AA@DFW
Topic Author
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What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:19 pm

Ok, TODAY alone we have heard some MAJOR changes for the world's largest airline. Here's a wrap up of all of them:

1) Upgrade 767 to 777 RDU - LGW
2) Add 2nd daily DFW - LGW 777
3) Inaugurate JFK - OAK svc (2x daily, 757)
4) Add 41 flights out of DFW
5) Add 35 flights ouf of MIA
6) Inaugurate new svc MIA - MDE (Medellin, Colombia)
7) Inaugurate new svc JFK - NRT
8) Add new service to Monterrey, and Mexico City, MX

I don't know what's going down over on Amon Carter Blvd. in Ft Worth, but whatever it is -- Keep doing it Don!

AA@DFW
 
BA
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:25 pm

Well, I guess its partially in response to UA's move.

They are adding 38 flights out of DEN.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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chrisnh
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:25 pm

Perhaps they sense impending doom from some of the other carriers and they are building up to 'be there' when those other carriers (read: US and / or UA) falter. It seems like a pre-emptive strike to me, although the routes being added do not seemed specifically aimed at either carrier.
 
AIR757200
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:30 pm


All I can say, sounds like good news. Are we to expect the airline to remain at <20% capacity cut all it's life?
We are getting some of our flights restored. According to intercompany-news, this is just the first of several "layers" of flights being added.

AA is expected to be in positive cash possibly at the end of the 2nd quarter.  Smile

AIR757200
 
747firstclass
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:31 pm

I have some sources deep in AA. Many of them are livid, that BA has been taking this hard nose stand on LHR. Some of it is partly to intimidate BA into doing something that will get them anti trust immunity. Keep in mind that BAs reach in the US is very small in comparison. So it might be a reminder to BA on what they are missing out on. Some of it also, is keeping up with the Jones (I.E. UA, CO, DAL etc.).More importantly the business travel, ecoomy are picking up a bit, enough that the airlines will gamble on continued increase.
 
Guest

RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:42 pm

I saw a report today that saying AA is restoring 20% of suspended flight due to 911 terrorist attack. This will make other majors in US to restore their suspended flight in order to compete and survive.
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:44 pm

AA needs to put more widebodies in the air. Look at UA for example. They even have some 747s on their transcons.
 
AluminumShower
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:50 pm

That would mean buying more, wouldn't it?
 
FATFlyer
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

The 41 flights for DFW only take us through March. There is even more expansion coming. For example, a second FAT-DFW flight is scheduled to added in April.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
CLEfan
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 2:03 pm

I dont think this is a great move for AA. While it would be good for the pilots to be in the air more, the costs could be high for AA. AA is already losing millions a day. By adding more and more seats like they are doing, they are going to kill yields. I think AA needs to focus on turning a profit first, then growing like mad. The whole issue of being the worlds largest airline is completely to satisfy an ego. Will it matter how large the airline is when it runs out of money and finds itself in Chapter 7? I dont think so. Turn a profit, or get very close to turning one, build up yields, then expand. AMR burned through $800 million in the fourth quarter of last year, looks like they want to try to lose even more than that this quarter.
 
AluminumShower
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 2:04 pm

And to that I ask the same question.... Where do all those airplanes come from for that expansion? Hmmmm, retire the 727s and retire the 717s... Doesn't that mean that AA is already down a bunch of aircraft year over year?
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 2:05 pm

1) Woops we over did it after 9/11.

2) UA are about to go belly up, lets get it now !!!
 
AluminumShower
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 2:11 pm

You never quit confusing me Hkgspotter1.... What does that mean?
 
AA737-823
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 2:52 pm

Aluminum Shower:

American will get extra planes from several places.

First, they have quite a number of the Fokker fleet in temporary storage.
Additionally, they had (had- I think they still do, but to cover my arse I will still say HAD) two brand new 777s parked in Oklahoma...
They have been deferring 738 deliveries like there is no tomorrow (which there might not be in this industry...)

Also, AA has a huge fleet, and maybe they are going to try to improve their utilization figures...

