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izbtmnhd
Posts: 399
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:56 pm

flyPIT wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
Agree to disagree. According to the US Bureau of Labor, Pittsburgh's economy is growing at same pace as Cleveland's over the last couple of years. Neither are doing all that spectacular.

Their economies are of almost equal size. Pitt is bigger if you don't count Akron. Cleveland's is bigger with Akron. Either way, it's not that dramatic of a change.

Cleveland still has more manufacturing than Pittsburgh and Cleveland's "Eds and Meds" economy is about 85% of Pittsburgh. That being said, Cleveland's "Eds and Meds" sector is creating jobs at a faster clip than Pittsburgh probably because Cleveland has more "Meds" than "Eds".

Financial services are roughly the same size.

Hard to think they're different outside of the energy sector.

I dunno, I just don't see the similarities that much anymore. Agreed the economies are of similar size, but the make up of those economies has shifted. Like you said, Cleveland still has a significant manufacturing base while Pittsburgh does not. I think a lot of that has to do with the much more business friendly environment OH has over PA. As for financial services I don't see how they are on par. PNC bank is the nation's 8th largest bank. BNY/Mellon is the 11th. While BNY/Mellon is HQ'ed in NYC their largest office is in Pittsburgh, to include their largest concentration of employees and corporate flt dept. So you have the largest offices of two of the nations 11 largest banks in Pittsburgh. Federated Investors is also one of the 50 largest financial services firms. I'm sure Cleveland has other things going for it, but the two cities just look and feel so different to me.



People forget Cleveland has a Federal Reserve Bank which means there will always be a presence of regional banks in the city. Not to mention Key is still headquartered there as well. There's 70k financial jobs in Pittsburgh while Cleveland has 65k. They're pretty close!
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 356
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:21 pm

Lemieux wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
Conversely, though, for the first time in living memory come the September schedule, AA will be majority mainline on PIT-ORD, running 3x 738s. That's a big shift from even last year.


This is just my observation and could be wrong. I've flown on the e175s they have on the PIT-ORD route a few times and they are always almost completely full. Seems like a good candidate for an up gauge to mainline.

Also wish they'd upgauge DFW to a 321, it's insanely hard to non-rev on that route when it's a 319 or MD80


In the September schedule, PIT-DFW is 3x 738/1x M80, so about 60 extra seats daily on the route.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:34 pm

Lemieux wrote:
Interesting bit I've heard from my buddy who works the ramp for Spirit/Frontier/Condor/WOW, this may mean absolutely nothing but since the second day Spirit started flying out of PIT, they've only been loading give or take 10 bags on the DFW route, and the loads have been consistently light. If that actually turns out to be true, and with Spirit only serving routes that already have established service, gotta wonder if they'll last long.

Remember though that Spirit charges for the first checked bag, about $30 IIRC. So not surprising the checked bag count is light. After I saw your post yesterday I made a dummy booking on NK's website to see the seating charts. About 4 hours before yesterday's departure all but 14 seats were reserved. 40 minutes before departure they were all reserved. So I hope that means it was a full boat. I also looked at the rest of this week. Based on reserved seats the remainder of the week's flights looked very light including today's departure. However, revisiting today's departure again today, there are only 15 seats unaccounted for as I type this, 2 1/2 hours before departure. There is also a charge to reserve a seat, $10-$50 depending on the seat. So I hope this all means the loads are good.

Lemieux wrote:
The one thing that I don't get with NK is that they're gonna be serving well-established routes that are already served from PIT, which doesn't make much sense to me. As much as I despise NK and everything they stand for, I'd like to see them stick around for the sake of the airport.

With the exception of LAX I was a bit surprised by their route selection of well. IAH I can see when the energy industry comes back and I guess MCO and FLL are musts for any LCC. But I think they had (and still have) a real opportunity to stimulate some unserved or underserved markets, such as PIT-BDL or PVD/STL/MKE/MCI/OAK or SFO/SEA/NYC etc.


GSP psgr wrote:
Conversely, though, for the first time in living memory come the September schedule, AA will be majority mainline on PIT-ORD, running 3x 738s. That's a big shift from even last year. Kind of surprised AA hasn't upgauged at least one of the 3 daily PIT-MIA to a 319/320/738, though I wonder if that has something to do with rotating the E-175s up for maintenance.

That's a huge amount of capacity increase! Considering they will be maintaining a total of 6 daily departures (the other 3 being CR7s). I guess they need to shovel those PIT-LAX passengers through somewhere, God forbid if they used one of those 3 738s to continue nonstop service to LAX.

As far as MIA, it will be 4x daily on some days. 3 E175 and 1 E145. This is a huge increase from the 2x E145 just a couple years ago and the single E135 or 145 before that, so I would not expext mainline to MIA anytime soon. With NK, there are now 4 carriers to southeast Florida.


izbtmnhd wrote:
People forget Cleveland has a Federal Reserve Bank which means there will always be a presence of regional banks in the city. Not to mention Key is still headquartered there as well. There's 70k financial jobs in Pittsburgh while Cleveland has 65k. They're pretty close!

