CactusA319
Topic Author
Posts: 2822
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 1:51 am

No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 12:22 am

AMR clips Airbus' wings
January 30, 2002: 8:07 a.m. ET

Carrier removes A300 from its trans-Atlantic routes in favor of larger planes.
BOSTON (CNN) - American Airlines is taking its Airbus A300 off its trans-Atlantic routes, and several senior Airbus pilots have decided to switch to flying other jumbo jets.

The scheduling change comes in the wake of the Airbus crash that took 265 lives in New York Nov. 12 when the tail snapped off that plane less than two minutes after takeoff.

The last Airbus to London was scheduled to depart Boston at 9 a.m. ET Wednesday. The last flight back to the United States arrives in Newark, N.J., Thursday afternoon.

With fewer pilots needed, 10 of American's most experienced A300 pilots have exercised their seniority to switch to other planes. Some did so for personal convenience; others expressed safety concerns.




One captain switching to a different plane wrote to American's president a few weeks ago to suggest the tail be removed from an Airbus and taken apart to check for any hidden problems in light of the New York crash.

An American Airlines official said the Airbus is being replaced on trans-Atlantic routes because larger planes are now available, and that the switch was planned before the November accident. But pilot sources said they were told business travelers were hesitant to fly the Airbus and were booking on other airlines.




American Airlines is taking 10 of its remaining 34 A300 Airbus planes out of service while it changes the seating to use them on its flights to the Caribbean. Five will return to the air soon, the other five may be idle until the fall.

American continues to fly the Airbus to San Juan, Santo Domingo, Caracas and Lima, among other destinations. Many of those flights originate in Miami.

The plane that crashed in New York had just departed Kennedy International Airport bound for Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic.

Shares of American parent AMR Corp. (AMR: Research, Estimates) lost $1.12 to $25.07 in trading Wednesday.

 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 12:26 am

Wow, so does this mean that they will be using the 777 on BOS-LHR? I mean, they did say they were favoring bigger planes.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 12:37 am

BOS-LHR operates with a 763, JFK is all 777.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:28 pm

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 12:56 am

I say just remove them and park them.

-Dmitry
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 3383
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 1:02 am

On the one hand, 777s would be nice. On the other hand, I think (for the way the market is now, especially) that there is enough capacity between Boston-Heathrow. UA and AA have 3x 767-300s between them; BA is bringing back their triple-daily service with 2x 777s and 1 747-400; and Virgin has a lone 747-400 on the run (soon to be an A340). My math tells me that this is close to 2,000 daily seats. So, while the AA 777 might be a nice sight here in Boston (a UA one too), I'm not sure the market is there to support it. Bottom line: the UK carriers have the decided edge in aircraft selection between the two cities...by far.
 
BA777
Posts: 2048
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 11:40 pm

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 1:04 am

Are the A300s gonna start fkying to Antigua, which is in the Caribbean before Feb 13th? If so, i cant wait to see one!

BA777  Big thumbs up
 
Hoffa
Posts: 946
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:04 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 1:52 am

CNN in its infinite wisdom is putting together two completely unrelated events. The retirement of the A300 for the North Atlantic routes was announced almost a year ago, well before 9/11 or the Queens crash.

I think if the A300 had been made with a longer range variant, it might have met with more success and orders on the USA-Europe routes. The bean counters love that thing!
 
Guest

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 2:00 am

I've been planning a trip to London for a while and every time I check out the available fares one week ahead I also look at the seat selection and usually only 5 or 6 seats are available. Does this mean that only 5 or 6 are available or that they are only available at that fare?
 
GoAllegheny
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2000 4:48 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 2:00 am

Facts don't sell as well as stories, so I am not surprised that CNN did what it did. Put another way, the media (through ad revenue) do not get rewarded for the stories they don't run.
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 2:06 am

Dmitry, why should AA remove and park the A300's? I'm just curious. Is it because it had a crash? So I suppose that all aircraft types which have crashed should be parked.

That would leave 777's and A340's as just about the only aircraft that airlines could operate.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
User avatar
spinkid
Posts: 1380
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:59 am

Parra

Thu Jan 31, 2002 2:07 am

Many seats are blacked out until the day of the flight, they are usually near the front so FF can take them, or people in wheelchairs, unaccompanied minors, etc can take them.
 
AOMlover
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:03 pm

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 2:17 am

I agree: Dmitry, what u've written seems very stupid to me. It's nonsense !!!!!
 
