thedetroitpole
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:54 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:30 pm

flymco753 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
Guys, the poster you're responding to is still in middle school - just ignore him.

September is low season into MCO (and the only time of the year Disney heavily discounts its hotel rate). Once upon of time you could get really, really cheap airfares but now ALL airlines, Including DL, reduce service.
F9 is going 3x daily during peak travel, Dec-April.
...and claims that "as of right now, we do not have enough demand for this route to increase the amount of days we offer it."
Can we please get along? I agree with you flymco753 my friend, Frontier is making a dull move and you are animated, which is okay. As for fsafsx you are doing no more than instigating, with Frontier reducing Orlando travel to only three days a week during peak travel, it will enable JetBlue to highly consider joining the Detroit to Orlando market because not only is there enough O and D between the city pairs, MCO can offer an array of connections, not to mention, fly the new and larger A321 to remain competitive with their competitors.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:35 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
F9 is going 3x daily during peak travel, Dec-April.
...and claims that "as of right now, we do not have enough demand for this route to increase the amount of days we offer it."


Jan-May Seat Utilization F9: DTW-MCO Seats 32760/Passengers 29990= 91.54% seat utilization
Um... that looks like plenty of demand to me.... March was at 96% seat utilization and it was daily and on an A321....
Yeah, which is why this coming March seems fishy to me, going down to 3x weekly and F9 saying there's not enough demand. I'm astounded by this decision, it only makes B6 more viable.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
thedetroitpole
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:54 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:37 pm

I am though, very appreciative of WOW adding Keflavik service. I wished they would have allowed a connection to Warsaw.
 
2Holer4Longhaul
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:03 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:48 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
...and claims that "as of right now, we do not have enough demand for this route to increase the amount of days we offer it."


Jan-May Seat Utilization F9: DTW-MCO Seats 32760/Passengers 29990= 91.54% seat utilization
Um... that looks like plenty of demand to me.... March was at 96% seat utilization and it was daily and on an A321....
Yeah, which is why this coming March seems fishy to me, going down to 3x weekly and F9 saying there's not enough demand. I'm astounded by this decision, it only makes B6 more viable.

Just because there's demand, doesn't mean there's profit.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:57 pm

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Jan-May Seat Utilization F9: DTW-MCO Seats 32760/Passengers 29990= 91.54% seat utilization
Um... that looks like plenty of demand to me.... March was at 96% seat utilization and it was daily and on an A321....
Yeah, which is why this coming March seems fishy to me, going down to 3x weekly and F9 saying there's not enough demand. I'm astounded by this decision, it only makes B6 more viable.

Just because there's demand, doesn't mean there's profit.


Well, they claimed(according to flymco) that it was cut due to low demand, not profitability. Therefore, there must be something else going on, or they just don't have the aircraft for this route...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:17 am

Midwestindy wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Yeah, which is why this coming March seems fishy to me, going down to 3x weekly and F9 saying there's not enough demand. I'm astounded by this decision, it only makes B6 more viable.

Just because there's demand, doesn't mean there's profit.


Well, they claimed(according to flymco) that it was cut due to low demand, not profitability. Therefore, there must be something else going on, or they just don't have the aircraft for this route...
That's what F9 told me directly, and to see that they're using the A321
4x weekly this winter on GRR-MCO or daily on PVD-MCO only makes me think why? Because they're competing with multiple carriers on each route, they're both longer in distance and ticket prices are cheaper, I don't see why they'd think that a daily DTW-MCO isn't profitable, but the whole demand debacle is what's getting me, they noted nothing about profit, because the demand is more than there, and it paves a way for B6, they'll easily be able to deploy a daily A320, and if they want an A321. MSP is daily, PVD is daily, ISP is 2x daily, BNA is 4x weekly, each one of these places have something in common, less demand on the route.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
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cvgComair
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:37 am

F9 makes wacky cuts like this all the time to redeploy aircraft in other areas. For instance, CVG-SFO/LAX were operating really well daily this Summer and have been completely cut when they operated at 4x/week last Winter. Or, CVG-DEN is going down to just 1x/day, when CVG is one of their biggest stations! I could go on and on for many stations, F9 operates a highly seasonal and highly volatile schedule, sometimes it seems like they plug routes into a random generator. More than likely the route is doing just fine, but F9 has decided to try the aircraft somewhere else this Winter.
Next: CVG-IAH, Delta Connection CRJ-700 (GoJet Airlines)
A319/320/332, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, ERJ-145/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:48 am

For what it is worth, according to a C-Series program pilot, the latest plan, as of a meeting last week is that of the first 14 aircraft delivered, 7 will be used out of NYC, 5 will be used in LA and 2 will be out of DTW (which will likely be the third crew base after NY and LA)....
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:59 am

Midwestindy wrote:
For what it is worth, according to a C-Series program pilot, the latest plan, as of a meeting last week is that of the first 14 aircraft delivered, 7 will be used out of NYC, 5 will be used in LA and 2 will be out of DTW (which will likely be the third crew base after NY and LA)....


