SgtBarone
Posts: 37
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:57 pm

masseybrown wrote:
^ Things that make you go hmmmmm. I figured CommutAir would eventually move what's still in North Olmsted to somewhere in northern Virginia. Maybe they'll take over ExpressJet's maintenance hangar as well and return to flying CLE trips.

Maybe also UA does have some lingering interest in CLE. It was Kirby's regime at AA that he added DCA and LGA to AA's CLE schedule.


Very interesting indeed. I wonder if there would be room in ExpressJet's facility? They still operate a pretty sizable maintenance/crew base in CLE.
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DEN FLG FRA IAD LAX MAD MCI MDW MUC PHX RSW SJU TPA
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:08 pm

SgtBarone wrote:
Very interesting indeed. I wonder if there would be room in ExpressJet's facility? They still operate a pretty sizable maintenance/crew base in CLE.


Aren't CommutAir's E145's coming from ExpressJet? UA owns/leases them, but I think they are reassigning them from EV to C5. C5 could end up hiring EV's CLE-domiciled crews as well if the flying transfers. Either way, it appears CommutAir plans on hanging around, which is good news.
 
SgtBarone
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:13 pm

masseybrown wrote:
SgtBarone wrote:
Very interesting indeed. I wonder if there would be room in ExpressJet's facility? They still operate a pretty sizable maintenance/crew base in CLE.


Aren't CommutAir's E145's coming from ExpressJet? UA owns/leases them, but I think they are reassigning them from EV to C5. C5 could end up hiring EV's CLE-domiciled crews as well if the flying transfers. Either way, it appears CommutAir plans on hanging around, which is good news.


Either way great news. And I believe the E145's going to CommutAir are former ExpressJet aircraft that were returned when their leases expired, and are not coming directly from ExpressJet. Here's what I could find:

https://airwaysmag.com/industry/commuta ... y-program/
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DEN FLG FRA IAD LAX MAD MCI MDW MUC PHX RSW SJU TPA
 
joeman
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:44 pm

Happy to see Icelandair finally added CLE to their route map!
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:43 pm

Article in this week's Crains Cleveland Business about the city's new director of port control, Robert Kennedy. He plans to merge the Div of Hopkins and Div of Burke into a single "Division of Airports" under one commissioner. This may lessen the influence BKL has in the city, though I'm not sure how much the current commissioner of Burke did to advocate for improvements or growth at the airport.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/ ... d-services
 
flight152
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:07 pm

masseybrown wrote:
SgtBarone wrote:
Very interesting indeed. I wonder if there would be room in ExpressJet's facility? They still operate a pretty sizable maintenance/crew base in CLE.


Aren't CommutAir's E145's coming from ExpressJet? UA owns/leases them, but I think they are reassigning them from EV to C5. C5 could end up hiring EV's CLE-domiciled crews as well if the flying transfers. Either way, it appears CommutAir plans on hanging around, which is good news.

C5 would love EV crews. That doesn’t mean EV crews want to work for C5. The EV operation isn’t leaving CLE anytime soon as we’ve been told by management. In addition, the C5 operation is a complete mess, they’re losing countless pilot which doesn’t work when you’re adding to the fleet.
 
fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:12 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Article in this week's Crains Cleveland Business about the city's new director of port control, Robert Kennedy. He plans to merge the Div of Hopkins and Div of Burke into a single "Division of Airports" under one commissioner. This may lessen the influence BKL has in the city, though I'm not sure how much the current commissioner of Burke did to advocate for improvements or growth at the airport.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/ ... d-services


Impressive growth and future outlook by Kennedy noted in the Crain's article.

"Kennedy told council that traffic in July of this year topped the traffic in July 2016 by 101,000 passengers, when 40,000 people surged into town to witness the nomination of Donald Trump at the Republican National Convention. He added that growing domestic service means travelers have 1.2 million more seats available than in 2016, a growth of 10%. He said that growth significantly exceeds against an industrywide growth of between 2% and 3%.

"Our (seats available) will still grow," Kennedy predicted, adding he expects the "new normal" to be between 4% and 5% growth in available seats annually."
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:32 pm

flight152 wrote:
C5 would love EV crews. That doesn’t mean EV crews want to work for C5. The EV operation isn’t leaving CLE anytime soon as we’ve been told by management. In addition, the C5 operation is a complete mess, they’re losing countless pilot which doesn’t work when you’re adding to the fleet.


