Major G4 expansion here in the Valley.
New G4 routes from AZA:
Louisville
Kansas City
Boise
Milwaukee
St. Louis-Bellvelle
Omaha
Tampa/St.Pete
Indianapolis

alasizon wrote:

wn676 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

I think A30 really needs to be the plan. A modified lead-in line that is about 15-20 degrees off should be enough to fit the plane there and possibly lose a gate in the process but is relying on city gates really an acceptable alternate?

I'm hearing that both A30 and B13 will become widebody swing gates, to fit up to a 772.

The 772 would likely fit as well (the drawings don't show it) but the current priority is very much on the 333.

FWIW, it looks like B13X (haven't had a chance to look at 30) will be able to gate a 757 and every widebody in the fleet with the exception of the 77W and 763. Striping should be in shortly if it wasn't already done this morning.

boeing777200lr wrote:

Major G4 expansion here in the Valley.
New G4 routes from AZA:
Louisville
Kansas City
Boise
Milwaukee
St. Louis-Bellvelle
Omaha
Tampa/St.Pete
Indianapolis

Good to see G4 giving some attention to AZA again.

wn676 wrote:

Good to see G4 giving some attention to AZA again.

Absolutely. It's been a long time since AZA has had an announcement like this. I'm not so sure of the viability of a couple of these routes, but Allegiant isn't generally the type to take shots in the dark (here's looking at you, Frontier). It isn't like everything Allegiant has run from AZA has been an instant hit, but the vast majority of the routes have worked very well...even those of which I was initially skeptical. I think the TPA add is trying to rekindle some of the gold they struck when they added LAS a few years ago. MidAmerica though? That's a pretty bold move. I'm not thinking that one is going to pan out, but I guess we'll see.

I see online that the BA 744 has pushed back from the gate on the hottest day of the year and local news (Channel 12) says that the Sky Harbor temperature is 119.
So, Any weight restrictions today?

This just in: the large block of ice CBS 5 put outside their studio in downtown Phoenix on Monday morning has melted.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

chrisair wrote:

This just in: the large block of ice CBS 5 put outside their studio in downtown Phoenix on Monday morning has melted.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

OMG guess it's time to shut down all Ice making because it melts!!

When did JetBlue end their second flight JFK flight to phx. FlightAware says 5 years ago, but there are picture in the database from 2 years ago.

Condor starting a 2 weekly FRA-PHX from May 2018.

Condor to fly twice weekly FRA-PHX service next summer.
http://condor-newsroom.condor.com/en/us ... w-on-sale/

Nonsense.

Phoenix is a unhospitable, desert wasteland full of tract housing and half dead geriatrics. Who could possibly want to open service between Phoenix and Europe?

Signed,
The adolescent, armchair experts on airliners.net

Seriously though, that's two big wins for the Phoenix area in one week. Not too shabby.

boeing777200lr wrote:

When did JetBlue end their second flight JFK flight to phx. FlightAware says 5 years ago, but there are picture in the database from 2 years ago.

If you're referencing the pictures from January/February 2015, those were extra sections for the Super Bowl.

treebeard787 wrote:

Condor to fly twice weekly FRA-PHX service next summer.
http://condor-newsroom.condor.com/en/us ... w-on-sale/

Seems odd to only do this in the summer when winter is equally as big of a market for PHX to/from Europe

alasizon wrote:

treebeard787 wrote:

Condor to fly twice weekly FRA-PHX service next summer.
http://condor-newsroom.condor.com/en/us ... w-on-sale/

Seems odd to only do this in the summer when winter is equally as big of a market for PHX to/from Europe

I believe they are targeting the traffic to Europe, not the traffic from Europe. I think demand to Europe is greater in the summer, while demand from Europe is greater in the winter.

This is a HUGE victory!!! I am so excited after years of searches we finally have a second long haul!!! im sure many of you are also very excited because im preaching to the choir but when I read that headline I got chills down my spine and jumped out of my chair!!!

Also, I cant help but think BA played a role in this, when they threw PHX a bone with that second daily I really think it made other carriers give us a second look.