Makes sense for the CSeries to come to DTW after the other 2 bases, lots of T-tail flying out of DTW.
 
compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:23 am

Just to change the direction of the thread (again)...

Image

Initial 2001 North Terminal concept interpolated over Google Earth image of the L.C. Smith/Davey Terminal -- look at all those red tails!
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:36 am

I'm glad the D Concourse is shaped the way it is now, it is built to add on both sides. What's going to happen when the old Concourse gets torn down?
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:58 am

compensateme wrote:
Flashback Friday!!!

Image
Image
Image
Image

Oh the old Concourse G bus station, also known as The Golf Course or Mesaba-land.
I have many of Saab flights in and out of there back in the day.
That was in the era that bussing operations to hardstands was common for most regional airline hub-site operations.
I think AA and ORD was one of the first to actually use jetbridges starting in the late 90's.
When the McNamera terminal opened in 2002 it was one of the few if not only hubs to have jetbridges for all regional flights, turboprop and RJs and MSP was done right about the same time as well.

Concourse G opened in 1995. What was there before that time?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:08 am

Since we are being nostalgic, I dug up a post I wrote on another board from about 10 years ago.

Like how Drew & Mike would do Memories of the Pontiac Silverdome, I bring you "Memories of the Davey Terminal".......

----
Ah yes, I have fond memories of the 'old Davey terminal. For those of you who don't remember the fun times there let me share some old stories of that place. This may bring back some other fun memories for the rest of you too.

A typical day at DTW, circa 1999-2000. <insert flashback / daydream music>
Setting: Warm, hot, humid, sunny July day, temperatures in the low 90's with about 85% humidity.
-Land on 21L on a good ole' DC-9 (probably the same one I will be on this afternoon)
-Taxi for a 15 minutes since we are at the far end of the airport and have to hold for about 10 minutes to cross 3C/21C since DTW only has 3 parallel runways at this time. (Note the runways now have been renumbered)
-Cross the runway, notice we are no longer taxing toward the terminal, and out the window you see no less than 5-6 aircraft parked on a taxiway
-Aircraft comes to a stop, you have now reached the "penalty box"
-Sit waiting for a gate for about 20 minutes, no a/c
-Finally arrive at gate C-26, the farthest gate on the addition-on-top-of addition hack job of the old concourse C.
-Since this is pre-FT era, and you are a newbie, no elite status you are in row 19, thus 10-15 minutes later, finally get off the aircraft,
-Once in concourse C which is beyond overcrowed as there 3 DC-10 flights departing to MCO, PHX, & LAS at adjacent gates. No less than about 67 wheelchair passengers waiting for those flights, no less than 114 kids in stollers, mostly going to MCO.
-Start the sprint, come to an abrupt stop in from of the flight monitors, looking for the status of your Saab flight to TVC. Since its Saab, you know that you are headed out to Mesabaland in Concourse G, aka the golfcourse. About a dozen blue screen monitors are flickering in and out, mostly covered in white snow. Just your luck, the monitor where your city should be is out. Great, sprint further down to the next bank of monitors - your flight is scheduled to depart in 25 minutes, you hope that its delayed, because otherwise you will not make the bus. It is still showing ontime.
-Knowing your destination, you break into an all-out OJ-style airport run, flying through concourse C. Good think you ran the mile in high school track.
-Already getting close to half mile, you reach the end of C, round the bend, almost taking out some Joe Tourists and their 37-member sending off party who have just come through the checkpoint (remember when non-ticketed passengers were allowed in the concourse)
-Dodge about 15 beeping carts running through the concourse
-Moving sidewalks are worthless-too narrow & crowded, keep on running, note the terminal is about 105 degrees and smells like mildew. The T-storm from the night before dumped a ton of rain and leaked through the roof. You accidently run into one of the buckets sitting in the middle of the hallway full of water.
-Now is the tricky part as you approach the epicenter of the universe-the main security checkpoint. First you get the nasty stentch of Cinnabon, they you encounter the 300 person line snaked out of the Burger King. (Just about the only food in the terminal mind you)
-Watch out, about 300 people huddled around the half-broken flight monitors inside security. You only take about about 4 people with your roller-board.
-Roadblock! Its mid-afternoon and you are approaching the end of F. You have been running hard for 10 minutes at this point, drenched in sweat. There are 4 DC-10's to Europe and 3 747's to Asia departing out of F. No less than 1500 people in a space designed for about 300. The large tour groups have gridlocked the walkway at this point, but you still manage to plow through
-The homestretch, you reach the escalor down to G, hoping that your bus hasn't left.
-Success! Fortunetely they are short on drivers, so your bus is still there running behind. You are the last passenger to jam on. You are really hot & sweaty at this point.
-Thud! Ooops, your bus driver cut a corner too short and the bus clipped a bag cart and the guy next to you falls into you.
-Finally at the aircraft, you made it. You survived, just another day in DTW.

