Only one ship left to search for MH370

JoeCanuck · Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:22 am

I was one of those who thinks that finding MH370 is too important to give up on, and finding the wreckage is important enough, that the search should be internationally funded and continued for pretty much as long as it takes.

Unfortunately, the search is close to wrapping up, with us no nearer the truth of the tragedy now, than we were when it happened.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ip-432363/

The Chinese search ship Dong Hai Jiu 101 will return to Shanghai after spending most of 2016 searching for MH370 in the southern reaches of the Indian Ocean.

The vessel’s departure leaves just one ship, the Fugro Equator, hunting for the lost aircraft. It is expected that the search will be concluded in early 2017.

aerorobnz · Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:58 am

I still question the value of it all. As soon as the pings stopped pinging they began just sending good money after bad if it still doesn't solve the "why"?They aren't going to retrieve the FDR or FVR so they won't solve it, the Bodies aren't going to be retrieved because they're long since fish food and they have discovered more from sitting and waiting on beaches for bits to wash up.

WIederling · Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:11 am

JoeCanuck wrote:
Unfortunately, the search is close to wrapping up, with us no nearer the truth of the tragedy now, than we were when it happened.

Did Boeing ever spent a dime on this?
The manufacturer has afaics been completely invisible in this. Some kind of gag order ?

readytotaxi · Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:32 am

Interesting piece here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-38257433

Dutchy · Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:38 am

They have investigated vast areas, several times The Netherlands, were to look next?

Boeingphan · Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:28 pm

Where's Jim Cameron when you need him? With regards to WIederling's post I'm not sure why Boeing would put any resources into the search as there is not much to be gleaned on their end. They are hopeful it turns out to be a rouge pilot and not an aircraft malfunction. I know this is not what we want to hear but I can't find a good reason why Boeing would channel any funds to something they feel they have nothing to do with.

flyingcat · Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:38 pm

Unfortunately this will not be solved anytime soon. Perhaps sometime in the distant future lasers or new technologies will be able to pick up some wreckage, possibly by accident. At this point Seaquest will be launched before we find any sign.

I guess this will be the Amelia Earhart mystery for our generation.

AirstairFear · Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:13 pm

WIederling wrote:
Did Boeing ever spent a dime on this?

Why should they? Boeing does not want the plane to be found. Current information points to rogue pilot, so new information can only harm them. Or best case, it will do no good.

flyingcat wrote:
I guess this will be the Amelia Earhart mystery for our generation.

I honestly do not see what is mysterious about a known p*ss-poor pilot getting lost and crashing into the ocean.

SomebodyInTLS · Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:52 am

AirstairFear wrote:
a known p*ss-poor pilot getting lost and crashing into the ocean.

Kindly point me to a single shred of this "known" evidence! Or is that lost or piss-poor too?

qf789 · Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:07 pm

AirstairFear wrote:
Why should they? Boeing does not want the plane to be found. Current information points to rogue pilot, so new information can only harm them. Or best case, it will do no good.

Do you know Boeing doesn't want the plane found? IMO I would actually suggest the exact opposite that they do want it found so it can be ruled out. Even though its most likely it had to do with a rogue pilot, nothing can be ruled out until the aircraft is found

AirlineCritic · Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:46 pm

I'm with JoeCanuck, and would love to see enough funding to continue the search.

I also think funding ships to do the search would be far better purpose than many military displays of strength and ability that various countries in the world do. China for instance should, IMHO, keep doing this, particularly with many of their own citizens on board.

Byron1976 · Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:23 pm

The chain of events of MH370 we know is more than strange and mistery continues with no rational explanation at all, leaving us surrounded with theories of all kind. What about the debris founded near Madagascar? Some one told anything about the results?

climbing230 · Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:28 pm

once i grow old i expect to wake up by morning news stating the spotting of MH370 wreckage.Then i shall go back in time and see my old newspaper cut-outs in my scrap book

Grummancat · Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:03 pm

Don't want to alarm anyone, but more than a HUNDRED years later, they're still looking for the Waratah.

