User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:23 am

Balerit wrote:
How is the second Neo coming along?


MSN 1813 is parked at the flight line and should fly later this month.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
Balerit
Posts: 578
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:14 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:33 am

:thumbsup: Thanks Karel.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7102
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:48 am

ZEDZAG wrote:
ITMercure wrote:

Looking at the numbers Leeham provides I find it hard to believe that on the same trip the A330-800 would only burn (total fuel burn, not per seat) 9% less than the -200... If you count engine SFC plus aerodynamic improvents...



SFC Difference T700vsT7000 is 11-12%
And the whole NEO frame is heavier so some of that sfc is negated. And it was sugested that at short stages ceo would be preffered frame. leeham used 4500nm route, witch is a medium one. At longer stages difference should be bigger


But it is not only the different engines. The A330-800 does have aerodynamic improvements compared to the latest model 242t A330-200. That includes a greater wingspan and new sharklets producing less induced drag. There are also the new wing body fairings. A weight reduction program should counter some of the weight increase due to the new engine. I find a 9% fuel burn reduction at 4,500nm stage length against a last model A330-200 a rather conservative guess.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:02 pm

Aviaponcho wrote:
And airbus is comparing with non 242t version (ie without last aero tweaks and T700EP2)


Which makes a lot of sense because the A330-800 will mainly replace older generation A330-200 aircraft, and not brand new 242t models.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Aviaponcho
Posts: 828
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:13 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:04 pm

Yes ...
But customer still have the choice between, the NEO and the last iteration CEO (that i guess Leeham is using as baseline)
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7102
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:47 pm

Aviaponcho wrote:
Yes ...
But customer still have the choice between, the NEO and the last iteration CEO (that i guess Leeham is using as baseline)


And late model A330-200 are still sold. Level declared that the lower investment for the A330-200, I assume also including cost for service, pilot training etc., makes the A330-200 more attractive for them and ways up to the higher fuel burn against the 787. I assume that with the A330-200 gone in the future, we will see sales of small numbers of A330-800.
 
User avatar
Jayafe
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:12 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
And late model A330-200 are still sold. Level declared that the lower investment for the A330-200, I assume also including cost for service, pilot training etc., makes the A330-200 more attractive for them and ways up to the higher fuel burn against the 787. I assume that with the A330-200 gone in the future, we will see sales of small numbers of A330-800.


Dont forget that Level is using IB pilots, crew and maintenance (as Level doesnt exists as airline itself) and IB fly Airbus only.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:08 pm

MSN 1795 got some additional sensors applied (note the wire at the back):

Image
AIRBUS INDUSTRIE / Airbus A 330-900 F-WTTN msn 1795 / LFBO - TLS / nov 2017 by gimbellet, on Flickr
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7102
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:41 pm

I just read that the weight difference between a T700 and the T7000 is only about 1,600 Kg. The titanium A330neo engine pylon could be lighter than the A330ceo pylon. What is the material of the A330ceo engine pylon?

So the weight increase due to the new engines should be not more than 3,200 Kg
 
Tedd
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:22 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:53 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
I just read that the weight difference between a T700 and the T7000 is only about 1,600 Kg. The titanium A330neo engine pylon could be lighter than the A330ceo pylon. What is the material of the A330ceo engine pylon?

So the weight increase due to the new engines should be not more than 3,200 Kg


Wouldn`t the A330Ceo pylon be steel, or more likely a high-tensile steel form?
 
pabloeing
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:07 pm

¿First TAP A330 NEO destinations?
 
CFRPwingALbody
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:42 pm

I would be surprised if the Trent 7000 engines are 1600kg heavier then the Trent 700, this would mean that a Trent 7000 is heavier then the much larger and more powerful Trent XWB.
 
User avatar
Slug71
Posts: 1015
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:02 pm

CFRPwingALbody wrote:
I would be surprised if the Trent 7000 engines are 1600kg heavier then the Trent 700, this would mean that a Trent 7000 is heavier then the much larger and more powerful Trent XWB.


