Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Indy wrote:Yes but I though IND deserves its own so we can free up space for those talking about EVV, SBN and FWA.BTW wasn't there already an Indiana aviation thread?
COSPN wrote:It's different competition as to that of a hub carrier, at least AS is the 2nd carrier instead of 3rd.Yea wow I don't see how AS can make IND-SFO work.. with UA on the route
Indy wrote:It looks like DL has pretty well gut seats to MSP from IND and shifted them to DTW.
BDL757 wrote:Indy wrote:It looks like DL has pretty well gut seats to MSP from IND and shifted them to DTW.
I'm not quite sure why you think MSP should have the 757 vs DTW but as mentioned its probably utilization flying. Once peak summer rolls around IND to MSP will have more capacity than DTW and have all mainline flying:
(Using 27JUL17)
DTW- 7x: 2x 717, 3x CR7, 2x CR9 or roughly 567 seats
MSP- 5x: 3x 319, 2x 320 or roughly 716 seats
IndEagle wrote:http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/35005592/chamber-pushing-for-international-flight-funding
Looks like the Indy chamber of commerce is pushing the state for a $10 Mill guarantee to Europe, then they single out LHR as a destination. Does anyone know how this compares to other recent rev guarentees? I found this;
MSY $1.4 Mil 3 year to LHR, PiTT $800,000 2 year to RKV and $500,000 to FRA 2year
$10mill seems a bit much for just LHR, maybe they are starting to think with some ambition?
fsafsx wrote:Will we see B6 come into Indy any time soon? Id like to see tpac or tatl here soon im getting bored of no announcements for service.
IndEagle wrote:http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/35005592/chamber-pushing-for-international-flight-funding
Looks like the Indy chamber of commerce is pushing the state for a $10 Mill guarantee to Europe, then they single out LHR as a destination. Does anyone know how this compares to other recent rev guarentees? I found this;
MSY $1.4 Mil 3 year to LHR, PiTT $800,000 2 year to RKV and $500,000 to FRA 2year
$10mill seems a bit much for just LHR, maybe they are starting to think with some ambition?
Jshank83 wrote:IndEagle wrote:http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/35005592/chamber-pushing-for-international-flight-funding
Looks like the Indy chamber of commerce is pushing the state for a $10 Mill guarantee to Europe, then they single out LHR as a destination. Does anyone know how this compares to other recent rev guarentees? I found this;
MSY $1.4 Mil 3 year to LHR, PiTT $800,000 2 year to RKV and $500,000 to FRA 2year
$10mill seems a bit much for just LHR, maybe they are starting to think with some ambition?
Saying they should give a $10 mil guarantee by comparing it to SFO seems like a stretch. SFO and IND don't even compare, but to each their own.
IndEagle wrote:Jshank83 wrote:IndEagle wrote:http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/35005592/chamber-pushing-for-international-flight-funding
Looks like the Indy chamber of commerce is pushing the state for a $10 Mill guarantee to Europe, then they single out LHR as a destination. Does anyone know how this compares to other recent rev guarentees? I found this;
MSY $1.4 Mil 3 year to LHR, PiTT $800,000 2 year to RKV and $500,000 to FRA 2year
$10mill seems a bit much for just LHR, maybe they are starting to think with some ambition?
Saying they should give a $10 mil guarantee by comparing it to SFO seems like a stretch. SFO and IND don't even compare, but to each their own.
The comparison was of IND ariports market research supporting the revenue guarantee for the flight being a success at SFO and therefore the same should apply with LHR.
I bet it's part of the same $10 Mill 2 year incentive Gov. Holcomb is try to pass "to Indianapolis and other Indiana cities" and probably is going to mean $1Mil for IND each year minimum if they disperse it evenly between IND, FWA, SBA, EVV and GYY, if not maybe we could see $2 MIll a year but I wouldn't expect more.
Midwestindy wrote:Honestly, the airport has pretty much peaked in its amount of non-stop destinations, other than maybe LHR or PDX I really don't see anywhere where the airport needs to add service. Correct me if I am wrong.
Indy wrote:Looks like IND is finally getting serious about London service. They sat on their hands for a long time. Current leadership seems much more aggressive in landing new service. Nice to see the Chamber getting involved. Eli Lilly could step up and put some money into this effort and get us the service in a hurry. They are the one company that could make the biggest difference. Lilly has always been proactive when it comes to improving Indy.
Jshank83 wrote:Is Indy in range to Europe on a 757 or is it going to have to be a 787 or bigger?
Midwestindy wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Is Indy in range to Europe on a 757 or is it going to have to be a 787 or bigger?
757 is too close to the limit of range, so it is dangerous to fly all the way to europe from indy. The a321neo is another alternative to the 787
Midwestindy wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Is Indy in range to Europe on a 757 or is it going to have to be a 787 or bigger?
757 is too close to the limit of range, so it is dangerous to fly all the way to europe from indy. The a321neo is another alternative to the 787
IndEagle wrote:Midwestindy wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Is Indy in range to Europe on a 757 or is it going to have to be a 787 or bigger?
757 is too close to the limit of range, so it is dangerous to fly all the way to europe from indy. The a321neo is another alternative to the 787
I am surprised. LHR is at 3467nmi and the 757-200 is rated at 3915 a difference of 448nmi. How much extra range do they need?
Condor runs 767'ers, not the newest plane, but they have the range to FRA
Midwestindy wrote:Honestly, the airport has pretty much peaked in its amount of non-stop destinations, other than maybe LHR or PDX I really don't see anywhere where the airport needs to add service. Correct me if I am wrong.
IndEagle wrote:Midwestindy wrote:Honestly, the airport has pretty much peaked in its amount of non-stop destinations, other than maybe LHR or PDX I really don't see anywhere where the airport needs to add service. Correct me if I am wrong.
Here quick list of destinations IND is targeting for domestic service from an article last Aug;
next 2 priorities -SAN,PDX
others-SNA,SJC,SMF,ONT,AUS,SAT,BDL,JAX,PVD,PBI,SJU
Since then WN is start SAN June (seasonal), but wound't be surprised if either they continue or AS picks it up and G4 is stating AUS in May.
http://www.wthr.com/article/indianapoli ... stinations
Other destinations that have close o/d numbers may become more relevant if we can get some for from them for an international flight.
Midwestindy wrote:Okay lets be up front about this, Indianapolis is not getting nonstop to PVD, ONT, SMF, SJC, SNA, SJU, BDL, or SAT until Indianapolis becomes a connecting city for an airline. There isn't enough demand from Indianapolis to 7 different destinations in California, plus those routes would dilute the routes indy already has to SAN, LAX, and SFO. Same thing goes for PVD and BDL, I just flew in yesterday to BOS and drove to Providence, there is no need for a direct flight when it is only an hour drive from PVD to BOS. I hope IND gets more frequencies and routes to AUS, SAN, PDX, and I hope it is WN, B6, or AS instead of F9 and G4.
Indy wrote:Midwestindy wrote:Okay lets be up front about this, Indianapolis is not getting nonstop to PVD, ONT, SMF, SJC, SNA, SJU, BDL, or SAT until Indianapolis becomes a connecting city for an airline. There isn't enough demand from Indianapolis to 7 different destinations in California, plus those routes would dilute the routes indy already has to SAN, LAX, and SFO. Same thing goes for PVD and BDL, I just flew in yesterday to BOS and drove to Providence, there is no need for a direct flight when it is only an hour drive from PVD to BOS. I hope IND gets more frequencies and routes to AUS, SAN, PDX, and I hope it is WN, B6, or AS instead of F9 and G4.
You may need to rethink that statement. IND has had nonstop service to BDL and SAT when NW was still around. Those were strictly O/D based routes. Also, I believe TZ used to fly SJU out of IND as well. But I would agree on the California routes. Ontario? Not going to happen.
Midwestindy wrote:IndEagle wrote:Midwestindy wrote:Honestly, the airport has pretty much peaked in its amount of non-stop destinations, other than maybe LHR or PDX I really don't see anywhere where the airport needs to add service. Correct me if I am wrong.
Here quick list of destinations IND is targeting for domestic service from an article last Aug;
next 2 priorities -SAN,PDX
others-SNA,SJC,SMF,ONT,AUS,SAT,BDL,JAX,PVD,PBI,SJU
Since then WN is start SAN June (seasonal), but wound't be surprised if either they continue or AS picks it up and G4 is stating AUS in May.
http://www.wthr.com/article/indianapoli ... stinations
Other destinations that have close o/d numbers may become more relevant if we can get some for from them for an international flight.
Okay lets be up front about this, Indianapolis is not getting nonstop to PVD, ONT, SMF, SJC, SNA, SJU, BDL, or SAT until Indianapolis becomes a connecting city for an airline. There isn't enough demand from Indianapolis to 7 different destinations in California, plus those routes would dilute the routes indy already has to SAN, LAX, and SFO. Same thing goes for PVD and BDL, I just flew in yesterday to BOS and drove to Providence, there is no need for a direct flight when it is only an hour drive from PVD to BOS. I hope IND gets more frequencies and routes to AUS, SAN, PDX, and I hope it is WN, B6, or AS instead of F9 and G4.
Midwestindy wrote:Again to my point NW had a focus city in Indianapolis, and TZ had a hub in Indianapolis therefore they had reason to invest in those routes to keep the locals happy. Its hard for an airline to come into indy now and do what NWA and ATA did, as F9 and G4 have sucked in all the leisure traffic, plus airports like ORD, MDW, CVG, and STL are so close many airlines will be reluctant to set up a focus city/hub so close to major connecting points. The best hope for flights like BDL and SAT to return is for AS or B6 to setup a midwest hub in indy, it could work but it is definately a long shot. Otherwise WN in indy will be limited by the proximity to STL and MDW.
IndEagle wrote:Midwestindy wrote:IndEagle wrote:
Here quick list of destinations IND is targeting for domestic service from an article last Aug;
next 2 priorities -SAN,PDX
others-SNA,SJC,SMF,ONT,AUS,SAT,BDL,JAX,PVD,PBI,SJU
Since then WN is start SAN June (seasonal), but wound't be surprised if either they continue or AS picks it up and G4 is stating AUS in May.
http://www.wthr.com/article/indianapoli ... stinations
Other destinations that have close o/d numbers may become more relevant if we can get some for from them for an international flight.
Okay lets be up front about this, Indianapolis is not getting nonstop to PVD, ONT, SMF, SJC, SNA, SJU, BDL, or SAT until Indianapolis becomes a connecting city for an airline. There isn't enough demand from Indianapolis to 7 different destinations in California, plus those routes would dilute the routes indy already has to SAN, LAX, and SFO. Same thing goes for PVD and BDL, I just flew in yesterday to BOS and drove to Providence, there is no need for a direct flight when it is only an hour drive from PVD to BOS. I hope IND gets more frequencies and routes to AUS, SAN, PDX, and I hope it is WN, B6, or AS instead of F9 and G4.
It seems a bit much for me as well, yet IND has it on their list, and I bet they have the numbers to back it up if they published it. To be fair, we have 12 destinations in about the same geographic area on the east coast; BOS,LGA,EWR,JFK,PHL,BWI,IAD,DCA,RDU,CLT,SAV,JAX
Indy wrote:Midwestindy wrote:Again to my point NW had a focus city in Indianapolis, and TZ had a hub in Indianapolis therefore they had reason to invest in those routes to keep the locals happy. Its hard for an airline to come into indy now and do what NWA and ATA did, as F9 and G4 have sucked in all the leisure traffic, plus airports like ORD, MDW, CVG, and STL are so close many airlines will be reluctant to set up a focus city/hub so close to major connecting points. The best hope for flights like BDL and SAT to return is for AS or B6 to setup a midwest hub in indy, it could work but it is definately a long shot. Otherwise WN in indy will be limited by the proximity to STL and MDW.
NW had a focus city but a focus city is NOT a hub. It did not rely on feed to make routes like BDL and SAT work. An airline like WN could make routes like that work out of IND. TZ had a hub but it was a hub in name only until the very end. Near the very end they tried to make it a legit hub but it was far too late. SJU was basically an O/D route. Much the way we have CUN service now. And I would not get hung up on the proximity to MDW and STL. That doesn't stop WN from serving a local market pretty much anywhere. If the demand is there they will fly it. The proximity of TPA to MCO doesn't stop WN from serving TPA. Actually, I don't think AS or B6 could set up a hub in Indy. They waited too long. There was a window of opportunity where it could have been done easily but they waited too long. The best unserved and under served markets have been picked up. If WN were to cut back then maybe it would be doable.
Midwestindy wrote:First, there is a difference between TPA and MCO, and MDW and IND. The difference is TPA is the 18th largest metro in the US and one of the largest tourists destinations in the country. IND is 34th largest metro and has no where near the amount of tourism that TPA does. Second, at no time did I say that NW relied on connecting traffic to keep those routes going, I was saying that when an airline has a focus city in an airport they are significantly more likely to try and make routes like IND-SAT/BDL/SJU work. Third, why do you think AS or B6 would not be able to set up a hub or even focus city, is it because of WN/F9/G4 because I think AS/B6 have more to offer than those LCCs and ULCCs and could have better load factors.
FWAERJ wrote:I'm shocked that to this day, G4 hasn't started IND-AZA.
If they can make it work from CVG (and if you want to throw in smaller markets, SBN and FWA), they can make it work from IND. Yes, WN is on the IND-PHX route and AA flies the route as well, but there's no ULCC flying to either Phoenix airport from IND. G4's success in IND has proven that legacies, LCCs, and ULCCs can compete on the same route in the IND market. What's taking G4 so long?
Midwestindy wrote:FWAERJ wrote:I'm shocked that to this day, G4 hasn't started IND-AZA.
If they can make it work from CVG (and if you want to throw in smaller markets, SBN and FWA), they can make it work from IND. Yes, WN is on the IND-PHX route and AA flies the route as well, but there's no ULCC flying to either Phoenix airport from IND. G4's success in IND has proven that legacies, LCCs, and ULCCs can compete on the same route in the IND market. What's taking G4 so long?
It's definitely surprising, but then again I really don't like G4 so I don't mind them not having an extra route. One thing I have noticed from G4, is that unlike F9 and WN, they try to avoid competing with the legacies in IND. The only route they compete with a legacy on is to SFB, and DL only flies a CRJ on that route to MCO so it is a lot easier to compete with. Ultimately, I think they will add AZA and I think they could probably make it work if it were only 3-4 times a week.
Midwestindy wrote:FWAERJ wrote:I'm shocked that to this day, G4 hasn't started IND-AZA.
If they can make it work from CVG (and if you want to throw in smaller markets, SBN and FWA), they can make it work from IND. Yes, WN is on the IND-PHX route and AA flies the route as well, but there's no ULCC flying to either Phoenix airport from IND. G4's success in IND has proven that legacies, LCCs, and ULCCs can compete on the same route in the IND market. What's taking G4 so long?
It's definitely surprising, but then again I really don't like G4 so I don't mind them not having an extra route. One thing I have noticed from G4, is that unlike F9 and WN, they try to avoid competing with the legacies in IND. The only route they compete with a legacy on is to SFB, and DL only flies a CRJ on that route to MCO so it is a lot easier to compete with. Ultimately, I think they will add AZA and I think they could probably make it work if it were only 3-4 times a week.