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fsafsx
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Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:21 pm

I think IND deserves their own thread because IND has a lot going on from the rest of Indiana so here we can list new routes, make suggestions and debate, and talk a little about Indy's new scene and how it will set the stage for a flight to Europe and Asia while competing with surrounding airports.
 
COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:50 pm

When does AS start IND-SEA ??

Also WN IND-SAN starts this summer great adds for IND
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:58 pm

IND-SEA starts May 11th. Did you see AS is starting IND-SFO in September. Starts as VX metal. Surprising add but nice to see.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:59 pm

BTW wasn't there already an Indiana aviation thread?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
fsafsx
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:12 pm

Indy wrote:
BTW wasn't there already an Indiana aviation thread?
Yes but I though IND deserves its own so we can free up space for those talking about EVV, SBN and FWA.
 
COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:31 am

Yea wow I don't see how AS can make IND-SFO work.. with UA on the route
 
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:03 pm

COSPN wrote:
Yea wow I don't see how AS can make IND-SFO work.. with UA on the route
It's different competition as to that of a hub carrier, at least AS is the 2nd carrier instead of 3rd.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
fsafsx
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:32 pm

I am confused why IND 2 DTW is a 757, someone please elaborate? Shouldnt the 757 be on MSP 2 IND?
 
EMB170
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:29 pm

IND-DTW is sometimes on 757 aircraft for a couple of different reasons. First, it could be that the 757 is in for a quick turn from DTW before going on a much longer mission. Getting the aircraft back up in the air helps increase fleet utilization, helping DL make more money (UA often used to do the same, sometimes even with 763 aircraft, from ORD in the late 90s/early 00s). It can also help if the prime international connecting banks from Europe and Asia are coming in and a great deal of connecting traffic is going on to IND via DTW. IND-MSP isn't as short of a flight as IND-DTW is (DTW is under an hour in the air), so those "turn & burns" aren't as easy to work into the schedules from MSP as they are from DTW.

Second, keep in mind that some of the 757 mods to the new 75D/75H configurations are being done in IND. As a result, 757s fly in when they go in to get the mods, and fly out again when they leave.
IND ORD ATL MCO PIT EWR BUF CVG DEN RNO JFK DTW BOS BDL BWI IAD RDU CLT MYR CHS TPA CID MSP STL MSY DFW IAH AUS SLC LAS
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:30 pm

It looks like DL has pretty well gut seats to MSP from IND and shifted them to DTW.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:48 pm

IND will probably see more service to tech centers around the nation. A Brookings study shows the Indy metro area as a solid tech hub. The report shows the metro area gaining the 15th most tech jobs and the 3rd fastest growth rate. The growth rate in the study actually outpaced San Francisco and San Jose. Of course we are working with a smaller starting number so the total jobs added doesn't compare.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-aven ... -stronger/
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
fsafsx
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:54 pm

I just dont get why DTW gets more capacity than MSP its obvious that more people travel between MSP and IND than DTW so why add larger aircraft and more frequency? Im also hoping British Airways or Norwegian serves IND to Europe but I wouldnt be surprised if Lufthansa or Condor or Euro Wings did too.
 
BDL757
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:38 pm

Indy wrote:
It looks like DL has pretty well gut seats to MSP from IND and shifted them to DTW.


I'm not quite sure why you think MSP should have the 757 vs DTW but as mentioned its probably utilization flying. Once peak summer rolls around IND to MSP will have more capacity than DTW and have all mainline flying:

(Using 27JUL17)
DTW- 7x: 2x 717, 3x CR7, 2x CR9 or roughly 567 seats
MSP- 5x: 3x 319, 2x 320 or roughly 716 seats
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:22 pm

BDL757 wrote:
Indy wrote:
It looks like DL has pretty well gut seats to MSP from IND and shifted them to DTW.


I'm not quite sure why you think MSP should have the 757 vs DTW but as mentioned its probably utilization flying. Once peak summer rolls around IND to MSP will have more capacity than DTW and have all mainline flying:

(Using 27JUL17)
DTW- 7x: 2x 717, 3x CR7, 2x CR9 or roughly 567 seats
MSP- 5x: 3x 319, 2x 320 or roughly 716 seats


I didn't say I think they should have the 757. I simply stated DL is gutting MSP. And don't put any stock in the current summer schedule. When July comes around the equipment will look nothing like what the schedule shows today. If you want a really good example, just look at the Monday following the Indy 500. Right now DL has a bunch of smaller jets flying IND-ATL. As we get closer to race time that will all change. By the time that Monday comes around there will be mostly 757's flying IND-ATL. It happens every year.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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SANFan
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:41 pm

I still expect AAG (possibly the VX unit) might very well add IND-SAN sooner rather than later. (I was quite surprised when they didn't add it along with the SEA service that was announced last year.)

