iFlyDTW
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:12 am

ADrum23 wrote:
iFlyDTW wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

Have you heard anything about this? I haven't. Though I think it is safe to say it's only a matter of time before NK starts service at BNA, and DTW will be among the first routes out of it.
Yes rumblings are all over that itll happen soon with a dense A320. Im thinking a mid April launch with the first routes being DTW and FLL, DTW on an A320 and FLL on an A319.


When would they announce this?
The trend with spring and early summer announcements generally happen during the last few weeks of December and first few weeks of January. New stations in most cases, are announced slightly earlier than new routes from existing stations. I dont know if thatll be the case but thats what Ive observed the last few years.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:51 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
NK's universe is much more than just DTW. You guys sure talk like BDL and BNA are sure bets, but there are lots of other opportunities out there besides just DTW-specific routes for NK. That said, I see BNA more plausible than BDL.



I have to agree with this if DTW was as important as some make it out to be NK would be adding at least one route from DTW every route announcement. DTW is just another large focus city for NK much less relevant that many make it out to be. NK has bigger fish to fry than adding flights to BNA and BDL from Detroit and their actions when making route announcements more than proves that fact. If DTW was that vital to NK it would connect every new station to DTW with at least one flight.
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kavok
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:05 am

With the DL addition of IND-CDG, might we see some down gauging or frequency reductions on one of the DTW-TATL flights?

Currently if you are flying TATL from IND, DTW makes the most sense from a DL connection standpoint currently. If those IND pax go away from DTW and now fly direct, could we see a slight decrease in the demand of DTW-TATL pax that are no longer connecting in DTW?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:13 am

Not pure decreases in frequency but that partially explains why DTW-AMS is now being flown predominately with A330-200s instead of A330-300's offering fewer seats than in some years prior and how this offsets the need for when a 5th peak summer frequency has been flown.

Route like IND-CDG pull from a variety of existing flights/connections, pull conquest demand from competitors, and generate some new traffic flows.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:20 am

I asked someone about that, you shouldn't see any changes in CDG or AMS frequency or capacity, DL will easily transition MSP dominant connections to split more evenly amongst MSP and DTW both.
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iFlyDTW
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:03 am

Let me take a moment to explain why I think Icelandair wont be landed at DTW.

First off, especially with Icelandair, they prefer to be in a 1 operator scenario, as in they prefer to enter monopoly markets before double carrier markets, this seems to be the direction F9 is shifting to.

Next, they dont want to be the "test dummy" to fail on a potentially dangerous route, who knows, this could be a disaster for WW.

Lastly, why use perfectly good 757/767s to places that are in reach for WW, when you can use them to stations outside of WW range? I hope this is successful for both WW and DTW, but Im sorry, now with CLE landing FI, I just dont see them landing at DTW unless WW is out or when theres no more room for FI to expand until they have to face multi-carrier routes, there are so many cities ahead of DTW for FI service, ATL, CMH, MKE, MCI, BUF, and AUS to name a few.
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iFlyDTW
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:17 am

Detroit officials are really looking to get Amazon to make a second HQ here in Detroit, the support theyre offering is putting us ahead of most other cities, Dan Gilbert is also involved, so incentives could be up there. If this happens, it would not only boost the economy but so many opportunities for cargo and other air service is going to increase dramatically. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20 ... adquarters
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:42 pm

iFlyDTW wrote:
Detroit officials are really looking to get Amazon to make a second HQ here in Detroit, the support theyre offering is putting us ahead of most other cities, Dan Gilbert is also involved, so incentives could be up there. If this happens, it would not only boost the economy but so many opportunities for cargo and other air service is going to increase dramatically. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20 ... adquarters


It's a little bit late for that CVG was on the ball and landed Amazon. I'm here to tell you it's not happening. They are not going to build another transfer point just about 6 hours up the road.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:46 pm

Within 12 months EK will announce DTW-DXB
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lavalampluva
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:06 pm

klm617 wrote:
Within 12 months EK will announce DTW-DXB

Based on what evidence? :biggrin:
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:12 am

lavalampluva wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Within 12 months EK will announce DTW-DXB

Based on what evidence? :biggrin:



Have faith my friend.
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jordanh
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:25 pm

I have been reading about this for a long time. I really have to say something.
klm617 wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Within 12 months EK will announce DTW-DXB

Based on what evidence? :biggrin:

Have faith my friend.

