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MAH4546
Posts: 24919
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 06, 2017 9:42 pm

flymco753 wrote:
In another post, a poster not to be named strikes again at DTW, this time saying that they're surprised nobody has recommended DTW-EZE. DTW-GRU does well, unfortunately it was cut because of the economy, but if the 76W could make it to EZE from DTW it could work with a combination of auto and leisure travelers. I do think EZE could be done by DY if they came because unlike most of Latin America, there's a decent market.


A decent market between Detroit and Burns's Aires? No, there is absolutely not.
a.
 
Taco2sDay
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:27 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 06, 2017 9:54 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
In another post, a poster not to be named strikes again at DTW, this time saying that they're surprised nobody has recommended DTW-EZE. DTW-GRU does well, unfortunately it was cut because of the economy, but if the 76W could make it to EZE from DTW it could work with a combination of auto and leisure travelers. I do think EZE could be done by DY if they came because unlike most of Latin America, there's a decent market.


A decent market between Detroit and Burns's Aires? No, there is absolutely not.


UA and AA both dropped EZE-ORD, which is bigger than DTW-EZE with more Asian connections.

No chance of DTW-EZE. I would put the quote about DTW in the other thread as sarcasm given all the "DTW would work" in other threads not related to DTW.

But this is the DTW forum, so think and post what you want.
Last edited by Taco2sDay on Sat May 06, 2017 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 3586
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 06, 2017 9:55 pm

[quote="klm617"]*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0Got to love it a non hub like Boston get's a nonstop to JAX and the second largest hub in their system DTW is still stuck on one daily RJ to JAX speaks volumes really.[/quote

I guess the BOS folks pretty much have to take this whining. After all, over on that board there's nothing but whining about DTW Asian 747s.

Oh wait...that's not happening. In fact, no one in Boston even CARES about DTW.
 
flymco753
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 06, 2017 10:43 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
In another post, a poster not to be named strikes again at DTW, this time saying that they're surprised nobody has recommended DTW-EZE. DTW-GRU does well, unfortunately it was cut because of the economy, but if the 76W could make it to EZE from DTW it could work with a combination of auto and leisure travelers. I do think EZE could be done by DY if they came because unlike most of Latin America, there's a decent market.


A decent market between Detroit and Burns's Aires? No, there is absolutely not.
Than if I'm wrong back up your statement with a fact. Tell me your definition of a "decent market".
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
flymco753
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 06, 2017 10:46 pm

Taco2sDay wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
In another post, a poster not to be named strikes again at DTW, this time saying that they're surprised nobody has recommended DTW-EZE. DTW-GRU does well, unfortunately it was cut because of the economy, but if the 76W could make it to EZE from DTW it could work with a combination of auto and leisure travelers. I do think EZE could be done by DY if they came because unlike most of Latin America, there's a decent market.


A decent market between Detroit and Burns's Aires? No, there is absolutely not.


UA and AA both dropped EZE-ORD, which is bigger than DTW-EZE with more Asian connections.

No chance of DTW-EZE. I would put the quote about DTW in the other thread as sarcasm given all the "DTW would work" in other threads not related to DTW.

But this is the DTW forum, so think and post what you want.
Perfect, because that's what this thread is about, which is why I didn't bother posting it elsewhere...no need to cause a scene elsewhere.
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
flymco753
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 06, 2017 10:47 pm

chrisnh wrote:
klm617 wrote:
*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0Got to love it a non hub like Boston get's a nonstop to JAX and the second largest hub in their system DTW is still stuck on one daily RJ to JAX speaks volumes really.[/quote

I guess the BOS folks pretty much have to take this whining. After all, over on that board there's nothing but whining about DTW Asian 747s.

Oh wait...that's not happening. In fact, no one in Boston even CARES about DTW.
Your post pertains to the DTW-JAX route how?
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24919
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 06, 2017 11:12 pm

flymco753 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
In another post, a poster not to be named strikes again at DTW, this time saying that they're surprised nobody has recommended DTW-EZE. DTW-GRU does well, unfortunately it was cut because of the economy, but if the 76W could make it to EZE from DTW it could work with a combination of auto and leisure travelers. I do think EZE could be done by DY if they came because unlike most of Latin America, there's a decent market.


A decent market between Detroit and Burns's Aires? No, there is absolutely not.
Than if I'm wrong back up your statement with a fact. Tell me your definition of a "decent market".


O&D between DTW and EZE is a pathetic 9 PDEW. A decent market in my opinion is around 60-70 PDEW. That's when a nonstop starts making sense and can easily start stimulating. Caveat that certain volume markets - namely in the States that's NYC, LA, Miami, SF, Las Vegas and Orlando - stimulate more easily where effectively a non-stop flight can create the market. Seattle is becoming one of those few, too.
a.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 12083
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 06, 2017 11:37 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

A decent market between Detroit and Burns's Aires? No, there is absolutely not.
Than if I'm wrong back up your statement with a fact. Tell me your definition of a "decent market".


O&D between DTW and EZE is a pathetic 9 PDEW. A decent market in my opinion is around 60-70 PDEW. That's when a nonstop starts making sense and can easily start stimulating. Caveat that certain volume markets - namely in the States that's NYC, LA, Miami, SF, Las Vegas and Orlando - stimulate more easily where effectively a non-stop flight can create the market. Seattle is becoming one of those few, too.


It's conceivable (NOT certain) to me that ORD-EZE might come back in 5-10 years if the Argentine economy remains relatively healthy. That's about the only additional EZE gateway I see in the States in the near- to medium-term.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24919
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 06, 2017 11:44 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Than if I'm wrong back up your statement with a fact. Tell me your definition of a "decent market".


O&D between DTW and EZE is a pathetic 9 PDEW. A decent market in my opinion is around 60-70 PDEW. That's when a nonstop starts making sense and can easily start stimulating. Caveat that certain volume markets - namely in the States that's NYC, LA, Miami, SF, Las Vegas and Orlando - stimulate more easily where effectively a non-stop flight can create the market. Seattle is becoming one of those few, too.


It's conceivable (NOT certain) to me that ORD-EZE might come back in 5-10 years if the Argentine economy remains relatively healthy. That's about the only additional EZE gateway I see in the States in the near- to medium-term.


Don't forget Orlando and Fort Lauderdale. And LA is also a large market to Buenos Aires. If Norwegian ends up going to EZE, all three could happen, although LAXEZE is entering ULH territory so not sure Norwegian would be into it.
a.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 12083
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sat May 06, 2017 11:52 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

O&D between DTW and EZE is a pathetic 9 PDEW. A decent market in my opinion is around 60-70 PDEW. That's when a nonstop starts making sense and can easily start stimulating. Caveat that certain volume markets - namely in the States that's NYC, LA, Miami, SF, Las Vegas and Orlando - stimulate more easily where effectively a non-stop flight can create the market. Seattle is becoming one of those few, too.


It's conceivable (NOT certain) to me that ORD-EZE might come back in 5-10 years if the Argentine economy remains relatively healthy. That's about the only additional EZE gateway I see in the States in the near- to medium-term.


Don't forget Orlando and Fort Lauderdale. And LA is also a large market to Buenos Aires. If Norwegian ends up going to EZE, all three could happen, although LAXEZE is entering ULH territory so not sure Norwegian would be into it.


Agreed on all fronts. I had thought MCO had service. And while it's easy to underestimate Norwegian, I'm not sure they are enough of a game changer to make LAX-EZE work.

None of this means that there is any reasonable chance of DTW-EZE however.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Taco2sDay
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:27 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 12:19 am

Cubsrule wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

It's conceivable (NOT certain) to me that ORD-EZE might come back in 5-10 years if the Argentine economy remains relatively healthy. That's about the only additional EZE gateway I see in the States in the near- to medium-term.


Don't forget Orlando and Fort Lauderdale. And LA is also a large market to Buenos Aires. If Norwegian ends up going to EZE, all three could happen, although LAXEZE is entering ULH territory so not sure Norwegian would be into it.


Agreed on all fronts. I had thought MCO had service. And while it's easy to underestimate Norwegian, I'm not sure they are enough of a game changer to make LAX-EZE work.

None of this means that there is any reasonable chance of DTW-EZE however.


Exactly.

This is the DTW thread and I will respect the right of the posters here debate routes. I would guess 95% of anet posters know most of this is pure fantasy / wish lists.

DL does not hate DTW, if DL did, they would be gone. ORD and YYZ along with NYC aren't to far away with much more O&D and significantly more people.

My only concern about DTW is that almost every thread on this forum becomes a DTW topic. DL adding SEA-ORD, UA adding EWR-EZE, WW at ORD/PIT, DY DTW-LGW, etc. Some posters on this thread have become the laughing stock of this forum.

Just debate DTW here and don't take over other threads and we'll let you post DTW-JNB is $ waiting to be printed.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4664
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 12:49 am

The problem I have with these "XXX service discussion" threads is that reality goes out the window real quick.

For the record, I actually love Detroit as a city. I think that the city has given the US so much in the way of manufacturing, innovation, and music. It has THE best Arabic (particularly Lebanese) food outside of the Middle East. It is a highly underrated city that I love visiting. Id rather visit Detroit than Las Vegas, Miami, or Orlando. So please bear that in mind as I say the things below.

Detroit has to focus on its limitations and what is realistic vs. what isnt. Talk of routes like DTW-EZE are asinine. There is no local market to speak of. I can see why people might say "well DTW-GRU works, so DTW-EZE will work". Thats a false equivalency. EZE is very Florida/NYC centric with other large markets in LAX, IAH, and SFO. Even ORD-EZE is small.

Also, this freaking inferiority complex that some from Detroit push forward is annoying as hell. DL does what is profitable for DL. If that means DTW-JAX is a daily RJ thats what it means. If that means BOS-JAX has more capacity, thats what it means. Stop whining about it and realize that DTW is a major hub that plays a major role for DL. It is DL's biggest Asia hub and thanks to geography and the auto industry, that works well.

If you want to talk about whats realistic for DTW, one of the below:

-An ME3 carrier will eventually come to DTW. That will happen.
-Wow Air or Iceland Air will probably eventually show up.
-If China Southern or China Airlines work closer with DL, DTW-TPE or DTW-CAN arent that far fetched.
-Filling a few domestic holes in DL's network.
It is what it is...
 
klm617
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 1:23 am

chrisnh wrote:
klm617 wrote:
*DL BOS-JAX SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0Got to love it a non hub like Boston get's a nonstop to JAX and the second largest hub in their system DTW is still stuck on one daily RJ to JAX speaks volumes really.[/quote

I guess the BOS folks pretty much have to take this whining. After all, over on that board there's nothing but whining about DTW Asian 747s.

Oh wait...that's not happening. In fact, no one in Boston even CARES about DTW.



Why should they with their almost weekly new route announcements when DTW is lucky to get one new route once a year if that. We get more routes dropped on a yearly basis than we get added.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
JohnsonRod
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:19 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 1:27 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
The problem I have with these "XXX service discussion" threads is that reality goes out the window real quick.

For the record, I actually love Detroit as a city. I think that the city has given the US so much in the way of manufacturing, innovation, and music. It has THE best Arabic (particularly Lebanese) food outside of the Middle East. It is a highly underrated city that I love visiting. Id rather visit Detroit than Las Vegas, Miami, or Orlando. So please bear that in mind as I say the things below.

Detroit has to focus on its limitations and what is realistic vs. what isnt. Talk of routes like DTW-EZE are asinine. There is no local market to speak of. I can see why people might say "well DTW-GRU works, so DTW-EZE will work". Thats a false equivalency. EZE is very Florida/NYC centric with other large markets in LAX, IAH, and SFO. Even ORD-EZE is small.

Also, this freaking inferiority complex that some from Detroit push forward is annoying as hell. DL does what is profitable for DL. If that means DTW-JAX is a daily RJ thats what it means. If that means BOS-JAX has more capacity, thats what it means. Stop whining about it and realize that DTW is a major hub that plays a major role for DL. It is DL's biggest Asia hub and thanks to geography and the auto industry, that works well.

If you want to talk about whats realistic for DTW, one of the below:

-An ME3 carrier will eventually come to DTW. That will happen.
-Wow Air or Iceland Air will probably eventually show up.
-If China Southern or China Airlines work closer with DL, DTW-TPE or DTW-CAN arent that far fetched.
-Filling a few domestic holes in DL's network.


LAXdude, your post has way too much logic for this thread. Didn't you know it is supposed to solely deal in fantasy, emotions and lack of facts? I think we all know which DTW poster is going to respond to your thread shortly peppered with anti-Delta and anti-WCAA propaganda.
 
klm617
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 1:28 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
The problem I have with these "XXX service discussion" threads is that reality goes out the window real quick.

For the record, I actually love Detroit as a city. I think that the city has given the US so much in the way of manufacturing, innovation, and music. It has THE best Arabic (particularly Lebanese) food outside of the Middle East. It is a highly underrated city that I love visiting. Id rather visit Detroit than Las Vegas, Miami, or Orlando. So please bear that in mind as I say the things below.

Detroit has to focus on its limitations and what is realistic vs. what isnt. Talk of routes like DTW-EZE are asinine. There is no local market to speak of. I can see why people might say "well DTW-GRU works, so DTW-EZE will work". Thats a false equivalency. EZE is very Florida/NYC centric with other large markets in LAX, IAH, and SFO. Even ORD-EZE is small.

Also, this freaking inferiority complex that some from Detroit push forward is annoying as hell. DL does what is profitable for DL. If that means DTW-JAX is a daily RJ thats what it means. If that means BOS-JAX has more capacity, thats what it means. Stop whining about it and realize that DTW is a major hub that plays a major role for DL. It is DL's biggest Asia hub and thanks to geography and the auto industry, that works well.

If you want to talk about whats realistic for DTW, one of the below:

-An ME3 carrier will eventually come to DTW. That will happen.
-Wow Air or Iceland Air will probably eventually show up.
-If China Southern or China Airlines work closer with DL, DTW-TPE or DTW-CAN arent that far fetched.
-Filling a few domestic holes in DL's network.



I have to disagree I think the window of opportunity has passed to land an ME3 carrier and as far as WOW Air or Icelandair adding DTW as long as the WCAA is not willing to bend over backwards to make it happen the chances of those airlines landing in Detroit is very remote. Delta doesn't want any none Delta branded service being added to the Detroit market that is evident by the pulling of VS and the lack of a single KLM flight in this market. As far as domestically Delta is not interested in expanding this market we lose more destinations and seats yearly than we gain. The WCAA is lacking greatly in marketing this reagion to potentional new service and until that happens things are going to remain status quo.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 1:31 am

JohnsonRod wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
The problem I have with these "XXX service discussion" threads is that reality goes out the window real quick.

For the record, I actually love Detroit as a city. I think that the city has given the US so much in the way of manufacturing, innovation, and music. It has THE best Arabic (particularly Lebanese) food outside of the Middle East. It is a highly underrated city that I love visiting. Id rather visit Detroit than Las Vegas, Miami, or Orlando. So please bear that in mind as I say the things below.

Detroit has to focus on its limitations and what is realistic vs. what isnt. Talk of routes like DTW-EZE are asinine. There is no local market to speak of. I can see why people might say "well DTW-GRU works, so DTW-EZE will work". Thats a false equivalency. EZE is very Florida/NYC centric with other large markets in LAX, IAH, and SFO. Even ORD-EZE is small.

Also, this freaking inferiority complex that some from Detroit push forward is annoying as hell. DL does what is profitable for DL. If that means DTW-JAX is a daily RJ thats what it means. If that means BOS-JAX has more capacity, thats what it means. Stop whining about it and realize that DTW is a major hub that plays a major role for DL. It is DL's biggest Asia hub and thanks to geography and the auto industry, that works well.

If you want to talk about whats realistic for DTW, one of the below:

-An ME3 carrier will eventually come to DTW. That will happen.
-Wow Air or Iceland Air will probably eventually show up.
-If China Southern or China Airlines work closer with DL, DTW-TPE or DTW-CAN arent that far fetched.
-Filling a few domestic holes in DL's network.


LAXdude, your post has way too much logic for this thread. Didn't you know it is supposed to solely deal in fantasy, emotions and lack of facts? I think we all know which DTW poster is going to respond to your thread shortly peppered with anti-Delta and anti-WCAA propaganda.



I can only post the truth whether you believe it or not it's ups to you.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4664
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 1:59 am

klm617 wrote:
JohnsonRod wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
The problem I have with these "XXX service discussion" threads is that reality goes out the window real quick.

For the record, I actually love Detroit as a city. I think that the city has given the US so much in the way of manufacturing, innovation, and music. It has THE best Arabic (particularly Lebanese) food outside of the Middle East. It is a highly underrated city that I love visiting. Id rather visit Detroit than Las Vegas, Miami, or Orlando. So please bear that in mind as I say the things below.

Detroit has to focus on its limitations and what is realistic vs. what isnt. Talk of routes like DTW-EZE are asinine. There is no local market to speak of. I can see why people might say "well DTW-GRU works, so DTW-EZE will work". Thats a false equivalency. EZE is very Florida/NYC centric with other large markets in LAX, IAH, and SFO. Even ORD-EZE is small.

Also, this freaking inferiority complex that some from Detroit push forward is annoying as hell. DL does what is profitable for DL. If that means DTW-JAX is a daily RJ thats what it means. If that means BOS-JAX has more capacity, thats what it means. Stop whining about it and realize that DTW is a major hub that plays a major role for DL. It is DL's biggest Asia hub and thanks to geography and the auto industry, that works well.

If you want to talk about whats realistic for DTW, one of the below:

-An ME3 carrier will eventually come to DTW. That will happen.
-Wow Air or Iceland Air will probably eventually show up.
-If China Southern or China Airlines work closer with DL, DTW-TPE or DTW-CAN arent that far fetched.
-Filling a few domestic holes in DL's network.


LAXdude, your post has way too much logic for this thread. Didn't you know it is supposed to solely deal in fantasy, emotions and lack of facts? I think we all know which DTW poster is going to respond to your thread shortly peppered with anti-Delta and anti-WCAA propaganda.



I can only post the truth whether you believe it or not it's ups to you.


Truth has become a relative term. Emotions equal facts nowadays.
It is what it is...
 
klm617
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 2:24 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
JohnsonRod wrote:

LAXdude, your post has way too much logic for this thread. Didn't you know it is supposed to solely deal in fantasy, emotions and lack of facts? I think we all know which DTW poster is going to respond to your thread shortly peppered with anti-Delta and anti-WCAA propaganda.



I can only post the truth whether you believe it or not it's ups to you.


Truth has become a relative term. Emotions equal facts nowadays.



Corporate decisions are also based on what they believe to be true at any given time. You can't tell me with a straight face that 2 to 5 years ago there wasn't a market here in Detroit for an one of the ME3 carriers I don't believe there is anymore as that window of opportunity has passed and that there isn't a market today for either Icelandair or WOW Air to operate 4 weekly KEF flights and let's talk facts and why neither of those happened and without answers from the powers that be any response to the contrary is just as valid. None of us on this forum have the inside track to why decisions are made so we are all just speculating and why is an opinion that states why it isn't happening more valid than speculating why it should happen.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 2:25 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
JohnsonRod wrote:

LAXdude, your post has way too much logic for this thread. Didn't you know it is supposed to solely deal in fantasy, emotions and lack of facts? I think we all know which DTW poster is going to respond to your thread shortly peppered with anti-Delta and anti-WCAA propaganda.



I can only post the truth whether you believe it or not it's ups to you.


Truth has become a relative term. Emotions equal facts nowadays.



Corporate decisions are also based on what they believe to be true at any given time. You can't tell me with a straight face that 2 to 5 years ago there wasn't a market here in Detroit for an one of the ME3 carriers I don't believe there is anymore as that window of opportunity has passed and that there isn't a market today for either Icelandair or WOW Air to operate 4 weekly KEF flights and let's talk facts and why neither of those happened and without answers from the powers that be any response to the contrary is just as valid. None of us on this forum have the inside track to why decisions are made so we are all just speculating and why is an opinion that states why it isn't happening more valid than speculating why it should happen.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
JohnsonRod
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:19 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 3:19 am

klm617 wrote:
JohnsonRod wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
The problem I have with these "XXX service discussion" threads is that reality goes out the window real quick.

For the record, I actually love Detroit as a city. I think that the city has given the US so much in the way of manufacturing, innovation, and music. It has THE best Arabic (particularly Lebanese) food outside of the Middle East. It is a highly underrated city that I love visiting. Id rather visit Detroit than Las Vegas, Miami, or Orlando. So please bear that in mind as I say the things below.

Detroit has to focus on its limitations and what is realistic vs. what isnt. Talk of routes like DTW-EZE are asinine. There is no local market to speak of. I can see why people might say "well DTW-GRU works, so DTW-EZE will work". Thats a false equivalency. EZE is very Florida/NYC centric with other large markets in LAX, IAH, and SFO. Even ORD-EZE is small.

Also, this freaking inferiority complex that some from Detroit push forward is annoying as hell. DL does what is profitable for DL. If that means DTW-JAX is a daily RJ thats what it means. If that means BOS-JAX has more capacity, thats what it means. Stop whining about it and realize that DTW is a major hub that plays a major role for DL. It is DL's biggest Asia hub and thanks to geography and the auto industry, that works well.

If you want to talk about whats realistic for DTW, one of the below:

-An ME3 carrier will eventually come to DTW. That will happen.
-Wow Air or Iceland Air will probably eventually show up.
-If China Southern or China Airlines work closer with DL, DTW-TPE or DTW-CAN arent that far fetched.
-Filling a few domestic holes in DL's network.


LAXdude, your post has way too much logic for this thread. Didn't you know it is supposed to solely deal in fantasy, emotions and lack of facts? I think we all know which DTW poster is going to respond to your thread shortly peppered with anti-Delta and anti-WCAA propaganda.



I can only post the truth whether you believe it or not it's ups to you.


It's like clockwork. Like the sun rising and setting each day. Way too easy! Comical in its repetitiveness. I feel sorry for the poor DTW people on this forum who would just like to have a thread devoid of such lunacy. It is beyond belief that someone would find the need to say the same thing over and over almost every day. Quite honestly, I worry about this man's mental health.
 
alfa164
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 5:03 am

JohnsonRod wrote:
It's like clockwork. Like the sun rising and setting each day. Way too easy! Comical in its repetitiveness. I feel sorry for the poor DTW people on this forum who would just like to have a thread devoid of such lunacy. It is beyond belief that someone would find the need to say the same thing over and over almost every day. Quite honestly, I worry about this man's mental health.


He/she/it clearly has an obsession with DTW, DL, and the WCAA... and we knew a long time ago that there is no such thing as a "healthy obsession".

His/her/its brain has died... but the fingers keep on typing... :roll:
 
johns624
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 2:50 pm

JohnsonRod wrote:
It's like clockwork. Like the sun rising and setting each day. Way too easy! Comical in its repetitiveness. I feel sorry for the poor DTW people on this forum who would just like to have a thread devoid of such lunacy. It is beyond belief that someone would find the need to say the same thing over and over almost every day. Quite honestly, I worry about this man's mental health.
Did you see where he's even double posting now? I don't see why he thinks that Icelandair or WOW 4x weekly would be a gamechanger in DTW. Now he says that BOS is gaining more new flights on DL than DTW. Maybe that's because DTW is already a mature hub and DL is trying to build BOS? Nah, that can't be it... :(
This site would be much better if KLM and DC10 fans weren't around.
 
seanpmassey
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 3:45 pm

Why isn't anyone discussing the real issue that Delta and the WCAA won't take on - the location of Chik-fil-A in the McNamara terminal. It's located way out of the way down by A72. Why won't they give it space near the center of the A concourse like McDonald's has? Why is it more centrally located in MSP (middle of C concourse) and ATL (also in the middle of the C Concourse)? Why does Delta and the WCAA hate people who love good chicken sandwiches, waffle fries, lemonade, and CFA sauce and make them choose between making their connection or eating a tasty lunch? It's clear that Delta hates DTW by placing this signature ATL fast-food restaurant in such an out-of-the-way location.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(In case you couldn't tell, this post is not serious...)
 
alfa164
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 4:46 pm

seanpmassey wrote:
Why isn't anyone discussing the real issue that Delta and the WCAA won't take on - the location of Chik-fil-A in the McNamara terminal. It's located way out of the way down by A72. Why won't they give it space near the center of the A concourse like McDonald's has? Why is it more centrally located in MSP (middle of C concourse) and ATL (also in the middle of the C Concourse)? Why does Delta and the WCAA hate people who love good chicken sandwiches, waffle fries, lemonade, and CFA sauce and make them choose between making their connection or eating a tasty lunch? It's clear that Delta hates DTW by placing this signature ATL fast-food restaurant in such an out-of-the-way location.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
(In case you couldn't tell, this post is not serious...)


You don't know the real problem! It is the Qdoba scandal that matters! It is down by A72, too... why should Chik-fil-a get all the love? DL and the WCAA just don't care about Qdoba... and I have to go all the way to A72 to get a Dr. Pepper. I can get a Dr. Pepper almost anywhere in MSP.

If DL didn't order the WCAA around, I could get a Dr. Pepper anywhere... must be because Coke is based in ATL. All DL cares about is ATL... soft drinks.
:hissyfit:
 
klm617
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 6:14 pm

johns624 wrote:
JohnsonRod wrote:
It's like clockwork. Like the sun rising and setting each day. Way too easy! Comical in its repetitiveness. I feel sorry for the poor DTW people on this forum who would just like to have a thread devoid of such lunacy. It is beyond belief that someone would find the need to say the same thing over and over almost every day. Quite honestly, I worry about this man's mental health.
Did you see where he's even double posting now? I don't see why he thinks that Icelandair or WOW 4x weekly would be a gamechanger in DTW. Now he says that BOS is gaining more new flights on DL than DTW. Maybe that's because DTW is already a mature hub and DL is trying to build BOS? Nah, that can't be it... :(
This site would be much better if KLM and DC10 fans weren't around.



So everyone can be of the same mindset. Interesting concept.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
johns624
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 07, 2017 8:48 pm

klm617 wrote:
So everyone can be of the rational mindset. Interesting concept.
FIFY
 
flymco753
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 08, 2017 2:16 pm

N305DN is going to ATL Tuesday morning at 6am, I assume it will be leaving DTW and rotating back through ATL.
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6337
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 08, 2017 5:02 pm

For fun and games, I'm going to post this here for now.

A 2017 version of the defunct Pro-Air has resurfaced as a new proposed airline to be based out of DET utilizing Avro-RJ100's.

Metropolitan Airways
http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/Ann ... iewmode=on
http://metroairways.net/
 
alfa164
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 08, 2017 5:02 pm

johns624 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
So everyone can be of the rational mindset. Interesting concept.
FIFY


I never thought I would see "klm617" and "rational" in the same quotation... ;)
 
alfa164
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 08, 2017 5:12 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
For fun and games, I'm going to post this here for now.
A 2017 version of the defunct Pro-Air has resurfaced as a new proposed airline to be based out of DET utilizing Avro-RJ100's.
Metropolitan Airways
http://www.dbusiness.com/daily-news/Ann ... iewmode=on
http://metroairways.net/


That is an ambitious plan! I see two somewhat questionable issues: for an airline catering to business travel, it seems odd that Las Vegas would be one of its first destinations, rather somewhere in Silicon Valley, to take advantage of Detroit's burgeoning tech industry. And for the same reason, 128 seats on an RJ100 is very high density - hardly the layout most business people would want to fly.

It remains to be seen if anything comes of it, but it is an interesting idea...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6337
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 08, 2017 5:20 pm

Yeah they throw around business travel but nothing about that airline sounds anything business travel-esque. Doesn't appear they've done much homework or market research. And the Avro-RJ100??? I loved the ARJ-85's when Mesaba flew them, but sounds like a nightmare from maintenance and fleet support perspective.

It would be nice if something like a Lakeshore Express would come back to life:

Pick-up a few CRJ-200s or ERJ-145s on the cheap, outfit them in an all-F 1x2 seating arrangement to hold about 30-35 passengers. Flew a few niche routes markets out of DET & PTK to places like MDW, TEB, BNA. Fly weekend/seasonal service to up-north vacation markets like TVC, PLN. Fly quasi-charter flights to special events like away U of M games, Bowl games, away Lions games, MLB/NHL playoff games, etc. Market heavily via social media, and the various circles in communities that have a higher propensity to buy air service, and differentiated air service that acts more like private/VIP service than attempting to compete with the big-boys out at DTW.
 
klm617
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 08, 2017 5:51 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Yeah they throw around business travel but nothing about that airline sounds anything business travel-esque. Doesn't appear they've done much homework or market research. And the Avro-RJ100??? I loved the ARJ-85's when Mesaba flew them, but sounds like a nightmare from maintenance and fleet support perspective.

It would be nice if something like a Lakeshore Express would come back to life:

Pick-up a few CRJ-200s or ERJ-145s on the cheap, outfit them in an all-F 1x2 seating arrangement to hold about 30-35 passengers. Flew a few niche routes markets out of DET & PTK to places like MDW, TEB, BNA. Fly weekend/seasonal service to up-north vacation markets like TVC, PLN. Fly quasi-charter flights to special events like away U of M games, Bowl games, away Lions games, MLB/NHL playoff games, etc. Market heavily via social media, and the various circles in communities that have a higher propensity to buy air service, and differentiated air service that acts more like private/VIP service than attempting to compete with the big-boys out at DTW.



Can the RJ100 even do DET-LAS I think that's a bit of a stretch. I think for what they are trying to do an F70 or F100 would be much better suited. I would think the CRJ and ERJ would be too small to generate enough revenue for their plan to be worthwhile. But for DET the RJ100 is the right plane as far as performance and the short runway at DET. I think they have to attack market that are currently a monopoly by Delta and offer attractive but yet profitable pricing and it can work. DET is very attractive as far as east siders go as a travel option but lets see what the cities of Eastpointe and Warren say about this plan.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
ILUVDC10S
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Wed May 10, 2017 5:45 am

With the Crime increasing around DET Detroit City Airport I question how its going to offer secure parking and let alone overnight security since the Terminal is in disrepair and has been gutted by scrapper poachers and the runways are in terrible shape . Seriously a Avro If I am a betting man It would have to stop for fuel in what DEN I think ? Truly the only profitable service PLN can support is a SF-3 or the DH-8 the CRJ is loosing money on that run even with the APN milk run addition.
TVC Summer you could run a hour shuttle to DTW with the demand up in TVC .
Is the Fuddruckers still at the end of the C gates I do not see it on the DTW maps anymore ?
and what happened to the Online cafe in the center of A .it has a decent breakfast and cheap too I still have the 15 percent off loyalty card for that place.
Proud to be a DTW and DC10 fan
 
flymco753
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Fri May 12, 2017 3:26 pm

I just thought of something, I posted it in another thread but I'd like to post it here too. I think EK is the only option left for ME service. Etihad said they're done adding NA for a while, Qatar never puts their money where their mouth is when they say they "will" start DTW which I think is just a Delta scare tactic, so that leaves EK, the only ME airline that gets real connectivity out of Detroit.
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
klm617
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 14, 2017 12:25 am

Just an update talked to another person who is driving to YYZ to fly to Frankfurt because they can't justify the outrages fares that are being charged in the DTW-FRA market. The time for Icelandair is NOW.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 14, 2017 12:27 am

flymco753 wrote:
I just thought of something, I posted it in another thread but I'd like to post it here too. I think EK is the only option left for ME service. Etihad said they're done adding NA for a while, Qatar never puts their money where their mouth is when they say they "will" start DTW which I think is just a Delta scare tactic, so that leaves EK, the only ME airline that gets real connectivity out of Detroit.



I really believe 110% the time for DTW landing an ME3 carrier has come and gone.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
flymco753
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Sun May 14, 2017 2:59 pm

klm617 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I just thought of something, I posted it in another thread but I'd like to post it here too. I think EK is the only option left for ME service. Etihad said they're done adding NA for a while, Qatar never puts their money where their mouth is when they say they "will" start DTW which I think is just a Delta scare tactic, so that leaves EK, the only ME airline that gets real connectivity out of Detroit.



I really believe 110% the time for DTW landing an ME3 carrier has come and gone.
I disagree I think EK can still do DTW eventually over QR and EH
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
flymco753
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 3:32 am

So totally wacko but I talked to some passengers going from MCO-AMM last Thursday and they used DL and transferred to RJ at DTW, is that even ethical?
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
N415XJ
Posts: 632
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:04 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 4:02 am

flymco753 wrote:
So totally wacko but I talked to some passengers going from MCO-AMM last Thursday and they used DL and transferred to RJ at DTW, is that even ethical?

What a bizarre routing. Booking via RJ would put you with AA through ORD or BA though LHR, and a quick check on kayak gave me results with connections in JFK or IAD and FRA. Maybe they were visiting family in the Detroit area?
 
flymco753
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 4:11 am

N415XJ wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
So totally wacko but I talked to some passengers going from MCO-AMM last Thursday and they used DL and transferred to RJ at DTW, is that even ethical?

What a bizarre routing. Booking via RJ would put you with AA through ORD or BA though LHR, and a quick check on kayak gave me results with connections in JFK or IAD and FRA. Maybe they were visiting family in the Detroit area?
Nope they talked about how they needed get to the D Concourse for their Royal Jordanian flight, it was strange, but nonetheless interesting. Maybe they had something go on with AA to ORD or other places and decided to put them on DL to DTW and to AMM.
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
flymco753
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 2:23 pm

I just read some comments on PITs thread, they're looking for Copa flights to PTY.

If it can work for PIT it most certainly can work for DTW, same goes for Avianca, it can most definitely work at DTW, and I just used the front and back of a blank piece of paper to prove my point that both carriers can work and make money flying to DTW, but I'm some armchair route planner who has no clue what he's doing.
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4664
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 2:42 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I just read some comments on PITs thread, they're looking for Copa flights to PTY.

If it can work for PIT it most certainly can work for DTW, same goes for Avianca, it can most definitely work at DTW, and I just used the front and back of a blank piece of paper to prove my point that both carriers can work and make money flying to DTW, but I'm some armchair route planner who has no clue what he's doing.


PIT-PTY is a horrendous idea. It would fail massively.

If CM was going to launch a US expansion, DTW shouldn't be next in line. I dont think DTW-PTY would work.

If were talking about expansion from Middle Eastern expansion, given DTW's demographics, TK would be a better fit than any of the ME3.
It is what it is...
 
klakzky123
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:05 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 2:46 pm

flymco753 wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
So totally wacko but I talked to some passengers going from MCO-AMM last Thursday and they used DL and transferred to RJ at DTW, is that even ethical?

What a bizarre routing. Booking via RJ would put you with AA through ORD or BA though LHR, and a quick check on kayak gave me results with connections in JFK or IAD and FRA. Maybe they were visiting family in the Detroit area?
Nope they talked about how they needed get to the D Concourse for their Royal Jordanian flight, it was strange, but nonetheless interesting. Maybe they had something go on with AA to ORD or other places and decided to put them on DL to DTW and to AMM.


Were they actually on a booking that involved their interlining from DL to RJ? I suspect they bought from a website that combined one way segments together because the combined cost of the two one ways was cheaper than actual O&D prices for bookings from MCO to AMM.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6337
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 2:46 pm

PIT-PTY???? Thats about as bad as DTW-EZE. Don't believe every route on every airport's air service thread/wish-list.
 
alfa164
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 3:17 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I just read some comments on PITs thread, they're looking for Copa flights to PTY.
If it can work for PIT it most certainly can work for DTW, same goes for Avianca, it can most definitely work at DTW, and I just used the front and back of a blank piece of paper to prove my point that both carriers can work and make money flying to DTW, but I'm some armchair route planner who has no clue what he's doing.

:lol: I think you went over the heads of a few readers...
 
flymco753
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 3:33 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
N415XJ wrote:
What a bizarre routing. Booking via RJ would put you with AA through ORD or BA though LHR, and a quick check on kayak gave me results with connections in JFK or IAD and FRA. Maybe they were visiting family in the Detroit area?
Nope they talked about how they needed get to the D Concourse for their Royal Jordanian flight, it was strange, but nonetheless interesting. Maybe they had something go on with AA to ORD or other places and decided to put them on DL to DTW and to AMM.


Were they actually on a booking that involved their interlining from DL to RJ? I suspect they bought from a website that combined one way segments together because the combined cost of the two one ways was cheaper than actual O&D prices for bookings from MCO to AMM.
They said they purchased a bundled reservation through a travel site like Expedia or something I think for that exact reason, I put some pieces together and If you can get a DL RT from MCO-DTW for 210 and an RJ RT from DTW-AMM for 800 it would cost $1,010 which is not a terrible deal I guess.
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
flymco753
Posts: 788
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 3:39 pm

Truthfully if I see any Latin carrier going to DTW next it would be Volaris to GDL.
Welcome to the city beautiful.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4664
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 4:16 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Truthfully if I see any Latin carrier going to DTW next it would be Volaris to GDL.


Now that is within the realm of possibility, but given the huge amount of expansion from AM, I think other Mexican carriers are going to sit tight for a while. Thats a lot of capacity in one go.
It is what it is...
 
compensateme
Posts: 1950
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 4:18 pm

It wasn't picked up in the OAG thread but over the weekend, DL uploaded what will likely be its final schedule change for the summer travel season.

Lots of cuts during the first week of July and lots of mid-week reductions throughout the summer -- not just limited to DTW, either.
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
klm617
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Detroit Air Service Discussion Part 5

Mon May 15, 2017 4:56 pm

compensateme wrote:
It wasn't picked up in the OAG thread but over the weekend, DL uploaded what will likely be its final schedule change for the summer travel season.

Lots of cuts during the first week of July and lots of mid-week reductions throughout the summer -- not just limited to DTW, either.


Probably due to the fact it's a holiday week and the auto companies are shut down so less premium inventory is needed out of DTW . Probably not a lot of cut backs in the ATL market.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
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