klm617
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 5:01 pm

For all of you that are dreaming of a ME3 carrier or Turkish landing in Detroit it isn't going to happen the WCAA let that window of opportunity slip by and Delta is breathing a sigh of relief. So get used to booking your double connects with B6 over FLL and BOS if you want to fly EK to India.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6360
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 7:39 pm

DL always flies a holiday week schedule when 4th of July falls mid-week. There is almost no business travel that week, across all industries, not just auto. Its not just a Detroit thing.
They cut frequency out on business-travel heavy routes and fly more like a Saturday schedule all week, with some selective increases in leisure-oriented markets.

This happens every year.
I believe in some years, they didn't fly anything but hub routes out of markets like RDU, CVG, MEM when they all have/had a significant amount of point-to-point/non-hub flying.
 
compensateme
Posts: 1998
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 8:27 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
DL always flies a holiday week schedule when 4th of July falls mid-week. There is almost no business travel that week, across all industries, not just auto. Its not just a Detroit thing.
They cut frequency out on business-travel heavy routes and fly more like a Saturday schedule all week, with some selective increases in leisure-oriented markets.

This happens every year.
I believe in some years, they didn't fly anything but hub routes out of markets like RDU, CVG, MEM when they all have/had a significant amount of point-to-point/non-hub flying.


DL had long planned reduced flying over the first week of July, but the latest cuts deepens them. I haven't "explored" how the cuts compare to other hubs or last year (and quite honestly, probably won't), I'm just pointing them out.

As I've mentioned many times before, every single year DL is getting aggressive in updating its schedules closer to the departure date. Last week I booked some flights the first week of July and the equipment was downgauged from MD-88 both ways to the CR9; if I would've known that, I would've opted for similarly timed flights on NK (and saved some money). I realize I could request a refund, but unfortunately the NK fare is gone. Just my pet peeve...
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
KarlB737
Posts: 2643
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue May 16, 2017 1:56 am

alfa164 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
A 2017 version of the defunct Pro-Air has resurfaced as a new proposed airline to be based out of DET utilizing Avro-RJ100's.
Metropolitan Airways. That is an ambitious plan!


Many of you may have missed here what I missed at first. Look at the website of the airline under Metro Fleet then select Proposed Routing. Here is a link to that:

http://metroairways.net/proposed-routing/

Scroll down just a little and note 3 maps showing what I would call 3 distinct hubs. This tells me that this is not just a ProAir replacement. It would appear that DET is a very small sliver of a bigger plan. I am not saying that they can pull this off with all the competition however I like the general concept of inserting a few business type flights at DET.

Also it would appear at this point that they probably have just one aircraft if they have that. Possibly the chosen aircraft hasn't been acquired yet but who knows. It will be interesting to see how this pans out in the next year. Frankly I hope for that area of Detroit I hope they do well as a small business accessory to DTW.
 
Puissance
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue May 16, 2017 2:12 am

klm617 wrote:
For all of you that are dreaming of a ME3 carrier or Turkish landing in Detroit it isn't going to happen the WCAA let that window of opportunity slip by and Delta is breathing a sigh of relief. So get used to booking your double connects with B6 over FLL and BOS if you want to fly EK to India.


I just booked my double connect on Turkish/B6 to STR. It was actually a decent price- $995 for the end of June.
 
klm617
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 19, 2017 12:20 am

In the latest Southwest Airlines schedule release DTW-LAS goes from once daily to once weekly.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 19, 2017 12:22 am

Puissance wrote:
klm617 wrote:
For all of you that are dreaming of a ME3 carrier or Turkish landing in Detroit it isn't going to happen the WCAA let that window of opportunity slip by and Delta is breathing a sigh of relief. So get used to booking your double connects with B6 over FLL and BOS if you want to fly EK to India.


I just booked my double connect on Turkish/B6 to STR. It was actually a decent price- $995 for the end of June.



I agree it's a very good price but it's a shame you have to double your flight time to get that price.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
flymco753
Posts: 909
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 19, 2017 12:38 am

klm617 wrote:
In the latest Southwest Airlines schedule release DTW-LAS goes from once daily to once weekly.
Southwest in my opinion is a shame to DTW, they cut all FL routes, and brought back a winter seasonal once weekly and Saturday MCO that lasts until the first week of April which IMHO is pathetic. I really think WN's service that is offered at DTW is pathetic in general, so they basically gave F9 a one way ticket to a perfectly successful route as well as access to the third largest domestic market for O&D behind NYC (HPN, EWR, LGA, JFK) and MCO, and it can most definitely be operated on an A320 for F9.
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
Taco2sDay
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:27 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 19, 2017 1:36 am

flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
In the latest Southwest Airlines schedule release DTW-LAS goes from once daily to once weekly.
Southwest in my opinion is a shame to DTW, they cut all FL routes, and brought back a winter seasonal once weekly and Saturday MCO that lasts until the first week of April which IMHO is pathetic. I really think WN's service that is offered at DTW is pathetic in general, so they basically gave F9 a one way ticket to a perfectly successful route as well as access to the third largest domestic market for O&D behind NYC (HPN, EWR, LGA, JFK) and MCO, and it can most definitely be operated on an A320 for F9.


