BA
Topic Author
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 7:47 am

I just found the following article:
http://denver.bcentral.com/denver/stories/2002/02/04/daily36.html

It talks about UA's position and how it will affect DEN in the future.

Lets have a PEACEFUL discussion about this BIG issue....

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 7:53 am

By the way, DIA is the abbreviation for Denver International Airport.

That's what we call it here in Denver.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
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RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 8:12 am

My opinion is that many are over-reacting to the current UA situation - while DIA is reliant on UA as its major operator, UA is a huge airline that probably will not go bankrupt, and even if it does, it will reorganize its debts and obligations and not cease to exist. CO has been through the bankruptc twice and is thankfully still with us, in better shape than most and certainly a far imporved carrier.

DIA was a very expensive over-budget project from its inception, and while it may have difficulty in the financial markets for the moment, its future is not in jeopardy.
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 9:08 am

I say we get Centennial, Front Range, or Jeffco certified for scheduled air carrier operations and put DEN out of its misery  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

In all seriousness, Front Range (FTG) has some mighty optimistic plans for the future. Rwy. 17/35 expanded to 12000ft, and a second N/S 12000ft runway being built, as well as a control tower. This would make for a cargo/industrial center. It would be much better for cargo operators as it would have direct highway and rail links (unlike DEN), none of the passenger traffic to deal with, and lower fees. This is what FTG is counting on to be able to lure DEN's cargo traffic away. I don't know how successful they'll be if they even get it built, but its one more thing that DEN has to face in its long term outlook.
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
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RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 9:41 am

Yeah, I heard that if UAL goes bankrupt, that 2/3 of Dener's economy will go down the drain. That's how important UAL is to us!
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
DIA
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RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 9:49 am

I agree with Dutchjet.

DIA will be fine. there are always rough waters somewhere, but the afflicted always make it through.

Besides, if UAL did fall, other airlines would be more than happy to fill the gaps at the necessary airports. Like UAL did at Stapleton when Continental left; I remember seeing an increase in UAL flights and size of aircraft. Delta filled the void at ATL when Eastern fell, and so on.

DIA is a great location for a hub, some airline will always have DIA as a hub.

"It's just some' a dat sticky spot in der y'all, mmmhhhmmmmm!!"  Big grin
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
Shawn Patrick
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RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 9:57 am

I agree with DIA that lots of other airlines would rush to fill UAL's gaps if in fact UAL ever went away (unlikely, IMO)

The reason airlines aren't flocking to DEN (lately the have, actually  Smile) is because UA has a sort of monopoly on that place. They are hogging all the space. If UA left, there is a whole lot of empty space up for grabs.

Bottom line: DEN is certainly not in serious trouble.

-Shawn
 
ScottB
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RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 9:58 am

The big issue here is the enormous amount of bonded indebtedness carried by the airport; that's a big part of why fees at DEN are so unbelievably high. By comparison, the Houston Airport System (IAH, HOU, and EFD) had just over half the operating/debt service expense of DEN in 2000 -- while processing more passengers in total.

I think the entrance of a strong low-fare carrier like Southwest at COS would also be a concern for DIA, in case that were to draw a significant amount of traffic away from DEN. Though Frontier is cheaper than United, they're not really "low-fare"; ABQ-DEN averages $180 for 349 miles on Frontier; ABQ-PHX averages $69 for 328 miles on WN.
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:32 am

RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 11:01 am

What the hell was that last sentence DIA?
I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
buckfifty
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RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 11:08 am

It's unfair to compare DIA to airports like IAH, simply because it is still carrying debt from it's construction in the first place. A huge burden, at this very juncture, is the construction of the new runway, when there is not enough traffic expansion to justify it's use.

I'm sure it will pick up at DIA. It's got probably the best expansion infrastructure of any airport on the continental U.S. And rest assured, it will be here for many many more years to come...
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 11:14 am

Buckfifty,

They are not building the 6th runway for traffic.

The 6th runway will be 16,000ft. long. Its being built to allow non-stop service to Asia and reduced weight restrictions on widebodies to Europe and other longer-haul routes.

This runway will make the long awaited non-stop NRT-DEN possible.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 11:28 am

BA, actually, it is somewhat being built with explansion in mind, as it would be quite possible and much cheaper to just expand one of the current runways to 16000ft. I believe the best place to do this would be the south end of Rwy. 16/34. There is easily another 4000-6000ft of space before it would become an issue with Rwy. 7/25. And, another bonus, it already has the parallel taxiway there and in service. I believe it would be a much better and cheaper alternative. Another possibility would be to expand Rwy. 17L/35R by 2000ft on each end.
 
sfointern
Posts: 1104
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 11:30 am

As Mark Train wrote:

"The reports of my death are greatly exxagerated."

I think United needs to be paying some money to the Twain estate soon, and release a press release like this when the mechanics overwhelmingly vote YES next Wednesday.
 
jcxp15
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:05 pm

RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 11:34 am

or... AirTran could buy out some of UAL's 752's, and with the 717's they could get from TW/AA, they could start a west coast operation....  Smile

Hey you never know!
 
penguinflies
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 12:00 pm

RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 11:44 am

If you consider DIA in big trouble because of its debt, then there is no airport in the Western Hemisphere you can really compare it too.

DIA made a good point, also look at Pan Am's holdings, and to a lessor extent with TWA assests being purchased by AA. In the hub cities, if a carrier vacates, there will be another airline to fill the ramp.
 
RyDawg82
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:30 am

RE: Denver (DEN) In BIG Trouble

Fri Feb 08, 2002 2:54 pm

The grading is all done for the new runway at DEN....My last two segments thru Denver I got photos....Basically it just needs the final stages, paving, lighting, etc....As a bloke who almost went into Civil Engineering I understand there is far more to the project...Im just saying its not comming from a dead start, some leg work has already begun....

And if only someone could waive a wond and bring Stapleton back, live would be good!
Ry
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.