PanzerPowner
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So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:47 am

So after watching Miss Pilot for the 500th time, I looked up ANA 73, and eventually, it spiraled into me noticing that ANA operated flights from HND-MEX and Aeromexico operates MEX-NRT. So what traffic does exist between Japan and Mexico to have these routes. Is it tourists? Business or just cargo in the holds of these aircraft.
Well uh, I obviously decided to refine this but i dont know how.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:00 am

As in, why would you need two flights between one city that has metro 38M population to another with 23 M?
 
MalevTU134
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:10 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
As in, why would you need two flights between one city that has metro 38M population to another with 23 M?

...in two countries that have a good 120 million inhabitants...each?

And MEX is probably the shortest and smoothest (shorter than through Europe, and no US or Canadian visa needed) connection point between Japan and most of Latin America. There are bigger business interests between Japan and Latin America than some (most?) people realise, free trade agreements between several countries in East Asia and Latin America are in place or will soon be, as well as the VFR traffic between Japan and mainly Peru and Brazil.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:11 am

plus more extensive LatAm connections than any other city with a non stop to NRT. I've been wondering if the 778 will ever be used NRT LIM, also extensive connections.
 
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aerolimani
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:12 am

Those of us who live within narrowbody range of Mexico, have direct flights to all the holiday locations. In fact, it can be more challenging to get to MEX than to somewhere like ZIH. For travellers from overseas, the widebody flights come primarily to MEX, though there are some holiday flights to bigger destinations like CUN also. I'd say it's a combination of business, cargo, and tourists, thus it makes sense to fly into the capital city; also the largest city in North America. Plus, MEX is the major hub for AM, Interjet, Viva Aerobus, and Interjet; there are onward connections to just about everywhere in Latin America.

There is a quite a bit of widebody traffic into MEX every day. LH with a 748, KL with 2x daily 744, BA with a 744, IB with an A346, AM with 788's going all over the place, and so on…
 
MalevTU134
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:24 am

aerolimani wrote:
Those of us who live within narrowbody range of Mexico, have direct flights to all the holiday locations. In fact, it can be more challenging to get to MEX than to somewhere like ZIH. For travellers from overseas, the widebody flights come primarily to MEX, though there are some holiday flights to bigger destinations like CUN also. I'd say it's a combination of business, cargo, and tourists, thus it makes sense to fly into the capital city; also the largest city in North America. Plus, MEX is the major hub for AM, Interjet, Viva Aerobus, and Interjet; there are onward connections to just about everywhere in Latin America.

There is a quite a bit of widebody traffic into MEX every day. LH with a 748, KL with 2x daily 744, BA with a 744, IB with an A346, AM with 788's going all over the place, and so on…

You mean "narrowbody range TO THE NORTH of Mexico"? Cause almost all of Latin America has great or good connection to MEX.

And Mexico City is the biggest city in the Americas. North or South. Period. Just like Tokyo is the biggest city in the World.
 
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aerolimani
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:52 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
Those of us who live within narrowbody range of Mexico, have direct flights to all the holiday locations. In fact, it can be more challenging to get to MEX than to somewhere like ZIH. For travellers from overseas, the widebody flights come primarily to MEX, though there are some holiday flights to bigger destinations like CUN also. I'd say it's a combination of business, cargo, and tourists, thus it makes sense to fly into the capital city; also the largest city in North America. Plus, MEX is the major hub for AM, Interjet, Viva Aerobus, and Interjet; there are onward connections to just about everywhere in Latin America.

There is a quite a bit of widebody traffic into MEX every day. LH with a 748, KL with 2x daily 744, BA with a 744, IB with an A346, AM with 788's going all over the place, and so on…

You mean "narrowbody range TO THE NORTH of Mexico"? Cause almost all of Latin America has great or good connection to MEX.

Indeed, yes, that is what I mean. Most Canadians and Americans are woefully ignorant of how great Mexico City is, and thus our flights to MEX are primarily VFR and business. Now that the visa requirement has been lifted, there is definitely increasing tourist traffic with Mexicans visiting Canada, thus all the new AM flights.
MalevTU134 wrote:
And Mexico City is the biggest city in the Americas. North or South. Period. Just like Tokyo is the biggest city in the World.

Well… that is a highly debatable point. It all depends on how you want to define "big." City population? Entire metro area population? Physical area? Most sources cite São Paulo as the largest city in the Americas. But this is semantics. The point is that MEX is a MAJOR population centre, and that is a significant factor in why it has frequent service to many points around the globe, including NRT and HND.
 