Your other predictions haven't been so good.
klm617 wrote:
You can laugh all you want but keep reaching deeper into you pockets for higher than average airfares in this market while Delta laughs all the way to the bank as Delta is able to keep low fare carriers pretty much out of this market with the help of the WCAA. Now Norwegian is adding m ORD-LGW further eroding the Detroit-London market as more travelers will be driving to Chicago to get a decent fare to London. There is no reason why that same flight wouldn't work out of Detroit if the was a commitment to bring a low cost European airline to Detroit but the WCAA has little interest in offering you affordable options so you don't have to be gouged by Delta when flying to Europe.

klm617 wrote:
No it's not about Detroit's reputation it's about the airport being very ineffective at marketing the airport to competition and having Delta as their hub carrier they is very little incentive for them to chase new business for the airport because they know the backlash that would bring.

klm617 wrote:
Looks like 2018 will be another year of little to no growth as DTW continues to be content with sitting on the sidelines while other cities continue to land new flights right and left. With each one of these new added flights in other markets our revenue at this airport takes another hit. As each year goes by with no new flights affordable international travel out of DTW gets further and further away along with it goes the likelihood that this airport will ever land a low coast international airline.

klm617 wrote:
Are there any credible rumors out there for any new international flights being added for S18. Right now new international flights are being announced right and left but it looks like S18 will have zero significant adds. BA to Nashville DY to AUS and ORD DL AMS-MCO ATL-PVG LH FRA-SAN WK ZRH-DEN/MCO not looking good here. Looks like the WCAA is content with sitting on the sidelines another year. With all these summer seasonal flights I'm sure there is something that could work her in Detroit. Delta is killing this market competitors won't enter Detroit because they fear a Delta backlash.

klm617 wrote:
As far as WOW Air as each year goes by the chances are less and less that Detroit will land any of these low cost European carriers as there is really no push by the WCAA to add international flights out of Detroit. The WCAA seems to walk ever so carefully because they don't want to offend Delta in any way even though Delta has almost zero growth planned for this market.

But when it happened, you must have forgotten all you wrote before that:
klm617 wrote:
I can't believe how quiet this thread is with the big announcement yesterday of WOW Air adding Detroit guess ORD and YYZ weren't to close at all for DTW to be added and what this means to this market and what we can expect going forward should this flight become very successful. How will Delta react if at all. Would be nice to hear the thoughts and ideas of all those to claim to be "In the Know" all the time and bring their thoughts of logic into each conversation.

Maybe you should leave the predicting to people who know something.
 
compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:58 pm

DL uploaded their Sunday after Thanksgiving upgauges this weekend. DTW gets a 330 to SFO and a pair of 764 to MCO but it doesn't look like any 744 flights are planned (anywhere).
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:12 pm

compensateme wrote:
DL uploaded their Sunday after Thanksgiving upgauges this weekend. DTW gets a 330 to SFO and a pair of 764 to MCO but it doesn't look like any 744 flights are planned (anywhere).
76W for RSW, 332 for ATL,
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2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:57 am

klm617 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
NK's universe is much more than just DTW. You guys sure talk like BDL and BNA are sure bets, but there are lots of other opportunities out there besides just DTW-specific routes for NK. That said, I see BNA more plausible than BDL.



I have to agree with this if DTW was as important as some make it out to be NK would be adding at least one route from DTW every route announcement. DTW is just another large focus city for NK much less relevant that many make it out to be. NK has bigger fish to fry than adding flights to BNA and BDL from Detroit and their actions when making route announcements more than proves that fact. If DTW was that vital to NK it would connect every new station to DTW with at least one flight.

At the same time, Delta doesn't add something to ATL with every announcement, and you wouldn't deny that they treasure it deeply.
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:14 pm

DL is doing a 757 in December from DTW-GRR. The fun part is in previous years this flight most of the times leaves full. A 757 going to GRR is typically more full than a 757 to IND.
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2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:21 pm

flymco753 wrote:
DL is doing a 757 in December from DTW-GRR. The fun part is in previous years this flight most of the times leaves full. A 757 going to GRR is typically more full than a 757 to IND.

It's a 757. It's definitely full of fish.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:21 pm

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DL is doing a 757 in December from DTW-GRR. The fun part is in previous years this flight most of the times leaves full. A 757 going to GRR is typically more full than a 757 to IND.

It's a 757. It's definitely full of fish.


More full or not, interestingly IND-DTW is more profitable than GRR-DTW
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:00 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DL is doing a 757 in December from DTW-GRR. The fun part is in previous years this flight most of the times leaves full. A 757 going to GRR is typically more full than a 757 to IND.

It's a 757. It's definitely full of fish.


More full or not, interestingly IND-DTW is more profitable than GRR-DTW
That's surprising considering IND-DTW is pretty unprofitable right now, but of course DL keeps tacking on the 757 to IND-DTW on the morning outbound from IND and night departure from DTW. I've seen 757's on MKE, PIT, and STL in the past, not as frequently as IND or GRR.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:12 pm

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
NK's universe is much more than just DTW. You guys sure talk like BDL and BNA are sure bets, but there are lots of other opportunities out there besides just DTW-specific routes for NK. That said, I see BNA more plausible than BDL.



I have to agree with this if DTW was as important as some make it out to be NK would be adding at least one route from DTW every route announcement. DTW is just another large focus city for NK much less relevant that many make it out to be. NK has bigger fish to fry than adding flights to BNA and BDL from Detroit and their actions when making route announcements more than proves that fact. If DTW was that vital to NK it would connect every new station to DTW with at least one flight.

At the same time, Delta doesn't add something to ATL with every announcement, and you wouldn't deny that they treasure it deeply.


For the past year they have been many ATL adds.

ATL-ICN
ATL-PVG
ATL-HAV
ATL-PTP and FTF with skyteam partner AF
ATL to Mexico at least 6 adds via DL and skyteam partner AM

The Detroit adds.


DTW-SNA
DTW-MEX via AM

Quite a contrast wouldn't you say.


NK out of DTW seasonal OAK and SEA other markets have seen far more adds than DTW on NK no market has seen more adds that ATL by DL in the last year in the DL network .
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:35 pm

Where else is there to go though for DL and domestic service? DL just added the largest market with no nonstop. SNA has been leaving full or oversold the last few days, so if this flight is profitable, I assume the most logical thing to do would be introduce DTW-SJC. The new SNA service hasn't and won't effect the current LAX service as SJC wouldn't interfere with SFO service.

SMF would than be the largest O&D market from DTW, but DL has tried and failed in the past so it's highly unlikely they'll do it again. In the scenario SJC is added in the next few years, the top 3 markets will be (according to PDEW date and general forecasting); SMF, ELP, TUS with ABQ following in a seasonal 4th place. There's relatively nowhere DL can go after than unless they add a very seasonal, RNO, BOI, BZN which they won't do.

Internationally, AM is bringing MTY back on a codeshare which is promising for additional interior Mexico service like BJX, QRO and GDL. There's no way to get a nonstop to BOM, DEL, BEY because of the regional location of DTW compared to coastal or southern hubs, with the exclusion of YYZ and ORD because they're mega cities. When it comes down to that, AMM 2x weekly perfectly serves that area of the ME, FRA and CDG serve India fairly well. I'd say the major gaps internationally are lower cost access to Latin markets and YYC up in Canada, DL won't do YYC though due to the impact it could take on MSP, and WS is capable of serving it from YQG. Realistically more seasonal Caribbean markets could come online like NK on PUJ and DL adding a weekend SXM and AUA flight.
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2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:22 pm

klm617 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:


I have to agree with this if DTW was as important as some make it out to be NK would be adding at least one route from DTW every route announcement. DTW is just another large focus city for NK much less relevant that many make it out to be. NK has bigger fish to fry than adding flights to BNA and BDL from Detroit and their actions when making route announcements more than proves that fact. If DTW was that vital to NK it would connect every new station to DTW with at least one flight.

At the same time, Delta doesn't add something to ATL with every announcement, and you wouldn't deny that they treasure it deeply.


For the past year they have been many ATL adds.

ATL-ICN
ATL-PVG
ATL-HAV
ATL-PTP and FTF with skyteam partner AF
ATL to Mexico at least 6 adds via DL and skyteam partner AM

The Detroit adds.


DTW-SNA
DTW-MEX via AM

Quite a contrast wouldn't you say.


NK out of DTW seasonal OAK and SEA other markets have seen far more adds than DTW on NK no market has seen more adds that ATL by DL in the last year in the DL network .

But does Delta add something to ATL every time it announces any route at all?
I'm not denying that Atlanta is a bigger piece of the Delta network than Detroit is of either DL or NK's, I'm saying that no one announces adds from a single airport with every single announcement ever.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:31 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
It's a 757. It's definitely full of fish.


More full or not, interestingly IND-DTW is more profitable than GRR-DTW
That's surprising considering IND-DTW is pretty unprofitable right now, but of course DL keeps tacking on the 757 to IND-DTW on the morning outbound from IND and night departure from DTW. I've seen 757's on MKE, PIT, and STL in the past, not as frequently as IND or GRR.


If IND-DTW was unprofitable wouldn't they have cut frequencies by now?
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:26 am

flymco753 wrote:
Where else is there to go though for DL and domestic service? DL just added the largest market with no nonstop. SNA has been leaving full or oversold the last few days, so if this flight is profitable, I assume the most logical thing to do would be introduce DTW-SJC. The new SNA service hasn't and won't effect the current LAX service as SJC wouldn't interfere with SFO service.

SMF would than be the largest O&D market from DTW, but DL has tried and failed in the past so it's highly unlikely they'll do it again. In the scenario SJC is added in the next few years, the top 3 markets will be (according to PDEW date and general forecasting); SMF, ELP, TUS with ABQ following in a seasonal 4th place. There's relatively nowhere DL can go after than unless they add a very seasonal, RNO, BOI, BZN which they won't do.

Internationally, AM is bringing MTY back on a codeshare which is promising for additional interior Mexico service like BJX, QRO and GDL. There's no way to get a nonstop to BOM, DEL, BEY because of the regional location of DTW compared to coastal or southern hubs, with the exclusion of YYZ and ORD because they're mega cities. When it comes down to that, AMM 2x weekly perfectly serves that area of the ME, FRA and CDG serve India fairly well. I'd say the major gaps internationally are lower cost access to Latin markets and YYC up in Canada, DL won't do YYC though due to the impact it could take on MSP, and WS is capable of serving it from YQG. Realistically more seasonal Caribbean markets could come online like NK on PUJ and DL adding a weekend SXM and AUA flight.



I'd say YHZ, HNL,RST, ICT, FSD SJC and ANC.
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:27 am

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Where else is there to go though for DL and domestic service? DL just added the largest market with no nonstop. SNA has been leaving full or oversold the last few days, so if this flight is profitable, I assume the most logical thing to do would be introduce DTW-SJC. The new SNA service hasn't and won't effect the current LAX service as SJC wouldn't interfere with SFO service.

SMF would than be the largest O&D market from DTW, but DL has tried and failed in the past so it's highly unlikely they'll do it again. In the scenario SJC is added in the next few years, the top 3 markets will be (according to PDEW date and general forecasting); SMF, ELP, TUS with ABQ following in a seasonal 4th place. There's relatively nowhere DL can go after than unless they add a very seasonal, RNO, BOI, BZN which they won't do.

Internationally, AM is bringing MTY back on a codeshare which is promising for additional interior Mexico service like BJX, QRO and GDL. There's no way to get a nonstop to BOM, DEL, BEY because of the regional location of DTW compared to coastal or southern hubs, with the exclusion of YYZ and ORD because they're mega cities. When it comes down to that, AMM 2x weekly perfectly serves that area of the ME, FRA and CDG serve India fairly well. I'd say the major gaps internationally are lower cost access to Latin markets and YYC up in Canada, DL won't do YYC though due to the impact it could take on MSP, and WS is capable of serving it from YQG. Realistically more seasonal Caribbean markets could come online like NK on PUJ and DL adding a weekend SXM and AUA flight.



I'd say YHZ, HNL,RST, ICT, FSD SJC and ANC.
YHZ is less than 30 per day, HNL could happen again some day, seasonally. RST, ICT, FSD are less than 30 per day and ANC is in the same boat as HNL, seasonally would be best bet.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:30 am

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
At the same time, Delta doesn't add something to ATL with every announcement, and you wouldn't deny that they treasure it deeply.


For the past year they have been many ATL adds.

ATL-ICN
ATL-PVG
ATL-HAV
ATL-PTP and FTF with skyteam partner AF
ATL to Mexico at least 6 adds via DL and skyteam partner AM

The Detroit adds.


DTW-SNA
DTW-MEX via AM

Quite a contrast wouldn't you say.


NK out of DTW seasonal OAK and SEA other markets have seen far more adds than DTW on NK no market has seen more adds that ATL by DL in the last year in the DL network .

But does Delta add something to ATL every time it announces any route at all?
I'm not denying that Atlanta is a bigger piece of the Delta network than Detroit is of either DL or NK's, I'm saying that no one announces adds from a single airport with every single announcement ever.


No but the frequency of the adds at ATL are more than the frequency of NK adds at DTW in perportion. There are more non DTW adds compared to the bulk of the adds for DL are at ATL compared to the rest of the Delta network. For NK there is about 1 DTW add for every 10 adds in the NK network in ATL there are about 6 adds out of every 10 in the Delta network. So ATL is a bigger fish for DL than DTW will ever be for NK
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:33 am

flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Where else is there to go though for DL and domestic service? DL just added the largest market with no nonstop. SNA has been leaving full or oversold the last few days, so if this flight is profitable, I assume the most logical thing to do would be introduce DTW-SJC. The new SNA service hasn't and won't effect the current LAX service as SJC wouldn't interfere with SFO service.

SMF would than be the largest O&D market from DTW, but DL has tried and failed in the past so it's highly unlikely they'll do it again. In the scenario SJC is added in the next few years, the top 3 markets will be (according to PDEW date and general forecasting); SMF, ELP, TUS with ABQ following in a seasonal 4th place. There's relatively nowhere DL can go after than unless they add a very seasonal, RNO, BOI, BZN which they won't do.

Internationally, AM is bringing MTY back on a codeshare which is promising for additional interior Mexico service like BJX, QRO and GDL. There's no way to get a nonstop to BOM, DEL, BEY because of the regional location of DTW compared to coastal or southern hubs, with the exclusion of YYZ and ORD because they're mega cities. When it comes down to that, AMM 2x weekly perfectly serves that area of the ME, FRA and CDG serve India fairly well. I'd say the major gaps internationally are lower cost access to Latin markets and YYC up in Canada, DL won't do YYC though due to the impact it could take on MSP, and WS is capable of serving it from YQG. Realistically more seasonal Caribbean markets could come online like NK on PUJ and DL adding a weekend SXM and AUA flight.



I'd say YHZ, HNL,RST, ICT, FSD SJC and ANC.
YHZ is less than 30 per day, HNL could happen again some day, seasonally. RST, ICT, FSD are less than 30 per day and ANC is in the same boat as HNL, seasonally would be best bet.


Add the transfer passengers and you got enough for one daily CR7 to all those markets.
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:07 am

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:


I'd say YHZ, HNL,RST, ICT, FSD SJC and ANC.
YHZ is less than 30 per day, HNL could happen again some day, seasonally. RST, ICT, FSD are less than 30 per day and ANC is in the same boat as HNL, seasonally would be best bet.


Add the transfer passengers and you got enough for one daily CR7 to all those markets.
You're right, but I think a goal for regional flying should be multiple flights per day if I want it to be more profitable. SJC and most likely ELP are definite in the coming years. Internationally, expect the use of partners as opposed to DL metal, AM could completely take over MTY, KE could add an ICN flight, and probably will to strengthen Asia on all fronts. I don't think VS will come back, but I think it's possible KL will take over a DL frequency, in turn reducing it down to 2x daily for DL and 1x daily for KL, because unfortunately that 4th frequency is going to be gone soon.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:13 am

klm617 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:

For the past year they have been many ATL adds.

ATL-ICN
ATL-PVG
ATL-HAV
ATL-PTP and FTF with skyteam partner AF
ATL to Mexico at least 6 adds via DL and skyteam partner AM

The Detroit adds.


DTW-SNA
DTW-MEX via AM

Quite a contrast wouldn't you say.


NK out of DTW seasonal OAK and SEA other markets have seen far more adds than DTW on NK no market has seen more adds that ATL by DL in the last year in the DL network .

But does Delta add something to ATL every time it announces any route at all?
I'm not denying that Atlanta is a bigger piece of the Delta network than Detroit is of either DL or NK's, I'm saying that no one announces adds from a single airport with every single announcement ever.


No but the frequency of the adds at ATL are more than the frequency of NK adds at DTW in perportion. There are more non DTW adds compared to the bulk of the adds for DL are at ATL compared to the rest of the Delta network. For NK there is about 1 DTW add for every 10 adds in the NK network in ATL there are about 6 adds out of every 10 in the Delta network. So ATL is a bigger fish for DL than DTW will ever be for NK

I never said that DTW is NK's number one hub. I said that you shouldn't expect them to add to it all the time (which you said they should) because big airlines don't do that even with their number one hubs.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:47 am

flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
YHZ is less than 30 per day, HNL could happen again some day, seasonally. RST, ICT, FSD are less than 30 per day and ANC is in the same boat as HNL, seasonally would be best bet.


Add the transfer passengers and you got enough for one daily CR7 to all those markets.
You're right, but I think a goal for regional flying should be multiple flights per day if I want it to be more profitable. SJC and most likely ELP are definite in the coming years. Internationally, expect the use of partners as opposed to DL metal, AM could completely take over MTY, KE could add an ICN flight, and probably will to strengthen Asia on all fronts. I don't think VS will come back, but I think it's possible KL will take over a DL frequency, in turn reducing it down to 2x daily for DL and 1x daily for KL, because unfortunately that 4th frequency is going to be gone soon.


It interesting that you mention that because I was thinking the same thing that 4X daily DTW-AMS will not last much longer with the trend of shifting away international traffic from DTW and moving it to SLC, MSP and ATL. I was thinking that next summer there will only be 3 daily AMS but we shall see. I still believe that it is DL goal to keep reducing DTW in favor of other hubs.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:06 am

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Add the transfer passengers and you got enough for one daily CR7 to all those markets.
You're right, but I think a goal for regional flying should be multiple flights per day if I want it to be more profitable. SJC and most likely ELP are definite in the coming years. Internationally, expect the use of partners as opposed to DL metal, AM could completely take over MTY, KE could add an ICN flight, and probably will to strengthen Asia on all fronts. I don't think VS will come back, but I think it's possible KL will take over a DL frequency, in turn reducing it down to 2x daily for DL and 1x daily for KL, because unfortunately that 4th frequency is going to be gone soon.


It interesting that you mention that because I was thinking the same thing that 4X daily DTW-AMS will not last much longer with the trend of shifting away international traffic from DTW and moving it to SLC, MSP and ATL. I was thinking that next summer there will only be 3 daily AMS but we shall see. I still believe that it is DL goal to keep reducing DTW in favor of other hubs.

I don't think you understand what a goal is.

Delta's GOAL is to make as much profit as possible. Delta believes that it will be more profitable to route more traffic through hubs other than Detroit, so it does that. Cutting capacity at DTW is a means to an end.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:43 am

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Add the transfer passengers and you got enough for one daily CR7 to all those markets.
You're right, but I think a goal for regional flying should be multiple flights per day if I want it to be more profitable. SJC and most likely ELP are definite in the coming years. Internationally, expect the use of partners as opposed to DL metal, AM could completely take over MTY, KE could add an ICN flight, and probably will to strengthen Asia on all fronts. I don't think VS will come back, but I think it's possible KL will take over a DL frequency, in turn reducing it down to 2x daily for DL and 1x daily for KL, because unfortunately that 4th frequency is going to be gone soon.


It interesting that you mention that because I was thinking the same thing that 4X daily DTW-AMS will not last much longer with the trend of shifting away international traffic from DTW and moving it to SLC, MSP and ATL. I was thinking that next summer there will only be 3 daily AMS but we shall see. I still believe that it is DL goal to keep reducing DTW in favor of other hubs.
DL will reduce AMS but KL could most likely fly the 3rd flight. The route will probably turn into 2x 333 and 1xKL 332
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:45 am

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
You're right, but I think a goal for regional flying should be multiple flights per day if I want it to be more profitable. SJC and most likely ELP are definite in the coming years. Internationally, expect the use of partners as opposed to DL metal, AM could completely take over MTY, KE could add an ICN flight, and probably will to strengthen Asia on all fronts. I don't think VS will come back, but I think it's possible KL will take over a DL frequency, in turn reducing it down to 2x daily for DL and 1x daily for KL, because unfortunately that 4th frequency is going to be gone soon.


It interesting that you mention that because I was thinking the same thing that 4X daily DTW-AMS will not last much longer with the trend of shifting away international traffic from DTW and moving it to SLC, MSP and ATL. I was thinking that next summer there will only be 3 daily AMS but we shall see. I still believe that it is DL goal to keep reducing DTW in favor of other hubs.

I don't think you understand what a goal is.

Delta's GOAL is to make as much profit as possible. Delta believes that it will be more profitable to route more traffic through hubs other than Detroit, so it does that. Cutting capacity at DTW is a means to an end.
If SJC is added soon I do suspect some kind of reduction elsewhere if they're keeping the status quo.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:21 am

flymco753 wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
klm617 wrote:

It interesting that you mention that because I was thinking the same thing that 4X daily DTW-AMS will not last much longer with the trend of shifting away international traffic from DTW and moving it to SLC, MSP and ATL. I was thinking that next summer there will only be 3 daily AMS but we shall see. I still believe that it is DL goal to keep reducing DTW in favor of other hubs.

I don't think you understand what a goal is.

Delta's GOAL is to make as much profit as possible. Delta believes that it will be more profitable to route more traffic through hubs other than Detroit, so it does that. Cutting capacity at DTW is a means to an end.
If SJC is added soon I do suspect some kind of reduction elsewhere if they're keeping the status quo.

What status quo would that be?
In any case, SJC's market seems plenty saturated already, between WN, AS, and the longhaul boom. I wouldn't call it wise for Delta to fight in this market when it's got other turf wars to run.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:43 pm

Well we are kind of running out of time here does anyone expect anything new from Delta as far as summer 2018 goes ?
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
SESGDL
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:31 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DL is doing a 757 in December from DTW-GRR. The fun part is in previous years this flight most of the times leaves full. A 757 going to GRR is typically more full than a 757 to IND.

It's a 757. It's definitely full of fish.


More full or not, interestingly IND-DTW is more profitable than GRR-DTW


How do you know whether IND-DTW is profitable?

Jeremy
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:32 pm

flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
You're right, but I think a goal for regional flying should be multiple flights per day if I want it to be more profitable. SJC and most likely ELP are definite in the coming years. Internationally, expect the use of partners as opposed to DL metal, AM could completely take over MTY, KE could add an ICN flight, and probably will to strengthen Asia on all fronts. I don't think VS will come back, but I think it's possible KL will take over a DL frequency, in turn reducing it down to 2x daily for DL and 1x daily for KL, because unfortunately that 4th frequency is going to be gone soon.


It interesting that you mention that because I was thinking the same thing that 4X daily DTW-AMS will not last much longer with the trend of shifting away international traffic from DTW and moving it to SLC, MSP and ATL. I was thinking that next summer there will only be 3 daily AMS but we shall see. I still believe that it is DL goal to keep reducing DTW in favor of other hubs.
DL will reduce AMS but KL could most likely fly the 3rd flight. The route will probably turn into 2x 333 and 1xKL 332


Based on what? Are people literally pulling things out of thin air at this point? There's no backup or support for anything anyone's saying in this thread.

Jeremy
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:37 pm

SESGDL wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

It interesting that you mention that because I was thinking the same thing that 4X daily DTW-AMS will not last much longer with the trend of shifting away international traffic from DTW and moving it to SLC, MSP and ATL. I was thinking that next summer there will only be 3 daily AMS but we shall see. I still believe that it is DL goal to keep reducing DTW in favor of other hubs.
DL will reduce AMS but KL could most likely fly the 3rd flight. The route will probably turn into 2x 333 and 1xKL 332


Based on what? Are people literally pulling things out of thin air at this point? There's no backup or support for anything anyone's saying in this thread.

Jeremy
General forecasting, nothing is concrete for what I posted. Taking into account business plans, fleet size, and economical perspectives, all of the basic fundamentals you should've learned in an Aviation Management program.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
fsafsx
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:41 pm

flymco753 wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DL will reduce AMS but KL could most likely fly the 3rd flight. The route will probably turn into 2x 333 and 1xKL 332


Based on what? Are people literally pulling things out of thin air at this point? There's no backup or support for anything anyone's saying in this thread.

Jeremy
General forecasting, nothing is concrete for what I posted. Taking into account business plans, fleet size, and economical perspectives, all of the basic fundamentals you should've learned in an Aviation Management program.
we all get it ok you have a degree so what that doesnt give you a right to be elite and better than everyone.
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:43 pm

SESGDL wrote:
Based on what? Are people literally pulling things out of thin air at this point? There's no backup or support for anything anyone's saying in this thread.
Jeremy


There's plenty of backup and support for what I've written within this thread, so your comments aren't true.

Nonetheless, the lion's share of threads on this website -- probably well in excess of 90% -- lack backup and support. In fact, this thread probably has more facts and supports than the typical a.net thread (which is quite pathetic, obviously). On a.net, it's fairly common for a.netters to say, for example, for years that ''MSP-NRT is NW's most profitable route' without any proof or support (other than they think they read it somewhere) and then to challenge naysayers to provide some evidence or support to prove that it isn't true.
Last edited by compensateme on Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:43 pm

fsafsx wrote:
we all get it ok you have a degree so what that doesnt give you a right to be elite and better than everyone.
You're wrong because 1. I don't have a degree yet and 2. I bet you don't even have your diploma yet, let alone saying someone with a degree is elite.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:46 pm

SESGDL wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
It's a 757. It's definitely full of fish.


More full or not, interestingly IND-DTW is more profitable than GRR-DTW


How do you know whether IND-DTW is profitable?

Jeremy


DL runs virtually the same fleet on the GRR-DTW route as the IND-DTW route and they are virtually the same distance, but in 2016 GRR-DTW revenue/per flight was at $118,177.91, while IND-DTW revenue/per flight was at $234,275.15. So, therefore I assume that IND-DTW is more profitable than GRR-DTW...
Last edited by Midwestindy on Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:04 pm

flymco753 wrote:
You're wrong because 1. I don't have a degree yet and 2. I bet you don't even have your diploma yet, let alone saying someone with a degree is elite.
I have a degree in Aviation Business Administration yet the difference between you and I is, I talk to people as if they were human. You should have learned to include sources or a complete outlook as opposed to bits and pieces, I expect more from you as a student.
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:43 pm

flymco753 wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DL will reduce AMS but KL could most likely fly the 3rd flight. The route will probably turn into 2x 333 and 1xKL 332


Based on what? Are people literally pulling things out of thin air at this point? There's no backup or support for anything anyone's saying in this thread.

Jeremy
General forecasting, nothing is concrete for what I posted. Taking into account business plans, fleet size, and economical perspectives, all of the basic fundamentals you should've learned in an Aviation Management program.

And where did you get their business plans and whatnot?
Even if you did have what you claim to be using as a source, this is still a prediction from a semi-educated a-netter; in other words, it's an educated guess. You stated it like a fact, which it isn't.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:49 pm

SESGDL wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

It interesting that you mention that because I was thinking the same thing that 4X daily DTW-AMS will not last much longer with the trend of shifting away international traffic from DTW and moving it to SLC, MSP and ATL. I was thinking that next summer there will only be 3 daily AMS but we shall see. I still believe that it is DL goal to keep reducing DTW in favor of other hubs.
DL will reduce AMS but KL could most likely fly the 3rd flight. The route will probably turn into 2x 333 and 1xKL 332


Based on what? Are people literally pulling things out of thin air at this point? There's no backup or support for anything anyone's saying in this thread.

Jeremy


Speculation on the general trend at the way Delta handles the DTW and MSP hubs so one can only come to the conclusion that a DTW-AMS reduction is most likely in the cards in the not to distant future. All we really have to go on based on the fact that we are not in the know is the trends we see as airline enthusiasts . I think those who bark out fact facts facts are those who like to rub it in that they work for cooperate at the airlines but refuse to put out there what they know claiming they can't do it for legal reasons.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:01 pm

klm617 wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DL will reduce AMS but KL could most likely fly the 3rd flight. The route will probably turn into 2x 333 and 1xKL 332


Based on what? Are people literally pulling things out of thin air at this point? There's no backup or support for anything anyone's saying in this thread.

Jeremy


Speculation on the general trend at the way Delta handles the DTW and MSP hubs so one can only come to the conclusion that a DTW-AMS reduction is most likely in the cards in the not to distant future. All we really have to go on based on the fact that we are not in the know is the trends we see as airline enthusiasts . I think those who bark out fact facts facts are those who like to rub it in that they work for cooperate at the airlines but refuse to put out there what they know claiming they can't do it for legal reasons.

1. You're misreading the trend. Delta is increasing service in Detroit, not decreasing. It's routing more traffic over MSP nowadays, but both hubs are GROWING. The only way Detroit will see a drop in AMS frequencies is either another economic collapse, or the addition of a flight on MSP-AMS.
2. Of course they can't leak (what you called "put out") internal airline plans and whatnot. That hurts their airline, puts them at risk of getting sacked, and of course could well result in whatever they leaked being changed. If this is what you're into, go on WikiLeaks, not a.net.
3. The trends we read are all good and well, until some moron (read: klm617) decides to read upside-down. Namely, when a moron looks at increasing seat counts and proclaims that seat counts are going down, or when the moron rants about his odd set of morals, which he then nonsensically proclaims as facts.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
SESGDL
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:39 pm

compensateme wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
Based on what? Are people literally pulling things out of thin air at this point? There's no backup or support for anything anyone's saying in this thread.
Jeremy


There's plenty of backup and support for what I've written within this thread, so your comments aren't true.

Nonetheless, the lion's share of threads on this website -- probably well in excess of 90% -- lack backup and support. In fact, this thread probably has more facts and supports than the typical a.net thread (which is quite pathetic, obviously). On a.net, it's fairly common for a.netters to say, for example, for years that ''MSP-NRT is NW's most profitable route' without any proof or support (other than they think they read it somewhere) and then to challenge naysayers to provide some evidence or support to prove that it isn't true.


Rolls eyes. This was in reference to comments like IND-DTW is more profitable than route XXX-YYY or that DL's going to cut DTW-AMS with zero evidence. And no need to be condensing about this forum, I've been posting for 16 years and know full well how it works.

Jeremy
 
SESGDL
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:41 pm

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
SESGDL wrote:

Based on what? Are people literally pulling things out of thin air at this point? There's no backup or support for anything anyone's saying in this thread.

Jeremy
General forecasting, nothing is concrete for what I posted. Taking into account business plans, fleet size, and economical perspectives, all of the basic fundamentals you should've learned in an Aviation Management program.

And where did you get their business plans and whatnot?
Even if you did have what you claim to be using as a source, this is still a prediction from a semi-educated a-netter; in other words, it's an educated guess. You stated it like a fact, which it isn't.


He clearly was predicting or assuming and stating things as fact, which is obnoxious. I don't know why opinions can't be phrased as such.

Jeremy
 
reasonable
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:55 pm

Let's get back on track, or else the thread will be closed.

A fair question that the little klm and the reasonable people here would both be interested in is why DL chose MSP and SLC for KL service, but not DTW.

Personally, I couldn't care less about such small ball, but it is definitely a fair (and potentially interesting) question.
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:10 am

reasonable wrote:
Let's get back on track, or else the thread will be closed.

A fair question that the little klm and the reasonable people here would both be interested in is why DL chose MSP and SLC for KL service, but not DTW.

Personally, I couldn't care less about such small ball, but it is definitely a fair (and potentially interesting) question.

Doesn't DTW have a big ol' maintenance base? That'd seem like a great reason to route more of their metal from there.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.

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