GulfAir
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Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Wed Feb 06, 2002 11:52 am

Hello everyone, greetings from Melbourne Australia...
My family and I are going home to Holland for Christmas this year, and recently I have begun to investigate airfares from Melbourne to Amsterdam....

My prefferred airline is Qantas (you cant beat the flying kangaroo) but to my families dismay, there are no direct flights from MEL to AMS, all flights must either stop at LHR, FRA or CGD first and connect to AMS, acording to Qantas' website.

My question today is that why does Qantas not have at least a flight leaving either SIN or BKK 2 or 3 times a week, which can recieve passengers from feeder flights from MEL, SYD and BNE?

(It is obvious that there would not be enough pax from 1 capital city to warrant a new service direct to AMS.)

Perhaps even a 763 or 743/744 service would be a good idea...

So why is Qantas not operating AMS in their own right? It would be great to see the Flying Kangaroo at AMS and increase tourism awareness for both countries.

Is it that Qantas is bound to a codeshare agreement with BA??? Whats the story?

Any replies greatly appreciated....

Cheers.
 
MEA
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:05 pm

Hi Gulfair

You have raised a good point & I am sure a number of members share your sentiments/opinion, me included. QF seem to be one of the less innovative of the major carriers. They always, seem to be followers rather then leaders.

I am still surprised they have not considered flights into Athens, Cairo or Beirut considering the large communities that reside in Australia.

I remember reading an article in some magazine, maybe Australian Aviation which questioned QFs lack off service to these ports. The response was that business traffic was no sufficient to warrant these services.

I believe this is ridiculous, how much money are all the Asian & Middle Eastern carriers making from VFRs? It must be quite substantial one would think for those carriers to be able to maintain their flights.

QF's new A330s or B763s would be able to serve these markets quite well!

 
aviasian
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:14 pm

Myopia  Big grin

KC Sim
Bangkok
 
MEA
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:16 pm

Myopia?
 
GulfAir
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 6:31 am

RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:19 pm

Thanks for your input- its a shame that qf dont offer
more services to Cairo and Beirut - especially considering the population, i know the arab community here in Melbourne is absolutely huge.

Not to mention that Melbourne has the largest population of Greek people outside of Athens - so it makes sense to offer a service to Greece -
perhaps a 763 service via Singapore and Beirut if they
are worried about load factors....

Cheers

GF.
 
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eta unknown
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Economics 101

Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:32 pm

Yes, there is passenger traffic to ATH and BEY, but these routes don't make money! The average ticket cost from SYD to BEY is AUD1200 with no business class traffic to speak of- why should an airline operate such a route?

As for AMS, KLM pulled out. There is not enough Dutch VFR traffic to sustain the service.
 
VH-KCT*
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:40 pm

myopia meaning short sightedness.

never did light in physics?
I am The Stig
 
GulfAir
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RE: Economics 101

Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:46 pm

Yes, that maybe true that klm pulled put from SYD - AMS via SIN but, I am talking about a proposal for a flight that would originate in SIN or BKK, recieving pax from flights from Australian capital cities (ie QF 9 MEL -SIN).
Surely there are enough pax going to AMS to generate a 1 or 2 flights a week 763 service from SIN?

Surely there must be.


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AJ
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:46 pm

The old QF5 used to operate a combination of SYD-MEL-SIN-BKK-BOM-ATH-FRA-AMS until the late eighties. Belgrade was also served (QF17?). If the government run monopoly couldn't make that work then it is unlikely that the privatised Qantas will be tempted.
On the other hand there is the potential for Australian Airlines 767 services to Athens/Amsterdam via S.E. Asia
 
MEA
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Wed Feb 06, 2002 3:38 pm

ETA Unknown

I don't know where you are getting ticket prices for $1200 to Beirut, but if you can refer me to the Travel Agent that would be great!

Emirates, I was told is charging something in the vicinity of $1600. I am sure QF could fill 25 business class seats in their B763 with a thrice weekly service.

All they need to do is route the aircraft via DXB where passengers can connect to other services with other carriers like; THY, Cyprus Airways, Royal Jordanian, Iran Air, Syrian Air, MEA even Emirates & Gulf Air.