Just sayin...

DFW789ER · Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:31 pm

WIederling wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:
Unfortunately, the search is close to wrapping up, with us no nearer the truth of the tragedy now, than we were when it happened.

Did Boeing ever spent a dime on this?
The manufacturer has afaics been completely invisible in this. Some kind of gag order ?

Why? They cannot remain responsible for every aircraft they produce. How many millions of dollars have been spent on this? While I know families want closure, at this point is a huge waste.

lancelot07 · Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:42 pm

WIederling wrote:
JoeCanuck wrote:
Unfortunately, the search is close to wrapping up, with us no nearer the truth of the tragedy now, than we were when it happened.

Did Boeing ever spent a dime on this?
The manufacturer has afaics been completely invisible in this. Some kind of gag order ?

Boeing assisted the investigation with lots of data and simulator work. Otherwise, afaik the manufacturer is supposed to keep his mouth shut.

I agree with Joe Canuck, it is a pity the search is being wound down. The search area depended on a lot of what-ifs, and it might be worth to change some parameters and continue.

readytotaxi · Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:47 pm

I feel that this may be similar to discovering the Titanic. It was only many years later that the technology evolved and the discovery was made. We will have to wait, and not give up.

Grummancat · Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:06 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
I feel that this may be similar to discovering the Titanic. It was only many years later that the technology evolved and the discovery was made. We will have to wait, and not give up.

It really depends on how many people still CARE by then. As I said, the Waratah was lost before the Titanic, but the public was obsessed with the Titanic I guess because of the Europe/New York visibility. Look at all the movies that were made between 1912 and 1985.

More to the point, there is a list somewhere on Wiki of all the passenger aircraft that disappeared without a trace that no one ever found to this day.

I hate to keep sounding like a pessimist, but at least with the Titanic, we had a reasonable idea WHERE she sank. We don't seem to in the case of MH370.

But in a part, I agree with you about technology. Who knows- in the next 100 years, it may be possible to scan the surface of the oceans in detail from satellites in space.

Gonna have to be FINE detail if she came down in pieces like TWA 800.

FlyBTV · Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:18 pm

Grummancat wrote:
It really depends on how many people still CARE by then. As I said, the Waratah was lost before the Titanic, but the public was obsessed with the Titanic I guess because of the Europe/New York visibility. Look at all the movies that were made between 1912 and 1985. (

I would suggest that the reason for the greater visibility of the Titanic was that the passengers carried and losses of life were orders of magnitude greater than the Waratah. Titanic carried 2,224 of whom over 1,500 perished - the Waratah carried 211.

Grummancat · Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:26 pm

FlyBTV wrote:
Grummancat wrote:
It really depends on how many people still CARE by then. As I said, the Waratah was lost before the Titanic, but the public was obsessed with the Titanic I guess because of the Europe/New York visibility. Look at all the movies that were made between 1912 and 1985. (

I would suggest that the reason for the greater visibility of the Titanic was that the passengers carried and losses of life were orders of magnitude greater than the Waratah. Titanic carried 2,224 of whom over 1,500 perished - the Waratah carried 211.

That could be too and it's certainly true. But I still suspect there was a Europe/America vanity in the media coverage then as there still is. Many passengers of the Titanic were famous, important people between the two continents.

It's all a matter of perspective. Sink the Empress of Ireland a couple months before WW1 comes out and even 1,100 dead passengers are virtually ignored.

Back to MH370, it's up to succeeding generations to care and pay the memory forward for the people who will be in a position to use that technology on MH370. At least to care more than people did about Flying Tiger Flight 739.

Noris · Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:40 pm

AirstairFear wrote:
Current information points to rogue pilot

Does it? I thought it had been determined that due to specific patterns of damage found on the aero parts recovered, MH370 likely hit the water in a fast, uncontrolled descent. Also, I remember seeing that some debris showed signs of fire/smoke damage. Is it likely for this damage to have occurred after hitting the ocean and with fuel supplies exhausted?