Well sure, if you total up employees working at every neighborhood branch. I was referring to headquarters and corporate presence. Those are the folks that do the business travel.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2013/05/31/the-cities-taking-finance-jobs-from-wall-street/#2c0036a25297



Most if not all of the air refueling wings KC-135s were scattered all across the southern part of the airfield the other day. Not sure what that was about.
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Lemieux
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:21 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Lemieux wrote:
Interesting bit I've heard from my buddy who works the ramp for Spirit/Frontier/Condor/WOW, this may mean absolutely nothing but since the second day Spirit started flying out of PIT, they've only been loading give or take 10 bags on the DFW route, and the loads have been consistently light. If that actually turns out to be true, and with Spirit only serving routes that already have established service, gotta wonder if they'll last long.

Remember though that Spirit charges for the first checked bag, about $30 IIRC. So not surprising the checked bag count is light. After I saw your post yesterday I made a dummy booking on NK's website to see the seating charts. About 4 hours before yesterday's departure all but 14 seats were reserved. 40 minutes before departure they were all reserved. So I hope that means it was a full boat. I also looked at the rest of this week. Based on reserved seats the remainder of the week's flights looked very light including today's departure. However, revisiting today's departure again today, there are only 15 seats unaccounted for as I type this, 2 1/2 hours before departure. There is also a charge to reserve a seat, $10-$50 depending on the seat. So I hope this all means the loads are good.

That's what I was thinking, and what I'm hoping is the case. Only reason the over/under 10 bags thing concerns me is just that with a ULCC I figured a majority of pax would be familes going on vactions lasting around a week or so, and that they'd check bags rather than bring multiple carry-ons, as I figured that'd probably be cheaper. I'm probably just being a naive 22 year old but was just a thought that crossed my mind.
Full time internet idiot. A319/20/21/332/333, Boeing 733/734/738/752/753/762/763/77W, CR2/7/9, de Havilland DHC-8, Embraer 140/145/175/190, MD82/88.
 
GSP psgr
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:44 pm

flyPIT wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
Conversely, though, for the first time in living memory come the September schedule, AA will be majority mainline on PIT-ORD, running 3x 738s. That's a big shift from even last year. Kind of surprised AA hasn't upgauged at least one of the 3 daily PIT-MIA to a 319/320/738, though I wonder if that has something to do with rotating the E-175s up for maintenance.

That's a huge amount of capacity increase! Considering they will be maintaining a total of 6 daily departures (the other 3 being CR7s). I guess they need to shovel those PIT-LAX passengers through somewhere, God forbid if they used one of those 3 738s to continue nonstop service to LAX.

As far as MIA, it will be 4x daily on some days. 3 E175 and 1 E145. This is a huge increase from the 2x E145 just a couple years ago and the single E135 or 145 before that, so I would not expect mainline to MIA anytime soon. With NK, there are now 4 carriers to southeast Florida.


I'm resisting the urge to flog the PIT-LAX dead horse any more than has already happened; it's obvious that on PIT-LAX some bizarre market share games are being played. I half expect to see a third daily PIT-PHX before we see AA on PIT-LAX again. I keep hoping that now that Delta has significantly more (albeit crappier) gates at LAX that they'll give it a whirl; it at least makes more sense than PIT-SLC (although the C Series would change that equation in a hurry).
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:45 am

On closer inspection, the 3x daily mainline AA to ORD is only for about 5 weeks, ending at the end of September. After that all mainline goes away. AA will operate 1 daily mainline (MD-80) from now until the 3x daily mainline begins near the end of August. United will also be ramping up the PIT-ORD mainline during that time, operating 5 of 6 flights with mainline.

GSP psgr wrote:
I'm resisting the urge to flog the PIT-LAX dead horse any more than has already happened; it's obvious that on PIT-LAX some bizarre market share games are being played. I half expect to see a third daily PIT-PHX before we see AA on PIT-LAX again. I keep hoping that now that Delta has significantly more (albeit crappier) gates at LAX that they'll give it a whirl; it at least makes more sense than PIT-SLC (although the C Series would change that equation in a hurry).


DL might be a player in the future for LAX. Based on the response from competitors other cities have seen I'd rather see AS add PIT-west coast and I'd actually like to see DL give PIT-SLC another shot with the C Series. Also curious to see what Allegiant has in store for CVG - west coast (being discussed in the Ohio thread).
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fmi1
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:12 pm

flyPIT wrote:
On closer inspection, the 3x daily mainline AA to ORD is only for about 5 weeks, ending at the end of September. After that all mainline goes away. AA will operate 1 daily mainline (MD-80) from now until the 3x daily mainline begins near the end of August. United will also be ramping up the PIT-ORD mainline during that time, operating 5 of 6 flights with mainline.

