dtwpilot225
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:31 am

Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:01 am

I sincerely appologize if this has already been discussed, I have been away from this forum for awhile: I'm looking forward to delta introducing the c series in early 2018x. They are getting 75 but if it performs well we should see a mix of 150 of the 100/300 series so where do you all think it will fly? These are my early predictions for each base . Note that I don't have anything for Atlanta because at least initially Atlanta will be the md88 shut down base and it can handle bigger planes.

Sea-las
Sea-pdx
Sea-anc
Sea-bna
Sea-aus
Sea-slc
Sea-lga

Lga-dfw
Lga-ord
Lga-clt
Lga-stl
Lga-iah
Lga-ind
Lga-jax
Lga-Msy
 
flyfresno
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Delta c series routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:35 am

SEA-LGA? Really?
 
MaxTrimm
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:43 pm

Re: Delta c series routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:19 am

I doubt SEA will get the C-Series. A whole slew of new SkyWest E175's are coming in along with the current Compass ones.
 
User avatar
bluefltspecial
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:27 pm

Re: Delta c series routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:20 am

flyfresno wrote:
SEA-LGA? Really?


Yeah... ummm ... I can only assume that was a mistake, doesn't have the authority to pass the perimeter rule...

dtwpilot225 wrote:
I sincerely appologize if this has already been discussed, I have been away from this forum for awhile: I'm looking forward to delta introducing the c series in early 2018x. They are getting 75 but if it performs well we should see a mix of 150 of the 100/300 series so where do you all think it will fly? These are my early predictions for each base . Note that I don't have anything for Atlanta because at least initially Atlanta will be the md88 shut down base and it can handle bigger planes.

Sea-las
Sea-pdx
Sea-anc
Sea-bna
Sea-aus
Sea-slc
Sea-lga

Lga-dfw
Lga-ord
Lga-clt
Lga-stl
Lga-iah
Lga-ind
Lga-jax
Lga-Msy


While I see some of these being spot-on there are some other things to take into consideration.
-LGA-IND
This is a huge MX and crewbase for S5/Republic... They will need to continue to operate on this route to cycle aircraft through their facilities.
-LGA-STL
IIRC this is a large GoJet operation base, somewhat of a survior of the TransStates operations. As above, there is a large crewbase and/was a large amount of RON aircraft there for them there for the DL operation.
-LGA-MSY
is a seasonal market it has seen everything from MD-80s and A319s down to E170s/CR7s. I think it will continue to go see ups and downs due to seasonal demand.
-LGA-DFW/IAH
DFW has a long history of Delta service, IAH has always been a tough sell with UA holding that market with loyal fliers... I always thought that DFW/IAH would be an ideal market with the A319 as the aircraft now have IFE, but it would seem Delta sees that DFW and IAH are better served with Frequency than capacity, with six E170s weekdays to DFW and usually 4-5 to IAH. The front on both are usually full in mornings and evenings, the back is hit and miss. I've learned to just fork over the extra $$ on those routes to sit up front as it's usually full and I have only cleared the upgrade list once or twice (my rule is +2.5 hours block, pay to sit up front)... So, yields are there up front at least. Since the aircraft cycle as a round trip from LGA and it's a 4 hour block each way, in the back one end is usually empty. IF they decide to go with the CS on that route, they would be smart to cycle the aircraft LGA-DFW-HUB and vice versa to make it profitable.

I would not be surprised to see it operating to upstate cities like BUF/SYR/ROC and even BTV and PWM during season and places like LGA-RIC/ORF or even some of the 717 cities like ATL-CHO/EVV/MSN

If the C Series can really hold it's own with it's promises on distance and burn, I think you'll see Delta investigating some more thinner routes and try to stir the market like SLC-RIC as UA's DEN-RIC has surpassed expectations already. It also begs to ask the questions with a limit of perhaps 3k miles... will they be putting IFE screens in? Seems like a smart choice... and of course, what will the seat plan be I assumed something along the idea of F12/Y80, thoughts? More or less seats will dictate which long thin routes they can/can't operate I would assume...

Delta likes frequency in luring business passengers, so I would not surprised at all to see frequency increase from SEA on markets currently served a few times a day with larger aircraft down to the C series with more flights... Think SEA-MKE... which always did well on Midwest could easily go x3 daily with a 100 seat with connections in SEA... just my .02 though

With 75 aircraft coming on board from the CS... it does make one wonder... are some of the regionals going to get the boot?


[edit spelling]
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
n7371f
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Delta c series routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:46 am

MaxTrimm wrote:
I doubt SEA will get the C-Series. A whole slew of new SkyWest E175's are coming in along with the current Compass ones.


SEA will be a launch market when the C-Series comes on-line. In fact the order is based partly on SEA being the ideal market for the aircraft. In the most recent BoD briefing, the C-Series was presented as the perfect aircraft to grow SEA.