<end flashback>
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:15 am

flymco753 wrote:
I'm glad the D Concourse is shaped the way it is now, it is built to add on both sides. What's going to happen when the old Concourse gets torn down?

I feel like we've discussed this several times before.

- Demolition of the LC Smith and Berry terminals is scheduled to start in 2018
- 4 additional gates will be added to the North Terminal once the demolition is complete and the old terminals out of the way
- This includes 3 narrowbody gates on the north end, and 1 widebody/FIS capable gate on the south side; the building envelope/shell is not going to be expanded
- Additional RON/hardstand spaces will be added where the Berry terminal stands
- Additional RON/hardstand spaces will be added where the LC Smith terminal stands
- The deice pad currently used by DCI, just southwest of the North Terminal will be expanded and possibly made to accommodate OALs from the North
- Area where the LC Smith Terminal stands could be used in the future for future expansion of the north, but nothing is currently planned at this time
- Area where the LC Smith Terminal stands is also the proposed location of a new ATC Tower when necessary, but likely in the next 5 years
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:12 pm

DL A350 N501DN inbound from NRT today, should be arriving around 11:45am.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N501DN
 
klm617
Posts: 1491
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:47 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
compensateme wrote:
Flashback Friday!!!

Image
Image
Image
Image

Oh the old Concourse G bus station, also known as The Golf Course or Mesaba-land.
I have many of Saab flights in and out of there back in the day.
That was in the era that bussing operations to hardstands was common for most regional airline hub-site operations.
I think AA and ORD was one of the first to actually use jetbridges starting in the late 90's.
When the McNamera terminal opened in 2002 it was one of the few if not only hubs to have jetbridges for all regional flights, turboprop and RJs and MSP was done right about the same time as well.

Concourse G opened in 1995. What was there before that time?


Before that concourse G was just a single level type hall way with gate areas. It was a metal shed type building the NWA Convair flights operated out of there plus the Northwest Airlink flights. I'll have to see if I can find some picture of it.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:52 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Since we are being nostalgic, I dug up a post I wrote on another board from about 10 years ago.

Like how Drew & Mike would do Memories of the Pontiac Silverdome, I bring you "Memories of the Davey Terminal".......

----
Ah yes, I have fond memories of the 'old Davey terminal. For those of you who don't remember the fun times there let me share some old stories of that place. This may bring back some other fun memories for the rest of you too.