But the 727 and 717 eliminations aren't that big a deal. First, they were planned. Second, 10 of the 717s are parked in various places all over the nation anyhow. Third, the 738s are replacing 727s.

I think they have the fleet needed to do this stuff...
 
Fleet Service
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Wed Jan 30, 2002 3:34 pm

Increased utilization times.As for the "Quite an number of Fokkers in storage",I don't know about that.There were 8 or so F100's at TUL, thats about it.

I'll check Sabre at work tommorow and get the definitive number.

Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
 
blink182
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 7:42 am

I think part of this may be to intimidate BA(see AA second LGW-DFW 777, and LGW-RDU 777 flights) into coughing up slots, but I figure if they really wanted to do that, they would make all of their LHR flights 777s.

The economy has been improving a tad bit, but I do think AA is over doing it a little bit. They should have increased service to bigger cities with a market instead of second or third tier cities(no offence  Smile) or cities without much competition.

As for aircraft, AA is getting rid of the 727s and 717s(As previously noted), but they do have planes in temporary storage, so they can go ahead and pull those back into the air.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
searpqx
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 7:51 am

Bottom line, what is up is that AA sees an opportunity to increase revenue or make strategic expansions in selected markets. Pure and simple! AA is, and has been for several years, one of the best managed (from a purely financial standpoint - I'm not trying to comment on any other aspect) airlines in the world. They move into and/or expand in markets where their (very sophisticated) yield management and marketing analysis tells them they can make significant gains, and they pull out of markets when that same analysis tells them they can better utilize their resources elsewhere.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
MAH4546
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 7:52 am

Two of those 777s are coming from DFW-SCL. That 777 service, unfortunatley, did not last long. If you look at the scheds, most of the flights are late night departures. They are just increasing use of aircraft. For example, new 4th daily Miami-Mexico City flight leaves Miami at around 2000 and overnights in MEX before leaving for Miami early in the morning. Today, that 737-800 is overnighting in Miami. Same with the new Miami-Medellin service, using a 757-200 overnighting in Colombia that would otherwise be parked in Miami. They are just making better use of thier aircraft.
a.
 
desertjets
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 7:54 am

Remember that AA and the others cut around 20% of their capacity though early retirement and deferment. So getting some capacity back is not a difficult thing to do. In terms of returning back to pre-9/11 levels there is certainly more to go. Additionally the Feds reported 0.2% growth for 4Q 2001, so there are positive signs. Sometimes you need to take risky moves when the opportunity presents itself.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
connector4you
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 10:59 am

I see a similar pattern here in both AA and BA. Their restructuring process seems to head in the same direction:
-Heavy increase in capacity on Transatlantic flights
-Dumping all the unprofitable short-medium feeding routes and aircraft

Who is going to feed this EXTRA capacity? … Your guess is just as good as mine! More likely new Oneworld Alliance members and more codeshare agreements. Your rumors and/or speculations are welcome here…

My gut feeling is that …very cheap transatlantic fares might be coming soon around your local airport

Cheers

 
747firstclass
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 11:24 am

I repeat my earlier reply. To intimidate BA into releasing those slots at LHR. If that doesnt work, to impress to IB to sign an enhanced code sharing and openskies. Look at how many of the new flights are at MIA. That would be too impress IB. The 777s at RDU and BA are definetly intended to scare BA.
 
MAH4546
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 11:36 am

747firstclass, RDU-LGW was a 777 before 9.11. I don't think it's being done to scare BA. The demand is obviously there. You won't see IB codeshare with AA on thier Latin American operations, at least not Central. Iberia has a very profitable Central American/Mexican hub at MIA, one of thier most profitable operations. The two already codeshare on all trans-Atlantic flights between the US and Spain and many domestic routes out of JFK, MIA, and ORD. I could possibly see IB putting thier code on secondary South American markets, though, like the new MDE service. Though you are right about Open Skies. I think AA would really like Spain/IB to lead an opening of Open Skies with Spain, and I think it will happen within 18 months (which I think will mean increased MIA-MAD service and new MIA-BCN service, which is why I'm anxiously awaiting it).
a.
 