Boeingfan
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:47 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 2:17 am

Great news!

That added center fuel tank to make the pond crossing and the vertical stabilizer issue does not add to the confidence of the aircraft at this time.

They will still be flying to the Caribbean and South America, at least until they have fully realized their ROI (return on investment.)

This is a start. Good news.
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4797
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 2:35 am

Boeingfan,

Gathering by your statement you'll be one happy person the day an airline grounds their 737s (rudder problem) and / or 747s (center fuel tank). BTW, not sure, but I think the 767-300ER and 777-200ER also have such a center fuel tank. Following your logic, should we ground them as well?

My point? There's no serious reason to be grounding these things, and the decision had been taken more than a year ago, as was pointed out. No proof has been found of any problem with the A300 stabilizer, and until that has happened, keep 'em flying. I mean, no-one grounded their 737s after the rudder issue came up, or their 747s after the center fuel tank problems, so why should this be any different?
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 3:08 am

let's not mention the MD11's. They are unstable on landing apparantly, and then there was the Swissair disaster. Or the MD-80's with their problems too (aka Alaska Airlines). And going back in history, the American manufacturers have a much worse record for structure failure, as with the DC-10's and their cargo doors, and the Boeing 737 over Hawaii, and even the United 747 also over Hawaii.

What's my point? Let's be realistic. Any human made machine is only as good as the humans themselves, and we all know, believe it or not, humans aren't perfect! Not the Americans, the Europeans, or anybody else. The A300, as well as any of the American aircraft mentioned above have served humans extremely well, if not always perfectly. Faults are to be expected, especially with something complex such as building a passenger airplane flying at 500 mph at high altitudes.

Also, how do we know that the accident was not totally the fault of something American Airlines did? It is possible that something AA did with regards to maintenance was done wrong. Remember the DC-10 in Chicago??? That was purely a maintenance problem.

So let's not ground the A300's because some whiny saps think they should be grouned. Let's learn from what happened, and see if it does not happen again, to an A300, or the 777, or any other aircraft!
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 3:08 am

Scorpio, haven't you figured that one yet??

 
MAH4546
Posts: 24611
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 3:17 am

This is pretty sad the way CNN compiled the story. AA announced all A300s will be put into running Latin American and Caribbean flights out of MIA and JFK more than six months ago. Anyone know what the 3-class A300s are doing right now? Will they still fly 3-class to Latin America awaiting conversion? Will the PTVs in coach remain even when the business class is removed? Or will they keep 3-class versions and use them to Latin America (some places like Caracas could use the business class)?
a.
 
Boeingfan
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:47 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 3:39 am

Winey sap here...

Scorpio and Capt. Gomes,

Personally I just do not like the A300 aircraft, I flew them all the time with EA, ATL west coast US, and AA, MIA SJU, JFK SJU. They just are not a "personal" favorite and I would choose (no one else) to avoid an A300 at length.

In my opinion it is time to retire the ol' gal (A300.) RIP.

Pilots love the aircraft. The problem with the center fuel tanks on the 747 (and 737-200) were identified and corrected. There has never been a cause for concern on the A300 center fuel cells. I guess what I do not care for is the after market augmentation of anything (out side of the factory. FAA sanctioned or not.)

As far as the A300 vertical stabilizer they (FAA) have not identified the cause for the tail to separate from the aircraft. AA pilots have expressed a concern for the safety of the aircraft publicly. (I do not condone that public action either...another topic.)

The 737 300 and MD 80 tail plane issues were identified and corrective action taken. I am unaware of any corrective action taken with the A300 vert. stabilizer? Or even if the problem has been identified, if there is an issue?

The DC 10 fleet was grounded at all US carriers, until a solution was provided for the engine pylon bolts, and forward flap retraction mechanism.

Once the appropriate solution is identified and corrective action is FAA published, then the A300 should be endeared by everyone. I do admit they are fuel efficient, and have an operation reliability of 99% which is great for an airliner.

Airliners are built for 500 mph speed and high altitudes by humans, computer modeling, wind tunel tests. They are built to excessive "G" force specifications. Not only the tail separated from the aircraft, the engines did too? Which is another issue, 'g' forces? Why? CAT, vortex from the JL 744 ahead? Pilot or maintenance error? Too many ???'s remain.

In the end I still would choose to fly on different equipment if given a choice.

Not up to me, just an informed opinion.

Safe travels, Bf

 
BlueShamu330s
Posts: 2565
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 3:11 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 3:41 am

What a load of rubbish.