The E7W at OO is more to improve the product on DL Connection out of SEA and along the west coast (from Compass) - and also allow Compass to slowly retreat from the WC. In fact don't be surprised if Compass loses it's DL flying in a few years. CZ is DL's worst performing operator along with GoJet - both owned by TransStates.
 
CRJ900
Posts: 2112
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:23 am

I read here on a.net that the first 35 CSeries for Delta are firmed as CS100, the remaining 40 can be either CS100 or CS300 or both as well as the 50 options. So, 35 CS100 are probably easier to find homes for being a small fleet. Can SEA handle 35 aircraft if other types are relocated?

The big question is how DL will configure these birds. I personally think that the Basic Economy concept now sweeping America will result in some Y seats being re-pitched to 28-29 inches and permanently offered as Basic Economy. This will work well on the CSeries as seats are 18/19 inches wide with slimline seats. F and Y+ sections may also see reductions in seat numbers if airlines are stricter with FF upgrades due to increasing restrictions on Y fares. I think the DL CS100 will have at least 113 seats and the CS300 141 seats. Smart-Flex galley/lav combos are also looked at, BBD confirmed a couple years ago.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 905
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:46 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
I read here on a.net that the first 35 CSeries for Delta are firmed as CS100, the remaining 40 can be either CS100 or CS300 or both as well as the 50 options. So, 35 CS100 are probably easier to find homes for being a small fleet. Can SEA handle 35 aircraft if other types are relocated?

The big question is how DL will configure these birds. I personally think that the Basic Economy concept now sweeping America will result in some Y seats being re-pitched to 28-29 inches and permanently offered as Basic Economy. This will work well on the CSeries as seats are 18/19 inches wide with slimline seats. F and Y+ sections may also see reductions in seat numbers if airlines are stricter with FF upgrades due to increasing restrictions on Y fares. I think the DL CS100 will have at least 113 seats and the CS300 141 seats. Smart-Flex galley/lav combos are also looked at, BBD confirmed a couple years ago.


Delta had already announced that since these will be mainline planes, the seat size in Y will be 31"/18.25". As for where they will fly, anywhere a 717 flies, I suspect a CS100 will fly, and anywhere an MD-88 flies, a CS300 will fly. Delta tends to stick to 31" seat pitch but follow the manufacturer's recommendation on seat width. The CS300 would work great out of ATL or MSP.
 
User avatar
24Whiskey
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:05 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:43 pm

I've been thinking DTW/JFK-AUS/SAT would be prime CS100 routes.

They're some of the longer blocked RJ routes in the east. Usually a 319/320 in the summer but in the winter goes all CR9/E75 and sometimes struggles with payload issues. As far as the B717 goes I've been told it has payload issues as well and I only ever see it in the summer.
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:33 pm

I can also see them (eventually) using the 100 to expand RDU / BOS and other non-mega hub airports where DL has a larger than usual presence. It could make routes that would be tough today (say anything into Chicago) more economically viable while serving corporate contract demands.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
compensateme
Posts: 2146
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Delta c series routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:40 pm

n7371f wrote:
SEA will be a launch market when the C-Series comes on-line. In fact the order is based partly on SEA being the ideal market for the aircraft. In the most recent BoD briefing, the C-Series was presented as the perfect aircraft to grow SEA.

The E7W at OO is more to improve the product on DL Connection out of SEA and along the west coast (from Compass) - and also allow Compass to slowly retreat from the WC. In fact don't be surprised if Compass loses it's DL flying in a few years. CZ is DL's worst performing operator along with GoJet - both owned by TransStates.


With most of the Connection routes pulling in LF in the high 60s/low 70s and trailing AS in average fare by anywhere from 5%-20%, it'd be really, really hard for DL to justify opening its initial C-series base at SEA. Unless DL plans a massive expansion of east-west flows using the C-series -- which carries considerable risk initially -- I'm very skeptical. Especially given that the MD-88 retirements in the east -- not every route will be able to absorb the 739/321.
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 1695
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:46 pm

I believe a few MCO Routes are possible, MCO-GRR, MCO-MCI, MCO-BDL, some of the longer routes that use CR9's but could withstand a larger aircraft. I can also see MLB-DTW or DAB-DTW happening, upgauge JAX-MSP, JAX-DTW from regionals.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
User avatar
deltadawg
Posts: 947
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:56 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:08 pm

tlecam wrote:
I can also see them (eventually) using the 100 to expand RDU / BOS and other non-mega hub airports where DL has a larger than usual presence. It could make routes that would be tough today (say anything into Chicago) more economically viable while serving corporate contract demands.