Especially considering the (heaviest)1000-TEN should be around 6114kg(highest T1000 weight).
 
User avatar
Wildlander
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:08 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:44 pm

I suspect that the comparison is not like-for-like. A Trent 700 complete with nacelle weighs around 6500kg. The weight quoted for the 1000-TEN seems like that of the bare engine, unpodded. The Trent 7000 with its much bigger nacelle is a good bit heavier, and as a result so is the pylon.
 
dfpinto
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:48 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:54 pm

pabloeing wrote:
¿First TAP A330 NEO destinations?


It's not official yet, but it is known that they're waiting on this airplane to add new destinations in North America, such as SFO, YUL and ORD.

There might be further slippage on the delivery dates, so I'm not expecting this information to be confirmed any time soon.
 
User avatar
Slug71
Posts: 1015
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:07 pm

Slug71 wrote:
CFRPwingALbody wrote:
I would be surprised if the Trent 7000 engines are 1600kg heavier then the Trent 700, this would mean that a Trent 7000 is heavier then the much larger and more powerful Trent XWB.


Especially considering the (heaviest)1000-TEN should be around 6114kg(highest T1000 weight).


I'm to quote this post from the "Airbus working with Emirates on new order for flagship A380" thread. Makes a lot of sense regarding the weight of the T700.

mjoelnir wrote:
I would assume that the weight for the T700 is off. No way a T700 is nearly as heavy as a T900. If one starts out with the T700 to heavy than a 1600 kg difference gives a to heavy T7000. Pulling the heavy generator off the T1000ten, replacing it with a smaller one and changing the bleed, should make the T7000 lighter than the T1000ten.
Somebody, way back, talked once about, the numbers for the T700 would include the thrust reverser. I can not find it now.
We just will have to wait for better information.

A CF6-80E1 is 5,092 kg and the two spool GE are usually heavier and longer than the comparable three spool Trent.


mjoelnir wrote:
Slug71 wrote:

EASA has the T700 at 6160kg on the Type Cert.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files ... 112013.pdf


I know, and somewhere I read that would include the thrust reverser. Or the number is just plain wrong and nobody has bothered to correct it. 5160 kg would make more sense. I would guess below 5000 kg.
Last edited by Slug71 on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Jayafe
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:10 pm

Guys is this a Production and Delivery thread, please keep the discussions in its own threads...
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:56 am

The second A330neo testbed, MSN 1813, has been handed over to the flight test centre.

Image
Flight test center by theo franchi, on Flickr
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:15 pm

MSN 1844, the 3rd A330neo production frame, emerged from final assembly. Was supposed to be delivered to Air Berlin, rumor has it RwandAir will now take the airframe.

Image
F-WWCJ Airbus A330 NEO by @Eurospot, on Flickr
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:54 pm

Final assembly of the first A330-800 has commenced.

Image

Image

Image

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... embly.html
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
tvh
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:41 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:10 pm

How can the A339 take 33 LD3 containers. 1 more than the ceo. the number of LD3 containers is useally an even number as the stand site by site.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7102
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:26 pm

tvh wrote:
How can the A339 take 33 LD3 containers. 1 more than the ceo. the number of LD3 containers is useally an even number as the stand site by site.

There is a space in the A330 near the tail, that is either configured as part of the bulk space or takes one LD3, to narrow for two side by side. So the A330-300 or A330-900 can take according to configuration either 32 or 33 LD3.

http://www.aircraft.airbus.com/aircraft ... /a330-300/
http://www.aircraft.airbus.com/aircraft ... 30-900neo/
 
User avatar
Lilienthal
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:47 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:26 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Final assembly of the first A330-800 has commenced.


So they're going for it? For 6 orders? Don't they have to run a full test program on the -800 version?
And I thought the Hawaiian order is less than certain as well...
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7102
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:01 pm

Lilienthal wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Final assembly of the first A330-800 has commenced.