WN is a shame to DTW, DL hates DTW. BA/LO/KE/KL/JL/NH/ME3 all have it in their mission statement to punish DTW. Those poor people that don't have hubs anymore would kill to have 50% of what DTW has.

Please face reality, DTW is not NYC, LA, CHI, DFW, HOU, DC, MIA, etc. DTW is not the worlds greatest hub. It has more than most would be happy with. Maybe you'll get your wish and DL will de-hub in favor of MSP. Than what do you have, CLE part 2?

This poor DTW thread has run its course.
 
flymco753
Posts: 909
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 19, 2017 3:40 am

Taco2sDay wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
In the latest Southwest Airlines schedule release DTW-LAS goes from once daily to once weekly.
Southwest in my opinion is a shame to DTW, they cut all FL routes, and brought back a winter seasonal once weekly and Saturday MCO that lasts until the first week of April which IMHO is pathetic. I really think WN's service that is offered at DTW is pathetic in general, so they basically gave F9 a one way ticket to a perfectly successful route as well as access to the third largest domestic market for O&D behind NYC (HPN, EWR, LGA, JFK) and MCO, and it can most definitely be operated on an A320 for F9.


WN is a shame to DTW, DL hates DTW. BA/LO/KE/KL/JL/NH/ME3 all have it in their mission statement to punish DTW. Those poor people that don't have hubs anymore would kill to have 50% of what DTW has.

Please face reality, DTW is not NYC, LA, CHI, DFW, HOU, DC, MIA, etc. DTW is not the worlds greatest hub. It has more than most would be happy with. Maybe you'll get your wish and DL will de-hub in favor of MSP. Than what do you have, CLE part 2?

This poor DTW thread has run its course.
:roll: Than why come here? Don't post here if you don't want to see it, simple.
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
alfa164
Posts: 1828
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 19, 2017 4:56 am

flymco753 wrote:
Taco2sDay wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Southwest in my opinion is a shame to DTW, they cut all FL routes, and brought back a winter seasonal once weekly and Saturday MCO that lasts until the first week of April which IMHO is pathetic. I really think WN's service that is offered at DTW is pathetic in general, so they basically gave F9 a one way ticket to a perfectly successful route as well as access to the third largest domestic market for O&D behind NYC (HPN, EWR, LGA, JFK) and MCO, and it can most definitely be operated on an A320 for F9.

WN is a shame to DTW, DL hates DTW. BA/LO/KE/KL/JL/NH/ME3 all have it in their mission statement to punish DTW. Those poor people that don't have hubs anymore would kill to have 50% of what DTW has.
Please face reality, DTW is not NYC, LA, CHI, DFW, HOU, DC, MIA, etc. DTW is not the worlds greatest hub. It has more than most would be happy with. Maybe you'll get your wish and DL will de-hub in favor of MSP. Than what do you have, CLE part 2?
This poor DTW thread has run its course.
:roll: Than why come here? Don't post here if you don't want to see it, simple.


Some people come here because - between the inevitable whining, crying, and gnashing of teeth from some conspiracy fabricator - we hope to glean at least a few facts about an airport that is an important (albeit not the most important... sorry) hub in the USA. It would be... could be... and interesting subject... were it not for the distraction of someone's/something's personal neurosis... :roll:

And if you don't want to see someone else's honest opinion - as opposed to a conspiracy theory - maybe don't need to post here, either.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 19, 2017 5:08 am

KarlB737 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
A 2017 version of the defunct Pro-Air has resurfaced as a new proposed airline to be based out of DET utilizing Avro-RJ100's.
Metropolitan Airways. That is an ambitious plan!


Many of you may have missed here what I missed at first. Look at the website of the airline under Metro Fleet then select Proposed Routing. Here is a link to that:

http://metroairways.net/proposed-routing/

Scroll down just a little and note 3 maps showing what I would call 3 distinct hubs. This tells me that this is not just a ProAir replacement. It would appear that DET is a very small sliver of a bigger plan. I am not saying that they can pull this off with all the competition however I like the general concept of inserting a few business type flights at DET.