I would definitely agree that given RDU's recent activity/expansion that the CS100 will end there for some thinner expansion "tests" and expanding service. Some routes I could see coming out of RDU would be:
RDU-MDW
RDU-MSY
RDU-STL
RDU-DFW
RDU-LAS
RDU-SAV
RDU-MCI

Beyond RDU I would expect to see 717 routes out of ATL to be slowly replaced by CS100's such as ATL-GSP/SAV/MYR/JAN/LIT, etc.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
compensateme
Posts: 2146
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:18 pm

deltadawg wrote:
Beyond RDU I would expect to see 717 routes out of ATL to be slowly replaced by CS100's such as ATL-GSP/SAV/MYR/JAN/LIT, etc.


Why would you expect that? ATL sees the lion's share of 717 flying and DL is not retiring the 717. While there will be some overlap, it's pretty clear that DL primarily intends to deploy the CS on longer missions than the short hops you mentioned.
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
dtwpilot225
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:31 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:33 pm

Yes sea-lga was a type, but interesting that the plane could do it with its performance
Delta has said they will shift the 717 to dtw msp and atl while having the c series be a coastal plane. But that could all change tomorrow. If the plane performs like they want it too, you could see 100-150 of these things in every base eventually
I would love to see it in dtw on routes like
Dfw, Iah, ord, tvc, bna, tys, pwm, pvd, jax, yyz, buf, but it appears the 717s and 319s will do that for the foreseeable future
 
dtwpilot225
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:31 am

Re: Delta c series routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:35 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
SEA-LGA? Really?


Yeah... ummm ... I can only assume that was a mistake, doesn't have the authority to pass the perimeter rule...

dtwpilot225 wrote:
I sincerely appologize if this has already been discussed, I have been away from this forum for awhile: I'm looking forward to delta introducing the c series in early 2018x. They are getting 75 but if it performs well we should see a mix of 150 of the 100/300 series so where do you all think it will fly? These are my early predictions for each base . Note that I don't have anything for Atlanta because at least initially Atlanta will be the md88 shut down base and it can handle bigger planes.

Sea-las
Sea-pdx
Sea-anc
Sea-bna
Sea-aus
Sea-slc
Sea-lga

Lga-dfw
Lga-ord
Lga-clt
Lga-stl
Lga-iah
Lga-ind
Lga-jax
Lga-Msy


While I see some of these being spot-on there are some other things to take into consideration.
-LGA-IND
This is a huge MX and crewbase for S5/Republic... They will need to continue to operate on this route to cycle aircraft through their facilities.
-LGA-STL
IIRC this is a large GoJet operation base, somewhat of a survior of the TransStates operations. As above, there is a large crewbase and/was a large amount of RON aircraft there for them there for the DL operation.
-LGA-MSY
is a seasonal market it has seen everything from MD-80s and A319s down to E170s/CR7s. I think it will continue to go see ups and downs due to seasonal demand.
-LGA-DFW/IAH
DFW has a long history of Delta service, IAH has always been a tough sell with UA holding that market with loyal fliers... I always thought that DFW/IAH would be an ideal market with the A319 as the aircraft now have IFE, but it would seem Delta sees that DFW and IAH are better served with Frequency than capacity, with six E170s weekdays to DFW and usually 4-5 to IAH. The front on both are usually full in mornings and evenings, the back is hit and miss. I've learned to just fork over the extra $$ on those routes to sit up front as it's usually full and I have only cleared the upgrade list once or twice (my rule is +2.5 hours block, pay to sit up front)... So, yields are there up front at least. Since the aircraft cycle as a round trip from LGA and it's a 4 hour block each way, in the back one end is usually empty. IF they decide to go with the CS on that route, they would be smart to cycle the aircraft LGA-DFW-HUB and vice versa to make it profitable.

I would not be surprised to see it operating to upstate cities like BUF/SYR/ROC and even BTV and PWM during season and places like LGA-RIC/ORF or even some of the 717 cities like ATL-CHO/EVV/MSN

If the C Series can really hold it's own with it's promises on distance and burn, I think you'll see Delta investigating some more thinner routes and try to stir the market like SLC-RIC as UA's DEN-RIC has surpassed expectations already. It also begs to ask the questions with a limit of perhaps 3k miles... will they be putting IFE screens in? Seems like a smart choice... and of course, what will the seat plan be I assumed something along the idea of F12/Y80, thoughts? More or less seats will dictate which long thin routes they can/can't operate I would assume...

Delta likes frequency in luring business passengers, so I would not surprised at all to see frequency increase from SEA on markets currently served a few times a day with larger aircraft down to the C series with more flights... Think SEA-MKE... which always did well on Midwest could easily go x3 daily with a 100 seat with connections in SEA... just my .02 though

With 75 aircraft coming on board from the CS... it does make one wonder... are some of the regionals going to get the boot?