I personally think this deserves a thread of its own but then again im just a local fan boy

allegiantflyer wrote:

Also, I cant help but think BA played a role in this, when they threw PHX a bone with that second daily I really think it made other carriers give us a second look.

I personally think this deserves a thread of its own but then again im just a local fan boy

It has for about 3 hours:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1366467

The Monday times going both ways are awful..

910A wrote:

The Monday times going both ways are awful..

Monday FRA-PHX isn't all that bad, the return to FRA though is brutal and I can't think of a reason for that timing.

Any idea what 744 was parked out at East Cargo today? It was a livery I've never seen before that was green and red and had a circular logo on the tail. It also looked like the name started with an M.

So forgive me if this has answered before, a search didn't reveal any answers.

I just started a new job off of Priest and since I'm coming from Glendale, I find cutting through the airport to be the best route. Since doing so I've noticed that on the side (Near Honeywell) there is a front section of what looks like a DC-9/MD -80. I'm guessing this is used for some kind of testing and/or training (ARFF?)

As I was typing this I thought i'd check out the Google Satellite view and i do see a front section, but that one looks like a 737.

alasizon wrote:

Any idea what 744 was parked out at East Cargo today? It was a livery I've never seen before that was green and red and had a circular logo on the tail. It also looked like the name started with an M.

Could possibly have been Max Air of Nigeria as I see a flight NGL613 flew MZJ-PHX today. Currently enroute to some unknown destination per FR24.

alasizon wrote:

Any idea what 744 was parked out at East Cargo today? It was a livery I've never seen before that was green and red and had a circular logo on the tail. It also looked like the name started with an M.

I'm not sure, but it originated in Marana earlier today, but no idea who operates it.

It's left now, whatever it is.
https://www.flightradar24.com/NGL613/dd78ebd

Beaten to the punch by a minute.

treebeard787 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Any idea what 744 was parked out at East Cargo today? It was a livery I've never seen before that was green and red and had a circular logo on the tail. It also looked like the name started with an M.

I'm not sure, but it originated in Marana earlier today, but no idea who operates it.

It's left now, whatever it is.
https://www.flightradar24.com/NGL613/dd78ebd

Beaten to the punch by a minute.

Currently as of 835 PM AZ time that 744 is at 350 and Mach.844 heading South east just south of Boston. I am guessing back to Africa.

alasizon wrote:

Monday FRA-PHX isn't all that bad, the return to FRA though is brutal and I can't think of a reason for that timing.

I kind of like that PHX-FRA timing on Monday. Get some sleep on the plane, have dinner in Frankfurt, get a workout in, go to bed. Perfect. But then I prefer the late night USA departures to Europe. That 2p BA flight we had sounds awful.

777PHX wrote:

Seriously though, that's two big wins for the Phoenix area in one week.

Might be missing something but what's the second one?

chrisair wrote:

777PHX wrote:

Seriously though, that's two big wins for the Phoenix area in one week.

Might be missing something but what's the second one?

The G4 additions at IWA.

chrisair wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Monday FRA-PHX isn't all that bad, the return to FRA though is brutal and I can't think of a reason for that timing.

I kind of like that PHX-FRA timing on Monday. Get some sleep on the plane, have dinner in Frankfurt, get a workout in, go to bed. Perfect. But then I prefer the late night USA departures to Europe. That 2p BA flight we had sounds awful.

777PHX wrote:

Seriously though, that's two big wins for the Phoenix area in one week.

Might be missing something but what's the second one?

I have been flying from PHX to LHR for many years, and found the eastbound flights horrible in the old days. Starting off early in the morning from Phoenix (losing a day of work) usually via east coast, and arriving in the early hours at LHR. I was useless on that day and found it took me about 3 days to shift my time zone. After a flight back from Japan I was surprised to find it much easier, and that made me realize that flying east at a time I would normally be sleeping made everything much better.

After that I would fly to LAX from PHX to get the latest possible flight to LHR, and that worked much better. Finally BA came to PHX and that was almost as good (although at times the departure from PHX was a little too early). So I can work on the day I depart, I lose just one day as I arrive in London, but feel fine to have dinner with colleagues on arrival, and the subsequent days are much easier to accommodate.