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mercure1
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:06 am

PanzerPowner wrote:
So after watching Miss Pilot for the 500th time, I looked up ANA 73, and eventually, it spiraled into me noticing that ANA operated flights from HND-MEX and Aeromexico operates MEX-NRT.


ANA services NRT not HND on MEX flights.
 
kriskim
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:15 am

PanzerPowner wrote:
So after watching Miss Pilot for the 500th time, I looked up ANA 73, and eventually, it spiraled into me noticing that ANA operated flights from HND-MEX and Aeromexico operates MEX-NRT. So what traffic does exist between Japan and Mexico to have these routes. Is it tourists? Business or just cargo in the holds of these aircraft.


I love that series! I also watched Attention Please (JL) and Happy Flight (NH), both great, although I would say Attention Please geared towards the female audience more - but interesting to see flight attendant training from start to finish. I didn't realise that NH cadet pilots work as ground staff for awhile during the cadetship.

I love that the Japanese love aviation as much as I do!

On a side note, JL use to operate to MEX too, however ended the flight after filing for bankruptcy, so there must be a market for it, I heard that alot of Japanese businesses have business interests in Mexico.
it's time to visit Melbourne! ;)
 
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mercure1
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:16 am

MalevTU134 wrote:

And Mexico City is the biggest city in the Americas. North or South. Period. Just like Tokyo is the biggest city in the World.


MEX might have many people in the metropolis, but its not as important of a global city. Its not a Alpha++, or alpha city, which there are several in the Americas - NY, Chicago, Los Angeles, Sao Paulo for example. MEX ranks more akin to cities like Brussels, Madrid, Seoul, Toronto in the global scale of things.

Nothing against Mexico City, but simply looking at population is hardly the the best measure of economic activity or travel demand.
 
pipeafcr
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:33 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
plus more extensive LatAm connections than any other city with a non stop to NRT. I've been wondering if the 778 will ever be used NRT LIM, also extensive connections.


and visa-free too except for Ecuador and Bolivia
Felipe Carrillo
 
wingedtaurus
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:39 pm

mercure1 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:

And Mexico City is the biggest city in the Americas. North or South. Period. Just like Tokyo is the biggest city in the World.


MEX might have many people in the metropolis, but its not as important of a global city. Its not a Alpha++, or alpha city, which there are several in the Americas - NY, Chicago, Los Angeles, Sao Paulo for example. MEX ranks more akin to cities like Brussels, Madrid, Seoul, Toronto in the global scale of things.

Nothing against Mexico City, but simply looking at population is hardly the the best measure of economic activity or travel demand.



Not quite. According to GaWC (and their alpha ranking) there are only two Alpha++ cities LHR and JFK; Alpha +: HKG, CDG, SIN, NRT, PVG, DXB, SYD, PKG; the next level are 14 plain Alpha cities including ORD, MAD, LAX,...the only two Latin-american cities here are GRU and MEX.

Furthermore, according to the Brookings Institute Global cities Initiative ( a joint project with JP Morgan Chase) MEX has "Over 20 million people live in the Metropolitan Area of Mexico City (MAMC), making in the largest urban agglomeration in the Western Hemisphere, the largest Spanish-speaking metro globally, and the third largest metropolitan area in the world. Mexico City’s GDP stood at $411.4 billion in 2012, making it the eighth largest urban economy in the world."
 
Flighty
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:43 pm

wingedtaurus wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:

And Mexico City is the biggest city in the Americas. North or South. Period. Just like Tokyo is the biggest city in the World.


MEX might have many people in the metropolis, but its not as important of a global city. Its not a Alpha++, or alpha city, which there are several in the Americas - NY, Chicago, Los Angeles, Sao Paulo for example. MEX ranks more akin to cities like Brussels, Madrid, Seoul, Toronto in the global scale of things.

Nothing against Mexico City, but simply looking at population is hardly the the best measure of economic activity or travel demand.



Not quite. According to GaWC (and their alpha ranking) there are only two Alpha++ cities LHR and JFK; Alpha +: HKG, CDG, SIN, NRT, PVG, DXB, SYD, PKG; the next level are 14 plain Alpha cities including ORD, MAD, LAX,...the only two Latin-american cities here are GRU and MEX.

Furthermore, according to the Brookings Institute Global cities Initiative ( a joint project with JP Morgan Chase) MEX has "Over 20 million people live in the Metropolitan Area of Mexico City (MAMC), making in the largest urban agglomeration in the Western Hemisphere, the largest Spanish-speaking metro globally, and the third largest metropolitan area in the world. Mexico City’s GDP stood at $411.4 billion in 2012, making it the eighth largest urban economy in the world."