[edit spelling]

Good post
Very informative
 
flyingfromcvg
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:44 am

Re: Delta c series routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:45 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
Delta likes frequency in luring business passengers, so I would not surprised at all to see frequency increase from SEA on markets currently served a few times a day with larger aircraft down to the C series with more flights... Think SEA-MKE... which always did well on Midwest could easily go x3 daily with a 100 seat with connections in SEA... just my .02 though


My guess is this is what Delta has in mind for the CSeries. Look at longer routes with one frequency on an A320 or 737 and split that into two flights using CS100s. Corporate clients would love that. Using my local CVG as an example, that could be routes like CVG-SFO, CVG-SEA, CVG-PHX, CVG-SLC. I think you could also see some of those longer RJ flights replaced with slightly lower frequency like CVG-DEN and CVG-DFW. Finally, it could reopen some thinner routes with 1x daily like CVG-SAN and CVG-PDX. Delta could really use the CSeries to own the business traffic in small to medium size markets by offering convenience of direct flights. Of course, the CSeries needs to deliver on the economics. But if it does, I think it would be a waste to utilize these from hubs at all. This plane is likely the future of places like RDU, CVG, CMH, MKE and IND rather than becoming a 717 replacement operating from a hub.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4953
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Delta c series routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:51 pm

n7371f wrote:
SEA will be a launch market when the C-Series comes on-line. In fact the order is based partly on SEA being the ideal market for the aircraft. In the most recent BoD briefing, the C-Series was presented as the perfect aircraft to grow SEA.

exactly this. My money is on LA being the second base and the 717 moving back east.

n7371f wrote:
The E7W at OO is more to improve the product on DL Connection out of SEA and along the west coast (from Compass) - and also allow Compass to slowly retreat from the WC. In fact don't be surprised if Compass loses it's DL flying in a few years. CZ is DL's worst performing operator along with GoJet - both owned by TransStates.

Hopefully G7 and CP (CZ is China Southern BTW) are both gone and replaced by more E75s at OO quickly.
I don't understand why this site even has moderators anymore.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 1134
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:54 pm

SBN-JFK connections to international flights and the NYC area is a high demand market from SBN so much so that United's daily E145 flight developed a new O/D market last year of BOS. So if this trend continues maybe SBN-LGA to connect to the BOS shuttle or possibly SBN-BOS.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2622
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:59 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
I personally think that the Basic Economy concept now sweeping America will result in some Y seats being re-pitched to 28-29 inches and permanently offered as Basic Economy.


That won't happen. What if the Basic Economy seat doesn't sell? Then you risk putting a regular economy customer into a lesser product. The goal of these fare types is really to get people to buy up.
A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753/762/763/764/772/789/DC8/DC9-10/30/40/50/MD81/83/87/88/90/L1011-/250/500/CRJ200/440/700/900/EMB135/140/145/170/175/190/328Jet/F70/SF3/BE1/J31
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:01 pm

You need to start out west. These aircraft will be based in LAX and SEA and focused on markets where they are most economically advantageous. Look for lots of Midwest and East Coast market that a 738/320/M90 are a little too big for and E75s are too far for. Along with the usual suspects in the intra-west, I think we will see them in markets like CMH, IND, SDF, PIT, CLE, GRR, RIC, ORF, CLT, CHS, SAV, BHM, MEM, PBI, RSW. YYZ, YUL.

Basically, any market that Delta has a decent presence in that is underserved from LAX/SEA is in play. Look, in particular, for markets where the CS100 has unique operating advantages. This airplane is going to do for domestic U.S. market what the 787 has done for long-haul.
 
msycajun
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:13 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:11 pm

I don't think it's been mentioned, but SLC would be ideal for one of the first bases - tons of routes that are a bit small for mainline, but long for regional aircraft. SLC-MSY which alternates between 319s and CR9s, comes to mind, but there are dozens of similar routes.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 2672
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:13 pm

freakyrat wrote:
SBN-JFK connections to international flights and the NYC area is a high demand market from SBN so much so that United's daily E145 flight developed a new O/D market last year of BOS. So if this trend continues maybe SBN-LGA to connect to the BOS shuttle or possibly SBN-BOS.


Routes like that might be opened up by CRJ7/9s that are freed up by being replaced by CS100 on stuff like NYC-Florida or NYC-Texas. I wouldn't expect the CS100 to be used to open new flights, but rather replace the longer CRJ/175 flights that could use slightly more capacity. Thus allowing the CRJ7/9 to be used to open a few new routes and be used to replace a chunk of the 50 seat fleets, which starts to begin this year with Expressjet parking their CRJ2 fleet, a small portion of it being moved to another carrier and most removed from service.
From my cold, dead hands
 
User avatar
SEAtown
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:21 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:25 pm

SEA-SFO/LAX
"When you go out to battle against your enemies and see horses and chariots and people more numerous than you, do not be afraid of them; for the LORD your God is with you." Deuteronomy 20:1
 
ahj2000
Posts: 868
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:39 pm

I think if they really are going to put the CS1s in SEA first, there is a good chance that they will either go to PDX and GEG to compete with AS first or take over the shuttle between SEA and LAX/SFO
-Andrés Juánez
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5631
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:42 pm

I would think that with introduction being a year out, it is currently fluid. However, I would assume ATL will always be the test bed for new aircraft and then they will rotate out to SEA, LAX, LGA, and P2P? Right???
Aiming High and going far..
 