Typical US protectionist jargonistic reporting and scaremongering.

The removal of the A300s off the Atlantic was well publicised by AA themselves, certainly as far back as February LAST YEAR.

I hope someone from Airbus saw the report and serve a lawsuit on the creaters of it.

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
magyar
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2000 4:11 pm

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 4:16 am

Boeingfan, I suppose the root of your problem
with the A300 is that her name starts with an
A and not B as your username would suggest
anyway. That is OK though, you do not have
to really rationalize your opinion and preferences.
I noticed, for example, that the preference between
A320 and B737 is strongly correlates with
national origin and previously expressed preference
of manufacturer (I mean on this list not in the
general public). It is not surprising but still
ridicoulous.

Janos
 
gaut
Posts: 436
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2001 10:57 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 4:28 am

Boeinfan,

I don't remember any B747 or B737 grounded before corrective actions were taken.

Like BlueShamu330's, I think it's another fear campaign against Airbus coming from US.

Shame on CNN (the bigest propagandist in the world)
«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1110
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 4:48 am

Wonder how much money AA would loose by ridding themselves of the A300 now. If they advertised that they were leaving maybe customer confidence would result in more ticket sales.

I predict that northwest will not be very happy with the A330 just as US is realizing the mistake of not ordering more 767.
I can drive faster than you
 
Boeingfan
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:47 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 4:57 am

Magyar, Gaut and Blueshamu330's,

You are right I guess it is national origin that is why one aircraft is preferred over the other? Hmmm?

Why so defensive? I prefer an A321,320,319 or 318 to the next generation 737. I wish boeing had gone to a shortened fuselage 757 to compete vs. the old 737.

This post was about the A300 ... no other aircraft. It is time for them to "sunset, in my opinion, no one elses." I do not represent the airlines nor the USA in an opinion.

Airbus actually designs, builds and delivers a very competitive product. At the time 70's-80's the A300 was far a more efficient and reliable aircraft then the DC 10 and L1011 (hanger princess), it was designed to compete with them.

Believe me a long haul on the 767-300 is no picnic in coach. That "tube" gets narrower with every passing hour until you reminice of an MD80. What were they thinking at Boeing? And now to strech it to a 400 series, it has become an over streched MD80.

I do like Boeing aircraft. Their history in aviation, the 707, 727, 747, 777.

I do not think they should ground the aircraft, just maybe think about replacement equipment? If that is the A330, so be it. It is the bottom line that determines aircraft selection by an airline. Efficiency, duty and terms.

USA carriers, NW, HP, AA, US and UA are happy with their Airbus fleets and terms.

My comment was strictly an opinion that is not shared. So be it.

Safe travels, Bf
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4797
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 5:12 am

Rlwynn,

I predict that northwest will not be very happy with the A330 just as US is realizing the mistake of not ordering more 767

What on earth are you talking about?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24611
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 5:24 am

Rlwynn, they would loose a lot, because the A300 has a huge cargo hold and can carrier a lot of people, more than thier 777-200 Atlantics. It is one of American Airline's most profitable (probably 2nd after the 777-200 Atlantic) aircrafts. It is able to operate high-density short and medium-haul routes with strong passenger and cargo design at a profit that many other aircraft could not make, such as JFK-SJU, MIA-POP, and MIA-GYE.
a.
 
magyar
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2000 4:11 pm

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 6:47 am

Boeingfan don't take it personally, I did not want to
bash on you. I just wanted to point out that attitudes
toward airliners strongly correlates with preference
of manufacturers on this list . This
is true for most people on this list including myself.
It is still ridicoulous, though.

Janos
 
MAC100
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2000 7:53 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 7:27 am

I flew on AA's A300s several times and they were very comfortable planes. Certainly my best experience on any Airbus widebody! AA announced their retirement from transatlatic routes almost a year ago. If AA would not trust these planes they would certainly not use them on other routes.
I am looking forward to the 767 on BOS-LHR-BOS but I doubt that too many people will actually appreciate the difference. With the exception of LH most other top airlines have long retired these planes and replaced them with more modern A or B types.
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 10:27 pm

Why would AA start a fear campaign against its own product? AA didn't acquire the A300-600 because they didn't like them.

Just to play devils advocate. Before you condemn AA and the U.S. to rationalize your dislike and distrust of anything American, please compare the grounding of Concorde (1 fatal incident), with the AA situation.

Also, what would your reaction be if it was the FAA rather than the European regulators who grounded Concorde?