I can understand why EV crews are relatively happy where they are. Does this mean EV will be converting to E175s at CLE? That would be a huge plus.
 
flight152
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:08 pm

masseybrown wrote:
flight152 wrote:
C5 would love EV crews. That doesn’t mean EV crews want to work for C5. The EV operation isn’t leaving CLE anytime soon as we’ve been told by management. In addition, the C5 operation is a complete mess, they’re losing countless pilot which doesn’t work when you’re adding to the fleet.


I can understand why EV crews are relatively happy where they are. Does this mean EV will be converting to E175s at CLE? That would be a huge plus.

Unfortunately 175’s aren’t on the horizon for EV.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:49 pm

FlexJet at KCGF has just added the second G650 and ninth Gulfstream overall to its planned 50-plane fleet. They just keep growing.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/ ... y-aircraft
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:04 pm

^50-plane fleet at KCGF or globally?
 
chrisjake
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:51 pm

greenair727 wrote:
Article in this week's Crains Cleveland Business about the city's new director of port control, Robert Kennedy. He plans to merge the Div of Hopkins and Div of Burke into a single "Division of Airports" under one commissioner. This may lessen the influence BKL has in the city, though I'm not sure how much the current commissioner of Burke did to advocate for improvements or growth at the airport.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/ ... d-services


Speaking of Kennedy.....friction between him and Cleve. City Council? Wouldn't be surprising.....who does City Council NOT have friction with?

http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.s ... river_home
 
plinth857
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:33 pm

chrisjake wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
Article in this week's Crains Cleveland Business about the city's new director of port control, Robert Kennedy. He plans to merge the Div of Hopkins and Div of Burke into a single "Division of Airports" under one commissioner. This may lessen the influence BKL has in the city, though I'm not sure how much the current commissioner of Burke did to advocate for improvements or growth at the airport.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/ ... d-services


Speaking of Kennedy.....friction between him and Cleve. City Council? Wouldn't be surprising.....who does City Council NOT have friction with?

http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.s ... river_home


Oy vey... the city needs to rein in its people - let the man do his job. Sometimes, I think Cleveland is its own worst enemy.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:57 pm

greenair727 wrote:
^50-plane fleet at KCGF or globally?


Globally, I'm sure. One of the pair flew into KCGF last week, probably to get its FlexJet custom package installed.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:01 pm

chrisjake wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
Speaking of Kennedy.....friction between him and Cleve. City Council? Wouldn't be surprising.....who does City Council NOT have friction with?

http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.s ... river_home


I'd bet it was Jackson's staff stirring the pot, not the council. Sounds as if Kennedy made his point successfully. :smile:
 
SgtBarone
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:04 pm

masseybrown wrote:
chrisjake wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
Speaking of Kennedy.....friction between him and Cleve. City Council? Wouldn't be surprising.....who does City Council NOT have friction with?

http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.s ... river_home


I'd bet it was Jackson's staff stirring the pot, not the council. Sounds as if Kennedy made his point successfully. :smile:


Exactly. Hope this is just a speedbump. Sounds like Kennedy's the man for this job. He certainly has the credentials.
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DEN FLG FRA IAD LAX MAD MCI MDW MUC PHX RSW SJU TPA
 
thomacf
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:11 pm

Cleveland is in the running for Amazon's second HQ and BKL and this was a recent article in the PD

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index. ... eking.html

1. Give BKL to Amazon.. A campus could easily be built on the land since they wouldn't be needing to build a high rise. You can build mid rises on the west side of the field and make the land that is not well suited for building into a park
2. Throw the kitchen sink of incentives to AS to open a focus city/hub with every benefit possible along with the nonstop SEA service which is part of Amazon's RFP
3. Offer the IX center as part of the deal to be an Amazon air cargo center; either reconfigured or torn down
4. Build the third parallel over the old Ford Plant at CLE land that was in the future plans for Hopkins so you can absorb all the BKL traffic, increased commercial and cargo traffic
5. The city should work with CGF to extend the runway an additional 500-1,000k feet along with LPR being upgraded and lengthened as a reliever on the west side of town with the I480 Extension out to the TPike

This would all make too much sense and be too good for Cleveland so it won't happen.
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:27 pm

^If Amazon were to be in CLE they belong Downtown or in Midtown--but not at BKL. We shouldn't be giving a rich economic asset to one single company. BKL is what sets CLE apart from other cities (and is a reliever). Who knows if Amazon will even be around in 20 years. And we would have given our airport away for them? If the city did offer it and amazon bit, they'd prove even smarter and they'd keep the runway operational as a private airport so they could fly directly around the world in their private jets. And they'd be laughing at the City of Cleveland all the way.
 