GSP psgr wrote:
I'm resisting the urge to flog the PIT-LAX dead horse any more than has already happened; it's obvious that on PIT-LAX some bizarre market share games are being played. I half expect to see a third daily PIT-PHX before we see AA on PIT-LAX again. I keep hoping that now that Delta has significantly more (albeit crappier) gates at LAX that they'll give it a whirl; it at least makes more sense than PIT-SLC (although the C Series would change that equation in a hurry).


DL might be a player in the future for LAX. Based on the response from competitors other cities have seen I'd rather see AS add PIT-west coast and I'd actually like to see DL give PIT-SLC another shot with the C Series. Also curious to see what Allegiant has in store for CVG - west coast (being discussed in the Ohio thread).


I'm hoping DL gives PIT-SLC another shot also. I would much rather connect in SLC over ATL and MSP for my west coast or mountain state flights. I think it would also bump O&D travel between the cities. When do the C series planes start entering service for DL?
 
GSP psgr
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:35 pm

fmi1 wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
I'm hoping DL gives PIT-SLC another shot also. I would much rather connect in SLC over ATL and MSP for my west coast or mountain state flights. I think it would also bump O&D travel between the cities. When do the C series planes start entering service for DL?


C Series arrives at DL in 2018; rumored to be JFK/ATL/SLC birds mostly (example routes: SLC-PIT/CMH/CLE; ATL-MSO/ONT; JFK-JAX/MSY/PBI). Agreed with you on SLC for ease of connections (SLC>DTW>MSP>LAX>ATL>JFK, with a big dropoff after MSP).
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:45 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Well sure, if you total up employees working at every neighborhood branch. I was referring to headquarters and corporate presence. Those are the folks that do the business travel. https://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin ... 0036a25297


Key is HQed in Cleveland.

I know people may find it hard to believe on a.net but Cleveland has many non-"bank branch" jobs. Several regional headquarters are in Cleveland because of the Fed.

Here's another just announced:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/n ... burgh.html

Bank of the West which is part of BNP Paribas.
 
Midwestindy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:05 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
Well sure, if you total up employees working at every neighborhood branch. I was referring to headquarters and corporate presence. Those are the folks that do the business travel. https://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin ... 0036a25297


Key is HQed in Cleveland.

I know people may find it hard to believe on a.net but Cleveland has many non-"bank branch" jobs. Several regional headquarters are in Cleveland because of the Fed.

Here's another just announced:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/n ... burgh.html

Bank of the West which is part of BNP Paribas.


Don't take this the wrong way, but this link tells absolutely nothing about the amount of jobs added, types of jobs, salary, or any real information about this new "hub" or the finance industry in Cleveland, for all I know this could be the addition of more "bank branch" jobs that involve no sort of business travel.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:30 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
Well sure, if you total up employees working at every neighborhood branch. I was referring to headquarters and corporate presence. Those are the folks that do the business travel. https://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin ... 0036a25297


Key is HQed in Cleveland.

I know people may find it hard to believe on a.net but Cleveland has many non-"bank branch" jobs. Several regional headquarters are in Cleveland because of the Fed.

Here's another just announced:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/n ... burgh.html

Bank of the West which is part of BNP Paribas.


Don't take this the wrong way, but this link tells absolutely nothing about the amount of jobs added, types of jobs, salary, or any real information about this new "hub" or the finance industry in Cleveland, for all I know this could be the addition of more "bank branch" jobs that involve no sort of business travel.


You're right. Clearly this is just a one-story bank with a drive-thru. All 65000 financial jobs in Cleveland are bank tellers. Who knew?

Of course If this were in Indianapolis these jobs would be all executive with a new gold plated 50 story building next to the 125 story building where Google will move their headquarters next too. My bad! :D

Here's a broader article. It looks like more than three bank tellers and a security guard:

http://www.itbusinessnet.com/article/Ba ... on-4993945
Last edited by izbtmnhd on Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Lemieux
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:33 pm

Don't think it's been mentioned yet and it may be a bit of old news but AA PIT-PHL brought the 757 back again for the summer, gorgeous to see here.
Full time internet idiot. A319/20/21/332/333, Boeing 733/734/738/752/753/762/763/77W, CR2/7/9, de Havilland DHC-8, Embraer 140/145/175/190, MD82/88.
 
Midwestindy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:04 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

Key is HQed in Cleveland.

I know people may find it hard to believe on a.net but Cleveland has many non-"bank branch" jobs. Several regional headquarters are in Cleveland because of the Fed.

Here's another just announced:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/n ... burgh.html

Bank of the West which is part of BNP Paribas.


Don't take this the wrong way, but this link tells absolutely nothing about the amount of jobs added, types of jobs, salary, or any real information about this new "hub" or the finance industry in Cleveland, for all I know this could be the addition of more "bank branch" jobs that involve no sort of business travel.


You're right. Clearly this is just a one-story bank with a drive-thru. All 65000 financial jobs in Cleveland are bank tellers. Who knew?