Also it would appear at this point that they probably have just one aircraft if they have that. Possibly the chosen aircraft hasn't been acquired yet but who knows. It will be interesting to see how this pans out in the next year. Frankly I hope for that area of Detroit I hope they do well as a small business accessory to DTW.


Their website looks like the work of someone with a lot of time on their hands. I give this zero chance of ever getting off the ground. I do like the pic of the Alaska Airlines seat and famous fruit and cheese platter in the food and beverage section. They don't even really try to hide the Alaska Airlines name.
 
iFlyDTW
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 19, 2017 10:08 pm

alfa164 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Taco2sDay wrote:
WN is a shame to DTW, DL hates DTW. BA/LO/KE/KL/JL/NH/ME3 all have it in their mission statement to punish DTW. Those poor people that don't have hubs anymore would kill to have 50% of what DTW has.
Please face reality, DTW is not NYC, LA, CHI, DFW, HOU, DC, MIA, etc. DTW is not the worlds greatest hub. It has more than most would be happy with. Maybe you'll get your wish and DL will de-hub in favor of MSP. Than what do you have, CLE part 2?
This poor DTW thread has run its course.
:roll: Than why come here? Don't post here if you don't want to see it, simple.


Some people come here because - between the inevitable whining, crying, and gnashing of teeth from some conspiracy fabricator - we hope to glean at least a few facts about an airport that is an important (albeit not the most important... sorry) hub in the USA. It would be... could be... and interesting subject... were it not for the distraction of someone's/something's personal neurosis... :roll:

And if you don't want to see someone else's honest opinion - as opposed to a conspiracy theory - maybe don't need to post here, either.
Ive tried telling this user that, they dont know about the DTW market, the certainly dont know much about DTW, and theyre kind of the peanut gallery in this forum who thinks they know but really dont just because they probably know people here and live 1000 miles away. :roll:
Home of the "Bare Fare" /// Banana Plane Republic
 
klm617
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 19, 2017 10:25 pm

alfa164 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Taco2sDay wrote:
WN is a shame to DTW, DL hates DTW. BA/LO/KE/KL/JL/NH/ME3 all have it in their mission statement to punish DTW. Those poor people that don't have hubs anymore would kill to have 50% of what DTW has.
Please face reality, DTW is not NYC, LA, CHI, DFW, HOU, DC, MIA, etc. DTW is not the worlds greatest hub. It has more than most would be happy with. Maybe you'll get your wish and DL will de-hub in favor of MSP. Than what do you have, CLE part 2?
This poor DTW thread has run its course.
:roll: Than why come here? Don't post here if you don't want to see it, simple.


Some people come here because - between the inevitable whining, crying, and gnashing of teeth from some conspiracy fabricator - we hope to glean at least a few facts about an airport that is an important (albeit not the most important... sorry) hub in the USA. It would be... could be... and interesting subject... were it not for the distraction of someone's/something's personal neurosis... :roll:

And if you don't want to see someone else's honest opinion - as opposed to a conspiracy theory - maybe don't need to post here, either.



Not to mention the people who claim to be in the know and spread the corporate propaganda of the entities that sign their paycheck every week who are offended by the opposing point of view of the customer who is tired of being treated just as a number as if their custom has no value to them other than the fact that they have a wallet in their pocket.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
reasonable
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:27 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 20, 2017 2:19 am

You can tell Metropolitan Airways has no chance simply from the shitty graphic design and rambling, grammar-challenged statement on the homepage: http://metroairways.net/
...it could be that klm is trying to start an airline with a little boy's fantasy route map, or maybe it's just a hobby site.



I remember seeing a route map published by Porter a while ago (either from an investor deck or their in-flight magazine) that listed DTW as a future destination (demarcated by a dashed line).
 
globalcabotage
Posts: 365
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:42 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 20, 2017 3:27 am

klm617 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
:roll: Than why come here? Don't post here if you don't want to see it, simple.


Some people come here because - between the inevitable whining, crying, and gnashing of teeth from some conspiracy fabricator - we hope to glean at least a few facts about an airport that is an important (albeit not the most important... sorry) hub in the USA. It would be... could be... and interesting subject... were it not for the distraction of someone's/something's personal neurosis... :roll:

And if you don't want to see someone else's honest opinion - as opposed to a conspiracy theory - maybe don't need to post here, either.



Not to mention the people who claim to be in the know and spread the corporate propaganda of the entities that sign their paycheck every week who are offended by the opposing point of view of the customer who is tired of being treated just as a number as if their custom has no value to them other than the fact that they have a wallet in their pocket.