VetteDude
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:58 pm

We aren't in the running for the Amazon HQ anyway, that's just wild speculation by the PD.
 
fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:11 pm

VetteDude wrote:
We aren't in the running for the Amazon HQ anyway, that's just wild speculation by the PD.


Not true...CLE is submitting a bid and Amazon has not yet determined if CLE is in the running or denied.

The bid suggests you propose one site, your best site to the RFP. With CLE, they do have two prime assets - IX Center and BKL. I give it a 5% chance, but if there is any hope, CLE should do what it takes and land the plane, so to speak.

From the Crain's article, it seems like Kennedy and CLE all agree that LHR/CDG/AMS/FRA type service is still the goal, which is good. However, it may be unachievable with the FI and Wow services.

With the pax revenue at the terminal way up, pax way up, CLE debt should be way down to an acceptable level. With Trump's desire to improve infrastructure and a good balance sheet, CLE should be prime for some capital spending...hopefully the long awaited D concourse connector and FIS or other components of the former master plan. If some type of capital plan is not announced in the next 18 months, I'd be leery of the CLE team's ability to get on the same page as the City to make something happen.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:15 pm

thomacf wrote:
5. The city should work with CGF to extend the runway an additional 500-1,000k feet along with LPR being upgraded and lengthened as a reliever on the west side of town with the I480 Extension out to the TPike


I think CGF, the County, and Directional Aviation are all more than willing; it's the NIMBY neighbors who object.
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:31 pm

fun2fly wrote:
The bid suggests you propose one site, your best site to the RFP. With CLE, they do have two prime assets - IX Center and BKL. I give it a 5% chance, but if there is any hope, CLE should do what it takes and land the plane, so to speak.


I don't quite get the desire to give up aviation assets--which are hard to come by--to give to Amazon? I've already mentioned my objection to BKL above. But the IX Center too? That building should eventually be razed and would be a great second terminal---why give it away for cargo or office space for one company when its on an airfield and can better used for passenger facilities? I'll say it again, if the City must propose a location for Amazon, it should either in Downtown proper or in Midtown.
 
fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:03 pm

greenair727 wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
The bid suggests you propose one site, your best site to the RFP. With CLE, they do have two prime assets - IX Center and BKL. I give it a 5% chance, but if there is any hope, CLE should do what it takes and land the plane, so to speak.


I don't quite get the desire to give up aviation assets--which are hard to come by--to give to Amazon? I've already mentioned my objection to BKL above. But the IX Center too? That building should eventually be razed and would be a great second terminal---why give it away for cargo or office space for one company when its on an airfield and can better used for passenger facilities? I'll say it again, if the City must propose a location for Amazon, it should either in Downtown proper or in Midtown.


We already have 20+ very nice gates not being used. A&B Could be demolished and a large expansion made. You can't possibly think we need another terminal = no way in our lifetimes will we have that much demand.

Again, I don't think we'll ever have to worry about AMZN.
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 pm

^In 20 years, Amazon could be gone as a company and in 20 years a new major airline could appear and make CLE its hub or HQ and build its own terminal. For reference, B6 is less than 20 years old. Its certainly not infeasible, yet giving the I-X center for the likes of Amazon certainly hurts that prospect, but for no good reason, as there's plenty of land in Midtown AND Downtown which is a far better fit for Amazon's uses. We shouldn't be sacrificing precious aviation assets as they will only undermine our ability to grow.
 
VetteDude
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:10 am

greenair727 wrote:
^In 20 years, Amazon could be gone as a company and in 20 years a new major airline could appear and make CLE its hub or HQ and build its own terminal. For reference, B6 is less than 20 years old. Its certainly not infeasible, yet giving the I-X center for the likes of Amazon certainly hurts that prospect, but for no good reason, as there's plenty of land in Midtown AND Downtown which is a far better fit for Amazon's uses. We shouldn't be sacrificing precious aviation assets as they will only undermine our ability to grow.


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we have hemorrhaged away our Fortune 500 businesses. I doubt another airline is going to spring up and use CLE as its main hub. We need to be realistic, and that means we need to eventually figure out a way to tear down A, B, and D (or use D), and build a modern O&D terminal. I like the overall design of C, I think it would be cool to tear down A and rebuild another C style terminal with a similar banjo, but in a more modern style with higher ceilings and such.

