refused to release it until their bills are paid.

Logic alone shows this story to be complete rubbish - 1) why would Nationwide get an MD11 - a type not operated by anyone else in Africa; 2) how could they afford the rentals; 3) who would operate a single long haul aircraft with no backups; 4) why would Nationwide be successful on this route (with the incredibly low yields available on the route, coupled with the ongoing devaluation of the Rand - 40% in the last 12 months) when Sabena failed so abysmally on it; and finally 5) they would be competing with Virgin between SA and Europe which would put their feeder contract at risk.
 
OO-VEG
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 5:31 pm

RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Fri Feb 08, 2002 3:29 am

DAT+ wants to start services to Africa. So that means... transfer passengers from Europe to Africa.
With the comming of VG Airlines it will mean more Long-haul flights from Brussels, so really I don't worry that much about the future of Brussels. It may be very silent now but I think they will catch up with passenger rates in the summer season.
 
manni
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RE: Sabena 690, Ceilidh

Fri Feb 08, 2002 4:03 am

Sabena 690,
CX has no intention to start flying to BRU. I just tought that it would be nice if they did.

Ceilidh,
Thanks for clearing up this story, it did sound weird to me aswell.
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lumumba
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RE: Future Of Brussels Airport

Fri Feb 08, 2002 5:24 pm

It's realy black on white in the papers?
In DE MORGEN from yesterday!
And they are speeking about to contact other big players.
Regards