Socrates17
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UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:19 pm

UA plans to eat AA's lunch in Chicago

Apologies if this has been posted before. I did look for it. This piece has a lot of analysis (speculation? - I don't know how reliable the site is) on United's past mistakes at their hub and their plans to correct them.

https://skift.com/2017/02/15/chicago-is ... -american/
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deltaffindfw
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:26 pm

Where in the article do you get "Trounce AA" in Chicago? Basically they are retooling the banks and adding some smaller cities. Doesn't sound like anything but trying to win some more market share. Nothing earth shattering in the article.
 
winginit
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:31 pm

"trounce"? "eat AA's lunch"?

It's a standard re-banking... tune down the drama kid.
 
KTPAFlyer
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:46 pm

"Until August, Kirby was the architect of American’s strategy that had it trying to match United’s Chicago footprint. But late last summer, Kirby joined United as its president, and now he has a different goal — to make United the clear leader in Chicago, and perhaps someday drive American out."

This sums up exactly why going to a competitor is a bad idea. Luckily for AA, Kirby is going to have to do a lot of work to backtrack and render his own efforts at AA useless before he can even think about "driving out American."

Also:

"and I hope to someday take over those gates that currently have the AA on them."

What has this guy been smoking!?! AA will NEVER ever give up their market share at ORD! With that kind of lead, fleet investment, network, and terminal infrastructure, AA would literally have to be on the verge of extreme bankruptcy/cost cutting to dehub ORD like CVG, and as their second biggest hub (and largest city), it would be one of the last where AA would give up gates.
 
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aloha73g
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:49 pm

Until August, Kirby was the architect of American’s strategy that had it trying to match United’s Chicago footprint. But late last summer, Kirby joined United as its president, and now he has a different goal — to make United the clear leader in Chicago, and perhaps someday drive American out.

“In Chicago, we have massive advantages,” Kirby told employees recently at a town hall meeting. “If people want to talk about our long-term plan for Chicago, it’s to grow it incredibly, and I hope to someday take over those gates that currently have the AA on them. We have the winning hand here. We should win in Chicago.”


Sounds to me like the long term goal is more expansive than just re-banking.

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kngkyle
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:32 am

Certainly some big chest-thumping from the new UA boss regarding growth at ORD. It will be interesting to see what if anything comes of it. Another interesting dynamic not mentioned in the article is the ongoing discussions with the city over new gate leases (all leases expire next year) and the next phase of the O'Hare Modernization program, which is reported to be a massive multi-billion terminal expansion. Details are still being hammered out between the city and airlines, but unlike in the past when the airlines were able to shoot down terminal expansions, the city now has a lot of leverage with the new gate leases. The next 10 years should be just as interesting for ORD as the last 10.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:33 am

Retooling banks and adding new service is one thing, but going to war with a carrier of relatively equal dominance (I believe UA is somewhat larger in market share) is something entirely different. An ensuing battle might be good for flyers, but given that both UA and AA are still somewhat in a state of flux regarding recovery and reorganization, I'm not sure that either one is in a position for a slugfest in a city they've successfully cohabitated for many years. Regardless of the outcome, nobody is going to end up with a fortress hub.
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globalcabotage
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:46 am

The fact that UA is not more dominant than AA at ORD with 20 more gates shows the incompetence former UA management. Maybe Kirby will do something, but if he doesn't think the 77W plays a role at ORD (HKG, NRT, PVG, BJS, FRA, potential BOM), he's as clueless as the previous UA/CO leadership.

UA is the joke that keeps on giving. Too bad UA and DL didn't merge. DL would know what to do at ORD and would have been a real threat to AA.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:47 am

AA and UA will likely continue to co-exist at ORD. Hard to imagine UA simply overtaking and obliterating AA completely. The fact that UA is only now beginning to explore a new approach to banking flights (enabling the IND customer to connect to LAX or NYC rather than focusing on East-West and West-East flying) is indicative of how far and deep United's structural and management problems ran pre- and post-merger. That said, UA is finally making a lot of the right moves. What it really needs to ensure it does well is have a consistent on board product, reduce delays, and provide a consistent, reliable service for the most part. If it can do that, it can go far.
 
globalcabotage
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:56 am

DL has been doing that at ATL with great success for years! What has taken the others so long to realize this?
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:57 am

ORD and the Chicago market would SUFFER if this guy could even do what he is suggesting (which is doubtful).
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quickmover
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:02 am

Reminds me of the old days of Delta and Eastern at ATL or American and Braniff at DFW.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:46 am

I've read a lot of garbage, but that is one of the most poorly written articles I've ever seen. A vague strawman with no supporting facts. Is that a reputable source for news?

This has to also be on of the most sensational thread topics ever, which is a tall order for a.net.

I mean, what do you expect Kirby to say at a rah-rah employee townhall in Chicago. However to say that banking flights it the magical solution? Good luck.

Sounds like the same competitive stuff we heard 20 years ago regarding the perceived "Battle for ORD"
 
joeljack
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:58 am

Glad to see they are changing around their banks! A guy that I know used to be a United 1K living in Chicago traveling to OMA every week. A year or two ago, United removed their 7am flight from Chicago to Omaha, the earliest flight is now at 9am. He switch to AA as they have a 7am or 730am flight and is now an Ex Platinum AA member instead. This was a big mistake for UA, lots of lost revenue for UA. Hopefully they fix this!
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:42 am

he did say the airline’s new flagship plane — the 366-seat Boeing 777-300ER — probably won’t be used from Chicago It’s too big.

Then why were there 744s in service for many years and until just recently? Sounds like he is indicting past management for poor fleet allocation.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:06 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
he did say the airline’s new flagship plane — the 366-seat Boeing 777-300ER — probably won’t be used from Chicago It’s too big.

Then why were there 744s in service for many years and until just recently? Sounds like he is indicting past management for poor fleet allocation.


Or it just means that 24 744s were too many for them.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:09 am

There is a lot of hyperbole in the article which is perfectly fine if you're talking about an Executive trying to motivate the front line team. Even if you say you're going to dominate your competitor, but only end up taking another 5 pts of market share you're gaining quite a lot.
 
9w748capt
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:22 am

Silly article, and ever sillier thread title. What nonsense.
 
N353SK
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:36 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
he did say the airline’s new flagship plane — the 366-seat Boeing 777-300ER — probably won’t be used from Chicago It’s too big.

Then why were there 744s in service for many years and until just recently? Sounds like he is indicting past management for poor fleet allocation.


Physically the 777-300 should fit just fine - ANA parks theirs at the C gates every day.
 
rta
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:51 am

I don't really know what people are expecting the article to say.To publicly announce their step by step plan on how they'll regain marketshare from AA?

As someone who flies through ORD a lot (mostly on AA right now) I think its pretty exciting that UA wants to step it up. ORD is their largest hub and they should be killing it, like AA does at DFW and DL does at ATL. Obviously thats not going to happen (in the near term, at least) but this is a good start.
 
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:02 pm

I hope that aside from more and better route planning, that the UA aircraft are updated inside and with a good edge on service also. It would seem (correct me if I'm wrong) but this would mean a lot more 737's, E170's (maybe A319/20) - and all should be in great condition.
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United_fan
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:13 pm

Coincidentally UA brought back some mainline on ROC-ORD yesterday. I seems to come and go.
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:22 pm

Interesting that this thread showed up at the same the time the "Delta's future at ORD" thread reappeared. When ten carriers split up the US commercial aviation landscape, the powers that be didn't sweat one carrier bailing on a large market, but you can bet that with only three they won't let UA 'run' AA out of town.
 
AAplat4life
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:15 pm

I think the larger question is whether AA will try and step things up a bit in Chicago. More often than not, UA flies its equipment almost everywhere that AA does from ORD, but the opposite is not true. One cannot even fly to Germany on AA from ORD, as the Star alliance has pretty much shut AA out of this market from ORD, but the same is not true as UA seems to hold its own on ORD--LHR.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:23 pm

BN727227Ultra wrote:
Interesting that this thread showed up at the same the time the "Delta's future at ORD" thread reappeared. When ten carriers split up the US commercial aviation landscape, the powers that be didn't sweat one carrier bailing on a large market, but you can bet that with only three they won't let UA 'run' AA out of town.


UA doesn't expect to run them out of town, but if they step up their schedule a bit, upgauge more flight and win a few more corporate contracts they could pick up 5 or 10 pts on AA which would likely improve their profitability at ORD.
 
lowfareair
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:42 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
What has this guy been smoking!?! AA will NEVER ever give up their market share at ORD! With that kind of lead, fleet investment, network, and terminal infrastructure, AA would literally have to be on the verge of extreme bankruptcy/cost cutting to dehub ORD like CVG, and as their second biggest hub (and largest city), it would be one of the last where AA would give up gates.


So many misstatements here:

  • AA is 2nd to UA in Chicago at the moment, and has been for a while
  • ORD is the 4th largest by passengers, 3rd by departures
  • Chicago is a distant third in both the largest city/MSA in the US, as well as AA hub (after JFK/LGA and LAX)
 
ckfred
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:46 pm

Some thoughts. First, Kirby's remarks about trying to push AA out of ORD sounds like sour grapes. Kirby had spent a number of years at HP/US/AA, working for Doug Parker. When he asked about furthering his career, he was shown the door. Now, he wants to run AA out of ORD.

This sounds a bit like Steve Wolf, who spent most of his career trying to prove that Bob Crandall was stupid for thinking Wolf could never achieve more than VP-Western Division at AA.

Second, the idea of AA bulking up at ORD was actually Parker's plan, which he pitched to the unions in order to get support for the merger. The fact that Kirby is now at UA doesn't mean that AA is going to stop growing at ORD. Parker said in a number of meetings with AA's unions, before the merger was announced, that he thought AA management had truly dropped the ball in terms of the plan for ORD. Remember that ORD had become more O&D/Upper Midwest focused, while DFW became the connector for east-west traffic.

Third, often the passenger's choice of carrier is because of a corporate contract. Unless an airline starts to trim service out of a major airport, or the delays get out of hand, the contract will be based on mostly on pricing. So, AA will still have a lot of business flying people to, from, and through ORD, if its pricing remains competitive.

One other thing to consider. Rich Daley, the former mayor of Chicago, was hellbent on getting more competition into ORD. Even though UA and AA generated so much revenue for ORD, Daley was concerned that fares at ORD were too expensive, and that more LCCs were needed to keep fares reasonable. This is how B6 got in, despite the FAA limiting operations until 2008.

After Rahm Emmanuel became mayor, he wasn't keen on AA taking over the rest of L, when DL decided to consolidate its operations with NW in Terminal 2. DL's gates were split between B6, VX, and NK.

The City would not appreciate one of the two hub carriers giving up on ORD, because it would drive up prices. Frankly, if AA were to substantially shrink its operation at ORD, the City would pitch the vacant gates to B6, and AS/VX, and NK. We know that DL wants to grow at ORD.
 
micstatic
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:48 pm

kirby may get a lot of attention lately, but he doesn't seem to be on par with some of the recent thought leaders in the industry. Richard Anderson etc. The most troubling thing I read there, was "If you aren't first you are last" This reminds me of the old institutional AA that was consumed with chasing marketshare instead of profitability. I will say that United has done a lot lately to move the sled in the right direction, however they have quite a ways to go.
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ORD2PHL
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:02 pm

Kirby is forgetting one important other fact regarding having two hub carriers at a single airport. When one airline (UA) goes through a very complicated and poorly executed merger with a smaller airline (CO), customers have alternatives. Chicago-based elites left UA in droves during the transaction because we had an alternative in the local market in AA. While expansion and growth play a role here, they have to win back hearts and minds. While AA/US hasn't exactly been roses it has been much better operationally from my experience as a EP and then GS at UAL.

Competition is ultimately good for the consumer and aggressive competition will only force both to rise.

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clrd4t8koff
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:37 pm

side question - how was Kirby able to jump from AA to UA? Wouldn't he have signed a non-compete agreement as part of his employment at UA that would prohibit him from going to a direct competitor?

Also - Kirby is quoted as saying in the article that O'hare is the only airport in the world with 2 major airline hubs. But doesn't Narita AND Haneda both have 2 major airline hubs JL & NH?
 
TWA85
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:48 pm

As stated in the article; AA and UA have coexisted at ORD for decades. If UA could drive AA out of ORD, they would have done so by now. A lot of people fail to understand that AA doesn't appear to be bothered by being in second place at ORD. As long as their current ORD operation continues to provide value for them, it'll likely remain unchanged.
 
United1
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:56 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
side question - how was Kirby able to jump from AA to UA? Wouldn't he have signed a non-compete agreement as part of his employment at UA that would prohibit him from going to a direct competitor?
?


AA doesn't have their execs sign non-competes...non-compete agreements are usually not all that enforceable as it is.
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uberflieger
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:52 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
"I hope to someday take over those gates that currently have the AA on them."

Yup, when AA moves into its brand new mega terminal on the West Side ;)

C'mon guys, this is Kirby telling United employees 'I'm now one of you'.
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winginit
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:17 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
side question - how was Kirby able to jump from AA to UA? Wouldn't he have signed a non-compete agreement as part of his employment at UA that would prohibit him from going to a direct competitor?


This has been discussed to exhaustion. Non competes are extremely uncommon in the industry, and Doug made clear that there were no employment contracts among executives at AA and thus no non-competes.
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:19 am

TWA85 wrote:
As stated in the article; AA and UA have coexisted at ORD for decades. If UA could drive AA out of ORD, they would have done so by now. A lot of people fail to understand that AA doesn't appear to be bothered by being in second place at ORD. As long as their current ORD operation continues to provide value for them, it'll likely remain unchanged.


I think if UA had a choice between competing against an airline with a similar cost structure and business model at ORD (AA) or an airline with lower costs and lower fares (B6 or VX / AS), they would choose AA. If AA were to downsize their ORD hub, AA's gates would not remain vacant, and there is no way the DoT or the city of Chicago would allow UA to take them over. B6, VX / AS, and NK would snap them up, and this would make things far more difficult for UA.
 
OslPhlWasChi
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:51 pm

Anyone have any thoughts on smaller markets that are candidates for new UA service to ORD?
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:30 pm

OslPhlWasChi wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts on smaller markets that are candidates for new UA service to ORD?


I would think the ones that AA serves now by itself.
 
815Oceanic
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:47 pm

United_fan wrote:
Coincidentally UA brought back some mainline on ROC-ORD yesterday. I seems to come and go.

As a Wegmans native myself, I tend to watch these flights. It seems as though mainline is the way for about 10 months out of the year and only during slow months like January does it go regional. It was painful to watch 2x mainline, 1x regional go to 3x E145.
 
lat41
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:54 pm

Before UA starts some smaller cities from ORD or elsewhere, they should review some of the smaller-medium cities they serve now. Besides my home airport PVD, I'm sure there are others that had suffered from changeable and ill timed UA schedules, shopworn dinky equipment, the tendency to cancel at the first crack of thunder or few snowflakes all while driving business off with non competitive pricing. Such was not always the case here but in the past few years UA has become an afterthought for Southern New England travelers. Anywhere else in the same syndrome?
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:03 pm

lat41 wrote:
Before UA starts some smaller cities from ORD or elsewhere, they should review some of the smaller-medium cities they serve now. Besides my home airport PVD, I'm sure there are others that had suffered from changeable and ill timed UA schedules, shopworn dinky equipment, the tendency to cancel at the first crack of thunder or few snowflakes all while driving business off with non competitive pricing. Such was not always the case here but in the past few years UA has become an afterthought for Southern New England travelers. Anywhere else in the same syndrome?


yes I agree. Bring back some mainline flights to places like CID, PIA, FSD etc to ORD. At the very least get rid of the 50 seaters. For us Iowans living in the shadow of ORD, AA really dominates the state by serving pretty much every major aiport (DBQ, ALO, CID, Quad Cities via MLI, DSM, SUX. UA only serves 3 of those 6.
 
IPFreely
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:32 pm

" to make United the clear leader in Chicago, and perhaps someday drive American out."...."and I hope to someday take over those gates that currently have the AA on them."


Sounds like the handwriting is on the wall. AA may have to redeploy assets elsewhere when Kirby is done. Perhaps they can resurrect the old TWA hub at STL if they can compete with WN. Otherwise MKE, IND, or OMA might be options for a new midwest hub.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:35 pm

OslPhlWasChi wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts on smaller markets that are candidates for new UA service to ORD?


Kirby gave examples himself, looking at about 20-cities from ORD from this recent thread.

United To Expand Into Smaller Cities
viewtopic.php?t=1348033

=
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commavia
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:59 pm

IPFreely wrote:
Sounds like the handwriting is on the wall. AA may have to redeploy assets elsewhere when Kirby is done. Perhaps they can resurrect the old TWA hub at STL if they can compete with WN. Otherwise MKE, IND, or OMA might be options for a new midwest hub.


:roll:

No, as has been discussed at length in this thread already, the handwriting is not "on the wall" for the alleged downfall of AA's ORD hub. Sigh.
 
chicawgo
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:01 pm

I think a lot of people don't realize how strong an O&D brand AA has in Chicago. There's no question in my mind that O&D percentage is significantly higher vs UA and I think it's very possible AA comes close to the total O&D number as UA. I know this is somewhat anecdotal data but I think it's relevant:

Up until recently, there were MANY high O&D routes where AA had more options than united. For example, to vacation destinations like SJD, PVR, CUN during winter. AA had daily and multiple dailies on weekends whereas UA would have 2-3 per week. A couple of years ago I missed a sat morning UA flight to CUN and of course that was the only UA flight. Aa had a 3pm and 5pm. It's only recently hat UA has seemed to realize this and is bulking up on these kinds of routes. EGE is another example. UA just started flying it again. AAs been doing it for years. Another example is SE Florida. UA went years without any service to FLL or PBI from ORD. Those are big O&D routes.

And on a completely anecdotal note... T3 taxi line is almost always significantly longer than T1 :)
 
Austin787
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:16 pm

IPFreely wrote:
" to make United the clear leader in Chicago, and perhaps someday drive American out."...."and I hope to someday take over those gates that currently have the AA on them."


Sounds like the handwriting is on the wall. AA may have to redeploy assets elsewhere when Kirby is done. Perhaps they can resurrect the old TWA hub at STL if they can compete with WN. Otherwise MKE, IND, or OMA might be options for a new midwest hub.


AA struggles to compete against UA/*A on many routes at ORD, especially international. Penny Pinching Parker's ongoing cutbacks could drive more customers to UA. If UA is able to drive AA out of ORD, perhaps AA could resurrect UA/CO former hub at CLE.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:51 pm

IPFreely wrote:
" Otherwise MKE, IND, or OMA might be options for a new midwest hub.


No way OMA, unless AA wants to start a massive price war over a piddling O/D. I think they're too smart for that.
 
Kilopond
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:25 pm

quickmover wrote:
Reminds me of the old days of Delta and Eastern at ATL or American and Braniff at DFW.


As well as American (=winner) and Delta (=loser) at DFW. Also, Lufthansa kicked Delta out of FRA. Continental at one time had to surrender DEN to United.

Under somewhat different circumstances American had been pulverised by Southwest at STL, Swiss by EasyJet at GVA and Malév completely by WizzAir and the other locusts.
 
Whalejet
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:40 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
TWA85 wrote:
As stated in the article; AA and UA have coexisted at ORD for decades. If UA could drive AA out of ORD, they would have done so by now. A lot of people fail to understand that AA doesn't appear to be bothered by being in second place at ORD. As long as their current ORD operation continues to provide value for them, it'll likely remain unchanged.


I think if UA had a choice between competing against an airline with a similar cost structure and business model at ORD (AA) or an airline with lower costs and lower fares (B6 or VX / AS), they would choose AA. If AA were to downsize their ORD hub, AA's gates would not remain vacant, and there is no way the DoT or the city of Chicago would allow UA to take them over. B6, VX / AS, and NK would snap them up, and this would make things far more difficult for UA.


This. AA at least occupies slots that LCCs cannot take. Anyway, it would be impossible (as discussed earlier) to drive such a huge airline out of one of their large hubs and one of the biggest cities in the US.
 
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enilria
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Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:42 pm

I've never understood these kind of chest-beating statements that inspire competitors to respond. It has to be better to quietly implement your strategy without revealing the end point, like what DL did in SEA.
 
seatback
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:00 am

Re: UA Plans to Trounce AA in Chicago

Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:25 am

As someone mentioned earlier, this is about Kirby trying to convince his new team that he's now one of them.

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