User avatar
intotheair
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:55 pm

toltommy wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
I personally think that the Basic Economy concept now sweeping America will result in some Y seats being re-pitched to 28-29 inches and permanently offered as Basic Economy.


That won't happen. What if the Basic Economy seat doesn't sell? Then you risk putting a regular economy customer into a lesser product. The goal of these fare types is really to get people to buy up.


Not only that, but going down to 28-29 inch pitch only makes sense as long as you can fit 1-2 additional rows on the plane, and I doubt they could do that in a theoretical F/Y+/Y/Y- layout. I don't see airlines like DL going below 31 inch pitch (or 30) anytime soon. The US3 would only do that if they became massively unprofitable again and if ULCCs rapidly expanded at the same time.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 CR2 CR7 CR9 Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 13224
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:13 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
I would think that with introduction being a year out, it is currently fluid. However, I would assume ATL will always be the test bed for new aircraft and then they will rotate out to SEA, LAX, LGA, and P2P? Right???

Pick one pilot base. It doesn't have to be ATL. If ATL, the priority is MD-80 retirement. But since growth is required for RJ growth... There is no reason SEA couldn't be first. The marketing buzz alone...


DL needs to pick first routes 6+ months out to train and hire accordingly. New routes make a splash in the press, so why not?

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4953
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:37 pm

lightsaber wrote:
ERJ170 wrote:
I would think that with introduction being a year out, it is currently fluid. However, I would assume ATL will always be the test bed for new aircraft and then they will rotate out to SEA, LAX, LGA, and P2P? Right???

Pick one pilot base. It doesn't have to be ATL. If ATL, the priority is MD-80 retirement. But since growth is required for RJ growth... There is no reason SEA couldn't be first. The marketing buzz alone...


DL needs to pick first routes 6+ months out to train and hire accordingly. New routes make a splash in the press, so why not?

Lightsaber

DL doesn't get any RJ growth for the C100. This isn't like UA, DL got its extra RJs with the 717. The scope DALPA gave up in this contract was for International flying. RJs stay the same.
I don't understand why this site even has moderators anymore.
 
JetBlueCLT
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:55 pm

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:43 pm

deltadawg wrote:
tlecam wrote:
I can also see them (eventually) using the 100 to expand RDU / BOS and other non-mega hub airports where DL has a larger than usual presence. It could make routes that would be tough today (say anything into Chicago) more economically viable while serving corporate contract demands.


I would definitely agree that given RDU's recent activity/expansion that the CS100 will end there for some thinner expansion "tests" and expanding service. Some routes I could see coming out of RDU would be:
RDU-MDW
RDU-MSY
RDU-STL
RDU-DFW
RDU-LAS
RDU-SAV
RDU-MCI

Beyond RDU I would expect to see 717 routes out of ATL to be slowly replaced by CS100's such as ATL-GSP/SAV/MYR/JAN/LIT, etc.



Hahaha, RDU-SAV.... I hope your joking about that one.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:06 pm

Wondering if spokes like my home OKC will see the CS100. Would be cool to see another type here. Pretty sure DL flies the 717 here currently so I'd think a good candidate. Definitely ATL-OKC would work in my very uninformed opinion. Additionally if DL keeps expanding SEA, I wonder if they'd introduce SEA-OKC a la AS.
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 682
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Delta c series routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:40 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
exactly this. My money is on LA being the second base and the 717 moving back east.

On what reason do you think that?
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
User avatar
cvgComair
Posts: 1079
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:47 pm

deltadawg wrote:
tlecam wrote:
I can also see them (eventually) using the 100 to expand RDU / BOS and other non-mega hub airports where DL has a larger than usual presence. It could make routes that would be tough today (say anything into Chicago) more economically viable while serving corporate contract demands.


I would definitely agree that given RDU's recent activity/expansion that the CS100 will end there for some thinner expansion "tests" and expanding service. Some routes I could see coming out of RDU would be:
RDU-MDW
RDU-MSY
RDU-STL
RDU-DFW
RDU-LAS
RDU-SAV
RDU-MCI

Beyond RDU I would expect to see 717 routes out of ATL to be slowly replaced by CS100's such as ATL-GSP/SAV/MYR/JAN/LIT, etc.


A "thin" route is not getting a brand new mainline aircraft. All of those routes except LAS would be on a CRJ2/7/9 if they were ever to launch. I highly doubt DL would ever try MDW/SAV, the others are a maybe.