I agree BKL has to stay. If we cared about the lakefront at all, we wouldn't have a giant interstate wasting all of our east side shoreline. I wish the city would have the balls to move the freeway over. Get rid of the park, put 90 parallel to the tracks right over the newly vacant land where the CEI plant used to be. It would cut out deads mans curve too. Two birds with one stone.
 
ncflyer
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:08 pm

Greenair this is an honest question I'm not trying to spark a debate, I'm trying to learn. I really don't get why there is so much attachment to Burke in this town.

First off it is so easy to get from Hopkins to downtown, even during rush hour, traffic in Cleveland is nonexistent compared to any other decent sized city and it is such a short drive. Second I read that Burke only has something like 100 or 150 movements a day, I don't remember the exact number, but on an hourly basis it was trivial. And I've heard so much of that is for flight schools, which could easily be moved to any number of airports without harming downtown.

Not that CLE has much of a shot at landing HQ2 anyway but as I see it there is absolutely positively nothing to lose by offering up that land. If urban lakefront property is attractive to Amazon I'd make that deal to land them 100 times out of 100, even if I knew Amazon would go out of business in 20 years.

Somehow Chicago can survive without MIegs Field on its Lakefront, even though MDW and ORD are completely saturated, yet we can't?
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:37 pm

Dunno about Greenair, but my attachment to Burke is really about timing, not its value as an airport. If the city sells it off now, they will be giving a potential jewel away. There are other parts of the downtown area where development would have a bigger payoff in terms of resulting density, efficiency, increase in property value, and return on the city's investment. The vast parking lots of the Warehouse District, both banks of the Flats, the Avenue District, and the Campus District (especially the north end) would be easier, cheaper, and more synergistic for the city than plowing up a detached landfill that would require costlier, city-subsidized site prep, utilities infrastructure, and public transportation expansion.

It won't cost much to save Burke for later, when developers will pay much more. And if that day never comes, we'll still have a functional airport and a rare vista of green space.
 
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jnev3289
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:31 pm

Is commercial service allowed at BKL? Seems odd they don't have more than Ultimate. Frontier could make a TTN out of it
 
LifetimeGS
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:39 pm

BLK enjoyed Midway Airlines to MDW, Wright Airlines flew to DET,CMH, DAY 70's I believe, today its just Ultimate.
 
Trk1
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Bkl

Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:41 pm

Burke can take commercial flights. (Tag, Wright, Midway) have all had flights from Burke but all failed. Wright and Midway moved to Hopkins. Hopkins
is just fine with easy access from downtown by Train and freeway of 25 min or less better than most downtowns in the US.
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:48 am

ncflyer wrote:
Greenair this is an honest question I'm not trying to spark a debate, I'm trying to learn. I really don't get why there is so much attachment to Burke in this town.

First off it is so easy to get from Hopkins to downtown, even during rush hour, traffic in Cleveland is nonexistent compared to any other decent sized city and it is such a short drive. Second I read that Burke only has something like 100 or 150 movements a day, I don't remember the exact number, but on an hourly basis it was trivial. And I've heard so much of that is for flight schools, which could easily be moved to any number of airports without harming downtown. Not that CLE has much of a shot at landing HQ2 anyway but as I see it there is absolutely positively nothing to lose by offering up that land. If urban lakefront property is attractive to Amazon I'd make that deal to land them 100 times out of 100, even if I knew Amazon would go out of business in 20 years.

Somehow Chicago can survive without MIegs Field on its Lakefront, even though MDW and ORD are completely saturated, yet we can't?


Burke is a great airport--its main runway is only 400 feet shorter than either of the runways at LGA and as such it can handle 757s without issue--and regularly does--from sports teams, political campaigns, and other uses. A comparison to Miegs Field is not accurate, other than the fact that both are/were on a lakefront. Meigs was tiny little field with private and propeller services. American Eagle had some service there. BKL is comparable to MDW, not Meigs. Even so, BKL's 6L runway is longer than anything at MDW. And BKL can handle Customs and Immigration. Burke also is a true reliever for Hopkins--the closest other airport that could serve in that capacity would be CAK (not Lorain, Cuyahoga County, Lost Nation, Akron Fulton)--and CAK is pretty far away from a landside perspective. But, critical to this discussion, Burke also can be leveraged to grow Cleveland---which I'll admit its not being used for that. But its a critical aviation asset that could be used for economic development purposes far beyond how the city uses it today and the city desperately needs to leverage it. A future administration could do it if Jackson (and a few of his predecessors) is incapable of doing so. Burke is not only a very capable airport, but so incredibly located that if positioned properly, could spur all kinds of growth and development in the city.