Yeah, GDP is probably the best simple way to look at travel demand (with some exceptions, like Indonesia, because they are island bound).

Air travel mainly serves economic dollars, not people. For decades, the USA had the majority of the world's aviation and also economic activity. Until quite recently, a city like Dallas exceeded the entire country of India in terms of aviation demand. It may have exceeded the continent of Africa.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:44 pm

The population is hardly a good indicator of travel demand.

Economic activity such as the type of industries and economic base of cities and consumer disposable income have much more meaning driving travel propensity.
Some of the worlds most populous cities (such as Lagos) have very low travel propensity while some of the smallest (Singapore) have extremely high travel propensity.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
 
kdonohue
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:55 pm

To aerolimani's point, it's true that most Canadians and Americans are unaware of Mexico City. It's reputation for many is crowded, polluted, and crime-filled. I visited Mexico City a few years ago and was pleasantly surprised by how nice the city was. I had a great visit and getting around on the subway was easy and inexpensive.

And to another post about JAL's former flights to MEX. Those routed through Vancouver with the carrier enjoying fifth freedom rights on the YVR-MEX sector. China Southern is beginning service between Guangzhou and Mexico City via Vancouver, though no fifth freedom rights for them on YVR-MEX..
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:38 pm

Might this also be for avoiding US immigration and customs for people not eligible for visa waiver? For some time from Asia to Latin America, one had to fly through Europe, via Vancouver, or take Aeromexico.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:54 pm

aerolimani wrote:
There is a quite a bit of widebody traffic into MEX every day. LH with a 748, KL with 2x daily 744, BA with a 744, IB with an A346, AM with 788's going all over the place, and so on…


When does KL operate 2x daily MEX-AMS?
 
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aerolimani
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:29 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
There is a quite a bit of widebody traffic into MEX every day. LH with a 748, KL with 2x daily 744, BA with a 744, IB with an A346, AM with 788's going all over the place, and so on…


When does KL operate 2x daily MEX-AMS?

Haven't checked it in a while. I should have looked it up before posting. It used to be that AM wasn't doing AMS, and KL was on it twice a day. They're Skyteam partners, so I guess they came to a new agreement as of May 2016. Nonetheless, it's still two widebodies between AMS and MEX daily; a KL 744 and an AM 789.
 
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XLA2008
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:13 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
As in, why would you need two flights between one city that has metro 38M population to another with 23 M?


Population doesn't equal demand for a route!!! For example Mexico City has a population of 21m and Jakarta has a population of 30m but you don't see ANY direct flights between the cities let alone 2 flights... so that snarky remark to his question was totally irrelevant to the topic and also added NO help or fact in answering his question!
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KrustyTheKlown
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:15 am

The automotive industry has been driving some demand for TYO-MEX service but more affordable fares have also driven tourist demand.

In the 80's the only Japanese car company established in Mexico was Nissan, during the 90's Honda and Toyota started selling cars in Mexico. In the 00's Mitsubishi, Subaru, Suzuki and Mazda came to the country (nowadays you are more likely to see a Mazda than a Chrysler in Mexico). Although it is worth mentioning that only Nissan has a plant near Mexico city and so for engineers flying to and from Japan sometimes it's more convenient to connect though an US airport.

For a long time the only successful airline flying TYO-MEX was JAL (successful enough for JAL to build a Nikko hotel in Mexico city). Maybe during some time two carriers also competed for this market (I kind of remember that Mexicana and/or Taesa tried the route). Then came JAL's 2009 bankruptcy and Aeromexico started flying to NRT shortly after that.

Aeromexico first used their 777s with a stop in Tijuana, later their 787-8s with stops in Tijuana or Monterrey and last year the flight became non-stop and daily. Demand for NRT-MEX service is now large enough for ANA to start the route also with daily frequencies.

Japan and Mexico have free trade and visa waiver agreements and the perception that the citizens of each country have of the other is positive so is not surprising that two airlines currently fly this route. When the new MEX airport opens I wouldn't be surprised if more connecting passengers to/from South America allow some airline to increase frequencies or for JAL to re-enter the market (with the help fellow Oneworld member LATAM).
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:56 am

XLA2008 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
As in, why would you need two flights between one city that has metro 38M population to another with 23 M?


Population doesn't equal demand for a route!!! For example Mexico City has a population of 21m and Jakarta has a population of 30m but you don't see ANY direct flights between the cities let alone 2 flights... so that snarky remark to his question was totally irrelevant to the topic and also added NO help or fact in answering his question!