Guest

RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 1:25 pm

Anyone know what flights are being added from MIA? Will it be Domestic or International?
 
MAH4546
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 1:50 pm

bigmike, MIA extra flights to the following:

Domestic: SJU, LAX, SFO, DFW (2), ORD, LGA (2), DCA (3), BOS, ATL, RSW (2), EYW, JAX (2), TPA, BWI
International: NAS (4), MEX, CUN, GCM, BOG, CCS, MDE*
(*-new route)

Plus FLL is getting extra flights to DFW, LAX, NAS (2), and RDU.
a.
 
MAH4546
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 1:51 pm

Oh, yes, and FLL is getting new CCS flights.
a.
 
LV
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 2:59 pm

Anybody think this might be a move to start dehubbing STL? I hope not but it could just be history repeating itself (remember Reno Air, what's left of its hubs?)
 
timberwolf24
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Thu Jan 31, 2002 4:05 pm

Any word on new flights out of ORD?
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
 
LV
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Fri Feb 01, 2002 7:10 am

Come on, I played "Devil's Advocate" Anybody have a conjecture on some of the ideas thrown out in here (my previous one included)?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Fri Feb 01, 2002 9:59 am

More AA build-up news announced today:

BOS:
Restarting 2nd Daily BOS-MCO (738) 3/2/02
Restarting 2nd Daily BOS-SJC (757) 3/2/02

JFK:
Restarting 2nd Daily Sat,Sun & Mon JFK-STT (757) 1/31/02
Adding 2nd Daily 3x Weekly JFK-Turks & Caico 1/31/02
Restarting 5th Daily JFK-SFO (3/2/02)

LGA:
Adding 11th Daily LGA-DFW (3/2/02)
Adding 2nd Daily LGA-MCO (3/2/02)
Adding 16th Daily LGA-ORD (3/2/02)
Adding 3rd Daily LGA-TPA (3/2/02)

Also LAX-OAK ERJ service starts 2/5/02

 
baec777
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Fri Feb 01, 2002 10:51 am

AA need to start-up another London flight out of DFW.... that would be LHR.... instead of the 2nd DFW-LGW flight, change it to LHR with another B777..!! or BA could do that with a B744.

baec777
 
blink182
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Fri Feb 01, 2002 12:27 pm

Baec777, AA would do DFW-LHR in a heartbeat, but DFW isn't in bermuda II, so untill BII gets destroyed, DFW's london flights will go through LGW.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
MAH4546
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Fri Feb 01, 2002 12:48 pm

They seemed to leave out the 5th daily MIA-BOS and 8th/9th daily MIA-LGA, but I guess thats because those flights are returning on 07Apr02 and will be announced earlier.
a.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Fri Feb 01, 2002 12:55 pm

American is redistributing former TWA capacity across its route network and system to better use those resources and planes. Second, AA is anticipating a recovery in the US economy by mid-year and the routes, it hopes, will be sustainable. I think many of those routes make sense (LGA-MCO) for example is a great idea. Only Delta has a nonstop in that market now that Continental discontinued its two daily LGA-MCO flights after 9/11. I'm not sure if Spirit has a flight in that market anymore either.

Some other routes are American adding capacity only to be axed later on. The OAK route won't survive thanks to JetBlue. NRT is also a long shot for long-term survival. Delta didn't just pull it because of 9/11. Sure, the MD11 had reliability issues but if the route was really profitable, Delta would have taken one 777 off MCO-ATL and put it on JFK-NRT. American is entering a crowded market (UA, NW, JL, ANA, and CO) and the Japanese economy is weak.

We'll just have to see what happens....American's expansion is encouraging.

ContinentalEWR
 
MAH4546
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RE: What's Up With AA's Massive Expansion?

Fri Feb 01, 2002 1:17 pm

ContinentalEWR, MCO-LGA is an existing AA route, they are just adding a second frequency.
a.