Re amazon specifically, i agree with MasseyBrown's statement above that "There are other parts of the downtown area where development would have a bigger payoff in terms of resulting density, efficiency, increase in property value, and return on the city's investment. The vast parking lots of the Warehouse District, both banks of the Flats, the Avenue District, and the Campus District (especially the north end) would be easier, cheaper, and more synergistic for the city than plowing up a detached landfill that would require costlier, city-subsidized site prep, utilities infrastructure, and public transportation expansion."

Trk1 wrote:
Burke can take commercial flights. (Tag, Wright, Midway) have all had flights from Burke but all failed.


BKL also served Midwest Express to MKE and Comair (for DL) to Detroit City and maybe Cincinnati. But, re the statement above, I would not attribute their failure to Burke, as the above may suggest. There were other factors in the industry. For example, in the case of Wright, BKL made money for them, but it was said, they expanded their network too quickly and thus did themselves in.
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:42 pm

Cleveland Plain Dealer editorial calling for a satisfactory explanation about Kennedy's departure last week.

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index. ... _airp.html
 
VetteDude
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:06 pm

Kennedy leaving would be the icing on the cake for how incompetent this city is. Mayor Jackson and everyone on council needs to go, time to clean house. Kennedy is a true professional, our city truly doesn't deserve him. We would be wise to let him actually run the airport like the director should without interference from city hall.
 
fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:45 pm

VetteDude wrote:
Kennedy leaving would be the icing on the cake for how incompetent this city is. Mayor Jackson and everyone on council needs to go, time to clean house. Kennedy is a true professional, our city truly doesn't deserve him. We would be wise to let him actually run the airport like the director should without interference from city hall.


Well, it surely had to do with the meeting they had on Oct 4th. Not sure what happened, but Kennedy probably surmised that it's not the group at City Hall he wanted to bet his career on.

So, over the weekend Frank and boys convince him to come back, probably only until the election is over so it's not a black mark on the campaign.

What a shame. Sometime, the residents of CLE need to get Frank out of the way.
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:57 pm

^I agree the city needs far better leadership. But in the upcoming election, I'd say Jackson is much more preferable than Zack Reed who seems even less competent, and could be quite damaging to the city.
 
Robert1010
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:10 pm

The city has been focusing so much on downtown projects and yet still neglects the first thing people see when they land , I know they have put a bandaid on some things and updated others but still!!!
 
plinth857
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:43 pm

Which routes have the lowest load factors for CLE?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:27 pm

plinth857 wrote:
Which routes have the lowest load factors for CLE?


BDL-CLE had a LF of 28.8% in Jan, and so far this year peaked in July with a LF of 69.2%
MKE-CLE dips below 50% in Jan/Feb, and peaked at 66.57%

I believe those are the two lowest performing routes in terms of LF out of CLE
'17:ADD ATL AMS BCN BWI BOS CDG CMN CLT MDW ORD CVG DFW DAL DAB DEN DKR DTW DXB ENU FLL FCO RSW GNV BDL HNL IAH IND MCI LAS LAX LGW LHR LOS SDF MEM MIA MKE MSP MUC BNA EWR MSY JFK LGA MCO SFB ORY PHX PHL PVD RDU RAP RIC SLC STL CPS PIE SEA TPA DCA IAD ZRH
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:27 pm

Nice jump (47%) in Ultimate's July traffic at BKL. from 1,110 to 1,632 on one less weekday. The RNC's no-fly days must have really hurt them last year. BKL-LUK remains Ultimate's biggest route by far with a 70% L/F.
 
topbanana
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:41 pm

greenair727 wrote:

BKL also served Midwest Express to MKE


When was this?
Top Banana in the West. Yes.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:57 pm

July data for the LCC/ULCCs at CLE

Airline 2017 Boardings L/F 2016 Boardings L/F

G4 .... 16.7K 82.9% ... 9.9K 92.6%
F9 .... 64.9K 85.3% ... 49.6K 91.7%
B6 .... 12.3K 88.6% ... 11.8K 85.7%
WN ... 70.0K 87.0% ... 59.4K 84.2%
NK ... 36.5K 82.9% ... 35.4K 90.7%

G4's 2016 data is for CAK. WN's traffic grew by almost the exact amount of their 2016 CAK traffic on fewer total flights. NK's traffic at CLE was just about flat despite adding service at CAK, although the CLE load factor dropped on one additional flight per day in 2017.
 