So count me in as one of those people who find the new Monday Condor schedule very attractive. leaving Phoenix Mondays at 10:55PM, arriving in Germany at 7PM the next day. The return flight is even better, leaving Germany at 5:35PM, giving time for almost a full day of work, and arriving Phoenix at 8:40PM, so there is no need to hang around before going to bed.

Weird situation happened on my Alaska flight today: we parked at gate 2. Then sat around waiting for no less than five employees try to figure out how to move that jetway into place. About 10 minutes later, they figured it out and we were free.

Looks like a PHX-SEA flight turned back on two separate occasions on 6/29 (bet that was a happy plane if that actually happened) and was still parked over at gate 11 when we got in.

Still wonder why they couldn't move the broken plane off the gate and put us in like usual. For an airline that has one or two times a day with multiple planes on the ground, I sure seem to get hit with gate delays on Alaska in Phoenix. Must be Chester's way of getting back at me.

There is significant demand for flights from PHX to Charlotte, Cincinnati, Grand Rapids, Hartford, and Memphis, and Southwest could add nonstop service out of PHX to CLT, CVG, GRR, BDL, and MEM. Will Southwest end up adding nonstop service to these 5 destinations out of PHX?

jplatts wrote:

There is significant demand for flights from PHX to Charlotte, Cincinnati, Grand Rapids, Hartford, and Memphis, and Southwest could add nonstop service out of PHX to CLT, CVG, GRR, BDL, and MEM. Will Southwest end up adding nonstop service to these 5 destinations out of PHX?

In a word: No. At least not anytime soon. Don't forget that WN are about to retire nearly 70 aircraft in the next three months, and while they're taking delivery of dozens of new MAXes, it'll take some time before they recover from the capacity loss. In some ways, they're still recovering from the capacity loss from dumping the 717s, and I believe they have yet to return to the combined premerger levels. Furthermore, WN has been cautious about adding longer stage flights in recent years to appeal to Wall Street. Everything on your list is a 3-5 hour flight, and all are effectively transcons. There are numerous other markets from the Phoenix area that I would consider WN more likely to add than these, IAD (or DCA if they receive beyond perimeter slots at some point) and BOS in particular.

PHX-CLT — Doubtful, because it's dominated by AA to their fortress hub. WN has a relatively small operation from CLT, and apart from serving DAL, they don't compete with AA on hub-to-hub routes. There are simply more profitable places to put an airplane than trying to fight AA on this one.

PHX-CVG — Highly doubtful. WN has an even smaller operation in CVG on only two short haul routes. Not even AA or DL operate this route anymore, and it's been left to F9 and G4 (to AZA), both ULCCs, to take what's left. CVG was pretty much only a connection point when DL operated this route, and there probably isn't enough O&D to make it worth while for WN.

PHX-GRR — Not sure there's much of a market here. The only service is G4 to AZA twice weekly, I believe. WN does not operate from GRR at all, so that definitely doesn't help.

PHX-BDL — This is the only one with decent potential on your list, but there's currently no service between the two, and I still see it as unlikely for the time being. I believe both airports have published incentives to operate the route, but it has thus far been passed up.

PHX-MEM — It's possible, but probably unlikely. AA does serve the route, as does G4 to AZA, but even DL had this route on E175s while MEM was still a hub.

atcsundevil wrote:

jplatts wrote:

There is significant demand for flights from PHX to Charlotte, Cincinnati, Grand Rapids, Hartford, and Memphis, and Southwest could add nonstop service out of PHX to CLT, CVG, GRR, BDL, and MEM. Will Southwest end up adding nonstop service to these 5 destinations out of PHX?