WN did in fact announce IND-SAN to start this June (great news!) and thus beat AAG to be the first in the market. However, WN's service is currently scheduled to end on Labor Day so it is a seasonal summer flight only. (As of now.) There has been talk that once WN is finished with their fleet changes taking place later this year/early next, the IND-SAN flight might quickly become a permanent year-round one.

I see this as a great opportunity for AAG to jump in and start IND-SAN this September, as a year-round route. They can then serve the route alone until WN re-starts it. I really think they could use a 737 but if necessary, an EMJ would work temporarily.

I know that IND-SAN can certainly support at least 1 daily nonstop on a year-round basis (based on traffic stats from DOT) and this may become a good healthy competition between AS and WN.

bb
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:08 am

What do you think is the future of IND? could NK or JQ move in, will B6 continue to expand, LHR or FRA flights, could AS/QX make indy a focus city. I see the sky as the limit in terms of room to grow with there being lots of gates available.
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fsafsx
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:25 am

Will we see B6 come into Indy any time soon? Id like to see tpac or tatl here soon im getting bored of no announcements for service.
 
IndEagle
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:32 am

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/st ... ht-funding

Looks like the Indy chamber of commerce is pushing the state for a $10 Mill guarantee to Europe, then they single out LHR as a destination. Does anyone know how this compares to other recent rev guarentees? I found this;
MSY $1.4 Mil 3 year to LHR, PiTT $800,000 2 year to RKV and $500,000 to FRA 2year
$10mill seems a bit much for just LHR, maybe they are starting to think with some ambition?
 
LupineChemist
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:06 pm

IndEagle wrote:
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/35005592/chamber-pushing-for-international-flight-funding

Looks like the Indy chamber of commerce is pushing the state for a $10 Mill guarantee to Europe, then they single out LHR as a destination. Does anyone know how this compares to other recent rev guarentees? I found this;
MSY $1.4 Mil 3 year to LHR, PiTT $800,000 2 year to RKV and $500,000 to FRA 2year
$10mill seems a bit much for just LHR, maybe they are starting to think with some ambition?


I always thought it was odd that BA doesn't serve IND. Cummins has a major factory in Coventry, the obvious link with Rolls Royce. Not to mention Lily would provide lots of demand. The universities would provide quite a lot of feed from Purdue, Indiana, and even University of Illinois as it would be much more convenient than ORD. The catchment area could even be as far as Louisville and get a fair amount of demand from there.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:31 am

fsafsx wrote:
Will we see B6 come into Indy any time soon? Id like to see tpac or tatl here soon im getting bored of no announcements for service.

How are you bored? The indy airport has added a plethora of non-stops in the past year AUS, SFO, VPS, LAS, SAN, EWR, plus new airlines in VX and AS so there has been PLENTY of announcements of service. Here is a link to B6 in the midwest viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1357717&p=19415701&hilit=b6+midwest#p19415701
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:50 am

IndEagle wrote:
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/35005592/chamber-pushing-for-international-flight-funding

Looks like the Indy chamber of commerce is pushing the state for a $10 Mill guarantee to Europe, then they single out LHR as a destination. Does anyone know how this compares to other recent rev guarentees? I found this;
MSY $1.4 Mil 3 year to LHR, PiTT $800,000 2 year to RKV and $500,000 to FRA 2year
$10mill seems a bit much for just LHR, maybe they are starting to think with some ambition?


Saying they should give a $10 mil guarantee by comparing it to SFO seems like a stretch. SFO and IND don't even compare, but to each their own.
 
IndEagle
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:54 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
IndEagle wrote:
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/35005592/chamber-pushing-for-international-flight-funding

Looks like the Indy chamber of commerce is pushing the state for a $10 Mill guarantee to Europe, then they single out LHR as a destination. Does anyone know how this compares to other recent rev guarentees? I found this;
MSY $1.4 Mil 3 year to LHR, PiTT $800,000 2 year to RKV and $500,000 to FRA 2year
$10mill seems a bit much for just LHR, maybe they are starting to think with some ambition?