So they're going for it? For 6 orders? Don't they have to run a full test program on the -800 version?
And I thought the Hawaiian order is less than certain as well...


They are going for the A330-800 and they are going for the 251 t MTOW version with a range for pax and bags of 8,150 nm.

Quote the press release: 7,500nm and with the recently launched 251-tonne MTOW variant the aircraft can operate ultra-long-range routes of up to 8,150nm.

I assume that perhaps some other airlines have shown interest or the aim is for future MRTT and freighters.
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 3155
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:25 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Final assembly of the first A330-800 has commenced.

First of all, thanks for the pictures. I never saw these titles "Airbus production aircraft" before. What's the background?
What else could it be? .... "Bombardier production aircraft"? ;-)
 
StTim
Posts: 2929
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:47 pm

As opposed to a Beluga frame?
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 3155
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:53 pm

StTim wrote:
As opposed to a Beluga frame?

But even this would be a production aircraft, wouldn’t it? But maybe you are correct and that’s the explanation..,
 
pugman211
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:09 pm

StTim wrote:
As opposed to a Beluga frame?



Except the Beluga fleet isn't a neo.
 
edibletomb
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:58 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:51 pm

At 251t, that MTOW is super close to that of the 787-9. Now it hangs on how much more/less efficient the A330Neos are than the 787, and how this impacts range. I'm surprised the A330 airframe is still hanging on
 
concordeforever
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:51 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:40 pm

On a factory tour a couple of weeks ago at least three aircraft I saw wore these "AIRBUS Production Aircraft" titles. I don't know why either.....
 
Tedd
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:22 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:43 pm

Lilienthal wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Final assembly of the first A330-800 has commenced.


So they're going for it? For 6 orders? Don't they have to run a full test program on the -800 version?
And I thought the Hawaiian order is less than certain as well...


Very pessimistic view, you`re not expecting the -800 to do better over time?
 
User avatar
Ab345
Posts: 1044
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:51 pm

Tedd wrote:
Lilienthal wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Final assembly of the first A330-800 has commenced.


So they're going for it? For 6 orders? Don't they have to run a full test program on the -800 version?
And I thought the Hawaiian order is less than certain as well...


Very pessimistic view, you`re not expecting the -800 to do better over time?


Not to sidetrack this excellent thread but AA was looking into the 338 as a way to both replace the 763 and maybe get out of the 359 that US ordered. IIRC it was also pitched to AR and 6E for future widebody replacement and requirements respectively
 
User avatar
aerolimani
Posts: 843
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:23 am

concordeforever wrote:
On a factory tour a couple of weeks ago at least three aircraft I saw wore these "AIRBUS Production Aircraft" titles. I don't know why either.....

Could it be to differentiate between production versus test aircraft?
 
RalXWB
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:36 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread - 2016-2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:13 am

So as production of the first -800 is underway, where are all the experts who proclaimed that the -800 will never be built? IMO the -800 has its niche and especially the freighter and tanker version comes to mind.
Last edited by SQ22 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
mat66
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 am

The 251t version is official then with this press release. Maybe it already was but I missed it. I can‘t stop thinking what could have been if the A330 got the 777X treatment with new wing, cockpit, bigger windows...risky roi I know, but probably 200-300 more sales up to 2030. just my 2c
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:28 am

The 251t version was announced during the first flight of A330neo.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2229
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:13 am

mat66 wrote:
The 251t version is official then with this press release. Maybe it already was but I missed it. I can‘t stop thinking what could have been if the A330 got the 777X treatment with new wing, cockpit, bigger windows...risky roi I know, but probably 200-300 more sales up to 2030. just my 2c


but at what cost?

The beauty of the A330neo is that it is a low risk, low cost project, with minimal development costs which should means more profit to airbus. The A330 has been a cash cow to airbus, and they want that to continue.
 