Of course If this were in Indianapolis these jobs would be all executive with a new gold plated 50 story building next to the 125 story building where Google will move their headquarters next too. My bad! :D

Here's a broader article. It looks like more than three bank tellers and a security guard:

http://www.itbusinessnet.com/article/Ba ... on-4993945


What does Indianapolis have to do with this????

Although the second article again provided no info on: #jobs, salaries, e.t.c), it did mention something interesting.....

"With this new Center, Bank of the West is committed to delivering the solutions that companies in this region need to continue to grow and thrive"
"Commercial Banking Center located in Cleveland to serve Ohio, eastern Michigan, Central Indiana and western Pennsylvania"

This is office will add very very little to no business traffic because it is only serving companies in the region, as mentioned in the quote.

Now I may be wrong, but the information you are giving me is implying that Cleveland is a regional financial center, not a national one....
 
Cush
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:19 pm

I agree with these posts. I have many friends that are senior level management with PNC here in Pittsburgh, and they require little to no travel via air. When they do have meetings, they drive and are reimbursed the typical mileage expenses. (Most of the driving is between Pittsburgh to Cleveland, Philadelphia, and DC).

The only people who really travel by air are the senior executives, which are far and few between.
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
Cush
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:20 pm

Also, remember, banks are notoriously cheap (in regards to salaries as well as expenses). A tech firm or an oil/gas company has no problem spending for flights or premium travel, but banks will pinch a penny any way possible.
Fly me to the moon let me play among the stars.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:35 pm

Lord this has devolved fast thanks to MidwestIndy's obsession with knocking other places in the region.

The original debate is that Pittsburgh and Cleveland have similar economies. I was addressing a point to that and showing an example of they types of jobs created by having the Fed in Cleveland. They're not "bank teller jobs" as FlyPIT alluded too. They're similar sized financial centers, regional, local, national, international, whatever.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:06 pm

Cleveland and Pittsburgh used to have much more similar economies. There are still a lot of links (banking, healthcare), but manufacturing is no longer one of them – that has been swapped out for tech and energy at this point, and I would assume that has a lot to do with recent wins at PIT.
 
Midwestindy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:24 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Lord this has devolved fast thanks to MidwestIndy's obsession with knocking other places in the region.

The original debate is that Pittsburgh and Cleveland have similar economies. I was addressing a point to that and showing an example of they types of jobs created by having the Fed in Cleveland. They're not "bank teller jobs" as FlyPIT alluded too. They're similar sized financial centers, regional, local, national, international, whatever.


What? You brought up the Bank of the West, and when I responded to what YOU had said, you say I have devolved the conversation?? give me a break....
I have no obsession with knocking other places in the region....what an unnecessary low-blow and cheapshot
Why would I care whether Cleveland or Pittsburgh has more finance jobs.....please.... there are more important things to worry about and bigger fish to fry
All I'm trying to do is have a discussion, Grow up!... And if you can't do that, keep my name out of your mouth!

Back on to the topic at hand...

If you haven't seen it in the Rest of Ohio thread some ambitious Ohio senators want to build an airport in Northwest Ohio, that would take away a large portion of traffic from PIT: link below
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... in_ra.html
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:55 pm

One more link regarding the finance industry, then I'll rest my case on the subject:
http://charlotteusa.com/images/uploads/CharlotteUSA_Finance_WhitePaper.pdf
Page 2-3 makes it clear Pittsburgh punches well above its weight in this sector. How much does this translate to demand for air service? I have no hard numbers but it seems every discussion involving air service in Charlotte centers on their banking industry.


Southern Airways is pursuing an interline agreement with AA:
http://www.tribdem.com/news/johnstown-flights-may-change-destination-from-dulles-to-bwi/article_97d86c02-4cc3-11e7-83cf-973ed96f9fdc.html
This could be a significant development for them (and PIT)


Lemieux wrote:
Don't think it's been mentioned yet and it may be a bit of old news but AA PIT-PHL brought the 757 back again for the summer, gorgeous to see here.

This flight used to continue (same plane and flight number) to SNN for a couple seasons eastbound.


Random notes:
- Every WN flight between PIT and BNA has sold out as the Stanley Cup finals has shifted between cities. I think they missed an opportunity to add more flights
- I continued to follow up on the NK PIT-DFW flights over the past couple days. The amount of blocked off seats during the hours before departure continues to imply good loads.
FLYi
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:02 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
Cleveland and Pittsburgh used to have much more similar economies. There are still a lot of links (banking, healthcare), but manufacturing is no longer one of them – that has been swapped out for tech and energy at this point, and I would assume that has a lot to do with recent wins at PIT.


What you say is a fair point but if PIT is a more of a tech hub than CLE why can't the market generate decent non-stop service to the West Coast?
 
AaronPGH
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:17 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Cleveland and Pittsburgh used to have much more similar economies. There are still a lot of links (banking, healthcare), but manufacturing is no longer one of them – that has been swapped out for tech and energy at this point, and I would assume that has a lot to do with recent wins at PIT.