Saying they should give a $10 mil guarantee by comparing it to SFO seems like a stretch. SFO and IND don't even compare, but to each their own.


The comparison was of IND ariports market research supporting the revenue guarantee for the flight being a success at SFO and therefore the same should apply with LHR.

I bet it's part of the same $10 Mill 2 year incentive Gov. Holcomb is try to pass "to Indianapolis and other Indiana cities" and probably is going to mean $1Mil for IND each year minimum if they disperse it evenly between IND, FWA, SBA, EVV and GYY, if not maybe we could see $2 MIll a year but I wouldn't expect more.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:08 pm

IndEagle wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
IndEagle wrote:
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/35005592/chamber-pushing-for-international-flight-funding

Looks like the Indy chamber of commerce is pushing the state for a $10 Mill guarantee to Europe, then they single out LHR as a destination. Does anyone know how this compares to other recent rev guarentees? I found this;
MSY $1.4 Mil 3 year to LHR, PiTT $800,000 2 year to RKV and $500,000 to FRA 2year
$10mill seems a bit much for just LHR, maybe they are starting to think with some ambition?


Saying they should give a $10 mil guarantee by comparing it to SFO seems like a stretch. SFO and IND don't even compare, but to each their own.


The comparison was of IND ariports market research supporting the revenue guarantee for the flight being a success at SFO and therefore the same should apply with LHR.

I bet it's part of the same $10 Mill 2 year incentive Gov. Holcomb is try to pass "to Indianapolis and other Indiana cities" and probably is going to mean $1Mil for IND each year minimum if they disperse it evenly between IND, FWA, SBA, EVV and GYY, if not maybe we could see $2 MIll a year but I wouldn't expect more.


Ohhhh.. I read that wrong. You are right. I thought he was saying SFO used a guarantee to attract service to Europe (which I thought was weird they would need to do that in the first place). Okay, it makes more sense now. I retract my previous statement, haha.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:41 pm

Honestly, the airport has pretty much peaked in its amount of non-stop destinations, other than maybe LHR or PDX I really don't see anywhere where the airport needs to add service. Correct me if I am wrong.
ATL BWI BOS CLT MDW ORD CVG DFW DAL DAB DEN DTW FLL RSW GNV BDL HNL IAH IND MCI LAS LAX SDF MEM MIA MKE MSP BNA EWR HVN MSY JFK LGA MCO SFB PHX PHL PVD RDU RAP RIC SLC STL CPS PIE SEA TPA DCA IAD
 
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nikeson13
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:25 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Honestly, the airport has pretty much peaked in its amount of non-stop destinations, other than maybe LHR or PDX I really don't see anywhere where the airport needs to add service. Correct me if I am wrong.

I'd say yes and no. While there is a lot of direct flights, many have horrible timings, are seasonal, or simply do not have enough capacity. If you look at the current route map, which I made here, you can see theres a pretty good coverage but one must recall that many of these are seasonal or 1x or less daily. Personally, I fly to the Bay Area from a bit north of IND many times a year, but I often go to ORD since its much cheaper, have more flight options than the awful UA flight at 6am, and IND-xxx-bay area barely saves me time more often than not. Adding more capacity on some direct routes versus pushing everyone thru the major hubs is something that I would like to see from IND in the future.
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:27 am

Looks like IND is finally getting serious about London service. They sat on their hands for a long time. Current leadership seems much more aggressive in landing new service. Nice to see the Chamber getting involved. Eli Lilly could step up and put some money into this effort and get us the service in a hurry. They are the one company that could make the biggest difference. Lilly has always been proactive when it comes to improving Indy.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:37 am

Indy wrote:
Looks like IND is finally getting serious about London service. They sat on their hands for a long time. Current leadership seems much more aggressive in landing new service. Nice to see the Chamber getting involved. Eli Lilly could step up and put some money into this effort and get us the service in a hurry. They are the one company that could make the biggest difference. Lilly has always been proactive when it comes to improving Indy.


Yeah it can't come soon enough, with PIT, BDL, and PVD recently getting TATL service I think indy should have service too. However, it looks like it will probably be a discount carrier like WOW, Icelandair, or Norwegian because it will be hard to convince BA that British tourists would come to Indy outside of the month of May. Even with the support of companies like Eli Lilly, Cummins, Rolls-Royce, and Roche, but I might be wrong.
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:58 am

Is Indy in range to Europe on a 757 or is it going to have to be a 787 or bigger?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:03 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Is Indy in range to Europe on a 757 or is it going to have to be a 787 or bigger?


