Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Bricktop wrote:Some thought it was trolling, but IMO it simply wasn't a thread that would have advanced a discussion.
That same ground has been plowed to exhaustion.
BobPatterson wrote:[...]To me, it seemed interesting as a topic and quite civil in the responses generated.[...]
holzmann wrote:Because Keesje is a troll, probably on Airbus payroll, who removes any sort of impression of impartiality this board wants to project. I personally think he should be perma-banned. It's also because of people like him that this board is a shadow of its former glory.
WIederling wrote:"Keesje does, and always has, posted PERSONAL OPINION as FACTS "
i.e. you mean something like:
"I, Keesje af Airbus, mouth piece, herewith state that ..."
Could you please post one single example thread where that is the case?
RobK wrote:One recent example is his latest A380 when he has posted that Airbus will be making an A380NG in 2021 (or words to that effect). He's (rightly) been called out by several members over it along with proof posted that Airbus has said no such thing.
Newbiepilot wrote:Differing opinions is a good thing and a sign of a healthy website. Posting inflammatory comments to draw out emotional reactions is inappropriate. In a recent thread about when Air Canada would receive their first 737 MAX, Keesje resurrected the topic after a month with a picture of the A321 in Air Canada's livery and started commenting on the cargo carrying capabilities of the A321. While such commentary can be on topic, Keesje trying to walk a thin line between on topic and trolling.
Keesje liked posting inflammatory comments and pictures just like he did or a lawn chair implying Airbus executives played golf all day at resort houses because Airbus is in such a better position than Boeing. That type of commentary reduces the overall quality of a forum that is supposed to be factual. I don't like personally attacking, but I find it frustrating when inflammatory posts make it hard to have a reasonable discussion.
mariner wrote:However provocative he may be, I was pleased to see him come back.
mariner wrote:I think he may even have been around in the Great A.Net A v B Wars centred on the A380. They were some rowdy, hectic times - the board is almost tranquil these days in comparison.
WIederling wrote:Newbiepilot wrote:Differing opinions is a good thing and a sign of a healthy website. Posting inflammatory comments to draw out emotional reactions is inappropriate. In a recent thread about when Air Canada would receive their first 737 MAX, Keesje resurrected the topic after a month with a picture of the A321 in Air Canada's livery and started commenting on the cargo carrying capabilities of the A321. While such commentary can be on topic, Keesje trying to walk a thin line between on topic and trolling.
Keesje liked posting inflammatory comments and pictures just like he did or a lawn chair implying Airbus executives played golf all day at resort houses because Airbus is in such a better position than Boeing. That type of commentary reduces the overall quality of a forum that is supposed to be factual. I don't like personally attacking, but I find it frustrating when inflammatory posts make it hard to have a reasonable discussion.
Humor, it is a difficult concept for some.
" In a recent thread about when Air Canada would receive their first 737 MAX"
wasn't that thread also about how AC should cancel all their Virgin Airbus commitments?
beam in eye or such, afaics.
holzmann wrote:Because Keesje is a troll, probably on Airbus payroll, who removes any sort of impression of impartiality this board wants to project. I personally think he should be perma-banned. It's also because of people like him that this board is a shadow of its former glory.
RobK wrote:One recent example is his latest A380 thread where he has posted that Airbus will be making an A380NG in 2021 (or words to that effect). He's (rightly) been called out by several members over it along with proof posted that Airbus has said no such thing.
Swadian wrote:Great...now this thread is going the way of getting locked, too.
dtw2hyd wrote:Keesje does good home work before starting a thread. They are very informative, and I really enjoy the details. Everyone has their own opinion and it is biased.
Lot of unnecessary discussion on what is a fact. There are no facts, just biased opinions. If you are privy to facts, you shouldn't be posting those on internet.
dtw2hyd wrote:Keesje does good home work before starting a thread. They are very informative, and I really enjoy the details. Everyone has their own opinion and it is biased.
Lot of unnecessary discussion on what is a fact. There are no facts, just biased opinions. If you are privy to facts, you shouldn't be posting those on internet.
BobPatterson wrote:LOL I don't mean to be rude or impolite, but we must not live in the same world. In my world fact are cherished (and always subject to change upon better evidence).
Without facts, and theories based upon them, there would be no airliners or aviation industry for us to talk about.
jupiter2 wrote:If he had done homework, then we would not have that topic on the 380 (again) that he started. All it is, is the same stuff rehashed with his own version of the facts.
zeke wrote:holzmann wrote:Because Keesje is a troll, probably on Airbus payroll, who removes any sort of impression of impartiality this board wants to project. I personally think he should be perma-banned. It's also because of people like him that this board is a shadow of its former glory.
Keesje does not work for Airbus, he works at Avio-Diepen which is a privately owned aircraft parts supply company in The Netherlands, i.e. does not work for Airbus, nor on the Airbus payroll.
Seems a reason to call a person a "troll" on this site is to articulate that Airbus does provide competition to the marketplace, by having competitive products. Many airlines will agree with that assertion, as the market is fairly even.RobK wrote:One recent example is his latest A380 thread where he has posted that Airbus will be making an A380NG in 2021 (or words to that effect). He's (rightly) been called out by several members over it along with proof posted that Airbus has said no such thing.
The thread title is a question "Airbus A380 MidLife Upgrade, 2021?", viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1355693
In that thread I posted a link to a 2016 Airbus FAST issue which lists a lot of the upgrades that Airbus has already undertaken, which many on this board would be unaware of. So in effect Airbus has done a lot of upgrades already.
wolbo wrote:I'd like to point out that Keesje is Dutch and therefore bloody marvelous...
diverted wrote:I never understood that about this forum. Everything ends up becoming A vs B.
WHO CARES!
I like aviation. I like airplanes. I like airports,(Minus the TSA) I like travelling. I've worked at places that fly planes from Europe, planes from the USA, planes from Canada etc. Do I have a reason to favour one over another? Heck no.
Great threads end up in a petulant name calling game. It's pathetic. We're adults here (well, most of us, though it seems the age group is trending younger now that it's a free site) act like it.
I have no problems with say, a 320 pilot saying they like the sidestick, or a 737 pilot saying they prefer a yoke. But in practice? 99% of pilots I've met could care less if they're flying an A320, 767, 787, or A380. They care more about scheduling, work rules, and pay.
It's the "aviation enthusiasts" who tend to make up the majority of the "fanboys" and a good portion of them have no links to aviation, they just like airplanes. And that's fine! But if people claim to be aviation enthusiasts, should they not be hoping for some variety in the skies? As far as I'm concerned the more aircraft types the better. I like variety. Life would be no fun if airports were just a constant stream of 737s and 777s, likewise it'd be no fun if it was all A320's and 330's.
Differences are what make people and things unique. Embrace it.
/rant
diverted wrote:I never understood that about this forum. Everything ends up becoming A vs B.
WHO CARES!