Rgds.

caverunner17 · Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:12 pm

Noris wrote:
AirstairFear wrote:
Current information points to rogue pilot

Does it? I thought it had been determined that due to specific patterns of damage found on the aero parts recovered, MH370 likely hit the water in a fast, uncontrolled descent. Also, I remember seeing that some debris showed signs of fire/smoke damage. Is it likely for this damage to have occurred after hitting the ocean and with fuel supplies exhausted?

Rgds.

Why would the plane all of the sudden take a turn to the west then fly for hours before crashing? There really isn't another explanation other than rouge pilot.

winterlight · Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:23 pm

Dutchy wrote:
where to look next?

Diego Garcia. CIA emails.

Flighty · Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:55 pm

My dad is so cool. He told me about MH370, "They will never find it. The ocean is too damned big." We argued about it. Turns out he was correct! The ocean IS too damned big. They will eventually find MH370, even if it is 30 years from now. But he won the argument.

It is difficult to truly appreciate that there are billions of places where MH370 could be, and tools to look into those places are costly, slow and not perfect.

lancelot07 · Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:46 pm

AirstairFear wrote:
Current information points to rogue pilot, ....

Now that is a piece of fake news! Some try to spin the information this way, because they want to sell books or they are operating large fleets of 777s.

Grummancat · Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:38 pm

lancelot07 wrote:
AirstairFear wrote:
Current information points to rogue pilot, ....

or they are operating large fleets of 777s.

Boy THAT narrows it down LOL

itisi · Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:04 am

Would be great to know what happened but after all this time it's just not worth pumping so much money into.

Let's hope for some amazing luck with that one ship.

Braniff1 · Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:00 am

Does anyone know what if any military hardware was used in the search? I'm amazed that with all the subs from the U.S., China, Japan and others, there was no finding from the worlds military? I have no idea what it was, but when I was a kid the Navy put something called Pave-Paw out near our home in west Texas. They said it was for tracking subs around the world, never understood it. Hard to believe that many nations subs have not been snooping for the plane.
If anyone can shed light, it'll be appreciated.

Austin787 · Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:28 am

caverunner17 wrote:
Why would the plane all of the sudden take a turn to the west then fly for hours before crashing? There really isn't another explanation other than rouge pilot.

Maybe there was a problem onboard, like a fire or mechanical issue, and the pilots turned the plane to prepare for an emergency landing.

c933103 · Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:14 am

Braniff1 wrote:
Does anyone know what if any military hardware was used in the search? I'm amazed that with all the subs from the U.S., China, Japan and others, there was no finding from the worlds military? I have no idea what it was, but when I was a kid the Navy put something called Pave-Paw out near our home in west Texas. They said it was for tracking subs around the world, never understood it. Hard to believe that many nations subs have not been snooping for the plane.
If anyone can shed light, it'll be appreciated.

Submarines usually would not operate on the seabed....

And that Pave-Paw is used to monitor those missile shot from sub to the sky....

and there are barely any country around that ocean....

tmu101 · Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:15 am

Austin787 wrote:
caverunner17 wrote:
Why would the plane all of the sudden take a turn to the west then fly for hours before crashing? There really isn't another explanation other than rouge pilot.

Maybe there was a problem onboard, like a fire or mechanical issue, and the pilots turned the plane to prepare for an emergency landing.

I think this is very plausible and while trying to get back to Kuala Lumpur something incapacitated everyone on board but the plane kept flying for hours afterwards until exhausting all fuel, similar to the Payne Stewart tragedy.

aerorobnz · Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:12 am

They have wasted millions for nothing. The moment the blackbox pings stopped and they still didn't have any sign they should have stopped the public ventures and public funding same as any more localised search and rescue effort.

LAX772LR · Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:30 am

aerorobnz wrote:
They have wasted millions for nothing.