What you say is a fair point but if PIT is a more of a tech hub than CLE why can't the market generate decent non-stop service to the West Coast?


No clue, honestly. The traffic is there.
 
Lemieux
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:46 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Cleveland and Pittsburgh used to have much more similar economies. There are still a lot of links (banking, healthcare), but manufacturing is no longer one of them – that has been swapped out for tech and energy at this point, and I would assume that has a lot to do with recent wins at PIT.


What you say is a fair point but if PIT is a more of a tech hub than CLE why can't the market generate decent non-stop service to the West Coast?


No clue, honestly. The traffic is there.

Don't get it at all, multiple times I've been going to LAX and have talked with people who were on both my first leg and the connecting flight. I took the non-stop AA had multiple times and every flight I took was either almost full or oversold. Still baffles me as to why it got dropped.
Full time internet idiot. A319/20/21/332/333, Boeing 733/734/738/752/753/762/763/77W, CR2/7/9, de Havilland DHC-8, Embraer 140/145/175/190, MD82/88.
 
Midwestindy
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:00 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Cleveland and Pittsburgh used to have much more similar economies. There are still a lot of links (banking, healthcare), but manufacturing is no longer one of them – that has been swapped out for tech and energy at this point, and I would assume that has a lot to do with recent wins at PIT.


What you say is a fair point but if PIT is a more of a tech hub than CLE why can't the market generate decent non-stop service to the West Coast?


No clue, honestly. The traffic is there.


PIT west coast 2016 O&D data
Q1
PIT-SJC-30 PDEW
PIT-SFO-140 PDEW
PIT-OAK-15 PDEW
PIT-SNA- 47 PDEW
PIT-ONT- 20 PDEW
PIT-BUR 12 PDEW
PIT-SFO- 190 PDEW
PIT-SAN- 83 PDEW
PIT-SEA- 68 PDEW
PIT-SLC-62 PDEW
PIT-PDX-44 PDEW
PIT-SMF- 25 PDEW

Q2
PIT-SJC- 52 PDEW
PIT-OAK- 23 PDEW
PIT-SFO- 200 PDEW
PIT-SNA- 59 PDEW
PIT-ONT-31 PDEW
PIT-BUR-18 PDEW
PIT-SEA-118 PDEW
PIT-SAN- 102 PDEW
PIT-SLC- 67 PDEW
PIT-PDX- 63 PDEW
PIT-RNO- 23 PDEW
PIT-SMF- 46 PDEW
PIT-GEG 14 PDEW
PIT-TUS- 22 PDEW
PIT-LAS- 307 PDEW
PIT-ABQ- 24 PDEW
PIT-BOI- 13 PDEW

Q3
PIT-SFO- 222 PDEW
PIT-SJC- 41 PDEW
PIT-OAK- 29 PDEW
PIT-ONT- 27 PDEW
PIT-BUR-13 PDEW
PIT-SNA- 70 PDEW
PIT-SEA- 147 PDEW
PIT-SAN- 129 PDEW
PIT-SLC- 80 PDEW
PIT-PDX- 80 PDEW
PIT-SMF- 47 PDEW
PIT-RNO- 23 PDEW
PIT-GEG- 17 PDEW
PIT-TUS- 22 PDEW
PIT-ABQ- 29 PDEW
PIT-BOI- 20 PDEW
PIT-DEN- 440 PDEW
PIT-BZN- 13 PDEW
PIT-BOI- 20 PDEW
PIT-FAT- 13 PDEW
PIT-COS- 10 PDEW

PIT could reasonably add service to SEA at least SAN, and probably even SLC
 
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cvgComair
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:18 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

What you say is a fair point but if PIT is a more of a tech hub than CLE why can't the market generate decent non-stop service to the West Coast?


No clue, honestly. The traffic is there.


PIT west coast 2016 O&D data
Q1
PIT-SJC-30 PDEW
PIT-SFO-140 PDEW
PIT-OAK-15 PDEW
PIT-SNA- 47 PDEW
PIT-ONT- 20 PDEW
PIT-BUR 12 PDEW
PIT-SFO- 190 PDEW
PIT-SAN- 83 PDEW
PIT-SEA- 68 PDEW
PIT-SLC-62 PDEW
PIT-PDX-44 PDEW
PIT-SMF- 25 PDEW

Q2
PIT-SJC- 52 PDEW
PIT-OAK- 23 PDEW
PIT-SFO- 200 PDEW
PIT-SNA- 59 PDEW
PIT-ONT-31 PDEW
PIT-BUR-18 PDEW
PIT-SEA-118 PDEW
PIT-SAN- 102 PDEW
PIT-SLC- 67 PDEW
PIT-PDX- 63 PDEW
PIT-RNO- 23 PDEW
PIT-SMF- 46 PDEW
PIT-GEG 14 PDEW
PIT-TUS- 22 PDEW
PIT-LAS- 307 PDEW
PIT-ABQ- 24 PDEW
PIT-BOI- 13 PDEW