RalXWB
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:36 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:17 am

Good to see that the -800 is being built. I think it has a good niche also as a future freighter and tanker.
 
mat66
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:18 am

Richard28 wrote:
mat66 wrote:
The 251t version is official then with this press release. Maybe it already was but I missed it. I can‘t stop thinking what could have been if the A330 got the 777X treatment with new wing, cockpit, bigger windows...risky roi I know, but probably 200-300 more sales up to 2030. just my 2c


but at what cost?

The beauty of the A330neo is that it is a low risk, low cost project, with minimal development costs which should means more profit to airbus. The A330 has been a cash cow to airbus, and they want that to continue.


I totally agree, but a geek can dream :)
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7102
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:05 pm

mat66 wrote:
The 251t version is official then with this press release. Maybe it already was but I missed it. I can‘t stop thinking what could have been if the A330 got the 777X treatment with new wing, cockpit, bigger windows...risky roi I know, but probably 200-300 more sales up to 2030. just my 2c


For that Airbus has the A350. No reason to do that bird again. The A330neo is a low CAPEX offering that will do +95 % of what the 787 is able to do with operating cost not much higher.

Perhaps we even get to see the A350-800 as a ULH frame.
Perhaps there will come a A350-1100 as a simple stretch.
But the A350 will be the full CAPEX solution and the A330 the low CAPEX solution.

Regarding the wing treatment of the 777-8/9 compared to the A330neo. The A330 had, courtesy of the A340, always a big wing and Airbus went the easy way to cut induced drag by extending the span with new sharklets. Low cost but effective.
 
User avatar
Lilienthal
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:47 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:16 pm

Tedd wrote:
Lilienthal wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Final assembly of the first A330-800 has commenced.


So they're going for it? For 6 orders? Don't they have to run a full test program on the -800 version?
And I thought the Hawaiian order is less than certain as well...


Very pessimistic view, you`re not expecting the -800 to do better over time?



I have no clue, to be honest. I guess Airbus has one, if they go ahead with only six orders that aren't even safe. Are there any potential orders by airlines on the horizon? Ideally an order that might not just be an A350 conversion?

I would bet we'll see a lot more conversions of PAX-A332s than A338F orders, but sure.. there'll be a couple.
I can't see that many A338-Tankers rolling off the line, unless the Chinese want to step up their game.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7102
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:44 pm

Lilienthal wrote:
Tedd wrote:
Lilienthal wrote:

So they're going for it? For 6 orders? Don't they have to run a full test program on the -800 version?
And I thought the Hawaiian order is less than certain as well...


Very pessimistic view, you`re not expecting the -800 to do better over time?



I have no clue, to be honest. I guess Airbus has one, if they go ahead with only six orders that aren't even safe. Are there any potential orders by airlines on the horizon? Ideally an order that might not just be an A350 conversion?


Is that not only a.net talk about those 6 orders not being safe?
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 25512
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:01 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Is that not only a.net talk about those 6 orders not being safe?


Mostly, but said talk has been spurred by reports from places like Leeham.net that HA has considered not taking them.
 
User avatar
Lilienthal
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:47 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:29 pm

mjoelnir wrote:

Is that not only a.net talk about those 6 orders not being safe?



http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/06/news/co ... VODtopLink
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1205
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:09 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:31 pm

edibletomb wrote:
At 251t, that MTOW is super close to that of the 787-9. Now it hangs on how much more/less efficient the A330Neos are than the 787, and how this impacts range. I'm surprised the A330 airframe is still hanging on


Leeham compared the 330-800neo and 330-900neo, correctly I believe, to the 787-9 and 787-10, respectively. If the 787-9 is an obvious choice over the 330-800neo, which appears to be clearly the case, would make sense to see Airbus focused on the lower CASM, and lower capital acquisition cost, 330-900neo with upgraded 251t MTOW. The A330-900neo, therefore, competes with the B787-10, which offers less range at 11,900 km. Expectations for the 787-10, with marquee orders from SQ, UA, and now EK, are very high! Hopefully, the A330-900neo will also see some meaningful order activity!
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 8337
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:53 pm