I wonder if people will be saying that when you die miserably in a crash that could possible have been prevented with lessons learned from this one? :scratchchin:

hz747300 · Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:12 am

I agree it is too important to give up on as well, at least not 100%. Even it is one ship, keep going. Some day, something will be found, and it never hurts to map the seabed either. As I said in a post years ago, as long as they are dual purposing the trip it is not a total waste.

aerorobnz · Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:35 am

LAX772LR wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
They have wasted millions for nothing.

I wonder if people will be saying that when you die miserably in a crash that could possible have been prevented with lessons learned from this one?

If they even had a crash site I'd agree there might be some point, but they don't, and the longer they go on the less evidence is there to be found anyway so it won't help them find out any more than standing on a beach picking up debris.

They have learned nothing and prevented nothing by continuing this search so whether I die in a "related" 777 crash is irrelevant to the discussion and an overemotional response to a rational mindset.

JannEejit · Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:36 am

If Boeing is interested in anything, then surely it's in seeing something like this cannot happen again, unlikely as it is. So in a technology sense what is the ideal solution to constant aircraft tracking ? What needs to be installed deep within the aircraft so that it's position can ALWAYS be located and not tampered with like transponders can.

BaconButty · Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:41 am

Braniff1 wrote:
Does anyone know what if any military hardware was used in the search? I'm amazed that with all the subs from the U.S., China, Japan and others, there was no finding from the worlds military? I have no idea what it was, but when I was a kid the Navy put something called Pave-Paw out near our home in west Texas. They said it was for tracking subs around the world, never understood it. Hard to believe that many nations subs have not been snooping for the plane.
If anyone can shed light, it'll be appreciated.

HMS Tireless (an SSN) and HMS Echo (a survey ship) were used in the initial search - trying to locate the black boxes via the "pinger". However, the AUV's used by the military tend to focus on minesweeping in relatively shallow waters and the littoral. I don't know about other navies, but the RN uses Remus 100's and 600's made by Kongsberg - the number reflects the maximum operating depth in meters. It was a Remus 6000 that found AF447, and that would have been marginal for this search - iirc some "valleys" in the search area go down to 7000 meters. The MH370 search used towfish mounted sonars.

gia777 · Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:00 pm

Because the plane never meant to be found. The Malaysian government know where the plane is. Look, are you telling me now that an unknown aircraft can fly into different countries without military concern???? That means technically, I could fly over Malaysian airspace right now without being intercept by their F-16!!! This whole things is BS.

Dutchy · Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:13 pm

gia777 wrote:
Because the plane never meant to be found. The Malaysian government know where the plane is. Look, are you telling me now that an unknown aircraft can fly into different countries without military concern???? That means technically, I could fly over Malaysian airspace right now without being intercept by their F-16!!! This whole things is BS.

I for one would be quite surprised if MH370 was intercepted by Malaysian F-16's, since they don't have any

But you are a conspiracy enthusiast? Perhaps I can interest you in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1344405

Perhaps you could share your views here?

ikolkyo · Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:16 pm

Dutchy wrote:
gia777 wrote:
Because the plane never meant to be found. The Malaysian government know where the plane is. Look, are you telling me now that an unknown aircraft can fly into different countries without military concern???? That means technically, I could fly over Malaysian airspace right now without being intercept by their F-16!!! This whole things is BS.

I for one would be quite surprised if MH370 was intercepted by Malaysian F-16's, since they don't have any

But you are a conspiracy enthusiast? Perhaps I can interest you in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1344405

Perhaps you could share your views here?

God, just reading some of those posts hurts my head. Some of these guys have to be trolls.

Boeingphan · Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:21 pm

gia777 wrote:
Because the plane never meant to be found. The Malaysian government know where the plane is. Look, are you telling me now that an unknown aircraft can fly into different countries without military concern???? That means technically, I could fly over Malaysian airspace right now without being intercept by their F-16!!! This whole things is BS.