Air safety should trancend political correctness, apparently some of you disagree.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 11:07 pm

You can't compare the concorde with any other airliner, it's something very special.
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Thu Jan 31, 2002 11:30 pm

FDXmech, it wasn't AA that made up the story, it was CNN, there is another thread about that.

Racko, why can't you compare the Concorde with any other airliner? They both fly and carry passengers, right?

 
Likesplanes
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2001 3:58 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Fri Feb 01, 2002 12:20 am

If AA is indeed going to use some of their A300's on Carribbean routes, they will most likely turn them into sardine cans. A lot of airlines that fly these routes are flying vacationers with travel packages set up by a travel agency. This is part of what makes these routes high density. Look for them to stuff 350 or so seats into their A300's. Airbusses' stats for this plane originally called for it to be able to carry 375 pax in
high density seating. The most seats I am aware of
on an A300 is with Monarch Airlines. The have 361 seats crammed into the A300. Just my 2 cents worth.
 
eugdog
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2001 11:32 pm

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Fri Feb 01, 2002 12:57 am

Well I for one will be delighted with the AA decision to replace the A300-600 with the B777. The B777 has the nicest interiors of any aircraft. I have not complaints about the A300-600. They are very nice planes as well. And I am sure they are pretty safe as there are so many A300 flying.

Perhaps they are a bit elderly and consequently fuel inefficeint for such a long route. They maybe better suited to shorter routes where fuel cost is a slightly less important factor.

I cannot believe that a A300-600 has more cargo capacity then a B777 - the latter is a considerably larger aircraft and wider as well

Also despite all the difficulties with B737 rudder it has the best record of any small passenger jet other then the MD80s. There are just too many flying around.
 
meechy36
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Fri Feb 01, 2002 1:03 am

AA already flies the A300 extensively throughout the Caribbean. It is configured for 16F/235Y. The A300 has been used in the Caribbean since we recieved them. They are perfect for that mission, they have huge amounts of cargo space and large overhead bins, 2 things that are a must for the region.

As for the speculation that AA pulled these off the Atlantic because of 587, that is pure bullshit. When I was flying international out of BOS early last year (2001) we were informed that they were going to removed from the Atlantic and reconfigured BACK into a 2 class a/c. We were told that AA was going to streamline the Atlantic fleet to the 767 and 777. Out of BOS we had hoped we were going to get the 777, however checking SABRE I see that it is a 763.

I also don't get all this crap on these boards about Airbus vs Boeing. They are both great companies and as a flight attendant I would bet that 95% of the people who fly couldn't care less what kind of a/c they are on as long as it leaves on time. They both have their pros and cons, the A300 3 class was my favorite a/c to work across the Atlantic, lots of galley space, a wide cabin and the IFE, the downside was the turbulance, it always seemed a much rougher ride than the 767 which we also flew across to CDG.

Cheers,
Mike-BOS
 
hustler
Posts: 308
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2001 1:13 am

Meechy36

Fri Feb 01, 2002 1:12 am

Wow it's funny you mention that about the A300 and turbulance. I feel the same exact way. For some reason when I fly to SDQ on the A300 it ALWAYS is a rougher flight. Opposed to the 767 which is almost always a smooth ride.

...Hustler.
 
co/ba
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 1:55 pm

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Fri Feb 01, 2002 1:24 am

It is well known that AA was planning to remove these aircraft from transatlantic service a long time ago. However, will it not be percieved as an admission that there is something wrong with the A-300. Though this is yet to be proven.
 
Thumper
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2001 2:12 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Sat Feb 02, 2002 1:10 pm

Simple solution on this site! Europeans fly Airbus,Americans fly Boeing! Everbodys happy,no more arguments!
 
Staffan
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:21 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Sun Feb 03, 2002 12:31 am

Thumper, unlike some others on this site, I'm happy to fly on both!

 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8007
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Sun Feb 03, 2002 5:44 am

Somebody should whap CNN for getting the story WRONG.

After all, AA had announced a long time ago that they were going to phase out their AB6 fleet from transatlantic service and replace them with more 767/777 service. The AB6's--because of their huge cargo cargo capacity--is perfect for JFK-SJU and MIA-SJU flights.
 
Guest

RE: No More AA A300's On TransAtlantic

Sun Feb 03, 2002 8:28 am

I wonder if the crash of AA Flt 587 was caused by installing defective A300 aircraft parts that were discovered in a hanger in Italy.