A typical day at DTW, circa 1999-2000. <insert flashback / daydream music>
Setting: Warm, hot, humid, sunny July day, temperatures in the low 90's with about 85% humidity.
-Land on 21L on a good ole' DC-9 (probably the same one I will be on this afternoon)
-Taxi for a 15 minutes since we are at the far end of the airport and have to hold for about 10 minutes to cross 3C/21C since DTW only has 3 parallel runways at this time. (Note the runways now have been renumbered)
-Cross the runway, notice we are no longer taxing toward the terminal, and out the window you see no less than 5-6 aircraft parked on a taxiway
-Aircraft comes to a stop, you have now reached the "penalty box"
-Sit waiting for a gate for about 20 minutes, no a/c
-Finally arrive at gate C-26, the farthest gate on the addition-on-top-of addition hack job of the old concourse C.
-Since this is pre-FT era, and you are a newbie, no elite status you are in row 19, thus 10-15 minutes later, finally get off the aircraft,
-Once in concourse C which is beyond overcrowed as there 3 DC-10 flights departing to MCO, PHX, & LAS at adjacent gates. No less than about 67 wheelchair passengers waiting for those flights, no less than 114 kids in stollers, mostly going to MCO.
-Start the sprint, come to an abrupt stop in from of the flight monitors, looking for the status of your Saab flight to TVC. Since its Saab, you know that you are headed out to Mesabaland in Concourse G, aka the golfcourse. About a dozen blue screen monitors are flickering in and out, mostly covered in white snow. Just your luck, the monitor where your city should be is out. Great, sprint further down to the next bank of monitors - your flight is scheduled to depart in 25 minutes, you hope that its delayed, because otherwise you will not make the bus. It is still showing ontime.
-Knowing your destination, you break into an all-out OJ-style airport run, flying through concourse C. Good think you ran the mile in high school track.
-Already getting close to half mile, you reach the end of C, round the bend, almost taking out some Joe Tourists and their 37-member sending off party who have just come through the checkpoint (remember when non-ticketed passengers were allowed in the concourse)
-Dodge about 15 beeping carts running through the concourse
-Moving sidewalks are worthless-too narrow & crowded, keep on running, note the terminal is about 105 degrees and smells like mildew. The T-storm from the night before dumped a ton of rain and leaked through the roof. You accidently run into one of the buckets sitting in the middle of the hallway full of water.
-Now is the tricky part as you approach the epicenter of the universe-the main security checkpoint. First you get the nasty stentch of Cinnabon, they you encounter the 300 person line snaked out of the Burger King. (Just about the only food in the terminal mind you)
-Watch out, about 300 people huddled around the half-broken flight monitors inside security. You only take about about 4 people with your roller-board.
-Roadblock! Its mid-afternoon and you are approaching the end of F. You have been running hard for 10 minutes at this point, drenched in sweat. There are 4 DC-10's to Europe and 3 747's to Asia departing out of F. No less than 1500 people in a space designed for about 300. The large tour groups have gridlocked the walkway at this point, but you still manage to plow through
-The homestretch, you reach the escalor down to G, hoping that your bus hasn't left.
-Success! Fortunetely they are short on drivers, so your bus is still there running behind. You are the last passenger to jam on. You are really hot & sweaty at this point.
-Thud! Ooops, your bus driver cut a corner too short and the bus clipped a bag cart and the guy next to you falls into you.
-Finally at the aircraft, you made it. You survived, just another day in DTW.

<end flashback>


I spent hundreds of hours sitting at gate F10 when they used the 21's video taping and photographing aircraft when they used the 3s would either sit in the AA or NW gate areas would have my radio and could move from gate area to gate area if anything interesting was landing.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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787fan8
Posts: 378
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:55 am

Air France is switching from the A340-300 to the 777-200ER on Feb 19th.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -feb-2018/
Atlanta is an incredibly cool city - Andrew Lincoln
 
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flymco753
Posts: 1336
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:04 pm

787fan8 wrote:
Air France is switching from the A340-300 to the 777-200ER on Feb 19th.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -feb-2018/
I don't know about anyone else but I think this is cool, I would take a 777 over a 343 any day, what's AF's code for this aircraft? I know DL uses 777 and 77L.
s
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
hjulicher
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:26 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:26 pm

WOW's schedule for So18 doesn't seem to be fully published yet so there are just a few connections that are currently bookable. I believe that once the So18 schedule is finalized, there will be additional destinations which can be connected to with the WOW flight.
LH 442
 
klm617
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:03 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I'm glad the D Concourse is shaped the way it is now, it is built to add on both sides. What's going to happen when the old Concourse gets torn down?

I feel like we've discussed this several times before.