In a word: No. At least not anytime soon. Don't forget that WN are about to retire nearly 70 aircraft in the next three months, and while they're taking delivery of dozens of new MAXes, it'll take some time before they recover from the capacity loss. In some ways, they're still recovering from the capacity loss from dumping the 717s, and I believe they have yet to return to the combined premerger levels. Furthermore, WN has been cautious about adding longer stage flights in recent years to appeal to Wall Street. Everything on your list is a 3-5 hour flight, and all are effectively transcons. There are numerous other markets from the Phoenix area that I would consider WN more likely to add than these, IAD (or DCA if they receive beyond perimeter slots at some point) and BOS in particular.

PHX-CLT — Doubtful, because it's dominated by AA to their fortress hub. WN has a relatively small operation from CLT, and apart from serving DAL, they don't compete with AA on hub-to-hub routes. There are simply more profitable places to put an airplane than trying to fight AA on this one.

PHX-CVG — Highly doubtful. WN has an even smaller operation in CVG on only two short haul routes. Not even AA or DL operate this route anymore, and it's been left to F9 and G4 (to AZA), both ULCCs, to take what's left. CVG was pretty much only a connection point when DL operated this route, and there probably isn't enough O&D to make it worth while for WN.

PHX-GRR — Not sure there's much of a market here. The only service is G4 to AZA twice weekly, I believe. WN does not operate from GRR at all, so that definitely doesn't help.

PHX-BDL — This is the only one with decent potential on your list, but there's currently no service between the two, and I still see it as unlikely for the time being. I believe both airports have published incentives to operate the route, but it has thus far been passed up.

PHX-MEM — It's possible, but probably unlikely. AA does serve the route, as does G4 to AZA, but even DL had this route on E175s while MEM was still a hub.

Southwest actually has nonstop service from CLT to MDW, which is located in an AA hub city, even though AA serves Chicago through ORD and even though AA does not serve MDW. In addition, Southwest actually does serve GRR with nonstop service to BWI, MDW, and DEN out of GRR.

PHX is also the largest market out of CLT that only sees nonstop service out of CLT on only AA, and there is possibly enough demand for Southwest to add nonstop service from PHX to CLT. Southwest has a significant presence at PHX and serves 7 AA hub cities nonstop from PHX (Chicago via MDW, Dallas via DAL, Miami via FLL, Los Angeles via LAX and BUR, New York City via EWR, Philadelphia, and Washington, D.C. via BWI). Southwest also already serves 2 AA hub cities nonstop from CLT (Chicago via MDW and Dallas via DAL).

Southwest actually does have nonstops from PHX to 7 East Coast destinations that are further east than CLT is, including BUF, PIT, PHL, EWR, BWI, RDU, and FLL. In addition, all 7 of these destinations are also further from PHX than CLT is.

allegiantflyer wrote:

This is a HUGE victory!!! I am so excited after years of searches we finally have a second long haul!!! im sure many of you are also very excited because im preaching to the choir but when I read that headline I got chills down my spine and jumped out of my chair!!!

A "Huge" victory? This is a joke. So many markets are sequring multiple non stop year round overseas flights and PHX can only get this. This is an embarrassment. Sorry to vent but after watching SLC, SAN, SJC, and AUS score multiple overseas flights, it makes me realize how sorry the state of affairs are in PHX.

jplatts wrote:

Southwest actually has nonstop service from CLT to MDW, which is located in an AA hub city, even though AA serves Chicago through ORD and even though AA does not serve MDW. In addition, Southwest actually does serve GRR with nonstop service to BWI, MDW, and DEN out of GRR.

PHX is also the largest market out of CLT that only sees nonstop service out of CLT on only AA, and there is possibly enough demand for Southwest to add nonstop service from PHX to CLT. Southwest has a significant presence at PHX and serves 7 AA hub cities nonstop from PHX (Chicago via MDW, Dallas via DAL, Miami via FLL, Los Angeles via LAX and BUR, New York City via EWR, Philadelphia, and Washington, D.C. via BWI). Southwest also already serves 2 AA hub cities nonstop from CLT (Chicago via MDW and Dallas via DAL).