BOOM goes the dynamite! So glad you posted this.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:33 am

KrustyTheKlown wrote:

For a long time the only successful airline flying TYO-MEX was JAL (successful enough for JAL to build a Nikko hotel in Mexico city).


Hotel which has been since reflagged.

While JAL did own Okura Nikko at one time, the Mexico City property was not corporate owned property, but instead owned by an investment firm which itself sold the property to a Hyatt affiliate.

So no JAL did not build the Mexico City Nikko, they only flagged it via typical franchise agreement.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:31 am

XLA2008 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
As in, why would you need two flights between one city that has metro 38M population to another with 23 M?


Population doesn't equal demand for a route!!! For example Mexico City has a population of 21m and Jakarta has a population of 30m but you don't see ANY direct flights between the cities let alone 2 flights... so that snarky remark to his question was totally irrelevant to the topic and also added NO help or fact in answering his question!


Significantly longer distance between two countries with little relationship. So, your point is not landed. Try again.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:34 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
As in, why would you need two flights between one city that has metro 38M population to another with 23 M?


Population doesn't equal demand for a route!!! For example Mexico City has a population of 21m and Jakarta has a population of 30m but you don't see ANY direct flights between the cities let alone 2 flights... so that snarky remark to his question was totally irrelevant to the topic and also added NO help or fact in answering his question!


BOOM goes the dynamite! So glad you posted this.


Thanks for the no value post. While you're at it why don't we ask questions like why do five carriers fly TYO-LAX?
 
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CARST
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:26 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Might this also be for avoiding US immigration and customs for people not eligible for visa waiver? For some time from Asia to Latin America, one had to fly through Europe, via Vancouver, or take Aeromexico.


It is not only visa waiver. I even think WVP and Visa in general is not the major point. The problem is way more that US airports are not designed for international connections. The absolute horror from a passenger perspective, that you have to go through immigration, collect your bags, go through customs, re-check your bags (ideally just drop them off), go back through security, this all is such a major hassle and often can take two hours. Longer if you are not entitled to ESTA (WVP-country citizens) and have to wait in line for immigration.

So for people from South and Latin America and people from Asia, connecting in Mexico just seems like the most logical choice.
 
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XLA2008
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:38 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
As in, why would you need two flights between one city that has metro 38M population to another with 23 M?


Population doesn't equal demand for a route!!! For example Mexico City has a population of 21m and Jakarta has a population of 30m but you don't see ANY direct flights between the cities let alone 2 flights... so that snarky remark to his question was totally irrelevant to the topic and also added NO help or fact in answering his question!


Significantly longer distance between two countries with little relationship. So, your point is not landed. Try again.


Lol my friend if you can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen!!!

MEX 21M - Osaka 20M - No direct flight
MEX 21M - Delhi 21M - No direct flight
MEX 21M - Cairo 18M - No direct flight
MEX 21M - Chongqing 12M - No direct flight

The list goes on!!!

Want another example of something else...

Lagos 12m - Dhaka Bangladesh 16m No Direct flight
Dhaka 16m - Cairo 18.9m No Direct flight.

I think my friend that is what they call a SLAM DUNK! So move onto another topic to post irrelevant, incorrect nonsense information... case and point proven population doesn't equal demand for a particular or any particular Routes! Argue ALL you like but you are incorrect, your post was just nonsense and spam, you have nothing to add to this topic, certainly nothing anyone cares to hear about so do us all a favor and either add something that contributes or just go away lol! Sorry for those that have had to real his nonsense trolling! And just FYI you said that Jakarta and Mexico have little relationship in common.. your original snarky post mentioned nothing of ANYTHING OTHER than the sole reason for the flights was due to City population! You said the sole reason was just population! Perhaps if that isn't what you mean then you should learn some manners and give an informative answer!
Last edited by XLA2008 on Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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XLA2008
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:43 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:

Population doesn't equal demand for a route!!! For example Mexico City has a population of 21m and Jakarta has a population of 30m but you don't see ANY direct flights between the cities let alone 2 flights... so that snarky remark to his question was totally irrelevant to the topic and also added NO help or fact in answering his question!


BOOM goes the dynamite! So glad you posted this.


Thanks for the no value post. While you're at it why don't we ask questions like why do five carriers fly TYO-LAX?


Five carriers operate that route NOT to do with population, they do it because both cities are huge cities of commerce with a LARGE interest in bilateral business, Japanese companies based in LA and the US and US companies based in Tokyo... big demand, LA is also a huge connecting hub for onward traffic given that nearly all US carries operate out of LA onward to other cities in the United States... this isn't population based it's busines based, that would be the correct answer to give its detailed informative... not snarky and low and pointless like the posts you've been contributing now do us all a favor and just move on somewhere else your comments aren't welcome here! And before you slam that guy for a "no value post" ermmm pretty sure that's the pot calling the kettle black, your the one with the no value post here! His comment just pointed out your flaw and you didn't like reading it so acted out!
Last edited by XLA2008 on Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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XLA2008
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:54 am

CARST wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Might this also be for avoiding US immigration and customs for people not eligible for visa waiver? For some time from Asia to Latin America, one had to fly through Europe, via Vancouver, or take Aeromexico.


It is not only visa waiver. I even think WVP and Visa in general is not the major point. The problem is way more that US airports are not designed for international connections. The absolute horror from a passenger perspective, that you have to go through immigration, collect your bags, go through customs, re-check your bags (ideally just drop them off), go back through security, this all is such a major hassle and often can take two hours. Longer if you are not entitled to ESTA (WVP-country citizens) and have to wait in line for immigration.

So for people from South and Latin America and people from Asia, connecting in Mexico just seems like the most logical choice.


I believe Visas may play a role in this, but I agree totally with what you have said, even connecting domestic from international is a total pain! Let alone having to connect on international flights!
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mjoelnir
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:31 am

mercure1 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:

And Mexico City is the biggest city in the Americas. North or South. Period. Just like Tokyo is the biggest city in the World.


MEX might have many people in the metropolis, but its not as important of a global city. Its not a Alpha++, or alpha city, which there are several in the Americas - NY, Chicago, Los Angeles, Sao Paulo for example. MEX ranks more akin to cities like Brussels, Madrid, Seoul, Toronto in the global scale of things.

Nothing against Mexico City, but simply looking at population is hardly the the best measure of economic activity or travel demand.


Have you put some thinking in your post? What criteria do you use for ranking a city?

Let us start with akin to Brussels. I would rank the importance of Brussels quite a bit above Chicago for example. Brussels is a capital city, the headquarters of the EU and the headquarters of many international organisations. What the heck is in Chicago that makes it an alpha city?

MEX as an airport has 42 million passengers, about the same size as GRU. The main problem with MEX is that it is to small for its traffic.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:10 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:

Population doesn't equal demand for a route!!! For example Mexico City has a population of 21m and Jakarta has a population of 30m but you don't see ANY direct flights between the cities let alone 2 flights... so that snarky remark to his question was totally irrelevant to the topic and also added NO help or fact in answering his question!


BOOM goes the dynamite! So glad you posted this.


Thanks for the no value post. While you're at it why don't we ask questions like why do five carriers fly TYO-LAX?


Once again SFOtoORD you come back with a completely irrelevant response. Nobody is talking about TYO-LAX. Please sit down.
 
BuildingMyBento
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:22 pm

Does NH already codeshare on MEX flights to points south (say, LIM/GRU)?

Good to finally see a nonstop *A carrier on this route.
 
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:53 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
As in, why would you need two flights between one city that has metro 38M population to another with 23 M?


The OP and a couple other new anetters have a quota to make multiple topics a day, either for attention or they are paid for it. Usually they have an ad for their instragram or youtube in their signature. They are desperate to create topics so they dream up mindless questions like this that make no sense.
 
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:56 pm

XLA2008 wrote:
You said the sole reason was just population! Perhaps if that isn't what you mean then you should learn some manners and give an informative answer!


You are spitting hairs. Population is the most important thing. Business links between large population centres drive airplane routes. Japan has a long history of investment and business links to Central and South America. That creates demand for routes. Multiple routes a day are needed due to such high populations. There you go. Move on.
 
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XLA2008
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:26 pm

b747400erf wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:
You said the sole reason was just population! Perhaps if that isn't what you mean then you should learn some manners and give an informative answer!


You are spitting hairs. Population is the most important thing. Business links between large population centres drive airplane routes. Japan has a long history of investment and business links to Central and South America. That creates demand for routes. Multiple routes a day are needed due to such high populations. There you go. Move on.


Not splitting hairs at all, while population plays a role in the economics of links between countries it is not by far the most important thing at all! Population does not equal demand! As if you had read my previous post cities like Dhaka which has one of the larger populations in the world is not linked directly to many other cities that also make up the most densely populated cities! What is actually important when it comes to economics of a route is how much trade runs between the pairs of cities, such as cargo, businesses, tourism, I never said population plays no part but it by far is NOT the most important part of it! It doesn't equal automatic demand for a flight!
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pzurita1
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:48 pm

Answering OP question, 85.900 Japanese residents visited Mexico in 2015
Only 49.1% used MEX as their entry point to the country. Others used Cancun, Bajio, Aguascalientes and Monterrey among others (clearly connecting in the US for that purpose). In 2016, the figure will have risen to anything between 94,000 and 98,000.
http://www.viaxico.com/where-do-tourist ... to-mexico/

When NH started flights to MEX, I remember reading that there were around 45,000 Mexicans traveling to Japan every year (give or take 5K as my memory is not that great).

so, current demand is at least close to 130,000 pax, plus the many connections to Central and South America. I guess this is fair ground for two carriers in the market.
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
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United787
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:00 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Have you put some thinking in your post? What criteria do you use for ranking a city?

Let us start with akin to Brussels. I would rank the importance of Brussels quite a bit above Chicago for example. Brussels is a capital city, the headquarters of the EU and the headquarters of many international organisations. What the heck is in Chicago that makes it an alpha city?


He is not ranking the cities, he is getting the rankings from this list, which is a pretty comprehensive ranking system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city

Chicago and Brussels are ranked the same. Brussels may be important from a political standpoint but Chicago is much larger. Chicago's metro area (9.5 million) vs. Brussels metro area (1.8 million). Chicago's GRP is $561 billion vs. Brussels $150 million. Chicago is home to more than 400 major corporate headquarters, including 32 in the Fortune 500 and a major global financial center including the CME, the world's largest options and futures exchange. It has a highly diversified economy with one of the world's largest transportation networks.

But this isn't about Chicago or Brussels but important to get the facts straight. Come visit sometime, I bet you will love it. I loved Brussels!
 
catiii
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:31 pm

XLA2008 wrote:
MEX 21M - Delhi 21M - No direct flight
MEX 21M - Cairo 18M - No direct flight


I think my friend that is what they call a SLAM DUNK! So move onto another topic to post irrelevant, incorrect nonsense information... case and point proven population doesn't equal demand for a particular or any particular Routes! Argue ALL you like but you are incorrect, your post was just nonsense and spam, you have nothing to add to this topic, certainly nothing anyone cares to hear about so do us all a favor and either add something that contributes or just go away lol! Sorry for those that have had to real his nonsense trolling! And just FYI you said that Jakarta and Mexico have little relationship in common.. your original snarky post mentioned nothing of ANYTHING OTHER than the sole reason for the flights was due to City population! You said the sole reason was just population! Perhaps if that isn't what you mean then you should learn some manners and give an informative answer!


Show us the airplane that can do MEX-DEL?
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:42 pm

aerolimani wrote:
Indeed, yes, that is what I mean. Most Canadians and Americans are woefully ignorant of how great Mexico City is, and thus our flights to MEX are primarily VFR and business. Now that the visa requirement has been lifted, there is definitely increasing tourist traffic with Mexicans visiting Canada, thus all the new AM flights


Can you please enlighten us as to why virtually all Mexico flights to NA are served by narrow bodies and paper planes by those third class airlines like viva aerobus if it's such a goldmine?
 
catiii
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:51 pm

b747400erf wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
As in, why would you need two flights between one city that has metro 38M population to another with 23 M?


The OP and a couple other new anetters have a quota to make multiple topics a day, either for attention or they are paid for it. Usually they have an ad for their instragram or youtube in their signature. They are desperate to create topics so they dream up mindless questions like this that make no sense.


Amen. God I miss the old site...
 
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XLA2008
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:58 pm

catiii wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:
MEX 21M - Delhi 21M - No direct flight
MEX 21M - Cairo 18M - No direct flight


I think my friend that is what they call a SLAM DUNK! So move onto another topic to post irrelevant, incorrect nonsense information... case and point proven population doesn't equal demand for a particular or any particular Routes! Argue ALL you like but you are incorrect, your post was just nonsense and spam, you have nothing to add to this topic, certainly nothing anyone cares to hear about so do us all a favor and either add something that contributes or just go away lol! Sorry for those that have had to real his nonsense trolling! And just FYI you said that Jakarta and Mexico have little relationship in common.. your original snarky post mentioned nothing of ANYTHING OTHER than the sole reason for the flights was due to City population! You said the sole reason was just population! Perhaps if that isn't what you mean then you should learn some manners and give an informative answer!


Show us the airplane that can do MEX-DEL?


It's used as an example just like the other routes listed, but your clearly a pedantic person lol...

MEX - DEL 7924nm - 7LR 9500nm Range - A345 9000nm Range.... not factoring winds or routing but you asked I answered! I do believe the Singapore - JFK route operated by Singapore airlines was even further than MEX-DEL at about 8260nm... maybe you should check your facts before commenting!
| A.J-B |

“For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.“
 
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aerolimani
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:18 pm

VCEflyboy wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
Indeed, yes, that is what I mean. Most Canadians and Americans are woefully ignorant of how great Mexico City is, and thus our flights to MEX are primarily VFR and business. Now that the visa requirement has been lifted, there is definitely increasing tourist traffic with Mexicans visiting Canada, thus all the new AM flights


Can you please enlighten us as to why virtually all Mexico flights to NA are served by narrow bodies and paper planes by those third class airlines like viva aerobus if it's such a goldmine?

Same reason most domestic flights around Canada and the USA are on NB's. A WB is not needed for the range, and frequency is preferred. Pretty obvious.

This thread has already discussed plenty of justification why MEX is an important city, economically. As to MEX and its tourism draw, you don't have to take my word for it. The NYT made it #1 in their 2016 Top 52 list. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... visit.html

*edited to fix formatting error
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:30 pm

XLA2008 wrote:
b747400erf wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:
You said the sole reason was just population! Perhaps if that isn't what you mean then you should learn some manners and give an informative answer!


You are spitting hairs. Population is the most important thing. Business links between large population centres drive airplane routes. Japan has a long history of investment and business links to Central and South America. That creates demand for routes. Multiple routes a day are needed due to such high populations. There you go. Move on.


Not splitting hairs at all, while population plays a role in the economics of links between countries it is not by far the most important thing at all! Population does not equal demand! As if you had read my previous post cities like Dhaka which has one of the larger populations in the world is not linked directly to many other cities that also make up the most densely populated cities! What is actually important when it comes to economics of a route is how much trade runs between the pairs of cities, such as cargo, businesses, tourism, I never said population plays no part but it by far is NOT the most important part of it! It doesn't equal automatic demand for a flight!


The thread started by questioning the need/legitimacy to have two flights between TYO and MEX. At no point did any person including the OP provide any reason why there shouldn't be two flights. Instead a bunch of pointless posts were provided about far flung big cities without direct links that provided no insight on the OP.
 
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XLA2008
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:51 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:
b747400erf wrote:

You are spitting hairs. Population is the most important thing. Business links between large population centres drive airplane routes. Japan has a long history of investment and business links to Central and South America. That creates demand for routes. Multiple routes a day are needed due to such high populations. There you go. Move on.


Not splitting hairs at all, while population plays a role in the economics of links between countries it is not by far the most important thing at all! Population does not equal demand! As if you had read my previous post cities like Dhaka which has one of the larger populations in the world is not linked directly to many other cities that also make up the most densely populated cities! What is actually important when it comes to economics of a route is how much trade runs between the pairs of cities, such as cargo, businesses, tourism, I never said population plays no part but it by far is NOT the most important part of it! It doesn't equal automatic demand for a flight!


The thread started by questioning the need/legitimacy to have two flights between TYO and MEX. At no point did any person including the OP provide any reason why there shouldn't be two flights. Instead a bunch of pointless posts were provided about far flung big cities without direct links that provided no insight on the OP.


I think your talking about your own posts!! You can't attempt to take the moral high ground now after your total useless responses lol
| A.J-B |

“For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.“
 
ghost77
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:50 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
MEX as an airport has 42 million passengers, about the same size as GRU. The main problem with MEX is that it is to small for its traffic.


MEX actually attended 5.1 million passengers more than GRU in 2016 (41,710,254 vs 36,596,326).

Anyway, for those who asked about the market size between Mexico City and Tokyo, the 2016 statistics show that 101,792 passengers were moved by Aeromexico between these two cities, with an increase of 17.5% compared to the previous year, and a load factor of 86.8%.

Aeromexico has been in this market since 2006, and competed with JAL until they quit in January 2010.

http://www.sct.gob.mx

g77
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:05 pm

XLA2008 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:

Not splitting hairs at all, while population plays a role in the economics of links between countries it is not by far the most important thing at all! Population does not equal demand! As if you had read my previous post cities like Dhaka which has one of the larger populations in the world is not linked directly to many other cities that also make up the most densely populated cities! What is actually important when it comes to economics of a route is how much trade runs between the pairs of cities, such as cargo, businesses, tourism, I never said population plays no part but it by far is NOT the most important part of it! It doesn't equal automatic demand for a flight!


The thread started by questioning the need/legitimacy to have two flights between TYO and MEX. At no point did any person including the OP provide any reason why there shouldn't be two flights. Instead a bunch of pointless posts were provided about far flung big cities without direct links that provided no insight on the OP.


I think your talking about your own posts!! You can't attempt to take the moral high ground now after your total useless responses lol


Please point to one place you made a relevant point to the OP. You and your silly "SLAM DUNK" posts can take a hike.
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:17 pm

XLA2008 wrote:

Lol my friend if you can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen!!!

I think my friend that is what they call a SLAM DUNK! So move onto another topic to post irrelevant, incorrect nonsense information.

You can't attempt to take the moral high ground now after your total useless responses lol

And before you slam that guy for a "no value post" ermmm pretty sure that's the pot calling the kettle black, your the one with the no value post here! His comment just pointed out your flaw and you didn't like reading it so acted out!

So, your point is not landed. Try again.

maybe you should check your facts before commenting!

Once again SFOtoORD you come back with a completely irrelevant response. Nobody is talking about TYO-LAX. Please sit down.



So, I live in Mexico and was hoping to find this thread interesting. Unfortunately, I encountered quite a bit of arguing. Your comments are not enjoyable to read and don't promote friendly dialogue. Just try playing nice with others? Perhaps you made some valid points, but I couldn't get beyond your arrogance and rudeness to read them. Just a suggestion from one of us old fossils that have been participating members here for a while.

Now on topic:

Mexico has risen to be a powerhouse in automotive manufacturing. It also constitutes a huge supplier base for the USA and Canada. Japan is a large automotive manufacturing powerhouse as well (that's stating the obvious). I have friends that work and live in D.F. (Mexico City) and they tell me there is quite the Japanese speaking population. There are strong synergies between the two nations. Direct flights between their two major cities makes sense.
learning never stops.
 
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XLA2008
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:50 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

The thread started by questioning the need/legitimacy to have two flights between TYO and MEX. At no point did any person including the OP provide any reason why there shouldn't be two flights. Instead a bunch of pointless posts were provided about far flung big cities without direct links that provided no insight on the OP.


I think your talking about your own posts!! You can't attempt to take the moral high ground now after your total useless responses lol


Please point to one place you made a relevant point to the OP. You and your silly "SLAM DUNK" posts can take a hike.


Oh you just don't like being wrong do you hahahaha! You said population equals demand and pretty much made out he was stupid for even questioning it... I merely pointed out to you as you can read that you are wrong!
| A.J-B |

“For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.“
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:23 am

XLA2008 wrote:
Oh you just don't like being wrong do you hahahaha! You said population equals demand and pretty much made out he was stupid for even questioning it... I merely pointed out to you as you can read that you are wrong!


Thank you for being so right. I hope ANA and AM have been educated by your posts so they can cancel their two completely unneeded flights TYO-MEX.

And also thanks for protecting the OP so he can continue posting baseless questions. Making the forum a better place.
 
catiii
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Re: So What Is The Demand Between MEX-Tokyo to demand 2 carriers?

Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:00 am

XLA2008 wrote:
catiii wrote:
XLA2008 wrote:
MEX 21M - Delhi 21M - No direct flight
MEX 21M - Cairo 18M - No direct flight


I think my friend that is what they call a SLAM DUNK! So move onto another topic to post irrelevant, incorrect nonsense information... case and point proven population doesn't equal demand for a particular or any particular Routes! Argue ALL you like but you are incorrect, your post was just nonsense and spam, you have nothing to add to this topic, certainly nothing anyone cares to hear about so do us all a favor and either add something that contributes or just go away lol! Sorry for those that have had to real his nonsense trolling! And just FYI you said that Jakarta and Mexico have little relationship in common.. your original snarky post mentioned nothing of ANYTHING OTHER than the sole reason for the flights was due to City population! You said the sole reason was just population! Perhaps if that isn't what you mean then you should learn some manners and give an informative answer!


Show us the airplane that can do MEX-DEL?


It's used as an example just like the other routes listed, but your clearly a pedantic person lol...

MEX - DEL 7924nm - 7LR 9500nm Range - A345 9000nm Range.... not factoring winds or routing but you asked I answered! I do believe the Singapore - JFK route operated by Singapore airlines was even further than MEX-DEL at about 8260nm... maybe you should check your facts before commenting!


Wow....you're quite the jerk huh? No one can ask you a question?

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