757 is too close to the limit of range, so it is dangerous to fly all the way to europe from indy. The a321neo is another alternative to the 787
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:00 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Is Indy in range to Europe on a 757 or is it going to have to be a 787 or bigger?


757 is too close to the limit of range, so it is dangerous to fly all the way to europe from indy. The a321neo is another alternative to the 787


Okay, that is what I figured. I think the lack of smaller airplanes that can make the trip is why a lot of midwest cities don't have service. I also think the 787 (and a321neo) will change that but we just have to wait for enough to be produced to get service. I think it is a matter of time before BNA, STL, IND, etc get service once they planes become available.
 
IndEagle
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:03 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Is Indy in range to Europe on a 757 or is it going to have to be a 787 or bigger?


757 is too close to the limit of range, so it is dangerous to fly all the way to europe from indy. The a321neo is another alternative to the 787


I am surprised. LHR is at 3467nmi and the 757-200 is rated at 3915 a difference of 448nmi. How much extra range do they need?

Condor runs 767'ers, not the newest plane, but they have the range to FRA
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:29 pm

IndEagle wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Is Indy in range to Europe on a 757 or is it going to have to be a 787 or bigger?


757 is too close to the limit of range, so it is dangerous to fly all the way to europe from indy. The a321neo is another alternative to the 787


I am surprised. LHR is at 3467nmi and the 757-200 is rated at 3915 a difference of 448nmi. How much extra range do they need?

Condor runs 767'ers, not the newest plane, but they have the range to FRA


In winter, with a headwind, they sometimes have to stop for fuel in Maine going from LHR to New York. So if they can't even make it to New York sometimes, I would think IND is out of range all the time. I wasn't sure though, so that is why I asked if they had ever flown from IND to Europe.

http://mashable.com/2015/01/09/boeing-7 ... aK2OcHvmqG

The 767 also has to have more passengers than a 787. That is why I don't think they are flying from many midsized midwest airports to Europe. Range is there on plenty of big planes but finding a plane that can make the route that isn't too big for demand, is the issue.
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:50 pm

I think it will be a wide body jet when it happens. It will be either a 767 or a 787. Even if the seats don't get filled, IND has a huge cargo operation and it shouldn't be too difficult to secure contracts that keep the belly full of cargo. This will also help guarantee a profitable route. This, as much as corporate backing, will eventually secure LHR service and maybe even one day Asia service.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
IndEagle
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:01 am

Speaking of Asia service, over on the PIT thread, they just landed charter service with a tour company affiliated with Hainan Airlines. Could charter service be a good way to start tatl or tpac service from IND?
 
IndEagle
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:20 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Honestly, the airport has pretty much peaked in its amount of non-stop destinations, other than maybe LHR or PDX I really don't see anywhere where the airport needs to add service. Correct me if I am wrong.


Here quick list of destinations IND is targeting for domestic service from an article last Aug;

next 2 priorities -SAN,PDX
others-SNA,SJC,SMF,ONT,AUS,SAT,BDL,JAX,PVD,PBI,SJU

Since then WN is start SAN June (seasonal), but wound't be surprised if either they continue or AS picks it up and G4 is stating AUS in May.

http://www.wthr.com/article/indianapoli ... stinations

Other destinations that have close o/d numbers may become more relevant if we can get some for from them for an international flight.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:44 am

IndEagle wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Honestly, the airport has pretty much peaked in its amount of non-stop destinations, other than maybe LHR or PDX I really don't see anywhere where the airport needs to add service. Correct me if I am wrong.


Here quick list of destinations IND is targeting for domestic service from an article last Aug;

next 2 priorities -SAN,PDX
others-SNA,SJC,SMF,ONT,AUS,SAT,BDL,JAX,PVD,PBI,SJU

Since then WN is start SAN June (seasonal), but wound't be surprised if either they continue or AS picks it up and G4 is stating AUS in May.

http://www.wthr.com/article/indianapoli ... stinations

Other destinations that have close o/d numbers may become more relevant if we can get some for from them for an international flight.