Okay, but that still doesn't alter the fact that WN hasn't added CLT from PHX after years of opportunity. If it's such an untapped possibility for WN, then why haven't they started it? Fact is, Phoenix only sees large numbers of passengers to CLT for connection purposes, which is something WN can't/won't compete with. If AA didn't have a hub on both ends, those passenger numbers would look very different. Don't pay attention to the fact that it's the largest market only served by AA, and look at the actual O&D numbers. Then consider the fact that AA is hard to compete with, running anywhere from 8-10+ flights a day with connections all over the east coast and onwards to Europe.

I didn't realize WN operated from GRR now, but that still doesn't mean they'll add PHX. GRR isn't a large enough market to make it worthwhile for AA or WN. The fact that G4 operates to AZA twice a week is owed purely to their niche operation. I highly doubt AA or WN could fill a 4-5+ weekly A319/B73G, because that's about the minimum they'd look at to operate to make it worth their effort. GRR doesn't even see AA mainline. Furthermore, PHX wouldn't be worth it as a connection point when MDW, ORD, and DEN are all currently served, all of which are far better connection points.

jplatts wrote:

Southwest actually does have nonstops from PHX to 7 East Coast destinations that are further east than CLT is, including BUF, PIT, PHL, EWR, BWI, RDU, and FLL. In addition, all 7 of these destinations are also further from PHX than CLT is.

Yes? I'm not sure I understand the point you're making here -- my point was that WN has reduced the number of PHX-East Coast flights over the past decade. And not just from PHX, it's something they've done across the board to appease investors. Their business model works most profitably on shorter flights with tight turns, not on lengthy transcons like you're suggesting, and that won't change if/until their pilot contract permits redeye flights. The transcons they do offer from PHX are the few that remain profitable enough to justify, because service to other cities like MHT haven't made it after years of cuts — primarily to boost their DEN hub, which is now significantly larger than their PHX hub.

The restrictive pilot contract barring redeye flights (thus reducing the number of hours a frame can operate per day) combined with a lack of aircraft to provide growth for the near future, and you can pretty much rule out any of those adds you suggested for the foreseeable future. It's not an argument of if there's demand or if WN can make the flight work, it's that they flat out aren't in a position to add markets that are untested (GRR) or ones in which they'll struggle to be competitive (CLT). WN's operations have been mostly flat at PHX for a very long time, and I don't expect that to change. The only potential changes could be the addition of a few international routes when the new S1 concourse is complete in roughly five years.

The Fall AA schedule has some pretty brutal cuts.

DTW, MCI, and STL are down to 2x in September/October
MCO is down to 1x in September/October

Vctony wrote:

The Fall AA schedule has some pretty brutal cuts.

DTW, MCI, and STL are down to 2x in September/October
MCO is down to 1x in September/October

Could it be WN that's cutting into the STL-PHX route and undercutting them? Still being new, I don't know how to look up the loads on there, or if I even have access to that info.

WN STL-PHX has been around forever so I doubt this is some new development. I fly that route on AA often and it wasn't too long ago it was 4x daily.

polywad6963 wrote:

Vctony wrote:

The Fall AA schedule has some pretty brutal cuts.

DTW, MCI, and STL are down to 2x in September/October
MCO is down to 1x in September/October

Could it be WN that's cutting into the STL-PHX route and undercutting them? Still being new, I don't know how to look up the loads on there, or if I even have access to that info.

F9 started running that route in the winter this past winter (although less than daily) and Allegiant just announced they are going to start running BLV-AZA year round (again less than daily). I doubt those two have a big impact (especially in the two months listed) but I thought I would mention it. The price for tickets did plummet for the months F9 was on the route last year though. They went from being $150 and up to as low as 70 each way. WN and AA were matching F9s prices.

Vctony wrote:

The Fall AA schedule has some pretty brutal cuts.

DTW, MCI, and STL are down to 2x in September/October
MCO is down to 1x in September/October

STL isn't actually down, it has ran as 2x in Sep/Oct for the past couple years I believe. Only difference this year is AA is still running the 319 on the second frequency for Th-Su, the last two years the second frequency had been running on the CR9 except for Su. This year the CR9 is only Mo-We.