We come here to return the favor of all the DTW alum hijacking every thread out there. Please don't make a TPA-HAV a resolution in DTW.
 
iFlyDTW
Posts: 214
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 21, 2017 1:24 am

Here's a quick look at what this summer will be like and I used Friday July 14th.
Aeromexico (including Aeromexico Connect): 2
Air Canada Express: 4
Air France: 1
Alaska: 2
American (including American Eagle): 37
Frontier: 3
Jetblue: 4
Lufthansa: 1
Royal Jordanian: 1
Southwest: 21
Spirit: 27
United (including United Express): 25
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11725Flyer
Posts: 656
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 21, 2017 1:45 am

klm617 wrote:

Not to mention the people who claim to be in the know and spread the corporate propaganda of the entities that sign their paycheck every week who are offended by the opposing point of view of the customer who is tired of being treated just as a number as if their custom has no value to them other than the fact that they have a wallet in their pocket.


My paycheck comes from an educational institution. What amazse me about you is that whenever you're presented with facts that refute your fantasies, you never respond.
 
iFlyDTW
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 21, 2017 1:46 am

Hows DTW doing going into halfway through 2017? I think the airport is progressing along fairly well. Heres some notes I made,,,

I do think- NK might add another destination before years end, Delta will continue to reduce frequency while increasing seats, Aeromexico will withdrawal one of their routes, Volaris will announce GDL or MEX, and DL will shift FCO to BOS.

I don't think- LOT will even move an inch where things are now, AA will add LAX since they seem to have no interest at this time or space available for a perfectly timed flight, WOW will announce DTW since they will have ORD and YYZ (I suspect YQG, FNT even CLE or GRR would be a better option for them anyway), DL will add SJC, SMF, ELP, ABQ or TUS since these are all unrealistic markets and are better served from MSP and SLC even LAX and SEA, DL will fly many A321s at DTW, and WN will keep LAS.

I think adds are pretty much over for DTW this year and the beginning of the next, with maybe the exception of an NK route and the announcement of Volaris, there's just no reason for any other services right now, all markets are sufficiently filled at the moment and I think DTW is doing fine.
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thedetroitpole
Posts: 186
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 21, 2017 1:54 am

I just purchased my flight from Detroit to Warsaw on Lufthansa via Frankfurt, it will be aboard the Queen herself, the Boeing 747-400. I really would like to know, how LOT could potentially become interested in Detroit. I am interested in learning, how it could possibly be feasible, because, of course, simply saying people transit to Chicago and Toronto to utilize LOT is not as factual as a company that could potentially land a contract. My friends set up a yearly trip and take about 10 others with them in the Polish Community and they utilize LOT, but obviously I can not prove that since it is a statement and not a fact.
 
iFlyDTW
Posts: 214
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed May 24, 2017 2:11 pm

Does anyone have the PDEW between DTW and BCN? I'm trying to figure out if Delta can make a nonstop work, I think that's one of the few routes they can do on a 757 and make a profit. Where's flymco753 when you need him to do the math?
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flymco753
Posts: 909
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed May 24, 2017 3:37 pm

iFlyDTW wrote:
Does anyone have the PDEW between DTW and BCN? I'm trying to figure out if Delta can make a nonstop work, I think that's one of the few routes they can do on a 757 and make a profit. Where's flymco753 when you need him to do the math?
In 2016 one way to BCN was 9364. A DL 76W has 208 seats, it would be assumed the route would initially run from May 1 to Sep 30. In that timeframe it would be 31,616 seats one way to BCN. That would mean the plane would be only 29.61% O&D from DTW. In that case, I wouldn't be comfortable adding this route.

A 75S has 168 seats. Same timeframe, 25,535 seats. It's an increase to 36.6% local passengers but I still would not convinced this route will make money, even if some of the bleeding stops to ORD and YYZ.

Either way you'd have to have well over 50% of the plane being connecting passengers and that's probably hard to do so it wouldn't make sense for DL to add BCN from DTW on any plane and make it economical.
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
Puissance
Posts: 10
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed May 24, 2017 8:21 pm

Speaking of O&D, there was an interesting slide on the recent Air France Investor Day presentation discussed on another thread. It spoke about the JV between DL,KL,and AF and how they wanted to increase hub to hub traffic. They defined this as ATL,MSP and DTW to CDG and AMS. The slide stated that last year there were three million passengers on those routes, and only about 300,000 (or 10%) were O&D passengers to and from the hubs.
 
klm617
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu May 25, 2017 12:21 am

Puissance wrote:
Speaking of O&D, there was an interesting slide on the recent Air France Investor Day presentation discussed on another thread. It spoke about the JV between DL,KL,and AF and how they wanted to increase hub to hub traffic. They defined this as ATL,MSP and DTW to CDG and AMS. The slide stated that last year there were three million passengers on those routes, and only about 300,000 (or 10%) were O&D passengers to and from the hubs.