Q3
PIT-SFO- 222 PDEW
PIT-SJC- 41 PDEW
PIT-OAK- 29 PDEW
PIT-ONT- 27 PDEW
PIT-BUR-13 PDEW
PIT-SNA- 70 PDEW
PIT-SEA- 147 PDEW
PIT-SAN- 129 PDEW
PIT-SLC- 80 PDEW
PIT-PDX- 80 PDEW
PIT-SMF- 47 PDEW
PIT-RNO- 23 PDEW
PIT-GEG- 17 PDEW
PIT-TUS- 22 PDEW
PIT-ABQ- 29 PDEW
PIT-BOI- 20 PDEW
PIT-DEN- 440 PDEW
PIT-BZN- 13 PDEW
PIT-BOI- 20 PDEW
PIT-FAT- 13 PDEW
PIT-COS- 10 PDEW

PIT could reasonably add service to SEA at least SAN, and probably even SLC


Wow, that does explain some things, PIT has some really low West’s coast PDEW numbers! I cannot believe that, but the level of service makes sense based on that data.

Just a comparison, 2016 Q4 CVG was:
LAS - 696
LAX - 669
DEN - 465
SFO - 444
PHX - 338
SEA - 179
SLC - 143
SAN - 129 (actually comparable!)
PDX - 93

PIT could defiantly see SAN and SEA, but SLC still looks like a stretch. When the CSeries comes in, I could see DL doing both SLC and SEA from PIT.
Next: CVG-BOS-CVG, Delta Air Lines
A319/320/332/333, B1900D, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, DC-9, ERJ-135/40/45/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:33 pm

When comparing these numbers keep in mind the very limited PIT-west coast flights has kept demand to those markets suppressed. Those markets will get stimulated with more nonstop service, especially by LCC service.

As an example demand to KEF from PIT was always low, but I would be shocked if the market is not stimulated by at least 1000% now that there is an affordable nonstop. I know several people that are going to Iceland as their final destination that would never think about it before WOW Air.
FLYi
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:36 am

One week until WOW starts service at PIT:
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/123 ... s-on-board






cvgComair wrote:
Just a comparison, 2016 Q4 CVG was:
LAS - 696
LAX - 669
DEN - 465
SFO - 444
PHX - 338
SEA - 179
SLC - 143
SAN - 129 (actually comparable!)
PDX - 93

Do you have the official numbers for 2015 Q4 CVG for LAX/SFO/PHX/LAS? I'm curious how much overall demand to those markets increased because of the existence of F9. Here's some idea:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/thanks-largely-to-low-cost-airlines-cvg-getting-major-lift-in-number-of-passengers
FLYi
 
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cvgComair
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:08 am

flyPIT wrote:
One week until WOW starts service at PIT:
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/123 ... s-on-board
cvgComair wrote:
Just a comparison, 2016 Q4 CVG was:

LAS - 696
LAX - 669
DEN - 465
SFO - 444
PHX - 338
SEA - 179
SLC - 143
SAN - 129 (actually comparable!)
PDX - 93

Do you have the official numbers for 2015 Q4 CVG for LAX/SFO/PHX/LAS? I'm curious how much overall demand to those markets increased because of the existence of F9. Here's some idea:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/thanks-largely-to-low-cost-airlines-cvg-getting-major-lift-in-number-of-passengers


Yeah, here is 2012-2016, 2012 was the last year before LCC service, F9 came in 2013 and G4 came in 2014:
City - 2012/2013/2014/2015/2016 –––– '12 to '16 % change
----------------------------------
LAS - 200/260/329/672/696 –––– +348%
LAX - 441/420/525/447/669 –––– +152%
DEN - 164/351/387/335/465 –––– +284%
SFO - 289/314/283/292/444 –––– +154%
PHX - 122/165/228/231/338 –––– +277%
SEA - 129/155/163/199/179 –––– +139%
SLC - 108/136/123/155/143 –––– +132%
SAN - 107/131/122/94/129 –––– +121%
PDX - 62/90/90/88/93 –––– +150%

Looks like F9 and G4 entering the market greatly increased demand. PIT would probably greatly benefit from LCC stimulation on these west coast markets.
Next: CVG-BOS-CVG, Delta Air Lines
A319/320/332/333, B1900D, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, DC-9, ERJ-135/40/45/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
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flyPIT
Posts: 310
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

cvgComair wrote:

Yeah, here is 2012-2016, 2012 was the last year before LCC service, F9 came in 2013 and G4 came in 2014:
City - 2012/2013/2014/2015/2016 –––– '12 to '16 % change
----------------------------------
LAS - 200/260/329/672/696 –––– +348%
LAX - 441/420/525/447/669 –––– +152%
DEN - 164/351/387/335/465 –––– +284%
SFO - 289/314/283/292/444 –––– +154%
PHX - 122/165/228/231/338 –––– +277%
SEA - 129/155/163/199/179 –––– +139%
SLC - 108/136/123/155/143 –––– +132%
SAN - 107/131/122/94/129 –––– +121%
PDX - 62/90/90/88/93 –––– +150%

Looks like F9 and G4 entering the market greatly increased demand. PIT would probably greatly benefit from LCC stimulation on these west coast markets.