If RDU sees the CSeries, it will be on routes to Florida, Salt Lake City, and Seattle, possibly some other hubs.
Next: CVG-CDG-ATH (Delta Air Lines B767-300ER, Air France A319)
A319/320/332, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, ERJ-145/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
tjerome
Posts: 234
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:41 pm

24Whiskey wrote:
...As far as the B717 goes I've been told it has payload issues as well and I only ever see it in the summer.


It's unusual to have too much payload (have seen it happen recently though), but it's often not enough payload and too nose heavy.

tlecam wrote:
I can also see them (eventually) using the 100 to expand RDU / BOS and other non-mega hub airports where DL has a larger than usual presence. It could make routes that would be tough today (say anything into Chicago) more economically viable while serving corporate contract demands.


I definitely see BOS-RDU becoming a mainline flight soon, although I see the C-series being west coast and 717 being east coast which would make BOS-RDU a 717 route.
The comments and opinions expressed here are my own.
My FlightMemory
 
planespotter20
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:56 pm

ORD-JFK seems to be a possibility. They already utilize a CRJ900 for the route and fly 5 or 4 a day depending on the day of the week. This seems like a logical distance and route for DL to utilize the C Series on.
 
flightsimer
Posts: 967
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:34 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:26 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
I read here on a.net that the first 35 CSeries for Delta are firmed as CS100, the remaining 40 can be either CS100 or CS300 or both as well as the 50 options. So, 35 CS100 are probably easier to find homes for being a small fleet. Can SEA handle 35 aircraft if other types are relocated?

The big question is how DL will configure these birds. I personally think that the Basic Economy concept now sweeping America will result in some Y seats being re-pitched to 28-29 inches and permanently offered as Basic Economy. This will work well on the CSeries as seats are 18/19 inches wide with slimline seats. F and Y+ sections may also see reductions in seat numbers if airlines are stricter with FF upgrades due to increasing restrictions on Y fares. I think the DL CS100 will have at least 113 seats and the CS300 141 seats. Smart-Flex galley/lav combos are also looked at, BBD confirmed a couple years ago.


Delta had already announced that since these will be mainline planes, the seat size in Y will be 31"/18.25". As for where they will fly, anywhere a 717 flies, I suspect a CS100 will fly, and anywhere an MD-88 flies, a CS300 will fly. Delta tends to stick to 31" seat pitch but follow the manufacturer's recommendation on seat width. The CS300 would work great out of ATL or MSP.

Seat width on all Delta narrow bodies are the same from the MD's to the 737's to the 757's and A32x's.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5101
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:46 am

flightsimer wrote:
Seat width on all Delta narrow bodies are the same from the MD's to the 737's to the 757's and A32x's.


Not true.

MD88/737/757- 17.2"
MD90/717- 18.1"
319/320/321- 18" (319/320 is 18" on reconfigured aircraft)

Source:

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/airports-and-aircraft/Aircraft.html
 
flightsimer
Posts: 967
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:34 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:29 am

burnsie28 wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
Seat width on all Delta narrow bodies are the same from the MD's to the 737's to the 757's and A32x's.


Not true.

MD88/737/757- 17.2"
MD90/717- 18.1"
319/320/321- 18" (319/320 is 18" on reconfigured aircraft)

Source:

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/airports-and-aircraft/Aircraft.html

Well then nobody really knows because the onboard information in the IFE fleet page says 17.2 for all narrowbodies.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 3604
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:55 am

My guess would be unless delta sees some odd routes that only this plane can do financially i would expect them to replace MD88 routes primarily

I bet these planes will open up some SLC routes but only after the new terminals go in. New Routes like FLL-SLC or BDL-SLC could probably be profitable with this plane in the main banks. Delta suffers .from too many regional gates and not enough mainline gates in SLC. This was delta absolute priority in a redesign of the airport. I bet we will see c series in SLC for sure once the terminals are up. In the meantime though they probably make the most sense replacing MD88 routes primarily.
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5101
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:44 am

flightsimer wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
Seat width on all Delta narrow bodies are the same from the MD's to the 737's to the 757's and A32x's.


Not true.

MD88/737/757- 17.2"
MD90/717- 18.1"
319/320/321- 18" (319/320 is 18" on reconfigured aircraft)

Source:

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/airports-and-aircraft/Aircraft.html

Well then nobody really knows because the onboard information in the IFE fleet page says 17.2 for all narrowbodies.


I'm actually on a plane now and pulled it up, 717 is showing 18.1" and the 319/320 are only showing pre-reconfigured maps.
 
flightsimer
Posts: 967
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:34 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:44 pm

burnsie28 wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:

Not true.