Gives us hope that we may see KLM in this market yet :-)
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
ASQ400
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu May 25, 2017 12:26 am

klm617 wrote:
Puissance wrote:
Speaking of O&D, there was an interesting slide on the recent Air France Investor Day presentation discussed on another thread. It spoke about the JV between DL,KL,and AF and how they wanted to increase hub to hub traffic. They defined this as ATL,MSP and DTW to CDG and AMS. The slide stated that last year there were three million passengers on those routes, and only about 300,000 (or 10%) were O&D passengers to and from the hubs.



Gives us hope that we may see KLM in this market yet :-)

And the only reason you want old KL metal and not old DL metal is because KL is part of the magical NW bubble you seem to live in
 
klm617
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu May 25, 2017 4:32 pm

ASQ400 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Puissance wrote:
Speaking of O&D, there was an interesting slide on the recent Air France Investor Day presentation discussed on another thread. It spoke about the JV between DL,KL,and AF and how they wanted to increase hub to hub traffic. They defined this as ATL,MSP and DTW to CDG and AMS. The slide stated that last year there were three million passengers on those routes, and only about 300,000 (or 10%) were O&D passengers to and from the hubs.



Gives us hope that we may see KLM in this market yet :-)

And the only reason you want old KL metal and not old DL metal is because KL is part of the magical NW bubble you seem to live in


No because KLM service all around is way better than Delta. Deal with KLM cabin crew and service agents and you will see the difference.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
ASQ400
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu May 25, 2017 5:10 pm

klm617 wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
klm617 wrote:


Gives us hope that we may see KLM in this market yet :-)

And the only reason you want old KL metal and not old DL metal is because KL is part of the magical NW bubble you seem to live in


No because KLM service all around is way better than Delta. Deal with KLM cabin crew and service agents and you will see the difference.

I haven't really been impressed that KLM service is better than DL, setting aside the fact that Europeans have better airplane food.
In any case, the JV is more about serving more markets than giving fanboys a climax
 
klm617
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 26, 2017 12:10 am

ASQ400 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
And the only reason you want old KL metal and not old DL metal is because KL is part of the magical NW bubble you seem to live in


No because KLM service all around is way better than Delta. Deal with KLM cabin crew and service agents and you will see the difference.

I haven't really been impressed that KLM service is better than DL, setting aside the fact that Europeans have better airplane food.
In any case, the JV is more about serving more markets than giving fanboys a climax



My experience has always been way better than those on the US airlines.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
ASQ400
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 26, 2017 12:14 am

klm617 wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

No because KLM service all around is way better than Delta. Deal with KLM cabin crew and service agents and you will see the difference.

I haven't really been impressed that KLM service is better than DL, setting aside the fact that Europeans have better airplane food.
In any case, the JV is more about serving more markets than giving fanboys a climax



My experience has always been way better than those on the US airlines.

Through the heavily-tinted lens of your severe anti-DL bias.
Even if KLM service is that much better, it doesn't make sense for them to service DTW. Thanks to AF management trying to create a magic LCC, KLM isn't expanding its LH fleet, so they'll keep serving places like SFO and ORD, while letting DL service AMS from low-O&D hubs like Detroit
 
iFlyDTW
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 26, 2017 12:54 am

ASQ400 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
I haven't really been impressed that KLM service is better than DL, setting aside the fact that Europeans have better airplane food.
In any case, the JV is more about serving more markets than giving fanboys a climax



My experience has always been way better than those on the US airlines.

Through the heavily-tinted lens of your severe anti-DL bias.
Even if KLM service is that much better, it doesn't make sense for them to service DTW. Thanks to AF management trying to create a magic LCC, KLM isn't expanding its LH fleet, so they'll keep serving places like SFO and ORD, while letting DL service AMS from low-O&D hubs like Detroit
This thread was once ruled by another user but now there's a maniac taking it over. Probably has no clue about DTW or its markets and is collaborating with a user with the same goal to assume everyone who talks DTW is made garbage on these threads. :roll:
Home of the "Bare Fare" /// Banana Plane Republic
 
ASQ400
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 26, 2017 1:15 am

iFlyDTW wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
klm617 wrote:


My experience has always been way better than those on the US airlines.