- Demolition of the LC Smith and Berry terminals is scheduled to start in 2018
- 4 additional gates will be added to the North Terminal once the demolition is complete and the old terminals out of the way
- This includes 3 narrowbody gates on the north end, and 1 widebody/FIS capable gate on the south side; the building envelope/shell is not going to be expanded
- Additional RON/hardstand spaces will be added where the Berry terminal stands
- Additional RON/hardstand spaces will be added where the LC Smith terminal stands
- The deice pad currently used by DCI, just southwest of the North Terminal will be expanded and possibly made to accommodate OALs from the North
- Area where the LC Smith Terminal stands could be used in the future for future expansion of the north, but nothing is currently planned at this time
- Area where the LC Smith Terminal stands is also the proposed location of a new ATC Tower when necessary, but likely in the next 5 years


There are currently 3 FIS capable gates at the North Terminal correct that will give it 4 FIS gates correct.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klakzky123
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:05 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:41 pm

flymco753 wrote:
787fan8 wrote:
Air France is switching from the A340-300 to the 777-200ER on Feb 19th.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -feb-2018/
I don't know about anyone else but I think this is cool, I would take a 777 over a 343 any day, what's AF's code for this aircraft? I know DL uses 777 and 77L.
s


It looks like AF is going to use a 777 that has been refurbished so you'll get the newer and more modern hard product. The business class product in particular is much better so its in line with the Delta One. In economy its a 3-4-3 configuration which isn't fun (especially compared to DL's 3-3-3 configuration) but at least the IFE is modern unlike the A343s.
 
josh3108
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:29 pm

Does anybody else have any oldie pictures of DTW?
 
compensateme
Posts: 2069
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:12 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Since we are being nostalgic, I dug up a post I wrote on another board from about 10 years ago.

Like how Drew & Mike would do Memories of the Pontiac Silverdome, I bring you "Memories of the Davey Terminal".......

----


Great memories!! No narrative, but I'll add some more: :
- buckets perpetually placed throughout the terminal as an interim solution to the leaking roof;
- the nasty Little Caesars next to the nasty Burger King (and it isn't $5, either);
- almost peeing your pants, given the long waits for the very small bathrooms;
- trash cans overflowing throughout the terminal;
- LONG security waits, given the single line in the tiny, cramped terminal that handled 60% of the local traffic;
- ONE stinking elevator in the terminal -- which is problematic given that the offsite parking shuttles dropped off on the departures level;
- and while not directly related to the Davey Terminal ... absolutely NO PLACE TO PARK. It's hard to believe that in 1999, during heavy travel periods, people would abandon their cars on residential streets since all parking was sold out ... and by 2002-2003, there was such an overabundance of parking that most offsite companies went under.

flymco753 wrote:
I'm glad the D Concourse is shaped the way it is now, it is built to add on both sides. What's going to happen when the old Concourse gets torn down?


It's pretty much the same design but it's the original concept drawing. The only major difference is they choose to demolish the Davey Terminal rather than renovate the existing building -- which isn't a surprise if you could remember it. They went through several other concepts over the next few years, but stuck with the first.

Hard to believe that in 2001, DTW tagged the L.C. Smith site for future 18-gate expansion, possibly as easily as 2015-2020! Of course, it's equally hard to believe that local enplanments have remained stagnant over that period.
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
KDTWflyer
Posts: 815
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:51 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:47 am

I'm not the greatest fan of Pintrest but this page has some pretty awesome stuff on it --- https://www.pinterest.com/pin/531002612291699205/ - I remember going into the Detroit Berry terminal in the 90s and being able to walk right up to the windows by the gates and watch the widebodies come and go, and there were no dots on the windows! I just saw in the news today that PIT is re-introducing non ticketed passenger access up to the gates so that's kinda cool :)
NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
 
klm617
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:50 am

compensateme wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Since we are being nostalgic, I dug up a post I wrote on another board from about 10 years ago.

Like how Drew & Mike would do Memories of the Pontiac Silverdome, I bring you "Memories of the Davey Terminal".......

----


Great memories!! No narrative, but I'll add some more: :
- buckets perpetually placed throughout the terminal as an interim solution to the leaking roof;
- the nasty Little Caesars next to the nasty Burger King (and it isn't $5, either);
- almost peeing your pants, given the long waits for the very small bathrooms;
- trash cans overflowing throughout the terminal;
- LONG security waits, given the single line in the tiny, cramped terminal that handled 60% of the local traffic;
- ONE stinking elevator in the terminal -- which is problematic given that the offsite parking shuttles dropped off on the departures level;
- and while not directly related to the Davey Terminal ... absolutely NO PLACE TO PARK. It's hard to believe that in 1999, during heavy travel periods, people would abandon their cars on residential streets since all parking was sold out ... and by 2002-2003, there was such an overabundance of parking that most offsite companies went under.

flymco753 wrote:
I'm glad the D Concourse is shaped the way it is now, it is built to add on both sides. What's going to happen when the old Concourse gets torn down?