MCI is the perplexing one, there is no AM flight from PHX to MCI anymore which is just odd given how the market has always performed.

alasizon wrote:

Vctony wrote:

The Fall AA schedule has some pretty brutal cuts.

DTW, MCI, and STL are down to 2x in September/October
MCO is down to 1x in September/October

STL isn't actually down, it has ran as 2x in Sep/Oct for the past couple years I believe. Only difference this year is AA is still running the 319 on the second frequency for Th-Su, the last two years the second frequency had been running on the CR9 except for Su. This year the CR9 is only Mo-We.

MCI is the perplexing one, there is no AM flight from PHX to MCI anymore which is just odd given how the market has always performed.

I may be wrong, but I recall searching for flights and there were 4-5 flights a day from STL-PHX a year or 2 back

stl07 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

Vctony wrote:

The Fall AA schedule has some pretty brutal cuts.

DTW, MCI, and STL are down to 2x in September/October
MCO is down to 1x in September/October

STL isn't actually down, it has ran as 2x in Sep/Oct for the past couple years I believe. Only difference this year is AA is still running the 319 on the second frequency for Th-Su, the last two years the second frequency had been running on the CR9 except for Su. This year the CR9 is only Mo-We.

MCI is the perplexing one, there is no AM flight from PHX to MCI anymore which is just odd given how the market has always performed.

I may be wrong, but I recall searching for flights and there were 4-5 flights a day from STL-PHX a year or 2 back

Enilria's weekly posts are year over year change so

AA PHX-STL OCT 3>2
AA PHX-MCI OCT 3>2

would indicate there were 3 flights last year in OCT.

stl07 wrote:

alasizon wrote:

STL isn't actually down, it has ran as 2x in Sep/Oct for the past couple years I believe. Only difference this year is AA is still running the 319 on the second frequency for Th-Su, the last two years the second frequency had been running on the CR9 except for Su. This year the CR9 is only Mo-We.

MCI is the perplexing one, there is no AM flight from PHX to MCI anymore which is just odd given how the market has always performed.

I may be wrong, but I recall searching for flights and there were 4-5 flights a day from STL-PHX a year or 2 back

There are more flights during peak season, pretty much never during the fall since the merger. Pre-merger, I think it was always 2x 320s and 1x319 that flowed through to CLT.

Jshank83 wrote:

Enilria's weekly posts are year over year change so

AA PHX-STL OCT 3>2
AA PHX-MCI OCT 3>2

would indicate there were 3 flights last year in OCT.

Legacy carriers are actually what was for "sale" last week as opposed to this week while he does the comparison of YoY for the LCCs that don't file 11 months in advance (vs legacies do). Its one of the things listed in the Q&A at the top of his threads. As an example, the BUR change that is listed every month is never actually a reduction, we have been running 3x PHX-BUR for over a year now. I would love to have the fourth frequency back but alas, it has never been planned.

alasizon wrote:

Legacy carriers are actually what was for "sale" last week as opposed to this week while he does the comparison of YoY for the LCCs that don't file 11 months in advance (vs legacies do). Its one of the things listed in the Q&A at the top of his threads

I had never read that line. Thanks for the update. That changes how I read it now.

Samfam1000 wrote:

allegiantflyer wrote:

This is a HUGE victory!!! I am so excited after years of searches we finally have a second long haul!!! im sure many of you are also very excited because im preaching to the choir but when I read that headline I got chills down my spine and jumped out of my chair!!!

A "Huge" victory? This is a joke. So many markets are sequring multiple non stop year round overseas flights and PHX can only get this. This is an embarrassment. Sorry to vent but after watching SLC, SAN, SJC, and AUS score multiple overseas flights, it makes me realize how sorry the state of affairs are in PHX.

Harsh, but true. Given how mush smaller AUS is the fact that PHX matches AUS for service is amazing. SLC does not really have industry, but SJC does. I think that AUS being the capital of Texas, a state which does a lot of international business, probably makes sense. Most of that international business is in other cities, like DFW and IAH. While the titans of AUS probably do well to manage through those airports and its lone BA flight. Condor seems more like a tourist add similar to PHX. SJC is the closest airport to Silicon Valley, so it makes sense there. SAN, well, the ties to Japan are probably strong enough to support it. SLC is interesting, no real single industry that powers it, but hub-to-hub, their service works. We need all those companies in the SE Valley to be willing to buy business tickets for travel in order to boost service overseas. Otherwise, we'll only get things like the Condor adds.