QF needs to understand that people don't want to fly to London then back track to other parts of the world. When your looking at revenue, I think they could generate a whole lot more by hubbing into key ports with code-shares on other carriers.

Is there no market whatsoever for passengers wanting to fly to Isreal or Eastern Europe from Australia?
 
lutfi
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Wed Feb 06, 2002 6:06 pm

Approximate cost of a daily B747-400 Australia – Europe, 150-175m USD (based on operating costs per hour, plus charge for interest and depreciation)

With 400 seats on board, that is an average cost per seat of 1000-1200 USD, or well over 2000 AUD. That’s assuming every seat is filled…

Without business class passengers to subsidise the back end, the flights wouldn’t exist. Be thankful there is enough traffic to Frankfurt to get you reasonably close to AMS

And VFR traffic to ME or Athens is not profitable for anyone, which is why Olympic and Gulf Air have lost so much money over the years.
 
jwenting
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Wed Feb 06, 2002 7:17 pm

Qantas is not allied with KLM, which is one good reason.
Schiphol and KLM may bicker from time to time but are very close.
KLM partner Malaysian gets quite a bit of traffic to Australia from Amsterdam (over Kuala Lumpur), direct Qantas flights would reduce that substantially.
Qantas also has quite a few flights into London Heathrow, home of its European partner British Airways. People wanting Qantas to Australia would no longer buy BA tickets to LHR (at about 200 pounds return fare) if Qantas flew out of Schiphol.
I wish I were flying
 
quantas747
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Wed Feb 06, 2002 7:36 pm

Stopovers is always a good things.
I love LHR wich connecting me to the reat of the World.
My first trip to Sydney was with QF 002 via LHR and I will never forgot that.
 
LJ
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Wed Feb 06, 2002 8:07 pm

Because QF today announced they'll cut back on international flights. Moreover, the SIN/BKK-AMS route is already full (esecially the BKK-AMS route).

Regards
Laurens
 
keesje
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Thu Feb 07, 2002 12:23 am

Malaysian/KLM operate a twice daily AMS/KUL 777/744 flight with from KUL direct connections to every major australian city.

From Ams there are tons of connections to Europe, specially UK.

I think anyone willing to start competing should have a large cash reserve & staying power...

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
EGGD
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Thu Feb 07, 2002 1:37 am

I'd like to see a 767-300 fly SIN-AMS!
 
kl713
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Thu Feb 07, 2002 1:50 am

Too bad there's no direct connection between Holland and Australia.

In my opinion, it is something that belongs to Schiphol!! So i hope, in the near future......a airline will fill the gap KLM has left open since they suspended AMS-SIN-SYD soon.......no matter what airline....Qantas, KLM (again!!) etc.....
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AJ
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Thu Feb 07, 2002 5:48 am

Why Singapore EGGD? Bangkok to Amsterdam in a 763 is realistic, SAS operates the 767 from Bangkok to Copenhagen.
The recent announcement of Qantas pulling out of Mumbai leaves the option of CNS-SIN-BOM-AMS!
 
dutchjet
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RE: Qantas To AMS - Why Not?

Thu Feb 07, 2002 5:57 am

The real answer to your question is ONEWORLD......QF and BA would much rather fly pax into AMS, and other european cities, via the BA London hub. Full QF 747s flying into LHR several times per day, and continuing pax tranferring to other european cities on BA's many flights out of London. Makes sense business wise.

It is unlikely that AMS could support a daily service to Australia, which is what passengers now demand (flights 2 or 3 times per week simply do not succeed in this day and age) and setting up a station at AMS would be expensive for QF. QF also offers service from AMS to Australia via Frankfurt by the way.

With Alliances and Megahubs dominating the airline industry, many past and potential nonstop routes have been dropped from the schedules. In some ways, megabhubs and alliances have made air travel easier and cheaper, sometimes the result is more connections, indirect flights and maybe higher airfares.
 
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eta unknown
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MEA

Thu Feb 07, 2002 7:04 am

Do not contact the airline direct. Go to any travel agency in the Sydney suburbs of Lakemba or Merrylands- it's all about distribution!

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