It's pretty much the same design but it's the original concept drawing. The only major difference is they choose to demolish the Davey Terminal rather than renovate the existing building -- which isn't a surprise if you could remember it. They went through several other concepts over the next few years, but stuck with the first.

Hard to believe that in 2001, DTW tagged the L.C. Smith site for future 18-gate expansion, possibly as easily as 2015-2020! Of course, it's equally hard to believe that local enplanments have remained stagnant over that period.



Here is one for you. Visiting the observation deck that was above the E concourse watching an Overseas National DC-10 charter taxing in to the D gates before there was an international terminal.
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:08 am

Are there any good pictures of the Davey concourses?
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dtw9
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:27 am

josh3108 wrote:
Does anybody else have any oldie pictures of DTW?



Here's the Davey being built and some very early aircraft shots. Hate to say it but I flew on most of these early birds


http://www.jasonmcdowell.net/Gene-Standard-Collection
 
N415XJ
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:43 am

klm617 wrote:
I spent hundreds of hours sitting at gate F10 when they used the 21's video taping and photographing aircraft when they used the 3s would either sit in the AA or NW gate areas would have my radio and could move from gate area to gate area if anything interesting was landing.


It would be great if you could upload those videos somewhere or share those pictures!
 
iFlyDTW
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:46 pm

Sorry I havent been on as of late, I had to go to South Florida for some work.

Has anyone seen this? Its giving Spirit a good rep in Detroit.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-c ... ro-airport

Expect to see more improvements by Spirit going into the winter, I dont know what kind of routes will be added because theres been so many floating around the table the most common being San Diego.

I want to know your opinion, if SAN is added, what are the positive or negative factors that would go against Alaska? Obviously jumping on the route will halt the monopoly, and I figure the same for Hartford but thats different because theres no other airline that would do DTW to BDL. Nashville is a pretty concrete rumor at this point as well, maybe for spring next year.
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compensateme
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:38 am

iFlyDTW wrote:
Sorry I havent been on as of late, I had to go to South Florida for some work.

Has anyone seen this? Its giving Spirit a good rep in Detroit.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-c ... ro-airport


Great PR by NK but it doesn't appear many stranded passengers took advantage of it. While the Detroit media report there were about 100 passengers, NK's spokesperson said the DTW & ORD flights combined carried 180 passengers, including 140 into ORD.

Expect to see more improvements by Spirit going into the winter, I dont know what kind of routes will be added because theres been so many floating around the table the most common being San Diego.

I want to know your opinion, if SAN is added, what are the positive or negative factors that would go against Alaska? Obviously jumping on the route will halt the monopoly, and I figure the same for Hartford but thats different because theres no other airline that would do DTW to BDL. Nashville is a pretty concrete rumor at this point as well, maybe for spring next year.


I doubt SAN is on NK's radar. Consider LAX -- the past two years, NK has tried to extend LAX to twice-daily service but failed each time; the surviving flight is a redeye, departing DTW as late as 10PM and returning overnight (which generally attracts bargain hunters and supports lower fares since it's opportunistic flying).
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:30 am

As a sign of just how easy connections are at DTW: Brother and wife are en route to LHR tonight; left CLT about 45m late, pulling in with 19m to get off their 717 and get from A45 to A24. They made it. In ATL, unless divine providence had shined down in the form of fortunate gate assignments....they'd have been SOL for the night. McNamera really is as good as it gets for a hub of DTW's size.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:14 am

Here you go, the local news up in Detroit encouraging people to fly from Canada: http://www.freep.com/story/travel/2017/ ... 595600001/
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:13 pm

With recent cuts made by F9 on MCO during peak travel, both F9 and WN don't pose a threat on DTW-MCO, so with 2 dedicated and daily carriers on the route, I expect in the next couple of months, B6 will announce DTW-MCO.

F9 has drawn to 3x weekly during peak travel season, while increasing GRR to 4x weekly from 3x weekly, MSP daily, and other smaller markets daily. MCO is a strong O&D destination from DTW and I think if B6 started daily flights on the A320, they wouldn't necessarily have to rely on connections like the FLL flight.

We keep going back to this conversation but only because it's volatile.
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:20 pm

One of my colleagues attends the WCAA meetings in Detroit, he said a few weeks ago that the board increased the incentive program and the CEO of WCAA thanked the board when the WW announcement came out, so to me it sounds like the WCAA is becoming more aggressive with funding to land other services. I see that 21 seats are currently blocked for the WW inagural, the flight after has only 6 blocked, and flights after that have 2 or less, I would categorize this as weak but tax returns haven't came in yet so I'm sure some European vacations for S'18 are only in the planning phase for most families.
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eaa3
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:59 pm

flymco753 wrote:
One of my colleagues attends the WCAA meetings in Detroit, he said a few weeks ago that the board increased the incentive program and the CEO of WCAA thanked the board when the WW announcement came out, so to me it sounds like the WCAA is becoming more aggressive with funding to land other services. I see that 21 seats are currently blocked for the WW inagural, the flight after has only 6 blocked, and flights after that have 2 or less, I would categorize this as weak but tax returns haven't came in yet so I'm sure some European vacations for S'18 are only in the planning phase for most families.


Most tickets that are sold don't come with a pre-assigned seat. It means that the seat map is not a way to count sold seats. Even days before a flight that is sold out, you'll often see lots of open seats, maybe 70% of the total.
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:31 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Here you go, the local news up in Detroit encouraging people to fly from Canada: http://www.freep.com/story/travel/2017/ ... 595600001/



I read that and I was pissed. It was kind of a catch 22 this writing saying to use Canada over flights from DTW but at least she highlighted the issue. She should have called out the WCAA for not doing more to attract low fare carriers to Europe. But like what shje had to say about WOW Air being good for Detroit because of the artifically inflated fares out of DTW to Europe..
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:34 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
As a sign of just how easy connections are at DTW: Brother and wife are en route to LHR tonight; left CLT about 45m late, pulling in with 19m to get off their 717 and get from A45 to A24. They made it. In ATL, unless divine providence had shined down in the form of fortunate gate assignments....they'd have been SOL for the night. McNamera really is as good as it gets for a hub of DTW's size.


Their seats would have been given away before they made one step onto the ATL property Delta loves late in bounds so that they can use your seat for stand bys.
Last edited by klm617 on Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:35 pm

iFlyDTW wrote:
Sorry I havent been on as of late, I had to go to South Florida for some work.

Has anyone seen this? Its giving Spirit a good rep in Detroit.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-c ... ro-airport

Expect to see more improvements by Spirit going into the winter, I dont know what kind of routes will be added because theres been so many floating around the table the most common being San Diego.

I want to know your opinion, if SAN is added, what are the positive or negative factors that would go against Alaska? Obviously jumping on the route will halt the monopoly, and I figure the same for Hartford but thats different because theres no other airline that would do DTW to BDL. Nashville is a pretty concrete rumor at this point as well, maybe for spring next year.


Shame the last two rounds of flights additions didn't include one DTW route.
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ADrum23
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:26 am

iFlyDTW wrote:
Nashville is a pretty concrete rumor at this point as well, maybe for spring next year.


Have you heard anything about this? I haven't. Though I think it is safe to say it's only a matter of time before NK starts service at BNA, and DTW will be among the first routes out of it.
 
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:21 am

flymco753 wrote:
I see that 21 seats are currently blocked for the WW inagural, the flight after has only 6 blocked, and flights after that have 2 or less, I would categorize this as weak but tax returns haven't came in yet so I'm sure some European vacations for S'18 are only in the planning phase for most families.

This is a pretty absurd assumption to make for multiple reasons on your part here, considering its a relatively unknown and new carrier to the market, for air service starting six months from now, on the first day of service by a new carrier in a new markets, on a random Thursday in late April that does not fall during any school break periods.
Most people ARE NOT currently thinking about Spring/Summer Europe travel at this point in time. Plus, seat maps on an airline like WW are not a good indicator if they do not pre-select /buy seats.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:22 am

NK's universe is much more than just DTW. You guys sure talk like BDL and BNA are sure bets, but there are lots of other opportunities out there besides just DTW-specific routes for NK. That said, I see BNA more plausible than BDL.
 
iFlyDTW
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:33 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
iFlyDTW wrote:
Nashville is a pretty concrete rumor at this point as well, maybe for spring next year.


Have you heard anything about this? I haven't. Though I think it is safe to say it's only a matter of time before NK starts service at BNA, and DTW will be among the first routes out of it.
Yes rumblings are all over that itll happen soon with a dense A320. Im thinking a mid April launch with the first routes being DTW and FLL, DTW on an A320 and FLL on an A319.
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iFlyDTW
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:39 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
NK's universe is much more than just DTW. You guys sure talk like BDL and BNA are sure bets, but there are lots of other opportunities out there besides just DTW-specific routes for NK. That said, I see BNA more plausible than BDL.
Youre right, they are building up well in Orlando, New Orleans and Chicago, but there's a lot of services that can be done and I think will be done from DTW, primarily because of the success Spirit has in Detroit. I think the reason BDL is being overlooked by everyone is because its not looked at as a tourist destination, but in fact it could do well with leisure traffic from Detroit and Hartford. I think sub $100 fares will well relieve New England flying from Detroit if Spirit does a DTW to BDL nonstop, look at the influences it has done on BOS, LGA, BWI and PHL. While it might seem BWI isnt doing well, just because the fares are that cheap doesnt indicate that the route is failing because if you ever fly or wait in the gate area during the BWI flight its always consistently full. I have strong hopes BNA, BDL, SAN, and PHX will be added soon.
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flymco753
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:13 pm

I think this years wrapped up for any more announcements, DTW has all of the necessary service aside from markets that could work but airlines won't add. It's been a good year in terms of new routes, make you look forward to next year.
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iFlyDTW
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:40 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I think this years wrapped up for any more announcements, DTW has all of the necessary service aside from markets that could work but airlines won't add. It's been a good year in terms of new routes, make you look forward to next year.
I think youre right, when WOW added DTW it was icing on the cake for 2017 announcements. I thought thered be at least 1 more Spirit announcement for winter routes but that doesnt seem to be happening. In 2018 we have 3 routes to look forward to, WOW to Iceland, Southwest to Tampa and Aeromexico bringing Monterrrey back on a codeshare. I also have to highlight the 747 is coming back next year for Lufty too.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:56 pm

iFlyDTW wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I think this years wrapped up for any more announcements, DTW has all of the necessary service aside from markets that could work but airlines won't add. It's been a good year in terms of new routes, make you look forward to next year.
I think youre right, when WOW added DTW it was icing on the cake for 2017 announcements. I thought thered be at least 1 more Spirit announcement for winter routes but that doesnt seem to be happening. In 2018 we have 3 routes to look forward to, WOW to Iceland, Southwest to Tampa and Aeromexico bringing Monterrrey back on a codeshare. I also have to highlight the 747 is coming back next year for Lufty too.



Um... I'm wouldn't be too sure of that, I heard that BNA could start later this year...
 
iFlyDTW
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:06 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
iFlyDTW wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I think this years wrapped up for any more announcements, DTW has all of the necessary service aside from markets that could work but airlines won't add. It's been a good year in terms of new routes, make you look forward to next year.
I think youre right, when WOW added DTW it was icing on the cake for 2017 announcements. I thought thered be at least 1 more Spirit announcement for winter routes but that doesnt seem to be happening. In 2018 we have 3 routes to look forward to, WOW to Iceland, Southwest to Tampa and Aeromexico bringing Monterrrey back on a codeshare. I also have to highlight the 747 is coming back next year for Lufty too.



Um... I'm wouldn't be too sure of that, I heard that BNA could start later this year...
I heard BNA would open summer 2018, but if they open it earlier than I guess we could expect a pre Christmas announcement. BNA has a gate open in their B terminal and it only makes sense for NK.
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klm617
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:30 pm

iFlyDTW wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I think this years wrapped up for any more announcements, DTW has all of the necessary service aside from markets that could work but airlines won't add. It's been a good year in terms of new routes, make you look forward to next year.
I think youre right, when WOW added DTW it was icing on the cake for 2017 announcements. I thought thered be at least 1 more Spirit announcement for winter routes but that doesnt seem to be happening. In 2018 we have 3 routes to look forward to, WOW to Iceland, Southwest to Tampa and Aeromexico bringing Monterrrey back on a codeshare. I also have to highlight the 747 is coming back next year for Lufty too.


Hoping we will hear something from DL about MAN or DUB for summer 18 it's still not to late but time is running out.
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ADrum23
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Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:10 am

iFlyDTW wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
iFlyDTW wrote:
Nashville is a pretty concrete rumor at this point as well, maybe for spring next year.


Have you heard anything about this? I haven't. Though I think it is safe to say it's only a matter of time before NK starts service at BNA, and DTW will be among the first routes out of it.
Yes rumblings are all over that itll happen soon with a dense A320. Im thinking a mid April launch with the first routes being DTW and FLL, DTW on an A320 and FLL on an A319.


When would they announce this?

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