Okay lets be up front about this, Indianapolis is not getting nonstop to PVD, ONT, SMF, SJC, SNA, SJU, BDL, or SAT until Indianapolis becomes a connecting city for an airline. There isn't enough demand from Indianapolis to 7 different destinations in California, plus those routes would dilute the routes indy already has to SAN, LAX, and SFO. Same thing goes for PVD and BDL, I just flew in yesterday to BOS and drove to Providence, there is no need for a direct flight when it is only an hour drive from PVD to BOS. I hope IND gets more frequencies and routes to AUS, SAN, PDX, and I hope it is WN, B6, or AS instead of F9 and G4.
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:50 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Okay lets be up front about this, Indianapolis is not getting nonstop to PVD, ONT, SMF, SJC, SNA, SJU, BDL, or SAT until Indianapolis becomes a connecting city for an airline. There isn't enough demand from Indianapolis to 7 different destinations in California, plus those routes would dilute the routes indy already has to SAN, LAX, and SFO. Same thing goes for PVD and BDL, I just flew in yesterday to BOS and drove to Providence, there is no need for a direct flight when it is only an hour drive from PVD to BOS. I hope IND gets more frequencies and routes to AUS, SAN, PDX, and I hope it is WN, B6, or AS instead of F9 and G4.


You may need to rethink that statement. IND has had nonstop service to BDL and SAT when NW was still around. Those were strictly O/D based routes. Also, I believe TZ used to fly SJU out of IND as well. But I would agree on the California routes. Ontario? Not going to happen.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:47 pm

Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Okay lets be up front about this, Indianapolis is not getting nonstop to PVD, ONT, SMF, SJC, SNA, SJU, BDL, or SAT until Indianapolis becomes a connecting city for an airline. There isn't enough demand from Indianapolis to 7 different destinations in California, plus those routes would dilute the routes indy already has to SAN, LAX, and SFO. Same thing goes for PVD and BDL, I just flew in yesterday to BOS and drove to Providence, there is no need for a direct flight when it is only an hour drive from PVD to BOS. I hope IND gets more frequencies and routes to AUS, SAN, PDX, and I hope it is WN, B6, or AS instead of F9 and G4.


You may need to rethink that statement. IND has had nonstop service to BDL and SAT when NW was still around. Those were strictly O/D based routes. Also, I believe TZ used to fly SJU out of IND as well. But I would agree on the California routes. Ontario? Not going to happen.


Again to my point NW had a focus city in Indianapolis, and TZ had a hub in Indianapolis therefore they had reason to invest in those routes to keep the locals happy. Its hard for an airline to come into indy now and do what NWA and ATA did, as F9 and G4 have sucked in all the leisure traffic, plus airports like ORD, MDW, CVG, and STL are so close many airlines will be reluctant to set up a focus city/hub so close to major connecting points. The best hope for flights like BDL and SAT to return is for AS or B6 to setup a midwest hub in indy, it could work but it is definately a long shot. Otherwise WN in indy will be limited by the proximity to STL and MDW.
ATL BWI BOS CLT MDW ORD CVG DFW DAL DAB DEN DTW FLL RSW GNV BDL HNL IAH IND MCI LAS LAX SDF MEM MIA MKE MSP BNA EWR HVN MSY JFK LGA MCO SFB PHX PHL PVD RDU RAP RIC SLC STL CPS PIE SEA TPA DCA IAD
 
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:55 pm

The bad thing about Indy, and I can relate this to DTW, is that it's bracketed between WN's hub at STL, DL's hub at CVG, and the mega hub at ORD. IND would have better numbers if leakage wasn't a big issue, but it is otherwise I could see BDL or SAT. The current terminal has the gate space for an airline to build at most a focus city. TATL and TPAC will be difficult but no less doable.
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IndEagle
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:46 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
IndEagle wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Honestly, the airport has pretty much peaked in its amount of non-stop destinations, other than maybe LHR or PDX I really don't see anywhere where the airport needs to add service. Correct me if I am wrong.


Here quick list of destinations IND is targeting for domestic service from an article last Aug;

next 2 priorities -SAN,PDX
others-SNA,SJC,SMF,ONT,AUS,SAT,BDL,JAX,PVD,PBI,SJU

Since then WN is start SAN June (seasonal), but wound't be surprised if either they continue or AS picks it up and G4 is stating AUS in May.

http://www.wthr.com/article/indianapoli ... stinations

Other destinations that have close o/d numbers may become more relevant if we can get some for from them for an international flight.


Okay lets be up front about this, Indianapolis is not getting nonstop to PVD, ONT, SMF, SJC, SNA, SJU, BDL, or SAT until Indianapolis becomes a connecting city for an airline. There isn't enough demand from Indianapolis to 7 different destinations in California, plus those routes would dilute the routes indy already has to SAN, LAX, and SFO. Same thing goes for PVD and BDL, I just flew in yesterday to BOS and drove to Providence, there is no need for a direct flight when it is only an hour drive from PVD to BOS. I hope IND gets more frequencies and routes to AUS, SAN, PDX, and I hope it is WN, B6, or AS instead of F9 and G4.


It seems a bit much for me as well, yet IND has it on their list, and I bet they have the numbers to back it up if they published it. To be fair, we have 12 destinations in about the same geographic area on the east coast; BOS,LGA,EWR,JFK,PHL,BWI,IAD,DCA,RDU,CLT,SAV,JAX
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:48 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Again to my point NW had a focus city in Indianapolis, and TZ had a hub in Indianapolis therefore they had reason to invest in those routes to keep the locals happy. Its hard for an airline to come into indy now and do what NWA and ATA did, as F9 and G4 have sucked in all the leisure traffic, plus airports like ORD, MDW, CVG, and STL are so close many airlines will be reluctant to set up a focus city/hub so close to major connecting points. The best hope for flights like BDL and SAT to return is for AS or B6 to setup a midwest hub in indy, it could work but it is definately a long shot. Otherwise WN in indy will be limited by the proximity to STL and MDW.


NW had a focus city but a focus city is NOT a hub. It did not rely on feed to make routes like BDL and SAT work. An airline like WN could make routes like that work out of IND. TZ had a hub but it was a hub in name only until the very end. Near the very end they tried to make it a legit hub but it was far too late. SJU was basically an O/D route. Much the way we have CUN service now. And I would not get hung up on the proximity to MDW and STL. That doesn't stop WN from serving a local market pretty much anywhere. If the demand is there they will fly it. The proximity of TPA to MCO doesn't stop WN from serving TPA. Actually, I don't think AS or B6 could set up a hub in Indy. They waited too long. There was a window of opportunity where it could have been done easily but they waited too long. The best unserved and under served markets have been picked up. If WN were to cut back then maybe it would be doable.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:19 pm

Even though some Cincinnati-area travelers have flown on Southwest out of IND, Southwest is going to be launching nonstop service from Cincinnati to Baltimore and Chicago Midway on June 4th.

Southwest currently operates 4 nonstops from IND to DEN and 3 nonstops from IND to LAS. Will Southwest cut any of its IND-DEN or IND-LAS nonstops if Southwest adds CVG-DEN or CVG-LAS nonstops?
 
boeing808
Posts: 18
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:29 pm

There have been times I have driven to Cincinnati to fly out bc it is sometimes much cheaper. It's easy to get to as well. And the money saved is sometimes still more than driving up 65 to IND.
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 1472
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:22 pm

IndEagle wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
IndEagle wrote:

Here quick list of destinations IND is targeting for domestic service from an article last Aug;

next 2 priorities -SAN,PDX
others-SNA,SJC,SMF,ONT,AUS,SAT,BDL,JAX,PVD,PBI,SJU

Since then WN is start SAN June (seasonal), but wound't be surprised if either they continue or AS picks it up and G4 is stating AUS in May.

http://www.wthr.com/article/indianapoli ... stinations

Other destinations that have close o/d numbers may become more relevant if we can get some for from them for an international flight.


Okay lets be up front about this, Indianapolis is not getting nonstop to PVD, ONT, SMF, SJC, SNA, SJU, BDL, or SAT until Indianapolis becomes a connecting city for an airline. There isn't enough demand from Indianapolis to 7 different destinations in California, plus those routes would dilute the routes indy already has to SAN, LAX, and SFO. Same thing goes for PVD and BDL, I just flew in yesterday to BOS and drove to Providence, there is no need for a direct flight when it is only an hour drive from PVD to BOS. I hope IND gets more frequencies and routes to AUS, SAN, PDX, and I hope it is WN, B6, or AS instead of F9 and G4.


It seems a bit much for me as well, yet IND has it on their list, and I bet they have the numbers to back it up if they published it. To be fair, we have 12 destinations in about the same geographic area on the east coast; BOS,LGA,EWR,JFK,PHL,BWI,IAD,DCA,RDU,CLT,SAV,JAX


ahahahaha, you can't seriously say that JAX and BOS are in the same geographic area! That's like saying ANC and LAX are in the same geographic area. JAX and SAV are leisure destinations and only run by 2-3 times a week I believe. CLT, BOS, BWI, PHL, EWR, JFK, IAD, DCA, LGA, and RDU are either hubs or focus cities for at least one major airline so of course the airlines will have service to indy.
ATL BWI BOS CLT MDW ORD CVG DFW DAL DAB DEN DTW FLL RSW GNV BDL HNL IAH IND MCI LAS LAX SDF MEM MIA MKE MSP BNA EWR HVN MSY JFK LGA MCO SFB PHX PHL PVD RDU RAP RIC SLC STL CPS PIE SEA TPA DCA IAD
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:44 pm

Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Again to my point NW had a focus city in Indianapolis, and TZ had a hub in Indianapolis therefore they had reason to invest in those routes to keep the locals happy. Its hard for an airline to come into indy now and do what NWA and ATA did, as F9 and G4 have sucked in all the leisure traffic, plus airports like ORD, MDW, CVG, and STL are so close many airlines will be reluctant to set up a focus city/hub so close to major connecting points. The best hope for flights like BDL and SAT to return is for AS or B6 to setup a midwest hub in indy, it could work but it is definately a long shot. Otherwise WN in indy will be limited by the proximity to STL and MDW.


NW had a focus city but a focus city is NOT a hub. It did not rely on feed to make routes like BDL and SAT work. An airline like WN could make routes like that work out of IND. TZ had a hub but it was a hub in name only until the very end. Near the very end they tried to make it a legit hub but it was far too late. SJU was basically an O/D route. Much the way we have CUN service now. And I would not get hung up on the proximity to MDW and STL. That doesn't stop WN from serving a local market pretty much anywhere. If the demand is there they will fly it. The proximity of TPA to MCO doesn't stop WN from serving TPA. Actually, I don't think AS or B6 could set up a hub in Indy. They waited too long. There was a window of opportunity where it could have been done easily but they waited too long. The best unserved and under served markets have been picked up. If WN were to cut back then maybe it would be doable.


First, there is a difference between TPA and MCO, and MDW and IND. The difference is TPA is the 18th largest metro in the US and one of the largest tourists destinations in the country. IND is 34th largest metro and has no where near the amount of tourism that TPA does. Second, at no time did I say that NW relied on connecting traffic to keep those routes going, I was saying that when an airline has a focus city in an airport they are significantly more likely to try and make routes like IND-SAT/BDL/SJU work. Third, why do you think AS or B6 would not be able to set up a hub or even focus city, is it because of WN/F9/G4 because I think AS/B6 have more to offer than those LCCs and ULCCs and could have better load factors.
ATL BWI BOS CLT MDW ORD CVG DFW DAL DAB DEN DTW FLL RSW GNV BDL HNL IAH IND MCI LAS LAX SDF MEM MIA MKE MSP BNA EWR HVN MSY JFK LGA MCO SFB PHX PHL PVD RDU RAP RIC SLC STL CPS PIE SEA TPA DCA IAD
 
Indy
Posts: 4348
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:05 am

Midwestindy wrote:
First, there is a difference between TPA and MCO, and MDW and IND. The difference is TPA is the 18th largest metro in the US and one of the largest tourists destinations in the country. IND is 34th largest metro and has no where near the amount of tourism that TPA does. Second, at no time did I say that NW relied on connecting traffic to keep those routes going, I was saying that when an airline has a focus city in an airport they are significantly more likely to try and make routes like IND-SAT/BDL/SJU work. Third, why do you think AS or B6 would not be able to set up a hub or even focus city, is it because of WN/F9/G4 because I think AS/B6 have more to offer than those LCCs and ULCCs and could have better load factors.


When it comes to MCO/TPA and MDW/IND... size doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is whether or not there is demand to fill seats. DL couldn't make DTW & CVG work but WN can make MDW & STL work. If the demand wasn't there then STL wouldn't work either.

I don't think AS or B6 would work because of this.... what routes could they even start out of IND now? The good routes for the most part already have one or two carriers on them. Not very favorable for a new carrier to come in and try to start a hub. A few years ago there were huge holes all over the IND network. It would have been easy to come in and set up shop.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:13 pm

I'm shocked that to this day, G4 hasn't started IND-AZA.

If they can make it work from CVG (and if you want to throw in smaller markets, SBN and FWA), they can make it work from IND. Yes, WN is on the IND-PHX route and AA flies the route as well, but there's no ULCC flying to either Phoenix airport from IND. G4's success in IND has proven that legacies, LCCs, and ULCCs can compete on the same route in the IND market. What's taking G4 so long?
All opinions stated are strictly personal and not those of the FWACAA or my employers.
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 1472
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:03 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
I'm shocked that to this day, G4 hasn't started IND-AZA.