Through the heavily-tinted lens of your severe anti-DL bias.
Even if KLM service is that much better, it doesn't make sense for them to service DTW. Thanks to AF management trying to create a magic LCC, KLM isn't expanding its LH fleet, so they'll keep serving places like SFO and ORD, while letting DL service AMS from low-O&D hubs like Detroit
This thread was once ruled by another user but now there's a maniac taking it over. Probably has no clue about DTW or its markets and is collaborating with a user with the same goal to assume everyone who talks DTW is made garbage on these threads. :roll:

A good amount of DTW users on a.net are idiots.
Detroit itself does suffer from blight, and hasn't recovered from all the outsourcing.
 
iFlyDTW
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 12:33 pm

I haven't thought of this but what if YQG gets WOW or DY? Could that be bad?
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flymco753
Posts: 909
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 12:36 pm

iFlyDTW wrote:
I haven't thought of this but what if YQG gets WOW or DY? Could that be bad?
Essentially, yes it could be bad. 2 things could happen;

1. WW of DY is so unsuccessful and would completely end the route.

2. WW or DY is so successful that the competitor airline sees an advantage and both airlines service that airport.
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
thedetroitpole
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:54 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 1:55 pm

My cousin, has recently flew from London to Detroit on Delta and explained to me how his trip went. He told me that even a 767-300 was fairly empty for a Monday. While the Detroit region has plenty of ties with London, what could be causing people to choose alternative travel options? It does not look promising for another airline if they wished to start service, unless of course, they sign a decent contract with a company in the area. It is not just autos that connects Detroit with the UK, it is other companies as well, for example; Froude Hoffman Inc., Trico Products, and Vero International to name a few. Perhaps, British Airways could offer more connectivity to other parts of the United Kingdom that would make for an easier connection and shorter travel time, instead of transiting via Amsterdam or Paris?
 
kavok
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 3:44 pm

thedetroitpole wrote:
My cousin, has recently flew from London to Detroit on Delta and explained to me how his trip went. He told me that even a 767-300 was fairly empty for a Monday. While the Detroit region has plenty of ties with London, what could be causing people to choose alternative travel options? It does not look promising for another airline if they wished to start service, unless of course, they sign a decent contract with a company in the area. It is not just autos that connects Detroit with the UK, it is other companies as well, for example; Froude Hoffman Inc., Trico Products, and Vero International to name a few. Perhaps, British Airways could offer more connectivity to other parts of the United Kingdom that would make for an easier connection and shorter travel time, instead of transiting via Amsterdam or Paris?


One word: cost.

Compare how much it costs to fly LHR-DTW with most other LHR-USA flights. There is your answer.
 
User avatar
cvgComair
Posts: 578
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 3:45 pm

thedetroitpole wrote:
My cousin, has recently flew from London to Detroit on Delta and explained to me how his trip went. He told me that even a 767-300 was fairly empty for a Monday. While the Detroit region has plenty of ties with London, what could be causing people to choose alternative travel options? It does not look promising for another airline if they wished to start service, unless of course, they sign a decent contract with a company in the area. It is not just autos that connects Detroit with the UK, it is other companies as well, for example; Froude Hoffman Inc., Trico Products, and Vero International to name a few. Perhaps, British Airways could offer more connectivity to other parts of the United Kingdom that would make for an easier connection and shorter travel time, instead of transiting via Amsterdam or Paris?


It is just not a DTW, DL's LHR flights have quite low load factors across the system. It is far from the worst, here is the data from November 2016 (65% loads overall):

City, Seats, Load
ATL, 13919, 78%
JFK, 17225, 73%
MSP, 5876, 73%
DTW, 5459, 56%
BOS, 5690, 55%
SEA, 5878, 52%
SLC, 3569, 45%
PHL, 4592, 35%

AI have noticed that DTW-LHR leaves much earlier than the LHR flight from other DL hubs, could this have something to do with it? Besides DTW pax having to leave earlier for the flight, connecting passengers would be leaving their origin much earlier as well.

DTW: 5:35 PM
MSP: 10:00 PM
SLC: 8:28 PM
ATL: 5:50 PM, 8:23 PM, 9:33 PM
JFK: 7:30 PM, 8:30 PM, 10:30 PM
BOS: 7:16 PM
Next: CVG-BOS-CVG, Delta Air Lines
A319/320/332/333, B1900D, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, DC-9, ERJ-135/40/45/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
fsafsx
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:02 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 10:41 pm

Why do you people think British is going to return to DTW? What is wrong with your heads? If London isn't successful, they're got going to buy into it!!! Stop making assumptions that British would be good for this market when it's clearly not!!!
 
ASQ400
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 10:45 pm

fsafsx wrote:
Why do you people think British is going to return to DTW? What is wrong with your heads? If London isn't successful, they're got going to buy into it!!! Stop making assumptions that British would be good for this market when it's clearly not!!!

