indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:26 pm

I would imagine the incentives from IND have something to do with the 5x weekly as they're really dependent upon how many people they carry on the route. Easier to do it with 5x a week vs. 3x a week, and besides, it helps you build a decent base of passenger support. That said, I won't be surprised if DL tweaks the schedule based on loads if bookings are looking weak/strong.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:35 pm

indygs wrote:
I would imagine the incentives from IND have something to do with the 5x weekly as they're really dependent upon how many people they carry on the route. Easier to do it with 5x a week vs. 3x a week, and besides, it helps you build a decent base of passenger support. That said, I won't be surprised if DL tweaks the schedule based on loads if bookings are looking weak/strong.


I understand the incentives part, but why didn't they just announce 5x weekly two weeks ago? I'm not complaining though...

I wouldn't be surprised if DL upgauges the flight for Indy 500.... I know a lot of airlines upguage Northeast Hubs-IND flights to mainline during the time around indy 500 for all the added European/African/Middle East visitors.
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indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:39 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
indygs wrote:
I would imagine the incentives from IND have something to do with the 5x weekly as they're really dependent upon how many people they carry on the route. Easier to do it with 5x a week vs. 3x a week, and besides, it helps you build a decent base of passenger support. That said, I won't be surprised if DL tweaks the schedule based on loads if bookings are looking weak/strong.


I understand the incentives part, but why didn't they just announce 5x weekly two weeks ago? I'm not complaining though...

I wouldn't be surprised if DL upgauges the flight for Indy 500....


Good question. But honestly that whole announcement a couple weeks back seemed like a rush-job so maybe they simply didn't have it all pulled together and they underpromised so they could overdeliver when the schedule was set. I, too, am not complaining--though I still wouldn't have minded AMS over CDG :)

All good--looking forward to booking on Saturday!
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:16 pm

indygs wrote:
Good question. But honestly that whole announcement a couple weeks back seemed like a rush-job so maybe they simply didn't have it all pulled together and they underpromised so they could overdeliver when the schedule was set. I, too, am not complaining--though I still wouldn't have minded AMS over CDG :)

All good--looking forward to booking on Saturday!


You are booking too? I was originally going to book IND-CDG-DUS but tickets to DUS are so dang expensive right now that I'll likely do IND-CDG-AMS/FRA. I'll be on the May 24th flight :-) In theory because Murphy's Law lol.
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:06 am

Can someone help me understand Delta's really weird ticketing system? I've tried getting a straight answer from their Twitter support but absolutely no luck. What I'm trying to understand is the selection of the premium economy seats on the domestic segments. For example I was looking at IND-CDG. A bunch of routings come up but a number do not list Premium Economy as being available. I can select the economy price and eventually select my seats. I can select the premium economy seat on the DTW-CDG flight for the extra fee but it will not allow me to select one on the IND-DTW flight despite the fact plenty of seats are available. If I look at IND-DTW alone that same flight will come up and allow me to select the premium economy seats. But if I do my initial search requesting premium economy, this one specific IND-DTW-CDG option will not come up. I just cannot make sense of this Delta logic. Why shouldn't I be able to select the premium economy seats on both segments? I can select them in IND-DTW and DTW-CDG but not IND-DTW-CDG with the flight numbers being the same.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:03 am

Indy wrote:
Can someone help me understand Delta's really weird ticketing system? I've tried getting a straight answer from their Twitter support but absteolutely no luck. What I'm trying to understand is the selection of the premium economy seats on the domestic segments. For example I was looking at IND-CDG. A bunch of routings come up but a number do not list Premium Economy as being available. I can select the economy price and eventually select my seats. I can select the premium economy seat on the DTW-CDG flight for the extra fee but it will not allow me to select one on the IND-DTW flight despite the fact plenty of seats are available. If I look at IND-DTW alone that same flight will come up and allow me to select the premium economy seats. But if I do my initial search requesting premium economy, this one specific IND-DTW-CDG option will not come up. I just cannot make sense of this Delta logic. Why shouldn't I be able to select the premium economy seats on both segments? I can select them in IND-DTW and DTW-CDG but not IND-DTW-CDG with the flight numbers being the same.