Yep and Shaq believes the earth is flat... great insight

Dutchy · Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:31 pm

The ocean is big, very big, I think 208.000km2 of the ocean bottom has been searched, where off 120.000km2 has been surveyed after the ping died. For reference, that is three times the Netherlands or for you Americans, an area of the American state of Mississippi. The MH370 could lay within 1 meter of the surveyed area and you never know that is there. That happened to the search for the AF447, it was eventually found near the initial search area, and in case of AF447, debris was found within hours, in the case of MH370, the search was moved to the correct place ten days after it went missing. The task is formidable, it is the same as with Titanic, it was found eventually in 1985, some 73 years after it sunk.
I think in the end it will be found, but it is in a very remote area.

Blimpie · Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:23 pm

My theory is the aircraft is in someone's back yard safe and sound and is being used as an AV geek's game room. But, don't quote me on it.

Slcpilot · Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:25 pm

For me, personally, the fact the plane navigated the FIR border suggests it was not an "emergency", or technical fault. It also suggests to me that it was done by someone with significant aviation knowledge. My wager would be with very great odds the Captain did it.

SLCPilot

vhtje · Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:47 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
I still question the value of it all. As soon as the pings stopped pinging they began just sending good money after bad if it still doesn't solve the "why"?They aren't going to retrieve the FDR or FVR so they won't solve it, the Bodies aren't going to be retrieved because they're long since fish food and they have discovered more from sitting and waiting on beaches for bits to wash up.

That is the most callous and dispassionate post I have read on this forum in a long time. Not to mention, extremely thoughtless as well.

How do you know the FDR and FVR are not going to be retrieved if the wreckage was found?

WIederling · Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:24 pm

AirstairFear wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Did Boeing ever spent a dime on this?

Why should they? Boeing does not want the plane to be found. Current information points to rogue pilot, so new information can only harm them. Or best case, it will do no good.

flyingcat wrote:
I guess this will be the Amelia Earhart mystery for our generation.

I honestly do not see what is mysterious about a known p*ss-poor pilot getting lost and crashing into the ocean.

Ah, blindingly brilliant, your reasoning.

dfwjim1 · Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:55 pm

On the practical side, who is financing the expense of operating and keeping the one remaining ship in the hunt?

TransGlobalGold · Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:32 pm

AirstairFear wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Did Boeing ever spent a dime on this?

Why should they? Boeing does not want the plane to be found. Current information points to rogue pilot, so new information can only harm them. Or best case, it will do no good.

flyingcat wrote:
I guess this will be the Amelia Earhart mystery for our generation.

I honestly do not see what is mysterious about a known p*ss-poor pilot getting lost and crashing into the ocean.

Boeing would most likely want to know what happened to determine if its disappearance was mechanical or do to human intervention. The 777 has been a remarkably safe aircraft over the years.

747megatop · Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:46 pm

TransGlobalGold wrote:
AirstairFear wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Did Boeing ever spent a dime on this?

Why should they? Boeing does not want the plane to be found. Current information points to rogue pilot, so new information can only harm them. Or best case, it will do no good.

flyingcat wrote:
I guess this will be the Amelia Earhart mystery for our generation.

I honestly do not see what is mysterious about a known p*ss-poor pilot getting lost and crashing into the ocean.

Boeing would most likely want to know what happened to determine if its disappearance was mechanical or do to human intervention. The 777 has been a remarkably safe aircraft over the years.

The BIG takeaway from MH 370 (and AF 447) is that the current state of the art of black boxes is outdated. Alternative technologies are needed to house the FDR and CVR data in a centralized location via satellite links & near realtime position monitoring of aicrafts are needed. Hopefully industry can work speedily towards both rather than debate on it for years. Actually both are actually already being implemented in some form in cases here and there along with being on the drawing boards in other cases.

bennett123 · Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:52 pm

Could these be retrofitted or only on new types?.

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