MD88/737/757- 17.2"
MD90/717- 18.1"
319/320/321- 18" (319/320 is 18" on reconfigured aircraft)

Source:

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/airports-and-aircraft/Aircraft.html

Well then nobody really knows because the onboard information in the IFE fleet page says 17.2 for all narrowbodies.


I'm actually on a plane now and pulled it up, 717 is showing 18.1" and the 319/320 are only showing pre-reconfigured maps.

Must have changed it then. I was on a 757W in First back in Jan 16 and it showed them all the same which surprised me, so I know for sure at one point it did.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
n7371f
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Delta c series routes

Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:44 am

deltal1011man wrote:
n7371f wrote:
SEA will be a launch market when the C-Series comes on-line. In fact the order is based partly on SEA being the ideal market for the aircraft. In the most recent BoD briefing, the C-Series was presented as the perfect aircraft to grow SEA.

exactly this. My money is on LA being the second base and the 717 moving back east.

n7371f wrote:
The E7W at OO is more to improve the product on DL Connection out of SEA and along the west coast (from Compass) - and also allow Compass to slowly retreat from the WC. In fact don't be surprised if Compass loses it's DL flying in a few years. CZ is DL's worst performing operator along with GoJet - both owned by TransStates.

Hopefully G7 and CP (CZ is China Southern BTW) are both gone and replaced by more E75s at OO quickly.


Yes, thanks, on CZ. Being from SEA & GEG CZ is still Cascade to me and got the tail registrations CZ incorrectly tied to CP.

I know that DL continues to be unhappy with CP. The E70's are heading to Republic right now. The E75's might be next?
 
cessna2
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:16 am

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:13 am

The 717's will head back east centered around ATL and NYC. The initial base will be SEA as the order for these aircraft was approved by the BoD specifically to grow SEA.
 
FSDan
Posts: 1416
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:54 pm

dtwpilot225 wrote:
Delta has said they will shift the 717 to dtw msp and atl while having the c series be a coastal plane.


I've definitely heard plenty about DL sending the CSeries to SEA/LAX/SLC, but I don't remember hearing about NYC. What is the source for that?

I'll be looking forward to seeing an increase in 717 flying from DTW and MSP!
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 2672
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Delta c series routes

Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:05 pm

n7371f wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
n7371f wrote:
SEA will be a launch market when the C-Series comes on-line. In fact the order is based partly on SEA being the ideal market for the aircraft. In the most recent BoD briefing, the C-Series was presented as the perfect aircraft to grow SEA.

exactly this. My money is on LA being the second base and the 717 moving back east.

n7371f wrote:
The E7W at OO is more to improve the product on DL Connection out of SEA and along the west coast (from Compass) - and also allow Compass to slowly retreat from the WC. In fact don't be surprised if Compass loses it's DL flying in a few years. CZ is DL's worst performing operator along with GoJet - both owned by TransStates.

Hopefully G7 and CP (CZ is China Southern BTW) are both gone and replaced by more E75s at OO quickly.


Yes, thanks, on CZ. Being from SEA & GEG CZ is still Cascade to me and got the tail registrations CZ incorrectly tied to CP.

I know that DL continues to be unhappy with CP. The E70's are heading to Republic right now. The E75's might be next?


The Compass 175 contract runs through 2020, IIRC. Sure, they could take the penalty and cancel it early, but the CP numbers right now aren't near as bad as G7 was last year this time, and they didn't cancel that contract. Once it's up, you can probably expect DL to move the planes somewhere, but who knows where that ends up being.
From my cold, dead hands
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4953
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Delta c series routes

Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:16 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
n7371f wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:

exactly this. My money is on LA being the second base and the 717 moving back east.


Hopefully G7 and CP (CZ is China Southern BTW) are both gone and replaced by more E75s at OO quickly.


Yes, thanks, on CZ. Being from SEA & GEG CZ is still Cascade to me and got the tail registrations CZ incorrectly tied to CP.

I know that DL continues to be unhappy with CP. The E70's are heading to Republic right now. The E75's might be next?


The Compass 175 contract runs through 2020, IIRC. Sure, they could take the penalty and cancel it early, but the CP numbers right now aren't near as bad as G7 was last year this time, and they didn't cancel that contract. Once it's up, you can probably expect DL to move the planes somewhere, but who knows where that ends up being.

The issue with the CP E75s is that they are higher MTOW than the rest of the 76 seater fleet and Compass is specify mentioned as the only carrier who can operate them in the DL pilots contract, IIRC.
I don't understand why this site even has moderators anymore.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 7358
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Delta c series routes

Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:19 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
The issue with the CP E75s is that they are higher MTOW than the rest of the 76 seater fleet and Compass is specify mentioned as the only carrier who can operate them in the DL pilots contract, IIRC.

Just out of curiosity was is it that only CP can fly them? Is it a legacy of Compass being formerly owned by DL?
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 2672
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Delta c series routes

Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:47 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
n7371f wrote:

Yes, thanks, on CZ. Being from SEA & GEG CZ is still Cascade to me and got the tail registrations CZ incorrectly tied to CP.