If they can make it work from CVG (and if you want to throw in smaller markets, SBN and FWA), they can make it work from IND. Yes, WN is on the IND-PHX route and AA flies the route as well, but there's no ULCC flying to either Phoenix airport from IND. G4's success in IND has proven that legacies, LCCs, and ULCCs can compete on the same route in the IND market. What's taking G4 so long?


It's definitely surprising, but then again I really don't like G4 so I don't mind them not having an extra route. One thing I have noticed from G4, is that unlike F9 and WN, they try to avoid competing with the legacies in IND. The only route they compete with a legacy on is to SFB, and DL only flies a CRJ on that route to MCO so it is a lot easier to compete with. Ultimately, I think they will add AZA and I think they could probably make it work if it were only 3-4 times a week.
ATL BWI BOS CLT MDW ORD CVG DFW DAL DAB DEN DTW FLL RSW GNV BDL HNL IAH IND MCI LAS LAX SDF MEM MIA MKE MSP BNA EWR HVN MSY JFK LGA MCO SFB PHX PHL PVD RDU RAP RIC SLC STL CPS PIE SEA TPA DCA IAD
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2680
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:04 am

Midwestindy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
I'm shocked that to this day, G4 hasn't started IND-AZA.

If they can make it work from CVG (and if you want to throw in smaller markets, SBN and FWA), they can make it work from IND. Yes, WN is on the IND-PHX route and AA flies the route as well, but there's no ULCC flying to either Phoenix airport from IND. G4's success in IND has proven that legacies, LCCs, and ULCCs can compete on the same route in the IND market. What's taking G4 so long?


It's definitely surprising, but then again I really don't like G4 so I don't mind them not having an extra route. One thing I have noticed from G4, is that unlike F9 and WN, they try to avoid competing with the legacies in IND. The only route they compete with a legacy on is to SFB, and DL only flies a CRJ on that route to MCO so it is a lot easier to compete with. Ultimately, I think they will add AZA and I think they could probably make it work if it were only 3-4 times a week.


DL flies IND-RSW seasonally, which competes with G4 to PGD and both WN and F9 to RSW. DL also flies IND-MIA seasonally, which competes with AA's MIA flights plus FLL flights from G4 and WN.

So make that three markets.
All opinions stated are strictly personal and not those of the FWACAA or my employers.
 
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cvgComair
Posts: 1018
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:41 am

Midwestindy wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
I'm shocked that to this day, G4 hasn't started IND-AZA.

If they can make it work from CVG (and if you want to throw in smaller markets, SBN and FWA), they can make it work from IND. Yes, WN is on the IND-PHX route and AA flies the route as well, but there's no ULCC flying to either Phoenix airport from IND. G4's success in IND has proven that legacies, LCCs, and ULCCs can compete on the same route in the IND market. What's taking G4 so long?


It's definitely surprising, but then again I really don't like G4 so I don't mind them not having an extra route. One thing I have noticed from G4, is that unlike F9 and WN, they try to avoid competing with the legacies in IND. The only route they compete with a legacy on is to SFB, and DL only flies a CRJ on that route to MCO so it is a lot easier to compete with. Ultimately, I think they will add AZA and I think they could probably make it work if it were only 3-4 times a week.


G4 has slowed its growth in Phoenix to almost nothing and has only added a few routes is the last 1-2 years (CLE being the only one I can think of, and its seasonal, plus I am not so sure it will last long). Even CVG-AZA is still only served 2x/week, and its one of the first routes they added from CVG! Even G4's upcoming CVG-DEN route will have more frequency than CVG-AZA, starting out at 3x/week. While AZA is the obvious hole in G4's network from IND, I am not so sure I see IND getting an AZA flight for the simple reason that IND already has a lot of capacity to Phoenix, up to 3x/day on WN and up to 3x/day on AA! That is by far the highest in the region (CMH has 3, CVG has 1.3, CLE has 2.6, DAY has 0, SBN has 0.3, and FWA has 0.3). I think IND would be a great candidate for G4 to start IND-BWI/EWR, as IND has a lot less competition and capacity on both routes compared to CVG, which has both routes (CVG-BWI will surpass IND once WN starts the route).
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