Cool thanks. Some good growth there at CVG to those markets in a relatively short amount of time.
FLYi
 
tarmacphotos
Posts: 168
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:33 am

Midwestindy wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
If you haven't seen it in the Rest of Ohio thread some ambitious Ohio senators want to build an airport in Northwest Ohio, that would take away a large portion of traffic from PIT: link below
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... in_ra.html



Northwest Ohio taking away a LARGE portion of traffic from PIT?
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4661
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:00 pm

tarmacphotos wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
If you haven't seen it in the Rest of Ohio thread some ambitious Ohio senators want to build an airport in Northwest Ohio, that would take away a large portion of traffic from PIT: link below
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... in_ra.html


Northwest Ohio taking away a LARGE portion of traffic from PIT?


Two attention-seeking state reps proposed building two new airports in NE and SW Ohio. It will never happen and the proposal is getting WAY more attention than it deserves.
 
pgh234
Posts: 745
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 12:48 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:43 pm

masseybrown wrote:
tarmacphotos wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:


Northwest Ohio taking away a LARGE portion of traffic from PIT?


Two attention-seeking state reps proposed building two new airports in NE and SW Ohio. It will never happen and the proposal is getting WAY more attention than it deserves.


Ugh...a politician is always a moron full of hot air. I wish they could become extinct.

Why in the heck would anyone think there is a need for NEW airports when CLE, PIT, YNG, CAK, ERI, CMH, CVG, and DAY are practically empty and ghosts of their former selves.. Lets invest billions on a less convenient airport system for the region when we already have the necessary infrastructure in place. It almost hurts that people "in charge" can be so dumb.
 
pgh234
Posts: 745
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 12:48 pm

A New Lounge in PIT?

Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:00 am

Separately...just reading the PG and a third party lounge is opening this week in Concourse C? That is the first I have heard of this. The duty free store has been in the news and I have seen it walking by. I guess this new lounge is in the old BA lounge space?

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1706100059

I wonder if DL and Condor business class passengers will be comped entry....hmmm
 
Flaps
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

Re: A New Lounge in PIT?

Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:15 am

pgh234 wrote:
Separately...just reading the PG and a third party lounge is opening this week in Concourse C? That is the first I have heard of this. The duty free store has been in the news and I have seen it walking by. I guess this new lounge is in the old BA lounge space?

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1706100059

I wonder if DL and Condor business class passengers will be comped entry....hmmm


It's between C56 and C58. I don't know where the BA lounge was but would imagine this is it.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 336
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: A New Lounge in PIT?

Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:39 am

pgh234 wrote:
Separately...just reading the PG and a third party lounge is opening this week in Concourse C? That is the first I have heard of this. The duty free store has been in the news and I have seen it walking by. I guess this new lounge is in the old BA lounge space?

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1706100059

I wonder if DL and Condor business class passengers will be comped entry....hmmm


Usually those lounges that aren't associated with an airline are free for certain credit card members or members of the company running it.
 
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flyPIT
Posts: 310
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:05 am

I'll add that the new seating and flooring at the int'l gates look great.
FLYi
 
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pitbosflyer
Posts: 49
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:38 pm

So in the press release from the lounge developer http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 71958.html

It looks like they are opening a temporary space this week between C54 and C56. While they finish the 1800 sq. ft. permanent lounge, separately located across from gate C52, this fall. Entrance is $40 for anyone.

The airport must have told them they needed something open in time for the new flights.
 
pgh234
Posts: 745
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 12:48 pm

Re: A New Lounge in PIT?

Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:10 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
pgh234 wrote:
Separately...just reading the PG and a third party lounge is opening this week in Concourse C? That is the first I have heard of this. The duty free store has been in the news and I have seen it walking by. I guess this new lounge is in the old BA lounge space?

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1706100059

I wonder if DL and Condor business class passengers will be comped entry....hmmm


Usually those lounges that aren't associated with an airline are free for certain credit card members or members of the company running it.


Reading that lounge press release, it states that "Passengers of Condor Airlines are also welcome beginning June 23" The wording makes it possible that Condor business class passengers may have comped access.

Third party lounges that aren't associated with an airline regularly provide complimentary access to business and first class passengers all around the world. DL used to pay for complimentary access to the US/AA lounge at PIT for business class passengers. I believe that TK and Qatar provide complimentary access via "The Club at ATL" for their business class passengers in ATL since clearly DL will not sell access to them. DL provides access to third party lounges all around the world (especially Asia) where there is not an associated Sky Team lounge.
 