Can you show the date you are looking at, so I can more easily see what you are referring to because the premium economy seats are usually up there? Usually, if you go to advanced search and under "Search By" click "Show Best Fares For" then choose whatever your preferred class of service is, that usually works.
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:41 pm

I used May 24th and May 31st for the dates. Use IND-CDG as a test routing. Of course the results will change tonight after midnight but you'll see how often that middle column in the search results is unpopulated.
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:32 pm

It's not Premium Economy. It's Comfort Plus on the domestic segments. Huge difference.
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:52 pm

stlgph wrote:
It's not Premium Economy. It's Comfort Plus on the domestic segments. Huge difference.


They can call it whatever they like. The problem is that their system on some routings will not allow me to select the extra legroom seats on the domestic segment but will allow me to select them on the international segment. If I try to select the extra legroom on the domestic segment it basically tells me to pick a different class of ticket. If I do that then the routing I had select is no longer available. If I pick the 3:32pm IND departure and the 8:05am CDG arrival, I cannot get the "Comfort Plus" seat on the IND-DTW segment. I can get the premium economy on the DTW-CDG flight. If I just book the 3:32pm flight to DTW without the transatlantic connection I can get the Comfort Plus seat. That is where Delta logic is failing. I wonder if I could simply upgrade the IND-DTW seats to Comfort Plus after booking? Not that I am going to book this route. Just came across this really weird Delta quirk.
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indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:13 pm

Indy wrote:
indygs wrote:
Good question. But honestly that whole announcement a couple weeks back seemed like a rush-job so maybe they simply didn't have it all pulled together and they underpromised so they could overdeliver when the schedule was set. I, too, am not complaining--though I still wouldn't have minded AMS over CDG :)

All good--looking forward to booking on Saturday!


You are booking too? I was originally going to book IND-CDG-DUS but tickets to DUS are so dang expensive right now that I'll likely do IND-CDG-AMS/FRA. I'll be on the May 24th flight :-) In theory because Murphy's Law lol.


Yes. It'll be a mileage burn just to be on that first flight!
 
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:16 pm

I don't think there will be any room for non revs on the inaugural CDG, darn..
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:39 pm

On American, I went to book Sydney from JFK, I could book in Premium Economy class, but was still assigned Main Cabin JFK to LAX before moving to Premium at the connection.

It appears Premium Economy & Main Cabin Extra/Comfort + are still two separate points of sale.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:13 am

IND-CDG is now bookable, and daily through the rest of the summer

Looks like IND-RSW/MIA will be trimmed JAN/FEB, but CUN will run Sat only from Dec 23rd through the end of DL's schedule.
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:56 pm

What DL is trying to charge for IND-CDG is a complete joke. IND-CDG-IND is almost $800 more a r/t than CVG-CDG-CVG. IND to CDG via DTW is about $700 cheaper r/t than going nonstop. I seriously hope that isn't the kind of pricing racket that IND is paying subsidies for.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:11 pm

Indy wrote:
What DL is trying to charge for IND-CDG is a complete joke. IND-CDG-IND is almost $800 more a r/t than CVG-CDG-CVG. IND to CDG via DTW is about $700 cheaper r/t than going nonstop. I seriously hope that isn't the kind of pricing racket that IND is paying subsidies for.


Well, for the May 24th IND-CDG leg First Class seats are already 30% sold out...

Also, Looks like on May 24th there is no CDG-IND flight, so the plane won't be coming from CDG. Is the a/c coming from ATL?
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:50 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:
What DL is trying to charge for IND-CDG is a complete joke. IND-CDG-IND is almost $800 more a r/t than CVG-CDG-CVG. IND to CDG via DTW is about $700 cheaper r/t than going nonstop. I seriously hope that isn't the kind of pricing racket that IND is paying subsidies for.


Well, for the May 24th IND-CDG leg First Class seats are already 30% sold out...

Also, Looks like on May 24th there is no CDG-IND flight, so the plane won't be coming from CDG. Is the a/c coming from ATL?


I am sure the first class seats will sell well. They are actually reasonably priced. Not sure where the flight is coming from. Either it is coming in empty or they just haven't updated the inbound flight equipment from ATL/MSP/DTW.
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SmithAir747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:24 pm

I just looked at the May 24, 2018, IND-CDG nonstop (one way), Flight 500, at delta.com (whilst logged into my account). The fares are $2759.10 in Main Cabin (B) and $8590.10 in Delta One (C). Both fares are changeable and refundable. Flight 500 departs IND at 18:12 and arrives at CDG at 08:45 +1, for a block time of 8h33min on the 763.

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Briancw
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:17 pm

Indy wrote:
What DL is trying to charge for IND-CDG is a complete joke. IND-CDG-IND is almost $800 more a r/t than CVG-CDG-CVG. IND to CDG via DTW is about $700 cheaper r/t than going nonstop. I seriously hope that isn't the kind of pricing racket that IND is paying subsidies for.


If it's anything like CVG-CDG (or other airports with only 1 TATL flight on a legacy carrier), the majority of the time, a 1-stop IND-CDG is going to be cheaper than the non-stop.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:27 pm

Briancw wrote:
Indy wrote:
What DL is trying to charge for IND-CDG is a complete joke. IND-CDG-IND is almost $800 more a r/t than CVG-CDG-CVG. IND to CDG via DTW is about $700 cheaper r/t than going nonstop. I seriously hope that isn't the kind of pricing racket that IND is paying subsidies for.


If it's anything like CVG-CDG (or other airports with only 1 TATL flight on a legacy carrier), the majority of the time, a 1-stop IND-CDG is going to be cheaper than the non-stop.


Right now CVG-CDG-AMS-CDG-CVG in May is $1526 a person. Using the same dates IND-CDG-AMS-CDG-IND is $2936. Just shy of twice the price. So now begins the waiting game. Waiting for DL to offer something other than the Q fare on IND-CDG. Funny enough if you were to book IND-CDG-IND your combined fare codes would be QQ which is appropriate at those prices lol.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:44 pm

Ok, as far as the IND-CDG flight goes. Yes, it is much higher than the connecting flights. Gives Delta's schedule system time to fix its self. The algorithm will fix its self in given time. ALL of DLs new routes are like this right now. Also, MCO-AMS started at a insane price. It was dropped lower than the connections 1-2 months later (maybe sooner). So give it time. Yes, finding EU/Asia connections are impossible right now. Again, give their system time to set everything up. #BePatient
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:45 pm

Keep in mind, IND only pays Delta if they fill up that flight. This won't last forever.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:15 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Ok, as far as the IND-CDG flight goes. Yes, it is much higher than the connecting flights. Gives Delta's schedule system time to fix its self. The algorithm will fix its self in given time. ALL of DLs new routes are like this right now. Also, MCO-AMS started at a insane price. It was dropped lower than the connections 1-2 months later (maybe sooner). So give it time. Yes, finding EU/Asia connections are impossible right now. Again, give their system time to set everything up. #BePatient


If you compare one-way fares from Focus-cities and Spokes
IND-CDG $2,734.10

RDU-CDG $ 2,823 .10
PDX-AMS $ 2,823 .10
PIT-CDG $2,778.10
CVG-CDG $2,750.10
MCO-AMS $2,734.10

So, the flight isn't priced out of the ordinary


On another note, it looks like G4 is running flights out of both B3 and B4, so I assume B4 is a Common-Use gate. So, It will be interesting to see what happens next spring, especially if they decide to add more routes....
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:29 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
If you compare one-way fares from Focus-cities and Spokes
IND-CDG $2,734.10

RDU-CDG $ 2,823 .10
PDX-AMS $ 2,823 .10
PIT-CDG $2,778.10
CVG-CDG $2,750.10
MCO-AMS $2,734.10

So, the flight isn't priced out of the ordinary


On another note, it looks like G4 is running flights out of both B3 and B4, so I assume B4 is a Common-Use gate. So, It will be interesting to see what happens next spring, especially if they decide to add more routes....


Now plug in May 24-May 31st and see how round trips price out.
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:35 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Ok, as far as the IND-CDG flight goes. Yes, it is much higher than the connecting flights. Gives Delta's schedule system time to fix its self. The algorithm will fix its self in given time. ALL of DLs new routes are like this right now. Also, MCO-AMS started at a insane price. It was dropped lower than the connections 1-2 months later (maybe sooner). So give it time. Yes, finding EU/Asia connections are impossible right now. Again, give their system time to set everything up. #BePatient


If you compare one-way fares from Focus-cities and Spokes
IND-CDG $2,734.10

RDU-CDG $ 2,823 .10
PDX-AMS $ 2,823 .10
PIT-CDG $2,778.10
CVG-CDG $2,750.10
MCO-AMS $2,734.10

So, the flight isn't priced out of the ordinary




On another note, it looks like G4 is running flights out of both B3 and B4, so I assume B4 is a Common-Use gate. So, It will be interesting to see what happens next spring, especially if they decide to add more routes....


MCO-AMS was much lower than that when I looked. I looked a month or two after the inaugural flight.
PIT-CDG is on Delta.com right now $1051 round trip including taxes. Not sure where you're getting these numbers up, but I can put money on this. The price for the IND-CDG flight will get lower in the next month or two. (At least the flight that isn't the inaugural.)
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:41 am

The IND-CDG flight was handled about as poorly as it could be by DL. It is a marketing and PR failure when you think about it. They announce the new flight which created a ton of excitement. But due to poor planning the tickets didn't go on sale for another 2-1/2 weeks. So a ton of buzz was lost. Then sale day comes. The IAA is promoting this on their Twitter page. So people see this, go to Delta.com and plug in the new route, and find these absurd prices. Even more buzz lost. In fact people at first will see Delta in a negative light and wonder why the IAA and the State of Indiana made a deal for these rip off prices. The smart thing to do would have been to have a launch sale the day the route was announced and maybe run it for a period of time (week? two?). Take that PR buzz and milk it. But Delta didn't do that. From a sales and PR perspective they did everything wrong. Day one of IND-CDG and they sell 2 coach seats and those may have been award tickets. I know, I know this is how many airlines do it. But it is still a terrible way to launch a new route.
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eaa3
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:54 am

Indy wrote:
The IND-CDG flight was handled about as poorly as it could be by DL. It is a marketing and PR failure when you think about it. They announce the new flight which created a ton of excitement. But due to poor planning the tickets didn't go on sale for another 2-1/2 weeks. So a ton of buzz was lost. Then sale day comes. The IAA is promoting this on their Twitter page. So people see this, go to Delta.com and plug in the new route, and find these absurd prices. Even more buzz lost. In fact people at first will see Delta in a negative light and wonder why the IAA and the State of Indiana made a deal for these rip off prices. The smart thing to do would have been to have a launch sale the day the route was announced and maybe run it for a period of time (week? two?). Take that PR buzz and milk it. But Delta didn't do that. From a sales and PR perspective they did everything wrong. Day one of IND-CDG and they sell 2 coach seats and those may have been award tickets. I know, I know this is how many airlines do it. But it is still a terrible way to launch a new route.


Let's face it, Delta launched it because the state bribed them enough to do it. They probably had little interest in it otherwise. But with a guarentee from the state, they're probably guarenteed a profit. The fact is that Delta has no interest in competing on price. Reaching Europe from Indiana will be as expensive as ever. Just look at Cincinnati. It has a direct flight to Europe with Delta, but prices are always ridiculous.
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:01 am

eaa3 wrote:
Let's face it, Delta launched it because the state bribed them enough to do it. They probably had little interest in it otherwise. But with a guarentee from the state, they're probably guarenteed a profit. The fact is that Delta has no interest in competing on price. Reaching Europe from Indiana will be as expensive as ever. Just look at Cincinnati. It has a direct flight to Europe with Delta, but prices are always ridiculous.


Compared to IND, the CVG prices are cheap. I know DL will open new fare codes soon and the prices will come down to earth. The point is just that they screwed up a good marketing and PR opportunity. Too bad WOW can't announce new service on Monday with intro fares of $99 and $159 (or whatever it is they usually start at). I bet they'd get more than 2 coach ticket sales on day one. Heck, I would have bought two DL coach tickets this morning at CVG pricing but not at these moronic prices.
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ADrum23
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:16 am

Indy wrote:
eaa3 wrote:
Let's face it, Delta launched it because the state bribed them enough to do it. They probably had little interest in it otherwise. But with a guarentee from the state, they're probably guarenteed a profit. The fact is that Delta has no interest in competing on price. Reaching Europe from Indiana will be as expensive as ever. Just look at Cincinnati. It has a direct flight to Europe with Delta, but prices are always ridiculous.


Compared to IND, the CVG prices are cheap. I know DL will open new fare codes soon and the prices will come down to earth. The point is just that they screwed up a good marketing and PR opportunity. Too bad WOW can't announce new service on Monday with intro fares of $99 and $159 (or whatever it is they usually start at). I bet they'd get more than 2 coach ticket sales on day one. Heck, I would have bought two DL coach tickets this morning at CVG pricing but not at these moronic prices.


The question is, will both IND-CDG and CVG-CDG last? I can't see both of them lasting.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:26 am

ADrum23 wrote:
The question is, will both IND-CDG and CVG-CDG last? I can't see both of them lasting.


IND has two years of subsidies so it will last at least that long. As long as DL is competitive on prices there is no reason the route shouldn't last for both cities. Only question is CVG and whether or not DL cares to go up against an Euro LCC. They may lose too many leisure travelers to make the route worthwhile. Then again the market may be big enough to support the two. Time will tell. In any case I don't see DL in CVG and IND hurting either city.
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Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:22 am

Indy wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
The question is, will both IND-CDG and CVG-CDG last? I can't see both of them lasting.


IND has two years of subsidies so it will last at least that long. As long as DL is competitive on prices there is no reason the route shouldn't last for both cities. Only question is CVG and whether or not DL cares to go up against an Euro LCC. They may lose too many leisure travelers to make the route worthwhile. Then again the market may be big enough to support the two. Time will tell. In any case I don't see DL in CVG and IND hurting either city.


In theory, DL could push more connections to CDG through CVG if it wanted to, to keep loads up if there is some of a drop off. Not sure if they would but they could. I wouldn't have an issue flying through CVG to CDG if the price and connection time was similar to DTW/ATL.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:31 am

Indy wrote:
The IND-CDG flight was handled about as poorly as it could be by DL. It is a marketing and PR failure when you think about it. They announce the new flight which created a ton of excitement. But due to poor planning the tickets didn't go on sale for another 2-1/2 weeks. So a ton of buzz was lost. Then sale day comes. The IAA is promoting this on their Twitter page. So people see this, go to Delta.com and plug in the new route, and find these absurd prices. Even more buzz lost. In fact people at first will see Delta in a negative light and wonder why the IAA and the State of Indiana made a deal for these rip off prices. The smart thing to do would have been to have a launch sale the day the route was announced and maybe run it for a period of time (week? two?). Take that PR buzz and milk it. But Delta didn't do that. From a sales and PR perspective they did everything wrong. Day one of IND-CDG and they sell 2 coach seats and those may have been award tickets. I know, I know this is how many airlines do it. But it is still a terrible way to launch a new route.


I do find it odd they didn't do a promotion or something. BA always does on in their new cities for the first week or two to drive interest. There were around $900 RT I think to start and have now pushed back up to $1,100. Starting at 3k was crazy.
 
zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:37 am

Yeah, I agree the starting out price is a dumb move. It seems they do this for all their routes, and then lower them later on. MCO-AMS took the same effect, then a month later it became 50 some dollars cheaper than the connecting flights. Not a good first impression I must say, but at least this isn't permanent.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:56 pm

eaa3 wrote:
Indy wrote:
The IND-CDG flight was handled about as poorly as it could be by DL. It is a marketing and PR failure when you think about it. They announce the new flight which created a ton of excitement. But due to poor planning the tickets didn't go on sale for another 2-1/2 weeks. So a ton of buzz was lost. Then sale day comes. The IAA is promoting this on their Twitter page. So people see this, go to Delta.com and plug in the new route, and find these absurd prices. Even more buzz lost. In fact people at first will see Delta in a negative light and wonder why the IAA and the State of Indiana made a deal for these rip off prices. The smart thing to do would have been to have a launch sale the day the route was announced and maybe run it for a period of time (week? two?). Take that PR buzz and milk it. But Delta didn't do that. From a sales and PR perspective they did everything wrong. Day one of IND-CDG and they sell 2 coach seats and those may have been award tickets. I know, I know this is how many airlines do it. But it is still a terrible way to launch a new route.


Let's face it, Delta launched it because the state bribed them enough to do it. They probably had little interest in it otherwise. But with a guarentee from the state, they're probably guarenteed a profit. The fact is that Delta has no interest in competing on price. Reaching Europe from Indiana will be as expensive as ever. Just look at Cincinnati. It has a direct flight to Europe with Delta, but prices are always ridiculous.


DL approached IND to start the flight..... the person who started the rumor said this, "We first select the focus city, then approach them and negotiate the money to indemnify startup losses. Not the other way around."

DL only gets $ if the route is full, there is no money from the state if the IND-CDG-IND flights are empty. DL wouldn't have started this route if they didn't think it would be a success in its own right....

ADrum23 wrote:
Indy wrote:
eaa3 wrote:
Let's face it, Delta launched it because the state bribed them enough to do it. They probably had little interest in it otherwise. But with a guarentee from the state, they're probably guarenteed a profit. The fact is that Delta has no interest in competing on price. Reaching Europe from Indiana will be as expensive as ever. Just look at Cincinnati. It has a direct flight to Europe with Delta, but prices are always ridiculous.


Compared to IND, the CVG prices are cheap. I know DL will open new fare codes soon and the prices will come down to earth. The point is just that they screwed up a good marketing and PR opportunity. Too bad WOW can't announce new service on Monday with intro fares of $99 and $159 (or whatever it is they usually start at). I bet they'd get more than 2 coach ticket sales on day one. Heck, I would have bought two DL coach tickets this morning at CVG pricing but not at these moronic prices.


The question is, will both IND-CDG and CVG-CDG last? I can't see both of them lasting.


Very Very few people are buying tix for next summer in the middle of September anyway.... It isn't a surprise fares are high either, you pay a premium for having non-stop flights.

I don't see why both won't last, let's wait for May of next year before we start jumping to conclusions....
2018: IND, ORD, TPA, Loading....
 
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atypical
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:45 pm

Indy wrote:
The IND-CDG flight was handled about as poorly as it could be by DL. It is a marketing and PR failure when you think about it. They announce the new flight which created a ton of excitement. But due to poor planning the tickets didn't go on sale for another 2-1/2 weeks. So a ton of buzz was lost. Then sale day comes. The IAA is promoting this on their Twitter page. So people see this, go to Delta.com and plug in the new route, and find these absurd prices. Even more buzz lost. In fact people at first will see Delta in a negative light and wonder why the IAA and the State of Indiana made a deal for these rip off prices. The smart thing to do would have been to have a launch sale the day the route was announced and maybe run it for a period of time (week? two?). Take that PR buzz and milk it. But Delta didn't do that. From a sales and PR perspective they did everything wrong. Day one of IND-CDG and they sell 2 coach seats and those may have been award tickets. I know, I know this is how many airlines do it. But it is still a terrible way to launch a new route.


I don't see it that way. It certainly would have been best to have the flights loaded at the time they made the announcement (from a consumer standpoint) but the flight doesn't begin for 8+ months. If anything is going to kill a buzz it's that 8+ months (unless you are Tesla). I don't know about anyone else I find booking outside of six months increasing more haphazard than not with changes or cancellations for oversea and connecting flights. I don't think I have ever worked for a company which actually had that kind of luxury of being able to book any flight (domestic too) with that kind of lead. I don't know if you consider the loss of, "Day one of IND-CDG and they sell 2 coach seats and those may have been award tickets" a good or a bad thing for the flight in general. It is not a good thing for the flight's long term health and if the announcement without loading the flights means fewer of these bookings then that may be a good reason to make the announcement without loading these flights. I know airlines treat award tickets like retail sales treat rebates: helpful to make sales but if 100% converted would mean a financial loss. My last point, at worst the loss of a booking from abandonment or in dissatisfaction because of the 2 1/2 week delay is potentially double digits at worse, and these are not the kinds of bookings that would actually mean a thing to long term health of the route at all. Abandonments indicate an impulse booking and dissatisfaction on being able to make a reservation 8+ months out is generally someone be dissatisfied on something else had they been able to book.
 
ADrum23
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:50 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
I don't see why both won't last, let's wait for May of next year before we start jumping to conclusions....


True, but it does seem odd that DL launched IND-CDG (as opposed to say AMS) when CVG-CDG is not terribly far away. It leads me to believe that there is a 50-50 chance CVG loses its Paris flight in the future.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:53 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I don't see why both won't last, let's wait for May of next year before we start jumping to conclusions....


True, but it does seem odd that DL launched IND-CDG (as opposed to say AMS) when CVG-CDG is not terribly far away. It leads me to believe that there is a 50-50 chance CVG loses its Paris flight in the future.
CVG could gain LHR or AMS though if CDG goes away.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
flyguy89
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:06 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
I don't see why both won't last, let's wait for May of next year before we start jumping to conclusions....


True, but it does seem odd that DL launched IND-CDG (as opposed to say AMS) when CVG-CDG is not terribly far away. It leads me to believe that there is a 50-50 chance CVG loses its Paris flight in the future.

