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First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:49 pm

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Stitch
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:24 pm

Well now it is clear why the extended (center) Section 44+46 cannot fit in a Dreamlifter.
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:27 pm

78Xs will be made solely in CHS, correct?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:31 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
78Xs will be made solely in CHS, correct?


Yes, as the center section cannot be transported to PAE.
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:35 pm

Stitch wrote:
Yes, as the center section cannot be transported to PAE.

Considering all of the tracks.... I wonder if they ruled out rail due to cost, or was size preventative there too.

Then again, could be both, I guess.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Sooner787
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:36 pm

I assume after the B7810's first flight, it will be flown to Boeing Field for flight tests?
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:47 pm

That is going to be a long bird.

Another picture:
https://twitter.com/Reeega_/status/804050553336725504

tortugamon
Last edited by tortugamon on Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:48 pm

I'm looking forward to it, I think it will merely be the 2nd best out of 3 pretty sisters, but 787s always look good. I think the 789 will be much more balanced and proportional.
 
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817Dreamliiner
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:48 pm

Stitch wrote:
Well now it is clear why the extended (center) Section 44+46 cannot fit in a Dreamlifter.

I've always wondered why they extended the mid body section and not the forward section (section 41).(they extended the aft section as well)

Stitch wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
78Xs will be made solely in CHS, correct?


Yes, as the center section cannot be transported to PAE.

Maybe they should convert some of the unwanted 747-8s to LCFs to replace the current ones in the future.

Sooner787 wrote:
I assume after the B7810's first flight, it will be flown to Boeing Field for flight tests?

Yes, but I wouldn't expect it to go straight there on its second flight.
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:21 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Yes, as the center section cannot be transported to PAE.

Considering all of the tracks.... I wonder if they ruled out rail due to cost, or was size preventative there too.

Then again, could be both, I guess.


At a minimum, I'd think the width would kill any chance of moving by rail.
-Dave


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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:00 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Yes, as the center section cannot be transported to PAE.

Considering all of the tracks.... I wonder if they ruled out rail due to cost, or was size preventative there too.

Then again, could be both, I guess.


At a minimum, I'd think the width would kill any chance of moving by rail.



I think the combination of width, height and length would have been a railway routing nightmare.. possibly doubling the distance
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:21 am

kanban wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Considering all of the tracks.... I wonder if they ruled out rail due to cost, or was size preventative there too.

Then again, could be both, I guess.


At a minimum, I'd think the width would kill any chance of moving by rail.



I think the combination of width, height and length would have been a railway routing nightmare.. possibly doubling the distance


I agree, but I don't think it would even be commercially viable at that point. The railroads are so busy here in the northwest - almost a parking lot at times - that virtually shutting lines down while a very wide load passes through would seem to be a non-starter. Not that I wouldn't have minded seeing it. :-)
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:06 am

Might fit in the AN225, but likely not.
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:36 am

iahcsr wrote:
Might fit in the AN225, but likely not.


Yeah. The cargo hold on the 225 is wide enough and long enough but not tall enough...
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:59 am

In some weird way, this is just the new 767-400ER isn't it?

It's eerie when I compare them in terms of specs. I am probably reading into things, but the 787-10 also seems like a bit of a stretch to try to improve the sales of the airplane (after all, longer is better).

The 787-10 is:

+23 feet longer than the 767-400ER

+805 nautical miles further range than the 767-400ER

+40 passengers (roughly) depending on configuration than the 767-400ER

+17 years younger than the 767-400ER

Now, before you find that discouraging - consider that the 767-400ERs are still flying. Last winter I regularly saw the Honolulu to Newark United 767-400ER flying directly over Chicago. It's both a beautiful and reliable plane that showed Boeing honing in on its longer range twin-engine craft and refining how those airplanes were implemented. However, let's not try to polish the fact that only 37 767-300ERs were built.

Boeing has 154 787-10 orders on the books today. That seems like a decent expansion of the market for this type of twin-engine airplane. It's just stunning that it took so much to get there. It's also stunning that the amount of comfort and fuel economy gains have been made - things which I haven't even attempted to quantify for this discussion. It seems like this plane could well hold its own alongside Airbus' stunning A350 as the living future of long-haul airplanes (and I say that while realizing that the 787 vs. 350 discussion is a bit pointless given the craft are so dramatically differently purposed).

I just hope that world events don't spoil the party ;)
 
Sooner787
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:13 am

That long jet will look awesome in SQ colors :)
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:02 am

iahcsr wrote:
Might fit in the AN225, but likely not.


Or perhaps on top (with suitable fairings) like Buran? :scratchchin:
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:31 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Yes, as the center section cannot be transported to PAE.

Considering all of the tracks.... I wonder if they ruled out rail due to cost, or was size preventative there too.

Then again, could be both, I guess.


At a minimum, I'd think the width would kill any chance of moving by rail.


I can confirm that. When planning cross-country transport for machinery packages, we try very hard to stay within a 17.5 x 4 x 4 meter box (LxWxH) for rail shipment. The 787 fuselage at 5.77 x 5.94 meters (WxH) is way beyond those limitations.
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:11 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Yes, as the center section cannot be transported to PAE.

Considering all of the tracks.... I wonder if they ruled out rail due to cost, or was size preventative there too.

Then again, could be both, I guess.


At a minimum, I'd think the width would kill any chance of moving by rail.


They can barely move 739s from Wichita to Renton
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:34 am

jagraham wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Considering all of the tracks.... I wonder if they ruled out rail due to cost, or was size preventative there too.

Then again, could be both, I guess.


At a minimum, I'd think the width would kill any chance of moving by rail.


They can barely move 739s from Wichita to Renton


Sorry but may need a new thread as it is off topic...

If it is a struggle to move 739's now - what would the plan be for a -10? A body join in Renton?
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:05 am

Stitch wrote:
Well now it is clear why the extended (center) Section 44+46 cannot fit in a Dreamlifter.


The new Beluga XL could be a fit? :-)
( my gues Section 44+46 :: 113ft/ 34m, Beluga Classic 38m but the rear tapers.
The XL is a bit longer and wider moving the taper restriction further aft.)

The LCF is so much bigger but apparently this did not rub off on capabilities.
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:10 am

StTim wrote:
If it is a struggle to move 739's now - what would the plan be for a -10? A body join in Renton?


The required railway loading gauge does not change with a longer fuselage.
Only more length for rednecks to shoot holes into.:-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:59 am

817Dreamliiner wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Well now it is clear why the extended (center) Section 44+46 cannot fit in a Dreamlifter.

I've always wondered why they extended the mid body section and not the forward section (section 41).(they extended the aft section as well)

You have to adapt those sections anyway for the longer moment arm of front and rear fuselage ( 3 + 3 m longer).
The load case does not change for the tail and cockpit section ( as much ).

Nonetheless I am surprised that the LCF is too short ( 33m isn't really long for a 747, right)
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:54 am

Congrats to Boeing!!
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:41 pm

I like that split banner. Nice touch!
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:49 pm

Have they completed construction of the paint hangar at CHS yet?
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:53 pm

when is the fist flight planned? Q1 '17?
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:32 pm

Who is the Launch customer? :o
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:40 pm

SQ will be the first operator.
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:59 pm

jagraham wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Considering all of the tracks.... I wonder if they ruled out rail due to cost, or was size preventative there too.

Then again, could be both, I guess.


At a minimum, I'd think the width would kill any chance of moving by rail.


They can barely move 739s from Wichita to Renton


I've always been told (as a Spirit Employee) that its the width of the rail tunnels in the mountains that prevent the rail shipments of the 787.

The 777, 767, and 747 Section 41's are shipped in pieces so they can be rail shipped, the 787 section 41 is a single piece barrel so it has to be put on the dreamlifter.
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:07 pm

CHI87LG wrote:
In some weird way, this is just the new 767-400ER isn't it?

It's eerie when I compare them in terms of specs. I am probably reading into things, but the 787-10 also seems like a bit of a stretch to try to improve the sales of the airplane (after all, longer is better).

The 787-10 is:

+23 feet longer than the 767-400ER

+805 nautical miles further range than the 767-400ER

+40 passengers (roughly) depending on configuration than the 767-400ER

+17 years younger than the 767-400ER

Now, before you find that discouraging - consider that the 767-400ERs are still flying. Last winter I regularly saw the Honolulu to Newark United 767-400ER flying directly over Chicago. It's both a beautiful and reliable plane that showed Boeing honing in on its longer range twin-engine craft and refining how those airplanes were implemented. However, let's not try to polish the fact that only 37 767-300ERs were built.

Boeing has 154 787-10 orders on the books today. That seems like a decent expansion of the market for this type of twin-engine airplane. It's just stunning that it took so much to get there. It's also stunning that the amount of comfort and fuel economy gains have been made - things which I haven't even attempted to quantify for this discussion. It seems like this plane could well hold its own alongside Airbus' stunning A350 as the living future of long-haul airplanes (and I say that while realizing that the 787 vs. 350 discussion is a bit pointless given the craft are so dramatically differently purposed).

I just hope that world events don't spoil the party ;)


The 767-400ER sold poorly due to its inability to carry LD3 containers side by side. It rendered the cargo carrying abilities inefficient and difficult for airlines to incorporate into their fleets.
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:15 pm

RL777 wrote:
The 767-400ER sold poorly due to its inability to carry LD3 containers side by side. It rendered the cargo carrying abilities inefficient and difficult for airlines to incorporate into their fleets.

It was also, and probably more importantly considering that cargo disadvantage is shared with all 767s, introduced far too late into the 767's lifecycle. If it was released ~10 years earlier we would likely have seen a lot more of them (probably at the expense of 763 sales however).

Same story with the 753 while we are at it.
Last edited by Polot on Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
coolian2
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:15 pm

Well we might finally get a 787 that looks as good as any A350. Fingers crossed!
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:42 pm

coolian2 wrote:
Well we might finally get a 787 that looks as good as any A350. Fingers crossed!


are you allowed to say that here :wideeyed:
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:51 pm

So the 777-300 replacement is finally here. Considering how many 777s need replacing, even split with the A350,I expect many, many more -10 orders.
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:30 pm

itisi wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
Well we might finally get a 787 that looks as good as any A350. Fingers crossed!


are you allowed to say that here :wideeyed:

Yeah amazingly
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:48 pm

Just ship it on a ship
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:04 am

gatechae wrote:
jagraham wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

At a minimum, I'd think the width would kill any chance of moving by rail.


They can barely move 739s from Wichita to Renton


I've always been told (as a Spirit Employee) that its the width of the rail tunnels in the mountains that prevent the rail shipments of the 787.

The 777, 767, and 747 Section 41's are shipped in pieces so they can be rail shipped, the 787 section 41 is a single piece barrel so it has to be put on the dreamlifter.


In the case of the 767, at least, I believe the sections come by ship to Everett where they are transloaded to a barge and sent south a short distance to Mukilteo. There, the oversized containers are transloaded to a railcar and sent uphill the short distance to the Boeing facility. They only briefly encounter the BNSF mainline right at Mukilteo, and there is enough space between the mainline and the siding to accommodate the clearly-oversized containers.

If anyone has additional or otherwise better information, please share. I don't want to misrepresent the truth but I don't believe fuselage sections - in the manner implied in this thread - are being transported cross country by rail.
-Dave


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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:07 am

WIederling wrote:
StTim wrote:
If it is a struggle to move 739's now - what would the plan be for a -10? A body join in Renton?


The required railway loading gauge does not change with a longer fuselage.
Only more length for rednecks to shoot holes into.:-)


Well, when the 737-900 was introduced, the railroad loading gauge was indeed not wide enough. In Renton, a bridge had to be replaced because of a lack of clearance as the fuselage swung around a curve over a river. I'm sure the charts showed it being passable - and it was at a walking pace - but ultimately it was too tight. It just might be that there will be a bottleneck somewhere else for a lengthened -10.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:13 am

william wrote:
So the 777-300 replacement is finally here. Considering how many 777s need replacing, even split with the A350,I expect many, many more -10 orders.


Yep, I have a feeling that the 787-10 will become quite popular in Asia at some point however with low fuel prices at the moment, airlines might tend to hold onto those 330s a bit longer.
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:32 am

coolian2 wrote:
Well we might finally get a 787 that looks as good as any A350. Fingers crossed!


Something that long resting on the tiny feet (MLGs) shared with its siblings, it will look odd while on the ground IMO. The 787-9 is the best proportioned in the family.
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:06 am

Amazing, it's like the worlds longest canoli! Just need a few hundred thousand tons of custard!

Bravo Boeing for figuring out how to make that fuselage, and for those giant windows!
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rufusmi
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:28 am

william wrote:
So the 777-300 replacement is finally here. Considering how many 777s need replacing, even split with the A350,I expect many, many more -10 orders.


I don't really view the -10 as a 77W replacement. It's shorter, narrower, and less capable. Maybe a 772 replacement, with a little capacity increase? Which might just explain why UA ordered so many, considering they have the largest 772 fleet in the world?
 
CHI87LG
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:04 am

william wrote:
So the 777-300 replacement is finally here. Considering how many 777s need replacing, even split with the A350,I expect many, many more -10 orders.

the 777W replacement is the 777-9. the 787 is a different class of airplane.
 
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:37 am

rufusmi wrote:
I don't really view the -10 as a 77W replacement. It's shorter, narrower, and less capable. Maybe a 772 replacement, with a little capacity increase? Which might just explain why UA ordered so many, considering they have the largest 772 fleet in the world?


He said 773 replacement, not a 77W replacement. I agree it would do well as a 773 replacement, although it isn't quite as big as a 773, and because there are only 8 exits, it's limited to 440 seats anyway, whereas the 773 can theoretically hold up to 550.
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:09 am

CXB77L wrote:
I agree it would do well as a 773 replacement, although it isn't quite as big as a 773

Agreed. And I'd say the latter is a blessing, not a hindrance.

Allows them to keep similar premium layout, decent cargo capacity (doubt you're going to max out on volume or weight, during medium-haul), while shorting the Y and thus increasing yield in that cabin.

Seems like a win to me.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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keesje
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:30 am

Great to see some hardware finally, more then 10 years after Emirates started pushing for it.

Image

What will be the 787-10's OEW?
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:28 am

keesje wrote:
What will be the 787-10's OEW?


It is believed to be in the 135-138t ballpark.
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ojjunior
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:33 am

keesje wrote:
Great to see some hardware finally, more then 10 years after Emirates started pushing for it.

Image

What will be the 787-10's OEW?

So, we're about to see Boeing dumping themselves with a 787 almost the same as the 777...
Despite the tech differences, don't know how far this is a good move...
 
ehaase
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Re: First Boeing 787-10 enters final assembly

Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:17 pm

I believe one of Delta's executives spoke favorably of the 787-10 earlier this year, although I don't know what kind of route Delta would use it on.

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