LifetimeGS
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Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:29 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:34 pm

topbanana wrote:
greenair727 wrote:

BKL also served Midwest Express to MKE


When was this?


It was not, They flew CLE always.
 
greenair727
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:55 pm

LifetimeGS wrote:
topbanana wrote:
greenair727 wrote:

BKL also served Midwest Express to MKE


When was this?


It was not, They flew CLE always.


They did serve BKL--but not non-stop to MKE. I just pulled an old Cleveland Flight Guide off the shelf. I thought it was non-stop, but it wasn't---but it was indeed BKL. I don't have every edition, but according to the May 15-June 30, 1992 edition, Midwest Express Flights 1181, 1183, 1185, and 1187 all flew BKL-Detroit City-and onward to MKE. An additional flight, 1189, only went to DET, and didn't continue on to MKE.
Last edited by greenair727 on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
greenair727
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:09 pm

^In this same edition of Cleveland Flight Guide, in addition to the YX service at Burke, there is also an "Air Alpha" which had non-stop service from BKL to LUK (2x weekdays), and BKL to DET (2x weekdays).
 
SgtBarone
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:20 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:19 pm

The new inline baggage system came online today for the south end of the ticketing lobby (United, JetBlue, Air Canada, and Southwest). The north end (Delta, American, Frontier, Spirit, Allegiant) will come online later this year or early 2018. It will be nice to eventually have the screening machines removed.

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... t_new.html
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DEN FLG FRA IAD LAX MAD MCI MDW MUC PHX RSW SJU TPA
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4874
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:03 pm

plinth857 wrote:
Oy vey... the city needs to rein in its people - let the man do his job. Sometimes, I think Cleveland is its own worst enemy.


Or maybe the Plain Dealer is. Naymik seems to want to make a big deal about Kennedy's little excursion last Friday; I don't see the point.
 
jplatts
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:49 pm

Is Southwest going to be announcing CLE-DAL nonstop service in 2 weeks from now? There was an article in the Dallas Business Journal titled "Exclusive: Southwest Airlines seeking to expand dominance at Dallas Love Field" that was published in the Dallas Business Journal last month, and it appears that Southwest might be wanting to add nonstop service to additional destinations from DAL. Even though Southwest hasn't publicly announced plans to add nonstop service to DAL from CLE, Southwest might possibly want to serve CLE nonstop from DAL since CLE is the #2 destination from Dallas (after MSP) that does not have nonstop service from DAL, since Southwest has been at CLE for over 25 years, and since AA is the only airline with year-round nonstop service to DFW from CLE.
Last edited by jplatts on Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
greenair727
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:52 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Or maybe the Plain Dealer is. Naymik seems to want to make a big deal about Kennedy's little excursion last Friday; I don't see the point.


I don't know if its how he always is, but I remember at least one other occasion where he went after something (TJ Dow) and wouldn't seem to drop it, writing 2-3 articles about whatever it was. Re the airport, there are a lot more important things to write about--like the status of a new FIS, parking capacity problems since Ricky Smith tore down the long-term parking garage and replaced it with a one-level surface lot, etc....
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4874
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:09 pm

jplatts wrote:
Is Southwest going to be announcing CLE-DAL nonstop service in 2 weeks from now?


WN already carries a good amount of CLE-DAL traffic on a one-stop basis; they may figure a nonstop wouldn't get them much more.

The airport director was quoted last summer predicting that CLE would hear about flights to MCI and SLC before the year is out. So far we've heard nothing. I'm expecting those before anything else. SLC would be an unusual CLE pick for WN, but then so was MKE.
 
phluser
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - Part 14

Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:18 pm

masseybrown wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Is Southwest going to be announcing CLE-DAL nonstop service in 2 weeks from now?


WN already carries a good amount of CLE-DAL traffic on a one-stop basis; they may figure a nonstop wouldn't get them much more.

The airport director was quoted last summer predicting that CLE would hear about flights to MCI and SLC before the year is out. So far we've heard nothing. I'm expecting those before anything else. SLC would be an unusual CLE pick for WN, but then so was MKE.


WN discounts CLE DAL one stops as well, as it's a competitive market with NK atleast seasonally. It was typical to get under $110 WGA just a week in advance while NK offered it. I've booked cheap 5000 point CLE-STL-DAL with the STL-DAL flight being the last flight arrival into DAL. A nonstop would be nice as those late flights get delayed, but WN might be constrained on the DAL side. It recently dropped MKE-DAL even as MKE is a bigger WN station.

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