PDPsol wrote:
edibletomb wrote:
At 251t, that MTOW is super close to that of the 787-9. Now it hangs on how much more/less efficient the A330Neos are than the 787, and how this impacts range. I'm surprised the A330 airframe is still hanging on


Leeham compared the 330-800neo and 330-900neo, correctly I believe, to the 787-9 and 787-10, respectively. If the 787-9 is an obvious choice over the 330-800neo, which appears to be clearly the case, would make sense to see Airbus focused on the lower CASM, and lower capital acquisition cost, 330-900neo with upgraded 251t MTOW. The A330-900neo, therefore, competes with the B787-10, which offers less range at 11,900 km. Expectations for the 787-10, with marquee orders from SQ, UA, and now EK, are very high! Hopefully, the A330-900neo will also see some meaningful order activity!

The A338 is comparable to the 788 and the A339 to the 789 in terms of size. That is likely the comparison that Leeham made (not sure off the top of my head and don't have time to look). The 787-10 is larger than the A339 but as a straight stretch of the 789 that comes at the expense of range.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 7102
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:48 pm

Polot wrote:
PDPsol wrote:
edibletomb wrote:
At 251t, that MTOW is super close to that of the 787-9. Now it hangs on how much more/less efficient the A330Neos are than the 787, and how this impacts range. I'm surprised the A330 airframe is still hanging on


Leeham compared the 330-800neo and 330-900neo, correctly I believe, to the 787-9 and 787-10, respectively. If the 787-9 is an obvious choice over the 330-800neo, which appears to be clearly the case, would make sense to see Airbus focused on the lower CASM, and lower capital acquisition cost, 330-900neo with upgraded 251t MTOW. The A330-900neo, therefore, competes with the B787-10, which offers less range at 11,900 km. Expectations for the 787-10, with marquee orders from SQ, UA, and now EK, are very high! Hopefully, the A330-900neo will also see some meaningful order activity!

The A338 is comparable to the 788 and the A339 to the 789 in terms of size. That is likely the comparison that Leeham made (not sure off the top of my head and don't have time to look). The 787-10 is larger than the A339 but as a straight stretch of the 789 that comes at the expense of range.


The comparison at Leeham is perhaps use than size. The A330-800 a capable long haul frame, especially in 251 t MTOW, and the A330-900 a medium to long haul frame. Both smaller than the 787-9 and 787-10 respectively.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:24 am

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
BlueSky1976
Posts: 1760
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:18 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:51 am

PDPsol wrote:
Hopefully, the A330-900neo will also see some meaningful order activity!


The A330-900Neo did see some meaningful order activity already. It's gotten past the point where Airbus was selling it based on availability - now, the legacy A330-300 replacement market will need to kick in within next few years, where quite a number of other frames will be bought for replacement as well.
Rule #1: Never trust your government. EVER.
Rule #2: In case of any doubt, see Rule #1.
Rule #3: If it's a boeing, I'm NOT going!
 
User avatar
keesje
Topic Author
Posts: 11322
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Airbus A330neo Production And Delivery Thread

Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:24 am

BlueSky1976 wrote:
PDPsol wrote:
Hopefully, the A330-900neo will also see some meaningful order activity!


The A330-900Neo did see some meaningful order activity already. It's gotten past the point where Airbus was selling it based on availability - now, the legacy A330-300 replacement market will need to kick in within next few years, where quite a number of other frames will be bought for replacement as well.


I think that is the business case or Airbus. There are about 1500 passenger A330-200/300 & A340-200/300 flying around that need to be replaced at some point because their technical / economical life time is coming to an end.

At that stage, they can order the advanced 787-8, 9, 10 family, which offer increased capability, specially the -10 on capacity and -9 on payload range. You have to invest in pricey new aircraft, rebuild MRO capability, retrain / find pilots.

Or order A330 which are the same, they just have the new 787 engines which bring in the fuel burn advantage. They are cheaper / earlier available too.

Image

Airbus inaugurates new A330 Completion & Delivery Centre in China, Sept 2017

Image
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos