757man
Topic Author
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:59 am

BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:18 am

It's been interesting being a BHX enthusiast over the past few months - The sudden upturn in interest in EMA from GO and BMiBaby has suddenly got us all worried. EMA is only a 30min drive from BHX, and many think these new lost cost flights from EMA will take PAX away from BHX.

Now, the bosses at BHX have always tried to promote the airport as a business hub. Hence why BA and it's franchise partners have such a large network from here. The only lost cost no frills flights from BHX are with Ryanair, much like Manchester. The men at the top have seemed to look down their noses at the likes of Easyjet and Go, assuming they'll be safe because these carriers seemed to concentrate from Luton and Stansted - Not exactly on their doorstep.

However, no frills airlines are here to stay. I'm sure many assumed they'd be a passing fad, but nope, they are not. Easyjet and Ryanair have made record profits and both carriers have placed large orders for new aircraft. Bonkers Ryanair boss Mr O'Leary even stated that he'd be bigger in BA in a few years time! This may seem a bizarre statement to make, but given BA's current woe's, you never know.

Now with the low cost airlines setting up bases at EMA, BHX suddenly seems vunerable. The European network from this airport is already suffering with low loads, especially BA and Maersk Air. What will happen when Go and BMiBaby start their ops in a few weeks? Does one really think people will keep paying BA's overpriced fares? OK, with a low cost airline you don't get the same level of service, but do a few extra inches of legroom and a Gourmet meal really justify an extra £100 on a return fare? I doubt it.

So, if the MD of BHX, Mr Brian Summers, is reading this, please take note. Here are some tips for you:

1. Ditch BA. They obviously only want to focus on LHR, and when was the last time they introduced a brand new service from BHX? Madrid is over three years old.

2. Give the vacant BA slots to Maersk and British European. Though Maersk is a BA franchise, they have been very good at promoting and introducing new services. BE have a good reputation and have also put in place a good network of well supported services from BHX, at very good fares too.

3. Phone up the bosses of PIA and tell them to pull their finger out and get their flights rolling from BHX again. Daily 747's please.

4. Phone up the bosses of Air India and get them to start daily flights too. I promise you they'll be full each time.

5. Phone up Rod Eddington and shout at him.

6. Push to get the main runway extended to 3,000m - You wonder why CX laughed when you asked them to fly from BHX? Plus AA can't operate their 763's with full payload can they? EK want the 777 on the daily DXB service - Pity they can't because they'd not get off the deck before that dual carriageway at the end of rwy 15.

7. Phone up Go and BMiBaby and tell them to dump EMA and choose BHX as a base. EMA is hardly in the same league as BHX when it comes to terminal facilities is it? Plus the West Midlands has three million people screaming for more services and cheaper fares.

8. Copy exactly what the bosses at MAN have done over the last 15 years - You'll be handling 15 million passengers a year by 2012!

There, I think that does it. It's nice to get these things off your chest once in a while.
 
BDRules
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 6:31 pm

RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:26 am

EMA has no slot restriction, no curfew, terminal facilities are being updated all the time and landing fees and parking fees are a lot cheaper than BHX. need i go on? BHX can keep BA and Maersk and keep struggling while EMA can get ready for a boom in PAX numbers

BDRules
 
karliboy
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:19 am

RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:28 am

The gloves are off...the fighting begins...ding ding...!!!


LOL

Karl
 
BDRules
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:32 am

and i am going to win

ROCK ON EMA
 
757man
Topic Author
Posts: 355
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:36 am

EMA does not have the transport infrastructure. EMA does not have airbridges. It's main apron is only small. BHX have frozen landing fees for the last five years. It is linked to a mainline railway statiion. It is next door to the M6 and M42. It has good onward connections to major worldwide hubs. Daily transatlantic flights. Daily flights to the middle east. BHX's terminals do not resemble and old bus station either.

How many long haul flights does EMA have? A seasonal Air 2000 767 charter flight to Orlando via Belfast? Oh really. Oh dear. BHX has up to five Orlando flights on just one summer weekend - Direct.

 
karliboy
Posts: 253
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:51 am

anything to add BDRules?????


 
karliboy
Posts: 253
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:52 am

BTW does anyone know AMM's flight program from BHX this summer yet????


Karl
 
mailboxb1
Posts: 14
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:52 am

Please lets not get into a my Dads bigger and better than yours argument.

Regards

Adam
 
chrisEMA
Posts: 45
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:52 am

Seeing as I live close to East Midlands (not too far from BHX either), it's naturally very interesting to see the arrival of 'no frills' carriers at EMA.

Unfortunately, it has to be said that it is not totally fair to condem the terminal facilities at EMA. Yes, they are now much better at Birmingham (at least you can see out of some windows in the main terminal), but I personally do not rate the current parking arrangements, crowded terminal and arrogant staff problem at BHX. Of course, that's just based on my experiences! Surely, the fact that both these airports are right alongside major motorways and quite close geographically means that there is perhaps less reason to worry about just where these 'low cost' carriers operate from?? It's fair to say that there are currently more overseas connections at BHX plus it's a 'bigger' more 'important' airport, but seeing as half or more of the pax on the new carriers will surely start from the UK - what does it matter??

I'm due to fly BA/QF to Perth, all over Oz, all over NZ and then home through Seattle later this year. Shame that I can't fly from BHX or EMA! That would be nice!

Our local newspapers are full of articles about lobbies of locals trying to ban night flights at EMA. Seeing as these night flights include many 727s and widebodies, it's not suprising that a shift to more 'quiet' and 'friendly' 737s might please the moaners! I personally love to hear the A300s roar over at 2am - but then, I'm in a minority!!

As for Maersk, well I flew with them 2 years ago to Amsterdam and thought that they were very poor. I made the same flight from EMA with BMI last year and was much more impressed. In fact, the outbound flight was sub-chartered to Titan. Now that was good! In fact, a close friend of mine is a boss for them down at Stanstead and helps run a fantastic little airline. He told me that he would forward my remarks to his friends at Maersk!

The last word must go to British European, who are indeed a reasonably good company. I couldn't fault them on my buisness trip to Jersey and Guernsey last year. Comfortable 146s with hot coffee and bacon sanwiches all round! What I didn't approve of was the fact that they had to remote stand at BHX with the bus transfer and terminal hassle taking (seemingly) as long as the flight. With a light and airy terminal, huge car park, extended runway and position right alongside the M1 motorway, I'm not suprised that EMA is getting bigger.

Well, whatever, it's good to have 2 expanding airports here in the heart of the country!
 
karliboy
Posts: 253
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:56 am

i mean which aircraft are they basing at BHX (oh ok then..at EMA too) and which aircraft (to be precise) will be on the ACE run on thursday mornings?

thanks

Karl
 
mailboxb1
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:04 am

The trouble with East Midlands Airport is the name, nobody outside of the country actually knows where it is
and only a handfull of people in the country can say that it is somewhere near Derby or Nottingham.

Regards

Adam
 
757man
Topic Author
Posts: 355
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:04 am

ChrisEMA
Good post, I agree with your points about the attitude of staff at BHX. Though the parking has improved with the arrival of more surface car parks and a bloody big short stay multi storey. Most of my comments regarding EMA were meant as a joke - I've been to this airport quite a few times and the terminal is much better than it used to be.

Karliboy
As far as I know, AMM will be operating X2 757's and X1 767-300's at BHX for the Summer 2002 season. This is subject to change of course.
 
karliboy
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:08 am

why does BHX still have such big surface carparks when the space could be utilised more efficiently by terminal or taxiway expansion (or something totally different!)

regards

Karl

p.s. you don't find surface carparks at major airports usually!!
 
dan330
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:13 am

Overall EMA isn't a bad little airport. OK the terminal needs a lot of work, especially the baggage reclaim bit and the pub with wooden outdoor seats (inside)!
The road network around EMA is fantastic and there is due to be a train station built close by.
BHX is also a very good airport, the terminal building is excellent now, but the size of the runway lets it down.

Mailboxb1 - and Leicester!

Isn't the AMM EMA-Orlando flight going to be direct this year?
 
757man
Topic Author
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:14 am

Looking at the blueprints for BHX, the main surface car park will be a thing of the past by 2015. A new terminal is due to be built on the one that runs next to T2 Eurohub. Both LGW and LHR have big surface car parks - LGW has one that is supposed to be the largest open space car park in Europe. Though if BA pullout, I think the apron area will be put to good use as a car park  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
chrisEMA
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:21 am

757man,

good thing about the car parks!

One good thing that I didn't mention is that both airports have excellent spotting facilities etc (albeit behind glass in the terminals). I have yet to see the new visitors centre at BHX, but it's nice to have the aeropark at EMA as well as the planned nature trails and picnic sites around the perimeter. Good too to have the excellent aviation shops at BHX and EMA. I have parted with much hard earned cash at the latter!

Going back to my future trip down-under, should I expect to be dissapointed with BA/QF after many, many flights with Air New Zealand? Also, it's ironic that hundreds of folk travel to BHX and EMA to pick up Flightlink coaches to take them to Heathrow or Gatwick. What a shame that there is such little chance to depart long haul from the midlands. Or failing that, would there ever be a demand for a commuter flight from here in the midlands to London. Now that would be a novelty!!

cheers,

Chris
 
David_itl
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:26 am


I'm afraid MAN has also been too benevolent to BA therefore PLEASE DON'T copy the MAN management decisions!

We'd also love Air India back here....hopefully with 747s are they wanted to operate originally; the 4 weekly A310s averaged something like 70 to 75% loads. Imagine if you will, the day when the combined BHX & MAN Indian and Pakistani services obliterate the LHR services!

As for Emirates, believe me the BHX route will remain A330 based for the next year or two because it will have to be upgraded from a daily A330 low density to a daily A330 high density.

Whereas dear old MAN is waiting patienty, so patiently, for a 2nd daily service: I am led to believe that 95% loads were experienced in December. EEEK! We need 777s now and not intermittently, though it is slated for the summer (if we have one in MAN  Wink/being sarcastic)

David/MAN
 
mailboxb1
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:26 am

Dan330 - Sorry Leicester as well

Looking in a few brochures for summer 2002 for flights to Florida, it appears First Choice have dropped EMA -SFB.

Regards

Adam
 
757man
Topic Author
Posts: 355
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:43 am

I don't see what all the fuss is about EK flying 777's out of BHX anyway - I'm more than happy to see the daily A330 - They're not that much smaller than the 777 in terms of length and wingspan.

Still think BHX should tell BA to bugger off - they've ruined the airport is some respects. They can stick their shiny new A319's up where the sun don't shine.
 
757man
Topic Author
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ChrisEMA

Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:56 am

Funny you should mention a commuter service from the Midlands to London.

British Midland (as they were once called!) used to fly a daily ATP lunchtime service from BHX to LHR in the late 1980's, though the Shorts 360 was often used too. Alas, the service ended by around 1989/1990. Not sure how good the loads were. Brymon Airways (before it's BA days) also used to fly a daily Twin Otter service from BHX to LGW - Again this service ended at about the same time as the BM one. I would have loved to have flown on a Twin Otter.....

Many people actually travelling to Oz and NZ will fly from either BHX or EMA to somewhere like DXB and AMS and make their onward journeys from these hubs.
 
chrisEMA
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RE: ChrisEMA

Wed Feb 13, 2002 5:03 am

Have to fly from LHR this time since the Seattle BA services are, I think, to London only. Well, the tickets are booked now!

We are due to fly to Zakinthos in June with Britannia. Since they have more services from BHX, they have much better timings too! So, I have made an important choice in favour of Birmingham on that one!

As for London flights - if we keep having rail strikes and congestion on the motorways keeping at its current rate, then who knows what the next 10 years will bring!

cheers,

Chris
 
Billy
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 5:09 am

What you all fail to understand is that these airports are run as businesses. The low cost airlines really screw airports on charges. They make it really tough to make money out of their business. Ask MAN how much they make from their FR service. Although BA does not provide tons of passengers, it does pay its bills at full tariff.

Believe me, EMA will have paid dearly for these BMI and Go flights.
 
gkirk
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 5:58 am

This BHX Vs EMA/MAN fight was getting pretty interesting  Smile
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Skymonster
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 6:24 am

What you pro-Birmingham guys aren't acknowledging is that EMA is in a much better position to take advantage of the low cost boom:

* Well connected to the UK motorway network
* Nice long runway, underutilised, not flow control / slot issues
* Plenty of ramp space during the day
* Terminal with some room for expansion - further baggage reclaim underway
* Not too much past investment in terminal infrastructure which needs to be recovered (unlike BHX) through high charges
* Room for expansion
* Large population base that is considerably further from other low cost bases than Birmingham
* Low cost airlines don't want air bridges (both Go and BMIBaby have specifically asked for remote stands to avoid even push-back costs) and fancy facilities
* Low cost airlines don't want / don't offer interline or connections, so the scope of existing services from EMA is irrelevent
* A management that was prepared to deal on landing fees, which will to an extent will be recoved in greater revenue from parking and concessions, etc.

I understand the expectation is that EMA will pull around a quarter of a million pax out of Birmingham. That's fine Big grin

A
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
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Crosswind
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 6:31 am

I think the increased presence of low-cost airlines could be very dangerous for airports like Manchester, and Birmingham.

Most European services from these airports are operated by smaller aircraft types such as the B737-500, BAe146, ERJ-145, CRJ etc.

At the moment the full service airlines provide a reasonable network coverage, at a reasonable frequency catering for both point-to-point and hub transfer passengers to places like Amsterdam and Paris.

However, there is always the persistant problem of yield on MAN/BHX routes. You can usually fill the planes at Y class fares, but there are a lack of C class passengers. As a result flights tend to be successful in terms of passenger numbers, but not in terms of profits. As a result any downturn in the economic climate, or passenger traffic will result in airlines taking a hard look at whether serving MAN/BHX is worth it when they already have X flights to LHR/LGW.

So the situation as it stands; Reasonable networks that have suffered some cutbacks in the last 6 months, and face further reductions mainly from British Airways in the months ahead as they donwsize to RJs on many routes, such as MAN-CDG which goes from a B737 to a mainly BAe146 service this summer.

Now the low cost airlines come in.

Are they going to provide connections to the major hubs for transfer passengers? No.

Are they going to provide point to point service for business travellers to cities accross Europe? No

Are they going to cherry pick the profitable, high-volume destinations, at the expense of incumbent carriers? Yes

If low cost airlines established a significant presence at MAN/BHX there would be capacity and frequency reductions the routes they start to places like Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt - probably down to RJ service at reduced frequencies. As evidenced by the effect of easyJet on British Airways MAN-AMS flights; low-cost gets nearly all point-to-point traffic, incumbent gets transfer traffic - if you have very little transfer traffic from that destination, you have very little traffic.

After a relatively short period of time when the low fare carriers are established, you will probably see a very different network. High frequency flights to a relatively small number of destinations by low-cost airlines, mainly serving tertiary airports. Established carriers concentrating on their hub routes with smaller aircraft. Destinations such as Rotterdam, Oslo, Oporto, Prague, Vienna, Lyon, Stuttgart, Berlin will probably be gone - many passenger who previously have travelled to those destinations will be drawn onto alternative low-cost routes.

While low-cost airlines would increase passenger numbers at MAN/BHX, as Billy said the would reduce profits for the airport. They would hurt existing carriers, causing route withdrawals and capacity reductions. They would reduce the range of point-to-point secondary routes primarily catering for the business traveller.

Low cost carriers can be the saviour of airports like Luton, Prestwick and Standsted. But they can be very dangerous for medium sized airports; just look at routes where low-cost competition exists, not even from the same airport such as MAN/LPL-BFS and MAN/LPL-AMS and the effect on existing flights. It's about to occur at BHX where bmibaby/Go flights overlap existing BHX routes.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
mailboxb1
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:05 am

With the routes that GO and BMIBaby are going to serve
this coming March onwards are the likes of Brittania,Air 2000 and the likes going to suffer at EMA.
 
gkirk
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:12 am

I wouldnt think so Mailboxb1, BY AMM etc serve IT companies whereas No-frills are flight-only so, I supose it would affect those flying flight-only but...err..I got mixed up.
It shouldnt hit BY,AMM,AIH that badly.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
mailboxb1
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:19 am

Cheers GKirk but what about the flights from Glasgow and Edingburgh, I just can't see business men flying down into East Mids and then treking into Birmingham City Centre and surrounding areas.I can only see BMI losing out to itself and Go, OK BA is expensive to fly but BE have some great one way and return fares from BHX at the moment.
 
gkirk
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:25 am

Err...probably a lot of leisure pax on Go GLA-EMA and EDI-EMA, or the other way round anyway, but this is about BHX so...

BA and BE might be affected so they might have to cut frequency to BHX.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
David_itl
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 8:29 am



It's a poor do if the "frills" airlines can't make money on 70% loads when other airlines can. MAN has got the problem of LHR connections and BHX the problem of nearness to LHR. Both have the duel problem of BA and the pathetic attempt they have at servicing the regions properly. All they are concerned about is to make sure these club class passengers don't venture anywhere other than on their LHR services.

I pray that LHR remains constrained by slots and that BA will have to alleviate the problems they have brought upon themselves by, shock horror, introducing services from the regions! If Lufthansa can make a go of two long-haul hubs, then why the hell can't BA with either BHX or MAN? Both have excellent domestic services and rail links.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the club class passengers from MAN and BHX aren't gullible people like the South Easterners appear to be and do actually travel on economy fares; I know of at least 1 person who does that: my uncle who works in for an insurance company that has got the biggest building in Manchester. His postion allows him to travel club class but instead he flies in economy with his wife, with the combined fare LESS than the club class fare.

David/MAN
 
AndyEastMids
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 8:50 pm

Mailbox1,

There is some concern over the charter carriers positions at EMA. Whilst Go and BMIBaby won't impact the inclusive tour part of the charter carrier business, the growth in seat only sales because of the increase in villa and timeshare ownership, and the convenience of the internet booking systems ,of Go and BMIBaby may well have an impact on Britannia, Airtours, JMC, etc.

I also think you underestimate the impact of the low fare operators on the business market. You only need to look at EasyJet's service from Glasgow to Luton (yes, I've flown that) and you'll see a high proportion of passengers in business attire, especially early morning and evening. Many companies are cost concious these days, and with published fares between BHX/EMA and GLA/EDI running at around £300 for peak travel, there are substantial savings that businesses can make. It may not be the large corporations who have corporate travel deals anyway, but small businesses will be able to fly these routes with Go AND hire a car for the day to get to Birmingham or where ever, and still save substantially over what BMI or BA would fleece them for. There's even less argument from the Midlands end, as EMA is not that difficult or time consuming to get to, especially in the early morning (to make a 07:00 departure) for passengers from the northern side of Birmingham's catchment area.

As has been said already, the low fare operators do not offer connections, but GLA/EDI/DUB and the med routes are primarily O+D with hardly any connections - there may be less of an impact from the low fares operators should they start on AMS/CDG/BRU/FRA, where there's a higher proportion of connecting traffic. The big impact will in my mind be on the existing domestic and Irish full fare operations, particularly out of EMA but also out of BHX. Why else are BMIBaby getting into the EMA-DUB market, seemingly competing against the full far BMI Regional operation on the same route? There's only so long that anyone will tollerate a £320 return if there's a cheaper alternative, and I confidently expect that (a) BMIBaby will also move onto EMA-GLA/EDI fairly soon after Go start if not before, and that (b) EMA will see a big decline if not closure of full service routes where there's a direct low fare competitor.
 
BDRules
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 9:48 pm

Just checked and on EMA's web site Florida is not being mentioned as a summer route. EMA apparently is enquiring about Airbridges, they are going to start building a train station to serve the airport and its located nice and close to A42(M) A50, M1 and A38 the terminal is starting to get more facilities and more companies are moving in.

On the other hand, BHX has very little room for expansion, the runway is way too short and its a real pain to get through. the Euro Hub isnt that bad but the main terminal is.

i just hope EMA will get more and more scheduled flights in the near future

Regards BDRules

EMA is the Best (well better than BHX)
 
gkirk
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Wed Feb 13, 2002 11:15 pm

Haha
NCL-Much better than BHX and EMA put together  Smile
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
BDRules
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:11 am

GKIRK i was up at NCL last week on business and its not that good. its only a slight bit worse than EMA and a million air miles better than BHX because it sucks  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
757man
Topic Author
Posts: 355
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:13 am

It is quite clear to me that EMA has suddenly become a threat to BHX because of who it's boss is - Manchester Airport.

I refuse to get into a MAN vs BHX debate (MAN is my 2nd favourite UK airport) but isn't it a strange coincidence?

MAN can try and take PAX away from BHX using it's little brother EMA. Fair play to them - It makes good business sense if you think about it. Despite what others say - BHX and MAN do compete on certain services and there is a rivalry that is evident. I've lost count of the look of glee from my Manchester chums when they visit BHX - "It's a bit small isn't it?" they often say. But thats another story...

I really wish BA would invest more in both BHX and MAN - There is a potential at both airports that is untapped. Big problem though - BA has announced over 5000 jobs will go and LGW is being downsized big time. They really are in a bad way - Not near bankruptcy - But nowehere near as healthy as there were a few years ago. Perhaps theie announcement that Euro fares will be lower from June will help BHX and MAN.

My thoughts on EMA? I don't think those low cost carriers will do that well. Some routes will do well, but I think many won't last long. Most people in Birmingham think EMA is a joke - typical English snobbery. Brummies are quite proud of their airport you know.

Oh, and BHX is better to get to than EMA from all parts of the UK - the M42, M6 and other major roads are nearby. Plus a connected train station that is on the West Coast mainline. The runway will (and does) pose a problem though - but is fine for all short haul services. It's bascially longer haul flights that suffer - and EMA will only be competing on European flights, so I'm not worried about that. Comparing EMA to BHX is akin to comparing COV to EMA........No contest. EMA would be better off on focusing as a cargo hub.

So put that in yer pipe and smoke it!!!
 
BDRules
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:26 am

Ill shove it in my pipe and smoke it. thats a good coment to make but being serious now i really feel that EMA is going to become real competition in the long run for BHX. EMA is expanding all the time.

And MAN havent helped them alot yet but i hope Manchester Airport plc do dip into their pockets and help with the upgrades to the terminal

Regards BDRules
 
karliboy
Posts: 253
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:32 am

ding ding...seconds out...over to David...will Man dip into their pockets to help out BDRules....?

Karl  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
757man
Topic Author
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RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:41 am

You see, most of my comments are tongue in cheek regarding EMA - I'm just scared for my beloved BHX. BA really have messed things up for us....

 
David_itl
Posts: 5946
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Thu Feb 14, 2002 4:27 am


MAN is too full of itself to actually realise what's going on! The priority has to be to look after itself first and foremost, perhaps with some newly redundant hangar being converted into a no-frills type terminal though how passengers would get there is another matter.

Unfortunately, MAN is effectively taking passengers away from itself to baby brother EMA as well as reducing BHX numbers, so whilst you get the perceived wisdom in reduced landing charges at EMA I doubt if any money for terminal enhancements will be forthcoming especially when the doubling of T2 and T3 capacity at MAN is on hold for about 2 years!

It's a particularly stupid thing to have a BHX-MAN rivalry as they essentially serve different catchment areas; I have heard one or two rumours about BHX becoming an overspill airport for London (this may also be down to the fact that BHX passengers seemingly travel to LHR & LGW rather than head northwards), whereas MAN will continue to fill aircraft with people who are reluctant to part with club class faress.

David/MAN
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Thu Feb 14, 2002 4:31 am

Hehe  Smile
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
mailboxb1
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 2:39 am

RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:08 am

BDRules

"EMA is expanding all the time"

Correct but so is every other Airport in the Country including BHX.
 
gf-a330
Posts: 1604
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 10:09 pm

757man

Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:12 am

Hi

PIA are expected to return to BHX at the end of MARCH. Dates are not yet confirmed, but this was told to me by a PIA flight engineer.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: GF-A330

Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:14 am

I heard April 1st mentioned (seriously!)
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
karliboy
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:19 am

RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:46 am

I heard 31 Mar - twice weekly

karl
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:51 am

March 31st, April1st Same difference.
747 via FRA I also heard?!?!
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
BDRules
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 6:31 pm

RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Thu Feb 14, 2002 9:44 pm

yes all are expanding but some not as quickly as EMA
 
David_itl
Posts: 5946
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:54 pm


Some are expanding in a negative manner, naming no names.

David/Negative Expansion...oops MAN

 
BDRules
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 6:31 pm

RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Fri Feb 15, 2002 2:40 am

lol  Smile
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Fri Feb 15, 2002 2:47 am

NCL is still at 3.5million a year and growing  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
BDRules
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 6:31 pm

RE: BHX - Narrow Minded Bosses

Fri Feb 15, 2002 2:48 am

EMA should be at that by the end of 2003 and i am looking at 5 million by 2005/6