I know that DL continues to be unhappy with CP. The E70's are heading to Republic right now. The E75's might be next?


The Compass 175 contract runs through 2020, IIRC. Sure, they could take the penalty and cancel it early, but the CP numbers right now aren't near as bad as G7 was last year this time, and they didn't cancel that contract. Once it's up, you can probably expect DL to move the planes somewhere, but who knows where that ends up being.

The issue with the CP E75s is that they are higher MTOW than the rest of the 76 seater fleet and Compass is specify mentioned as the only carrier who can operate them in the DL pilots contract, IIRC.


And as Delta pilots have proven time and time again. Throw a little bit of money at them, and they'll give away whatever the company wants from them. There used to be a clause that didn't allow a regional who flew for Delta to operate airplanes of greater than 76 seats on their certificate, but here we are, with Shuttle America gone, and it all being Republic, that it is now happening...
From my cold, dead hands
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4953
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Delta c series routes

Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:56 pm

Polot wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
The issue with the CP E75s is that they are higher MTOW than the rest of the 76 seater fleet and Compass is specify mentioned as the only carrier who can operate them in the DL pilots contract, IIRC.

Just out of curiosity was is it that only CP can fly them? Is it a legacy of Compass being formerly owned by DL?


legacy of the PMNW contract.

NW's pilots allowed CP to get the higher MTOW E75s and it carried over in the JCBA.
DiamondFlyer wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

The Compass 175 contract runs through 2020, IIRC. Sure, they could take the penalty and cancel it early, but the CP numbers right now aren't near as bad as G7 was last year this time, and they didn't cancel that contract. Once it's up, you can probably expect DL to move the planes somewhere, but who knows where that ends up being.

The issue with the CP E75s is that they are higher MTOW than the rest of the 76 seater fleet and Compass is specify mentioned as the only carrier who can operate them in the DL pilots contract, IIRC.


And as Delta pilots have proven time and time again. Throw a little bit of money at them, and they'll give away whatever the company wants from them. There used to be a clause that didn't allow a regional who flew for Delta to operate airplanes of greater than 76 seats on their certificate, but here we are, with Shuttle America gone, and it all being Republic, that it is now happening...

true points....
I don't understand why this site even has moderators anymore.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 720
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Potential Delta CSeries Routes

Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:25 pm

jetlanta wrote:
You need to start out west. These aircraft will be based in LAX and SEA and focused on markets where they are most economically advantageous. Look for lots of Midwest and East Coast market that a 738/320/M90 are a little too big for and E75s are too far for. Along with the usual suspects in the intra-west, I think we will see them in markets like CMH, IND, SDF, PIT, CLE, GRR, RIC, ORF, CLT, CHS, SAV, BHM, MEM, PBI, RSW. YYZ, YUL.

Basically, any market that Delta has a decent presence in that is underserved from LAX/SEA is in play. Look, in particular, for markets where the CS100 has unique operating advantages. This airplane is going to do for domestic U.increasS. market what the 787 has done for long-haul.


Would DL downsize the 737 on the MEM/LAX route and increase frequency to increase over capacity on that route to head off someone like AA from adding it?

MEM/ SEA would be a win for the MEM folks, use a single tube for MEM/LAX/SEA routing?
 
flightsimer
Posts: 967
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:34 am

Re: Delta c series routes

Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:04 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

The Compass 175 contract runs through 2020, IIRC. Sure, they could take the penalty and cancel it early, but the CP numbers right now aren't near as bad as G7 was last year this time, and they didn't cancel that contract. Once it's up, you can probably expect DL to move the planes somewhere, but who knows where that ends up being.

The issue with the CP E75s is that they are higher MTOW than the rest of the 76 seater fleet and Compass is specify mentioned as the only carrier who can operate them in the DL pilots contract, IIRC.


And as Delta pilots have proven time and time again. Throw a little bit of money at them, and they'll give away whatever the company wants from them. There used to be a clause that didn't allow a regional who flew for Delta to operate airplanes of greater than 76 seats on their certificate, but here we are, with Shuttle America gone, and it all being Republic, that it is now happening...

On the contrary to what you think you know... Delta still has the toughest scope clause. 76 seats and under 80-some thousand pounds, that will probably never change. The only thing sold out in recent times is number of aircraft allowed at the regionals in exchange for a new small narrow body at delta.

It was announced last year that when American and Republic announced the new amended contract that American was paying to have all of the 80 seats 175's reconfigured. All planes had the last row of 4 seats removed to be in compliance with the 76 seat limit PRIOR to SOC. These planes all have USAirways interiors in them so I would think eventually they will get an all new AA interior, probably at a heavy check. If they don't then they will reconfigure the current seat's density.
Commercial / Airline Pilot

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos