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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:13 pm

FI has been announcing 2 new US destinations a year for the last few years, in terms of city size, east of the Mississippi DTW and ATL are holes in their networks, so my question is, if one of the ICE2 decide to do DTW, which one will it be, and which one would benefit DTW the most?
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:20 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DTW has more O&D to MCO than ATL, which is why I'm confused as to why the argument for B6 beginning DTW-MCO is completely invalid.



Keep this in mind while F9 and NK operate DTW-MCO they are really not in direct completion with Delta. Delta offers a more full service product while NK and F9 offer a bare bone type of service. Right now the is a Saturday only Southwest flight that competes directly with Delta's product and then you have your answer all direct competition with Delta's service in Detroit are not encouraged so hence you have your answer why B6 does not serve the Detroit Orlando market to keep Delta in the drivers seat in each and every market they serve out of Detroit.

Not encouraged??? By who? That comment makes zero sense. No entity has neither encouraged or discouraged B6 from my operating DTW-MCO other than based on their own network plans and whatever the market data suggests.

I am not sure why their is such infatuation over B6 on a route like DTW-MCO that already is one of the biggest competitive markets out of DTW. First look at B6 strategy, they have primarily been building up flights out of their core markets like BOS, JFK, FLL. Hence, DTW was added as a spoke for BOS and now later FLL. Now we are seeing B6 add flights from other core markets like MCO to key outstations where they feel there is an opportunity. Yes, DTW has ever so-slightly more O&D than ATL but its really pretty darn close and I'd venture to guess the ATL-MCO overall O&D market is actually much larger but a healthy portion of the market drives instead of flies. ATL-MCO actually is a better add for B6 at the moment because the actual air fares are similar but the flight is half the distance and takes half of the amount of aircraft time so overall segment costs are lower with similar segment revenue and get more segments out of the aircraft.



Exactly there has be no encouragement so hence B6 is not expanding in the Detroit market. I'm sure airport officials are not calling B6 on a weekly basis saying we want more B6 service at Detroit. Because the business model of B6 is simular to Delta which would be in direct competition with Delta as I said F9 and NK are not going after the same market. We need airlines in this market that will directly compete with the Delta business model so that we maintain a healthy competitive market here in Detroit not a market that is dominated by one carrier who can call all the shots as far as frequency and price. The airport is NOT aggressively marking the airport for new service options it is passively doing this allowing other airports of similar size to get the one up on Detroit as we see again with the Jetblue additions out of Detroit. Please don't say the Detroit Orlando market commands the same fare as the Atlanta Orlando market because that's just not true ATL on average is $100 cheaper than DTW to MCO
Last edited by klm617 on Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:26 pm

flymco753 wrote:
FI has been announcing 2 new US destinations a year for the last few years, in terms of city size, east of the Mississippi DTW and ATL are holes in their networks, so my question is, if one of the ICE2 decide to do DTW, which one will it be, and which one would benefit DTW the most?



While my guess would be WW is more likely to dd Detroit we would be much better off with FI. I am not really sure that WW will be around in 5 years where as FI is a long established carrier that being said there is a good chance that when they add a new market it's pretty much a given that they will maintain that service where as I don't think the same holds true for WW As far as FI adding two new cities this year not sure that is going to happen this year as KEF is getting pretty crowded and there may not be room for any more additional flights but time will tell. My gut feeling is DTW will get passed over again in 2018.
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:33 pm

I flew DTW-IND recently and was shocked that the flight was operated with a 757. It was a throwback to the NW days, when 757 frequented the route during peak time periods.

Sadly, the number of passengers on my flight wouldn't have filled a CRJ. Summer travel is winding down, so maybe that wasn't the case at one point.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:49 pm

I flew on that evening DTW-IND 757 flight as well and it was very empty as well. It goes out on the 10pm departure bank last ones of the evening.

I suspect it was more or less for RON purposes and highly likely the morning launch flight out of IND goes out with much higher loads. Isn't there also a maintenance subcontractor who does work on the DL 757 interior mods in IND as well?

Also, IND area schools were back in session the week of 7/31, so their summer travel season for school aged families winds-down much earlier than other northern cities.
 
compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:44 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I flew on that evening DTW-IND 757 flight as well and it was very empty as well. It goes out on the 10pm departure bank last ones of the evening.

I suspect it was more or less for RON purposes and highly likely the morning launch flight out of IND goes out with much higher loads. Isn't there also a maintenance subcontractor who does work on the DL 757 interior mods in IND as well?

Also, IND area schools were back in session the week of 7/31, so their summer travel season for school aged families winds-down much earlier than other northern cities.


I'm not certain about the maintenance, but that could very well be. In terms of load factors, DTW/IND is one of DL's weakest mainline routes, averaging in the mid-60s (granted, there's typically only one or two - and sometimes none) during the past 18 months. There's a 13-point split in the outbound / inbound loads, so the IND-DTW 757 segment likely does much better.

DL has really shrunk the 10PM departure bank in recent years. Flights to SLC, LAX & LAS did not return this summer, leaving service largely concentrated to the Midwest (plus LGA, DCA, BOS & SEA) -- as well as to LHR & AMS. The AMS flight is interesting: in the late 1990s/early 2000s, NW was building a seasonal 11PM departure bank and added a fifth, ~11PM departure to headline it. After 9/11, the 11PM bank disappeared -- but the flight to AMS did not, as has managed to last all these years even as one other flight to AMS was dropped. Today, the AMS flight is still the last (scheduled, of course) to depart, a good 30+ minutes after the previous one.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:53 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I flew on that evening DTW-IND 757 flight as well and it was very empty as well. It goes out on the 10pm departure bank last ones of the evening.

I suspect it was more or less for RON purposes and highly likely the morning launch flight out of IND goes out with much higher loads. Isn't there also a maintenance subcontractor who does work on the DL 757 interior mods in IND as well?

Also, IND area schools were back in session the week of 7/31, so their summer travel season for school aged families winds-down much earlier than other northern cities.


AAR in IND does mods for the 757s, I see them parked outside the hangar pretty frequently. Also depending on the evening you are talking about there was a large convention in IND last week, so it was likely fleet repositioning for a RON or mods of some sort.
 
compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:58 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
AAR in IND does mods for the 757s, I see them parked outside the hangar pretty frequently. Also depending on the evening you are talking about there was a large convention in IND last week, so it was likely fleet repositioning for a RON or mods of some sort.


The 757 has been scheduled for the entire summer season (departing DTW @ 10PM, returning from IND @ 8AM).
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Midwestindy
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:13 pm

compensateme wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AAR in IND does mods for the 757s, I see them parked outside the hangar pretty frequently. Also depending on the evening you are talking about there was a large convention in IND last week, so it was likely fleet repositioning for a RON or mods of some sort.


The 757 has been scheduled for the entire summer season (departing DTW @ 10PM, returning from IND @ 8AM).


Interesting, this year I have only flown the IND-DTW leg on a CRJ700 and although it was a full flight, I am pretty sure IND-DTW Is only around 20-60 PDEW so I wouldn't be surprised if the 757 goes out 75% empty, especially since there are 7+ daily flights. The morning 757 probably does okay for itself though....
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:10 pm

I also suspect that between potential for overnight maintenance, DL was using IND as a bridge for 757 aircraft and pilots between DTW & ATL on most nights this summer there was a 757 RON from both DTW & ATL

In September, the flight goes back to a 717 RON.

That said, DL soaks the O&D on the DTW-IND route with sky-high midweek fares. Midweek roundtrips are typically >$600 which is absurd for the distance/length of the flight and it falls into that range where it is very drivable, but at an annoying distance to do so for work, and too short to bother with a connection. DL definitely suppresses the O&D in markets like IND, SDF, LEX, EVV that all have industry ties, but there is a lot of driving traffic due to the cost vs. convenience of air travel.
 
compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:36 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I also suspect that between potential for overnight maintenance, DL was using IND as a bridge for 757 aircraft and pilots between DTW & ATL on most nights this summer there was a 757 RON from both DTW & ATL

In September, the flight goes back to a 717 RON.

That said, DL soaks the O&D on the DTW-IND route with sky-high midweek fares. Midweek roundtrips are typically >$600 which is absurd for the distance/length of the flight and it falls into that range where it is very drivable, but at an annoying distance to do so for work, and too short to bother with a connection. DL definitely suppresses the O&D in markets like IND, SDF, LEX, EVV that all have industry ties, but there is a lot of driving traffic due to the cost vs. convenience of air travel.


The auto industry long complained about pricing on DTW/IND -- it was one of the primary reasons they backed ProAir in the late 1990s and subsequently organized private charters in the 2000s. RT walk-up fares price around $900; employers would rather toss some cash at their employees as an incentive to make the 5-hour drive rather than shell out that kind of cash (plus the other fees associated with flying, including local transportation). Problem is, there's no easy fix: the market isn't large enough to support multiple 737 from an airline like WN, and while an ULCC like NK could attract a large number of passengers with cheap fares, the route would lack the auxiliary fees necessary to make it successful (which is why DTW/ORD previously failed).
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:06 pm

compensateme wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I also suspect that between potential for overnight maintenance, DL was using IND as a bridge for 757 aircraft and pilots between DTW & ATL on most nights this summer there was a 757 RON from both DTW & ATL

In September, the flight goes back to a 717 RON.

That said, DL soaks the O&D on the DTW-IND route with sky-high midweek fares. Midweek roundtrips are typically >$600 which is absurd for the distance/length of the flight and it falls into that range where it is very drivable, but at an annoying distance to do so for work, and too short to bother with a connection. DL definitely suppresses the O&D in markets like IND, SDF, LEX, EVV that all have industry ties, but there is a lot of driving traffic due to the cost vs. convenience of air travel.


The auto industry long complained about pricing on DTW/IND -- it was one of the primary reasons they backed ProAir in the late 1990s and subsequently organized private charters in the 2000s. RT walk-up fares price around $900; employers would rather toss some cash at their employees as an incentive to make the 5-hour drive rather than shell out that kind of cash (plus the other fees associated with flying, including local transportation). Problem is, there's no easy fix: the market isn't large enough to support multiple 737 from an airline like WN, and while an ULCC like NK could attract a large number of passengers with cheap fares, the route would lack the auxiliary fees necessary to make it successful (which is why DTW/ORD previously failed).



WN has flown DET-IND in the past but those kinds of trips are no longer what the WN business model is about. I think it's a great link for NK and being this is a NK hub they should give it a try I think it has the possibility of being profitable. Back in the day when GM had scheduled service they used to fly it with their Convair 580
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:08 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I also suspect that between potential for overnight maintenance, DL was using IND as a bridge for 757 aircraft and pilots between DTW & ATL on most nights this summer there was a 757 RON from both DTW & ATL

In September, the flight goes back to a 717 RON.

That said, DL soaks the O&D on the DTW-IND route with sky-high midweek fares. Midweek roundtrips are typically >$600 which is absurd for the distance/length of the flight and it falls into that range where it is very drivable, but at an annoying distance to do so for work, and too short to bother with a connection. DL definitely suppresses the O&D in markets like IND, SDF, LEX, EVV that all have industry ties, but there is a lot of driving traffic due to the cost vs. convenience of air travel.


And these are the things that need to be addressed in this market. Every person that drives is revenue lost for the airport.
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:16 pm

Rather quiet from the usual suspects this morning, WOW announced DTW; http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 08233.html
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kavok
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:18 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Rather quiet from the usual suspects this morning, WOW announced DTW; http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 08233.html


Must be the WCAAs fault...
 
johns624
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:39 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Rather quiet from the usual suspects this morning, WOW announced DTW; http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 08233.html
I'm sure that they will charge higher fares from DTW than the other cities just to spite Detroit flyers...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:44 pm

johns624 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Rather quiet from the usual suspects this morning, WOW announced DTW; http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 08233.html
I'm sure that they will charge higher fares from DTW than the other cities just to spite Detroit flyers...
Well ya see I just bought an RT from DTW-LGW for $300 per person for my whole family from both Tampa/Orlando and the Detroit area, I feel like I was ripped off. :hyper:
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:00 pm

Flights will be 4 times a week from DTW to KEF on WOW Air great add for Detroit

WW 121 KEF-DTW 1357 2125 2350
WW 122 DTW-KEF 1246 0050 1050

Flights effective 4-26-18
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:12 pm

I'm working on a forecast now for the DTW-LON market, so far for Q2 of next year when the flight begins I have an increase on both ends.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:41 pm

kavok wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Rather quiet from the usual suspects this morning, WOW announced DTW; http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 08233.html


Must be the WCAAs fault...



Congrats to the WCAA for being able to bring WOW Air to Detroit great job.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:21 pm

I can't believe how quiet this thread is with the big announcement yesterday of WOW Air adding Detroit guess ORD and YYZ weren't to close at all for DTW to be added and what this means to this market and what we can expect going forward should this flight become very successful. How will Delta react if at all. Would be nice to hear the thoughts and ideas of all those to claim to be "In the Know" all the time and bring their thoughts of logic into each conversation.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:25 pm

This thread is quiet? 75% of the posts belong to you here. Some of us actually are working and was flying yesterday and don't always wait around for rumored big announcements or live or die by whatever air service annoucements transpire on an internet message board.
Anyways a few points/comments about WOW announcing DTW (and the other Midwest cities)

It was only a matter of time until one of the ULCC/LCC TATL airlines started at service at DTW based on their ambitious growth plans. Not really shocked to see it coming in 2018. Now I would've been highly surprised if they announced CLE, STL, CVG and omitted DTW, but that wasn't the case.

This announcement, like most others show that a lot of times these discussions are occuring without public knowledge. Unlike smaller airports, they don't go running around leaking things to the media or other parties. I wouldn't be so quick to either scold or praise the WCAA as they may have add very little influence either way in this announcement. I haven't seen any public information about and deals, which leads me to believe that WOW will get the standard new entrant/new route incentives that are open to all carriers, but they aren't getting any other special incentives or treatment like some other airports have thrown out to lure them in (like PIT).

WOW is good in the sense as it offers another option and a new type of carrier in the market. This may open-up access for TATL travel for those that otherwise may have driven elsewhere for cheaper fares or not traveled at all. People are still are going to leak to ORD and YYZ as there are a more nonstop to more destinations and foreign flag carriers, at lower prices.

WOW is really catering to those who are price sensitive and not time-sensitive. Their schedule is not all that friendly with the very late evening arrival and departure times, the layover in KEF, and for some Europe destinations - very long connection times. I looked at LGW for example and it was a 4 hour layover in KEF eastbound and a 7 hour layover westbound.

I'm very curious to see where the ULCC TATL model evolves. It is a unique concept and will see how these airlines grow and mature. They are too new to really make any judgement either way. ULCC by nature are quick to add/delete routes and don't tend to have the same tolerance to "invest" or grow a market like the legacies. They generally let the fares speak for themselves.

I'm curious to see if these markets like DTW, CVG, CLE, STL are "dense" enough to survive the seasonality in the market. I'm sure they will have no problem with demand during spring/summer season but I'm curious to see just how well they do during the winter low season if their model is heavily reliant on price sensitive VFR and leisure passengers.

I doubt this will impact DL much as they are going after very different market segments. Maybe/hopefully this will cause some price relief but I doubt it will be much. I could see DL starting another TATL route from DTW for Summer 2018, but we'll see what happens.
 
compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:44 pm

klm617 wrote:
I can't believe how quiet this thread is with the big announcement yesterday of WOW Air adding Detroit guess ORD and YYZ weren't to close at all for DTW to be added and what this means to this market and what we can expect going forward should this flight become very successful. How will Delta react if at all. Would be nice to hear the thoughts and ideas of all those to claim to be "In the Know" all the time and bring their thoughts of logic into each conversation.


I'm not sure what you expect. As I've mentioned repeatedly, DTW is one of the largest markets in the country and one of the largest (perhaps THE largest) without low-cost Atlantic service. DTW yields in excess of 10M local enplanements; most of the markets publicly mentioned wooing the low-cost Atlantic service are in the 2M-3M range. While DTW has incumbent Atlantic services, ultimately, an airline like WOW isn't in total competition with DL; like NK, its low fares will create traffic. Ultimately, if airlines like WOW want to continue to grow, they have to consider DTW -- and this is a fact myself and others have repeated throughout this thread. Thus, that WOW add DTW isn't exactly surprising, although the timing may have been.

As far as the naysayers: for at least the past decade, there's been an inherent basis against DTW. This is because (a) the area has a negative perception, and perception -- rather than fact -- dominates in these forums and (b) MSP and CVG have long had more loyal, vocal fan boys than DTW and over the years, they've intentionally spread tons of misinformation. For example, our CVG friends continue to maintain that the only reason DL "selected" DTW over CVG was because of Richard Anderson's ties to the hub; at least once a year, there's a thread discussing 'did DL error by keeping DTW over CVG.' You know, because DL's board of directors hiring RA to pursue a merger with NW had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that DTW yields 3.5x the amount of local traffic. And who could forget our MSP friends, during the recession, declaring they hoped DTW failed so that MSP could gain the service that's "rightfully" its. You know, because DL only fries DTW-PVG because of RA's ties to the WorldGateway, not because -- as they told Crain's Detroit several years ago -- it's among DL's top performing routes in terms of producing local revenue. Like I said, this forum promotes perception over fact, which is why I only read a handful of posts by certain users normally.

Discussing DTW has long been a cardinal sin on these forums. Unfortunately, you haven't done anything to help change that.
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eaa3
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:29 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
This thread is quiet? 75% of the posts belong to you here. Some of us actually are working and was flying yesterday and don't always wait around for rumored big announcements or live or die by whatever air service annoucements transpire on an internet message board.
Anyways a few points/comments about WOW announcing DTW (and the other Midwest cities)

It was only a matter of time until one of the ULCC/LCC TATL airlines started at service at DTW based on their ambitious growth plans. Not really shocked to see it coming in 2018. Now I would've been highly surprised if they announced CLE, STL, CVG and omitted DTW, but that wasn't the case.

This announcement, like most others show that a lot of times these discussions are occuring without public knowledge. Unlike smaller airports, they don't go running around leaking things to the media or other parties. I wouldn't be so quick to either scold or praise the WCAA as they may have add very little influence either way in this announcement. I haven't seen any public information about and deals, which leads me to believe that WOW will get the standard new entrant/new route incentives that are open to all carriers, but they aren't getting any other special incentives or treatment like some other airports have thrown out to lure them in (like PIT).

WOW is good in the sense as it offers another option and a new type of carrier in the market. This may open-up access for TATL travel for those that otherwise may have driven elsewhere for cheaper fares or not traveled at all. People are still are going to leak to ORD and YYZ as there are a more nonstop to more destinations and foreign flag carriers, at lower prices.

WOW is really catering to those who are price sensitive and not time-sensitive. Their schedule is not all that friendly with the very late evening arrival and departure times, the layover in KEF, and for some Europe destinations - very long connection times. I looked at LGW for example and it was a 4 hour layover in KEF eastbound and a 7 hour layover westbound.

I'm very curious to see where the ULCC TATL model evolves. It is a unique concept and will see how these airlines grow and mature. They are too new to really make any judgement either way. ULCC by nature are quick to add/delete routes and don't tend to have the same tolerance to "invest" or grow a market like the legacies. They generally let the fares speak for themselves.

I'm curious to see if these markets like DTW, CVG, CLE, STL are "dense" enough to survive the seasonality in the market. I'm sure they will have no problem with demand during spring/summer season but I'm curious to see just how well they do during the winter low season if their model is heavily reliant on price sensitive VFR and leisure passengers.

I doubt this will impact DL much as they are going after very different market segments. Maybe/hopefully this will cause some price relief but I doubt it will be much. I could see DL starting another TATL route from DTW for Summer 2018, but we'll see what happens.


For Detroit to London, you'll want to fly to Stansted. The STN-KEF-DTW connection is only about an hour each way.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:33 pm

I’m glad soemone decided to step into the DTW market, if it proves to be successful for WOW, I expect others to quickly follow suit.
 
CVGDTWfan
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:46 pm

I think in relation to some of the posters in this forum, the WOW announcement really confirms the old saying that "those who talk the most, tend to know the least". Congrats to DTW and I look forward to seeing the success that'll come from this route. Really curious to see how DL will react to this.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:25 am

I think the next logical add is VS on MAN-DTW being that Manchester has a big Virgin customer base and the way Delta and Virgin flow passenger now from Manchester that most passenger based in the Manchester area that want to use Skyteam to the USA VS/DL are basically cut of from one stop service from a big chunk of the Delta network so a 3 weekly flight over the Detroit hub would give the Manchester customer base a lot more one stop options to the USA. It should be Virgin as they need to target the English customer more than the US based passengers to make it viable.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:24 am

klm617 wrote:
Flights will be 4 times a week from DTW to KEF on WOW Air great add for Detroit

WW 121 KEF-DTW 1357 2125 2350
WW 122 DTW-KEF 1246 0050 1050

Flights effective 4-26-18


Any idea what the equipment will be on this? I'm guessing Airbus A321 -- now if it were an A333 that would be cool :D - not like DTW has a shortage of those :P
NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:00 am

KDTWflyer wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Flights will be 4 times a week from DTW to KEF on WOW Air great add for Detroit

WW 121 KEF-DTW 1357 2125 2350
WW 122 DTW-KEF 1246 0050 1050

Flights effective 4-26-18


Any idea what the equipment will be on this? I'm guessing Airbus A321 -- now if it were an A333 that would be cool :D - not like DTW has a shortage of those :P




Yes it is an A321
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:11 pm

Glad the sky didn't fall when I was out for surgery yesterday. Anyhow, all I have to say is WOW! I assume if WW is successful, which I know they will because the Detroit region is very reliant on ULCCs like F9, NK and now WW which I think will benefit them, FI and DY would follow suit, that might trash yields but other carriers will benefit from an influx of O&D to those places like DUS, DUB, and BCN. The long layover I have on my way to Heathrow is 4 hours, on the way home it's 8, I can sit there for 4 hours but in the 8 hour timeframe I will leave and explore something in Iceland. I got family and myself coming up from Central Florida to use this flight.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
johns624
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:39 pm

You can't get all that far from KEF in an 8 hour layover. The terrain between KEF and Reykjavik looks like the moon--all lava fields. Reykjavik has a nice harborfront. The scenery gets much nicer when you head north from there.
 
highlanderfil
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:51 pm

Finally, another nonstop European destination and one I'd wanted to visit for a long time. $149 return-trip one-way fares (which, as I've checked, are not that difficult to find) are a great way to balance award travel and revenue tickets; to fly DTW-AMS-DTW (for example) on Delta costs more in miles/taxes than splitting up into DTW-AMS and KEF-DTW, even once you factor in luggage. Looking forward to my trip to England, Scotland, Norway, Faroes and Iceland hopefully next year or 2019...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:22 pm

I've never been to Iceland so this gives me an excuse to go for a few days!
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:37 pm

highlanderfil wrote:
Finally, another nonstop European destination and one I'd wanted to visit for a long time. $149 return-trip one-way fares (which, as I've checked, are not that difficult to find) are a great way to balance award travel and revenue tickets; to fly DTW-AMS-DTW (for example) on Delta costs more in miles/taxes than splitting up into DTW-AMS and KEF-DTW, even once you factor in luggage. Looking forward to my trip to England, Scotland, Norway, Faroes and Iceland hopefully next year or 2019...


Hopefully this will be just the beginning of maybe getting more of these flights. But for now I'm content we just need to show WOW Air now that they made the right choice by adding Detroit. I know it sounds crazy but NK on DTW-LGW would be amazing and I think pretty sustainable given their loyal customer base in this area with an A321.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:37 pm

NK isn't even considering TATL so its a moot point. They have more than enough domestic opportunities without the need to foray into the more complex and competitive TATL market, so its a moot point.

Unrelated, but did anyone see the DL A350 in DTW? Where is it now and when is it coming back to DTW? I haven't been following it to closely, currently in the SkyClub wondering if its lurking around the airport or its back in ATL?
 
dtw9
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:54 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
NK isn't even considering TATL so its a moot point. They have more than enough domestic opportunities without the need to foray into the more complex and competitive TATL market, so its a moot point.

Unrelated, but did anyone see the DL A350 in DTW? Where is it now and when is it coming back to DTW? I haven't been following it to closely, currently in the SkyClub wondering if its lurking around the airport or its back in ATL?



Delta flew it to Narita on the 18th. It's still there AFAIK
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:04 pm

I am going to miss the line-up of 744s, like the 3 whales currently parked over on A at the moment.

Also, after looking at the other DL widebody thread, I'm guessing that DTW-PVG goes A350 for Summer 2018.
The routes goes 77L when the 744 is retired this fall and from an operational standpoint, it doesn't make sense for it to be the lone 777 route from DTW for the long-term. Based on the number of A350s coming in 2018, its a logical next add beyond whats already scheduled through the Spring.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:03 pm

Waiting for NK to add PHX and SAN this winter, especially with F9 dropping PHX for the winter, strange.
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:21 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Also, after looking at the other DL widebody thread, I'm guessing that DTW-PVG goes A350 for Summer 2018.
The routes goes 77L when the 744 is retired this fall and from an operational standpoint, it doesn't make sense for it to be the lone 777 route from DTW for the long-term. Based on the number of A350s coming in 2018, its a logical next add beyond whats already scheduled through the Spring.


I don't recall the exact dates of transition, but four of the five flights to the Far East will transition to the 359 by early next year while NGO will remain a 332 indefinitely.

I am going to miss the line-up of 744s, like the 3 whales currently parked over on A at the moment.


It's almost surreal -- NW began regular 747 operations at DTW in April 1987 when DTW/NRT was launched (although, as was common of major carriers to major cities of the era, NW operated the 747 into DTW during the 1970s) and after over 30 years, the era is finally coming to a close. Who could forget the imagery of a pair of 747 simultaneously boarding in an overcrowded Concourse F at the Davey Terminal (I wish my younger self would've taken a picture).

And Gate 40 -- yielding a scene I've seen hundreds of times and have taken for granted -- will never be the same again:

Image
Image
Image
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:18 am

Flashback Friday!!!

Image
Image
Image
Image
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:05 pm

compensateme wrote:
Flashback Friday!!!

Image
Image
Image
Image



Thank you so much for sharing these picture. Love the picture of the "Gulf" course as it was so affectionately refereed to by NW staff. Took a flight or two out of the myself on the Mesaba Fokker, Swearingin and Dash-8
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:24 pm

I remember flying out of C, D, and F when coming in from MCO on a DC-10, 757 or 727 or my DC-9 from TPA or RSW. I barely remember what the concourses looked like besides the low ceiling tiles and the blue tile windows, nobody will forget the makeshift security post 9-11.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:14 pm

F9 must not be doing well on MCO-DTW, it's now 3x weekly as opposed to the 2x daily this winter.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
fsafsx
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:27 pm

flymco753 wrote:
F9 must not be doing well on MCO-DTW, it's now 3x weekly as opposed to the 2x daily this winter.
Because why fly in an over saturated market? I would've completely ended dtw mco if i were frontier.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:32 pm

fsafsx wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
F9 must not be doing well on MCO-DTW, it's now 3x weekly as opposed to the 2x daily this winter.
Because why fly in an over saturated market? I would've completely ended dtw mco if i were frontier.
What makes F9 want to do GRR 4x weekly over DTW? DTW is a huge market and F9 is making a mistake. I sure hope that this was a missed file and
It goes back to daily, but if not they're making a pretty big mistake, paving the way for B6.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:58 pm

Guys, the poster you're responding to is still in middle school - just ignore him.

September is low season into MCO (and the only time of the year Disney heavily discounts its hotel rate). Once upon of time you could get really, really cheap airfares but now ALL airlines, Including DL, reduce service.
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:01 pm

compensateme wrote:
Guys, the poster you're responding to is still in middle school - just ignore him.

September is low season into MCO (and the only time of the year Disney heavily discounts its hotel rate). Once upon of time you could get really, really cheap airfares but now ALL airlines, Including DL, reduce service.
F9 is going 3x daily during peak travel, Dec-April.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:02 pm

flymco753 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
Guys, the poster you're responding to is still in middle school - just ignore him.

September is low season into MCO (and the only time of the year Disney heavily discounts its hotel rate). Once upon of time you could get really, really cheap airfares but now ALL airlines, Including DL, reduce service.
F9 is going 3x daily during peak travel, Dec-April.
...and claims that "as of right now, we do not have enough demand for this route to increase the amount of days we offer it."
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
x1234
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:22 pm

I'm glad WOW AIR finally came into the DTW market! We DESPERATELY need price competition for Europe bound traffic from Detroit as big mighty Delta likes to overcharge!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:28 pm

flymco753 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
Guys, the poster you're responding to is still in middle school - just ignore him.

September is low season into MCO (and the only time of the year Disney heavily discounts its hotel rate). Once upon of time you could get really, really cheap airfares but now ALL airlines, Including DL, reduce service.
F9 is going 3x daily during peak travel, Dec-April.
...and claims that "as of right now, we do not have enough demand for this route to increase the amount of days we offer it."


Jan-May Seat Utilization F9: DTW-MCO Seats 32760/Passengers 29990= 91.54% seat utilization
Um... that looks like plenty of demand to me.... March was at 96% seat utilization and it was daily and on an A321....

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