Austin is getting 3x weekly flights to LGW on Norwegian.

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2017/07/05/austin-lands-more-direct-flights-to-global.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

One of the issues for INTL service for PHX is that the market demographic in PHX is so domestic heavy when compared with similar sized markets. Getting daily service to FRA and maybe 4x weekly service to Japan (Air Asia X perhaps?) would probably be about all PHX is going to get beyond some sort of 2nd UK frequency for a decent while. That being said, PHX is in a position to add some great domestic markets that it currently doesn't service.

I can see JAL before Air Asia X, bc of oneworld. Also I hope Phx can bag a flight on Norwegian at the rate they are expanding. I don't see expansion from AA unless they want to add a LH base here with maybe a few a330s or 787s. If AA was to fly to NRT as US had planned to I see them routing the flight from DFW or MIA, such that the flight would be MIA/DFW- PHX-NRT to bypass the need for a lh base. I honestly woudn't be suprised if DL flew to AMS/CDG before AA adds any long hauls out of PHX.

alasizon wrote:

and maybe 4x weekly service to Japan (Air Asia X perhaps?)

HNL just launched a week ago...I'd wait and see how they do if/when they start mainland service. One thing I'd consider too is that their connectivity, or lack thereof, in Japan. KIX-HNL will probably work for them because of the massive demand between Japan and Hawaii. PHX-Japan is just a fraction of that. In order for a PHX-Asia route to survive I would think you'd need a carrier/route that's the equivalent of BA to LHR.

paulsaz wrote:

Austin is getting 3x weekly flights to LGW on Norwegian.

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2017/07/05/austin-lands-more-direct-flights-to-global.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

As a PHX native and Austin resident my heart sank a little when I saw this news.

Does any 'airline insider" know why Norwegian would start service from London Gatwick when British Airways already serves Austin from Heathrow?

alasizon wrote:

One of the issues for INTL service for PHX is that the market demographic in PHX is so domestic heavy when compared with similar sized markets. Getting daily service to FRA and maybe 4x weekly service to Japan (Air Asia X perhaps?) would probably be about all PHX is going to get beyond some sort of 2nd UK frequency for a decent while. That being said, PHX is in a position to add some great domestic markets that it currently doesn't service.

The biggest problem for PHX is that it's two biggest carriers AA and WN don't want to expand in PHX (and the terminal layout makes it difficult for any other carrier besides AA or WN to do any sort of significant expansion). It's one of the reasons G4 is at IWA/AZA. If AA were to give up some gates in N1 or WN was to give up some gates in S4 once S1 is online, than I can see some potential for expansion to other markets. However, AA and WN would probably rather squat on gates than allow other carriers to have access to them.

It's not that PHX is a bad market. But AA's business plan is to grow DFW and LAX and, as the latest schedule release shows, at the expense of PHX (because that's what Wall Street prefers). Likewise, Wall Street wants WN to expand in DEN, LAX, and SAN as opposed to PHX. Unless AA and WN's leases with the airport have a "use" requirement, they can expand elsewhere while having a stranglehold on PHX. It may be cheaper to underutilize gates than give up market share.

Vctony wrote:

If AA were to give up some gates in N1 or WN was to give up some gates in S4 once S1 is online, than I can see some potential for expansion to other markets. However, AA and WN would probably rather squat on gates than allow other carriers to have access to them.

Currently, AA isn't squatting on any gates. In the AM and PM peak complexes, every gate is utilized, either as a live gate or as one of the spare gates. WN on the other hand isn't as good with utilization.

That isn't to say PHX hasn't "grown". The number of markets has increased as have the connection potentials. The number of seats are down but I would say there is added value in the hub that wasn't there at the time of the merger.