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ConcourseZ
Posts: 18
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:28 am

Hi everyone. Nice to see lively discussion about PIT. I expect more announcements coming in the fall. Don't know by whom but the momentum is there.
 
Flaps
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:02 am

flyPIT wrote:
I'll add that the new seating and flooring at the int'l gates look great.


Gotta disagree big time there. Especially the seating. Its the same cheap black hard backed seating they put in B. Granted the existing seating was old but it was in terrific shape and quite comfortable. With the new seats you might as well be sitting on the floor. I did think the renovations were looking great until they got to the carpet and then the seating just killed it for me. The carpet would have been fine if they stuck to just a few colors. Now it looks like the T-Rex in the transit hall puked all over the end of C. Its just too busy and jarring. The icing on the cake is that they laid the white and light gray carpeting around the podiums and glass entry doors. Given that the new carpet they installed in the jet bridges in October already looks five years old I can only imagine what that white and light gray is going to look like after 6 months.

To me it was an expensive step sideways. The lounge, the duty free and the store are nice additions. they seem to have done those right. The carpeting and the seating though.....They spent a lot of money but the end result is visually no better than what they had to begin with. Its new but certainly not better, visually or functionally other than the power ports.
 
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pitbosflyer
Posts: 49
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:10 pm

Flaps wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
I'll add that the new seating and flooring at the int'l gates look great.


Gotta disagree big time there. Especially the seating. Its the same cheap black hard backed seating they put in B. Granted the existing seating was old but it was in terrific shape and quite comfortable. With the new seats you might as well be sitting on the floor. I did think the renovations were looking great until they got to the carpet and then the seating just killed it for me. The carpet would have been fine if they stuck to just a few colors. Now it looks like the T-Rex in the transit hall puked all over the end of C. Its just too busy and jarring. The icing on the cake is that they laid the white and light gray carpeting around the podiums and glass entry doors. Given that the new carpet they installed in the jet bridges in October already looks five years old I can only imagine what that white and light gray is going to look like after 6 months.

To me it was an expensive step sideways. The lounge, the duty free and the store are nice additions. they seem to have done those right. The carpeting and the seating though.....They spent a lot of money but the end result is visually no better than what they had to begin with. Its new but certainly not better, visually or functionally other than the power ports.


I didn't know people felt the new carpeting and seating were worse. All I've seen so far, are the renderings, which looked great. I'm flying tomorrow, I'll have to check out B for myself.
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:44 pm

I also missed all of that stuff, as I generally stick to United. Will have to wander over on Thurs. Are any of the renderings or photos of the new stuff seats / carpet online?

I have to say that the improvements that I've seen (new bathrooms, seating in landside, baggage claim carpet) are disappointing. Not necessarily bad by themselves, but not even trying to fit in with the original airport design by Tasso Katselas. It's clear that the person responsible for choosing them doesn't know a thing about brutalism.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:04 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
I also missed all of that stuff, as I generally stick to United. Will have to wander over on Thurs. Are any of the renderings or photos of the new stuff seats / carpet online?


This was on the airport's facebook page awhile back. Image
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:13 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:20 pm

Where is that at? C? You're right, the rendering actually does look good.
 
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ConcourseZ
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:28 pm

At this moment, a HondaJet is landing on 28R. Promo tour?
 
Lemieux
Posts: 71
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:14 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
At this moment, a HondaJet is landing on 28R. Promo tour?

Looks like something's going on, there are 4-6 Falcons parked over at Atlantic as well.
Full time internet idiot. A319/20/21/332/333, Boeing 733/734/738/752/753/762/763/77W, CR2/7/9, de Havilland DHC-8, Embraer 140/145/175/190, MD82/88.
 
flymco753
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:17 pm

What markets could WW possibly stimulate from PIT-Europe that could grow a route for another airline to serve? Obviously DE is doing FRA, so that'll see growth, but what about the future? CDG, LHR, AMS, all of these destinations that DL or AA could serve or with partners for connections.
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 106
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:30 pm

I have heard that BER has been one of the top performers on WW so far, surprisingly. Doubt that would ever happen though.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:12 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
I have heard that BER has been one of the top performers on WW so far, surprisingly. Doubt that would ever happen though.


Bit of a stretch but I could see BER being served from PIT by AB in a few years.
 
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ConcourseZ
Posts: 18
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:27 pm

I remember reading that there is a goal to have non-stop PIT-BOM within a decade. Large and growing Indian population here and they're starting businesses, some with offices back in India.
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread Part 34

Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:51 pm

ConcourseZ wrote:
I remember reading that there is a goal to have non-stop PIT-BOM within a decade. Large and growing Indian population here and they're starting businesses, some with offices back in India.


AI has a bunch of 787-8's that would fit the route, but I really can't see them launching PIT-BOM before BOS-BOM or PHL-BOM. Even with our large Indian population.

Pittsburgh is pretty far down this list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Am ... opulations
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