This is a Detroit thread, which means that does not apply. As long as you send a bunch of seats to DTW, the ghost of NW will guarantee good fortunes for you. Particularly, it will bless you if you fly a 744 on DTW-FNT
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 11:32 pm

ASQ400 wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
Why do you people think British is going to return to DTW? What is wrong with your heads? If London isn't successful, they're got going to buy into it!!! Stop making assumptions that British would be good for this market when it's clearly not!!!

This is a Detroit thread, which means that does not apply. As long as you send a bunch of seats to DTW, the ghost of NW will guarantee good fortunes for you. Particularly, it will bless you if you fly a 744 on DTW-FNT


Your posts on this page alone aren't helping make this thread any better, you're no better then the others.
 
11725Flyer
Posts: 656
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 4:51 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 11:43 pm

cvgComair wrote:

It is just not a DTW, DL's LHR flights have quite low load factors across the system. It is far from the worst, here is the data from November 2016 (65% loads overall):

City, Seats, Load
ATL, 13919, 78%
JFK, 17225, 73%
MSP, 5876, 73%
DTW, 5459, 56%
BOS, 5690, 55%
SEA, 5878, 52%
SLC, 3569, 45%
PHL, 4592, 35%



Thanks for the data. November is the low season to Europe, so it will be interesting to see what the LFs are during the summer. Also, how long does DL have to squat on the PHL-LHR slot before they can move it to another city?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24978
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 11:45 pm

11725Flyer wrote:
cvgComair wrote:

It is just not a DTW, DL's LHR flights have quite low load factors across the system. It is far from the worst, here is the data from November 2016 (65% loads overall):

City, Seats, Load
ATL, 13919, 78%
JFK, 17225, 73%
MSP, 5876, 73%
DTW, 5459, 56%
BOS, 5690, 55%
SEA, 5878, 52%
SLC, 3569, 45%
PHL, 4592, 35%



Thanks for the data. November is the low season to Europe, so it will be interesting to see what the LFs are during the summer. Also, how long does DL have to squat on the PHL-LHR slot before they can move it to another city?


It can't be moved to another city. It is handed back to AA after 10 years. I believe 2023/24.

On a similar note the BOSLHR slot reverts to AA in less than a year.
a.
 
ASQ400
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 11:48 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
Why do you people think British is going to return to DTW? What is wrong with your heads? If London isn't successful, they're got going to buy into it!!! Stop making assumptions that British would be good for this market when it's clearly not!!!

This is a Detroit thread, which means that does not apply. As long as you send a bunch of seats to DTW, the ghost of NW will guarantee good fortunes for you. Particularly, it will bless you if you fly a 744 on DTW-FNT


Your posts on this page alone aren't helping make this thread any better, you're no better then the others.

Oh, I'm just having fun annoying the fanboys. Any hope of dialogue on these threads died before I ever joined this forum, so I might as well get my kick
 
compensateme
Posts: 1998
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 11:50 pm

ASQ400 wrote:
Even if KLM service is that much better
A good amount of DTW users on a.net are idiots.
Detroit itself does suffer from blight, and hasn't recovered from all the outsourcing.


No, the idiots are the people who make comments like these....
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
11725Flyer
Posts: 656
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 4:51 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 11:50 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
It can't be moved to another city. It is handed back to AA after 10 years. I believe 2023/24.

On a similar note the BOSLHR slot reverts to AA in less than a year.


Got it, thanks.
 
ASQ400
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 27, 2017 11:55 pm

compensateme wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
Even if KLM service is that much better
A good amount of DTW users on a.net are idiots.
Detroit itself does suffer from blight, and hasn't recovered from all the outsourcing.


No, the idiots are the people who make comments like these....

Comments like these? They're valid.

The first one is the start of a sentence that ends with an explanation of why an idiot fanboy (the very much existent subject of comment #2) is not going to get his dream of KLM flights in DTW.

The last comment is true. Detroit has a decreasing population, low income, relatively high crime, and many of the manufacturing jobs are now in Mexico and China. The last is the reason why Donald Trump is President right now.
 
Midwestindy
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 28, 2017 12:18 am

cvgComair wrote:
thedetroitpole wrote:
My cousin, has recently flew from London to Detroit on Delta and explained to me how his trip went. He told me that even a 767-300 was fairly empty for a Monday. While the Detroit region has plenty of ties with London, what could be causing people to choose alternative travel options? It does not look promising for another airline if they wished to start service, unless of course, they sign a decent contract with a company in the area. It is not just autos that connects Detroit with the UK, it is other companies as well, for example; Froude Hoffman Inc., Trico Products, and Vero International to name a few. Perhaps, British Airways could offer more connectivity to other parts of the United Kingdom that would make for an easier connection and shorter travel time, instead of transiting via Amsterdam or Paris?