I don't see why. CDG is the larger JV hub of the two and has the highest O&D and it's not like there was any appreciable bleed from Indianapolis to the CVG-CDG flight...nor has DL shown any type of wavering in their commitment to CVG-CDG.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:38 pm

Frequency adjustments
AA IND-LGA DEC 3>1.5
DL IND-CDG MAY 0>0.3
DL IND-RSW JAN 0.2>0.0 FEB 0.2>0.1
DL MIA-IND FEB 0.2>0.1

Not surprised to see some p2p frequency cuts from DL at IND for Jan and Feb, looks like it is happening across the board
2018: IND, ORD, TPA, Loading....
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:05 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Frequency adjustments
AA IND-LGA DEC 3>1.5
DL IND-CDG MAY 0>0.3
DL IND-RSW JAN 0.2>0.0 FEB 0.2>0.1
DL MIA-IND FEB 0.2>0.1

Not surprised to see some p2p frequency cuts from DL at IND for Jan and Feb, looks like it is happening across the board


I wonder if the Florida cuts have anything to do with post hurricane recovery?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:29 pm

Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Frequency adjustments
AA IND-LGA DEC 3>1.5
DL IND-CDG MAY 0>0.3
DL IND-RSW JAN 0.2>0.0 FEB 0.2>0.1
DL MIA-IND FEB 0.2>0.1

Not surprised to see some p2p frequency cuts from DL at IND for Jan and Feb, looks like it is happening across the board


I wonder if the Florida cuts have anything to do with post hurricane recovery?


I doubt it, RSW and MIA got back up and running pretty quickly.
2018: IND, ORD, TPA, Loading....
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:45 pm

I was interested to see where IND ranks in terms of profitability for each airline, here is what I came across:
(keep in mind this is 2015 data and pax numbers exclude non-rev pax I believe)

Where IND ranked in terms of total O&D revenue for each airline:
Southwest-#34
American-#31
Delta-#28
United-#31

United at IND:
Total O&D revenue-$96,684,500
Total O&D pax-422,360
Intinerary Mileage-1,160
Fared Fare-$229
Fared Yield-19.73¢

Delta at IND:
Total O&D revenue-$169,949,230
Total O&D pax-779,700
Itinerary Mileage-1,015
Fared Fare-$218
Fared Yield-21.48¢

AA at IND:
Total O&D revenue-$174,079,010
Total O&D pax- 807,710
Itinerary Mileage-1,080
Fared Fare-$216
Fared Yield-19.95¢

WN at IND:
Total O&D revenue-$171,068,100
Total O&D pax-1,112,410
Itinerary Mileage-1,053
Fared Fare-$170
Fared Yield-16.15¢

If anyone else is interested in data for other airports I can pull them up as well....
2018: IND, ORD, TPA, Loading....
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:09 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Delta at IND:
Total O&D revenue-$169,949,230
Total O&D pax-779,700
Itinerary Mileage-1,015
Fared Fare-$218
Fared Yield-21.48¢


Ok I have one for you. How does Delta's fared yield compare to their other focus cities?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:43 am

Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Delta at IND:
Total O&D revenue-$169,949,230
Total O&D pax-779,700
Itinerary Mileage-1,015
Fared Fare-$218
Fared Yield-21.48¢


Ok I have one for you. How does Delta's fared yield compare to their other focus cities?


Depends on what you consider a focus city
(Rank by total O&D revenue)
#9 SFB/MCO: Fared Fare-$174--Fared Yield--14.59¢
#14 CVG: Fared Fare-$247--Fared Yield--24.70¢
#20 RDU: Fared Fare-$195--Fared Yield--20.60¢
#22 PDX: Fared Fare-$234--Fared Yield--12.99¢
#26 MSY: Fared Fare-$201--Fared Yield--17.45¢
#28 IND: Fared Fare-$218--Fared Yield--21.48¢
#37 MKE: Fared Fare-$$193--Fared Yield--19.39¢
#38 BDL: Fared Fare-$232--Fared Yield---16.86¢
#39 CMH: Fared Fare-$213--Fared Yield---21.24¢
#40 AUS: Fared Fare-$215--Fared Yield--16.39¢
2018: IND, ORD, TPA, Loading....
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:22 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Depends on what you consider a focus city
(Rank by total O&D revenue)
#9 SFB/MCO: Fared Fare-$174--Fared Yield--14.59¢
#14 CVG: Fared Fare-$247--Fared Yield--24.70¢
#20 RDU: Fared Fare-$195--Fared Yield--20.60¢
#22 PDX: Fared Fare-$234--Fared Yield--12.99¢
#26 MSY: Fared Fare-$201--Fared Yield--17.45¢
#28 IND: Fared Fare-$218--Fared Yield--21.48¢
#37 MKE: Fared Fare-$$193--Fared Yield--19.39¢
#38 BDL: Fared Fare-$232--Fared Yield---16.86¢
#39 CMH: Fared Fare-$213--Fared Yield---21.24¢
#40 AUS: Fared Fare-$215--Fared Yield--16.39¢


Thanks for sharing. So basically outside of CVG, IND has the best yield of all DL focus cities. I know you have to figure costs when it comes to that but in airlines control a big part of their costs based on how many seats they run in and out of an airport. If you lease a bunch of space and you don't put many seats through the airport, you drive up your own costs. If DL were to add more service to IND, they would bring down their costs per passenger served but would likely bring their yield down a bit. I am curious what CDG will do to the yield. With the yields being as good as they are now, DL should be able to expand at IND and maintain profitability.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:58 pm

Just a note on the IND-CDG route and costs--on Saturday the flight was 75k SkyMiles one-way basically through EOS. Today, the flight has availability, including on day one, at the 30k one-way level. So looks like things are correcting themselves.
 
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cvgComair
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:24 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Delta at IND:
Total O&D revenue-$169,949,230
Total O&D pax-779,700
Itinerary Mileage-1,015
Fared Fare-$218
Fared Yield-21.48¢


Ok I have one for you. How does Delta's fared yield compare to their other focus cities?


Depends on what you consider a focus city
(Rank by total O&D revenue)
#9 SFB/MCO: Fared Fare-$174--Fared Yield--14.59¢
#14 CVG: Fared Fare-$247--Fared Yield--24.70¢
#20 RDU: Fared Fare-$195--Fared Yield--20.60¢
#22 PDX: Fared Fare-$234--Fared Yield--12.99¢
#26 MSY: Fared Fare-$201--Fared Yield--17.45¢
#28 IND: Fared Fare-$218--Fared Yield--21.48¢
#37 MKE: Fared Fare-$$193--Fared Yield--19.39¢
#38 BDL: Fared Fare-$232--Fared Yield---16.86¢
#39 CMH: Fared Fare-$213--Fared Yield---21.24¢
#40 AUS: Fared Fare-$215--Fared Yield--16.39¢

Is this just mainline or does it include regional carriers?
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:52 pm

Finally book on IND-CDG :-)
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread

Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:09 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Indy wrote:

Ok I have one for you. How does Delta's fared yield compare to their other focus cities?


Depends on what you consider a focus city
(Rank by total O&D revenue)
#9 SFB/MCO: Fared Fare-$174--Fared Yield--14.59¢
#14 CVG: Fared Fare-$247--Fared Yield--24.70¢
#20 RDU: Fared Fare-$195--Fared Yield--20.60¢
#22 PDX: Fared Fare-$234--Fared Yield--12.99¢
#26 MSY: Fared Fare-$201--Fared Yield--17.45¢
#28 IND: Fared Fare-$218--Fared Yield--21.48¢
#37 MKE: Fared Fare-$$193--Fared Yield--19.39¢
#38 BDL: Fared Fare-$232--Fared Yield---16.86¢
#39 CMH: Fared Fare-$213--Fared Yield---21.24¢
#40 AUS: Fared Fare-$215--Fared Yield--16.39¢

Is this just mainline or does it include regional carriers?


Includes regional and mainline pg. 45 http://sixelconsulting.com/Data/reports ... Sample.pdf
2018: IND, ORD, TPA, Loading....
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:12 pm

VX IND-SFO inaugural is tomorrow!

However, it looks like the flight will be almost empty...
Both UA IND-SFO flights are looking good though. I think part of the problem is that there has been very little advertising about this flight, and the flight is timed very poorly to compete with UA....
2018: IND, ORD, TPA, Loading....
 
Indy
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread 2017

Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:14 am

Midwestindy wrote:
VX IND-SFO inaugural is tomorrow!

However, it looks like the flight will be almost empty...
Both UA IND-SFO flights are looking good though. I think part of the problem is that there has been very little advertising about this flight, and the flight is timed very poorly to compete with UA....


Look at the VX flights starting around October 5th. Assuming the seat map is correct the flights look pretty full. I had to go to AS website because honestly the VX site is just a little bizarre. I can't imagine booking a flight through a site like that.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air

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