It is just not a DTW, DL's LHR flights have quite low load factors across the system. It is far from the worst, here is the data from November 2016 (65% loads overall):

City, Seats, Load
ATL, 13919, 78%
JFK, 17225, 73%
MSP, 5876, 73%
DTW, 5459, 56%
BOS, 5690, 55%
SEA, 5878, 52%
SLC, 3569, 45%
PHL, 4592, 35%

AI have noticed that DTW-LHR leaves much earlier than the LHR flight from other DL hubs, could this have something to do with it? Besides DTW pax having to leave earlier for the flight, connecting passengers would be leaving their origin much earlier as well.

DTW: 5:35 PM
MSP: 10:00 PM
SLC: 8:28 PM
ATL: 5:50 PM, 8:23 PM, 9:33 PM
JFK: 7:30 PM, 8:30 PM, 10:30 PM
BOS: 7:16 PM


These loads are garbage, which is sad to see SLC and PHL especially the sad thing is DLcould probably make more money moving those flights to other cities.
 
ASQ400
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 28, 2017 12:24 am

Midwestindy wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
thedetroitpole wrote:
My cousin, has recently flew from London to Detroit on Delta and explained to me how his trip went. He told me that even a 767-300 was fairly empty for a Monday. While the Detroit region has plenty of ties with London, what could be causing people to choose alternative travel options? It does not look promising for another airline if they wished to start service, unless of course, they sign a decent contract with a company in the area. It is not just autos that connects Detroit with the UK, it is other companies as well, for example; Froude Hoffman Inc., Trico Products, and Vero International to name a few. Perhaps, British Airways could offer more connectivity to other parts of the United Kingdom that would make for an easier connection and shorter travel time, instead of transiting via Amsterdam or Paris?


It is just not a DTW, DL's LHR flights have quite low load factors across the system. It is far from the worst, here is the data from November 2016 (65% loads overall):

City, Seats, Load
ATL, 13919, 78%
JFK, 17225, 73%
MSP, 5876, 73%
DTW, 5459, 56%
BOS, 5690, 55%
SEA, 5878, 52%
SLC, 3569, 45%
PHL, 4592, 35%

AI have noticed that DTW-LHR leaves much earlier than the LHR flight from other DL hubs, could this have something to do with it? Besides DTW pax having to leave earlier for the flight, connecting passengers would be leaving their origin much earlier as well.

DTW: 5:35 PM
MSP: 10:00 PM
SLC: 8:28 PM
ATL: 5:50 PM, 8:23 PM, 9:33 PM
JFK: 7:30 PM, 8:30 PM, 10:30 PM
BOS: 7:16 PM


These loads are garbage, which is sad to see SLC and PHL especially the sad thing is DLcould probably make more money moving those flights to other cities.

The problem is that their London partner (VS) no longer has domestic service, and has no Europe service, IIRC. That's a disadvantage against AA/BA
 
fsafsx
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:02 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 28, 2017 2:34 am

ASQ400 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
This is a Detroit thread, which means that does not apply. As long as you send a bunch of seats to DTW, the ghost of NW will guarantee good fortunes for you. Particularly, it will bless you if you fly a 744 on DTW-FNT


Your posts on this page alone aren't helping make this thread any better, you're no better then the others.

Oh, I'm just having fun annoying the fanboys. Any hope of dialogue on these threads died before I ever joined this forum, so I might as well get my kick
I'm irritated and mad, these people think Dtw is the next sea or iah, it's not!!! They need to get their head out of a pipe dream and realize Airlines don't want to fly to Detroit. They will loose money, British isn't coming back, wow will choose YQG over dtw, Lot will never come, emirates is shot, this airport is done gaining major service.
 
iFlyDTW
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue May 30, 2017 12:42 am

Okay my problem is, why don't you think British will come back to Detroit? Give me a few good reasons, don't use the lame excuses that there are other markets in better interest or DL would squash them because your assertions would be wrong. Actually, DL wouldn't be able to compete completely with British if they came back. The DTW-LHR point of sale would connect people onwards to parts of Europe that require a backtrack somewhat. With a large metro area there's no reason we can't have one. I think the 788 is the perfect sized plane to geneate good yields for British, and DL would no longer control the price which is outrageous fro a DTW. Ya know, we Detroitiers deserve London flights at a fair price and I think local people would be more than wiling to pay for it on British.
Home of the "Bare Fare" /// Banana Plane Republic
 
iFlyDTW
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue May 30, 2017 12:43 am

I actually think British could land in Detroit in 2018!
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