hoons90
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WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:56 am

Source: http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/we ... 41133.html
https://blog.westjet.com/westjet-announ ... nt:twitter

Initial fleet is planned to comprise of 10 737-800s in a high-density layout. The new venture is yet to be named.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:04 pm

hoons90 wrote:
Source: http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/we ... 41133.html
https://blog.westjet.com/westjet-announ ... nt:twitter

Initial fleet is planned to comprise of 10 737-800s in a high-density layout. The new venture is yet to be named.

Sardine Airlines? :duck:
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
BHXLOVER
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:48 pm

Wave Skimmers Airways?
 
Dominion301
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:19 pm

Wow, of all the airlines in the world WestJet is the last one I would have thought of that would launch an airline within an airline.

I wonder how YYZ-centric this airline will be or if this will be the real tool to block new entrants and finish off New Leaf by basing it at YHM?
 
Noise
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:34 pm

Definitely a plow to block startups such as Canada Jetlines and to compete vs Air Transat and Air Canada Rouge.
 
steviecanuck
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:46 pm

When Westjet first launched, they were the Low-Cost Carrier in Canada. Then they became just like all the other mainstream airlines, got greedy and they lost their identity. So can we say this new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier is bringing them BACK to their roots?
 
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767333ER
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:03 pm

steviecanuck wrote:
When Westjet first launched, they were the Low-Cost Carrier in Canada. Then they became just like all the other mainstream airlines, got greedy and they lost their identity. So can we say this new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier is bringing them BACK to their roots?

Not exactly, an LCC and a ULCC are very different things. One I would consider flying on and did fly on when WestJet was one, the other probably not.
Noise wrote:
Definitely a plow to block startups such as Canada Jetlines and to compete vs Air Transat and Air Canada Rouge.

I would say so. I think they are mostly aiming at New Leaf and Canada Jetlines as they already compete with Transat and Rouge which are more in the leisure category, but nonetheless you're probably right.
Last edited by 767333ER on Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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novak500
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:04 pm

I'm interested to see how this develops. I would agree with Noise in that is a way for WestJet to block startups and compete with Transat and Rouge .
 
raylee67
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:14 pm

Transat and Rouge are not real ULCC. e.g. Rouge still allows free carry-on, and check-in luggage pricing is flat. And I think you still get a free drink on board.
It seems that WestJet is really seeing NewLeaf as a credible threat. First Mesa Airport flights, now this.
319 320 321 332 333 342 343 345 388 707 717 732 736 738 739 74R 742 743 744 74E 748 757 762 763 772 77E 77L 773 77W D10 M80 135 140 145 175 190 DH1 DH4 CRJ CR7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
obelau24
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:31 pm

I am blown away and very confused by this announcement. I worked for WS for four years and saw a lot of changes - Plus fare was just rolling out when I moved on - but the one thing that was always touted to owners and guests was that WS was always about choices in every regard. Thus, the fare options and bundles allowed you to pay for what you wanted.

I was, and still am to a point, a WS fan but always very vocal with my constructive criticism (not that it meant anything). Working on the ground, one of my biggest pet peeves was product inconsistency as some planes had TVs, some didn't; some had wifi, some not; some flights had tablets to rent, others not because all the batteries were too low from the inbound; some flights came in having sold out on food and we had to make those pathetic announcements in the gate to buy and take on board. Then we had thé YYC nonstops with the 737 which was fun and the only time I had to look for voluntary offloads for weight and balance. Then the 757s came in on lease which was a whole other ball game because of North American crew, but generally a smooth operation with a few IROPS here and there.

My point being that there has been slow and steady growth with some growing pains - product consistency being chief among them. Yet you still have your options on what to book and therefore what to pay. I don't understand why we now need another airline to offer essentially the same thing. The seat pitch on WS is tight as it is and in my opinion the product is really not my cup of tea. I'm a DL flyer and even when I go to YVR take a DL connection in SEA rather than a nonstop codeshare on WS. So what can a new ULCC offer that differentiates itself from WS besides lower paid crew? And if that's the case, then really you're just taking away potential jobs from your owners.

The whole point of a ULCC is you pay for the seat (and maybe the space under the seat in front of you) but that's it. You could easily introduce a basic economy-type fare where you get:
- no checked baggage (same as regular WS economy)
- one piece of hand carry
- no seat assignment until check-in
- online check-in only and extra charge to check-in at the airport (a la Ryanair)
- no WS dollars or OAL mileage accrual
- no connections, only one way tickets and therefore no baggage transfers or interlining
- non refundable, non changeable even for a fee
- only available for online purchase up to 1 hour from departure

What Im trying to say is that I'm all about options and market segmentation to try to meet the needs and wants of a large group of customers and WS still has room to do that within its own structure while potentially increasing flying and therefore offering more jobs. What they may save in crew costs on an ULCC would be lost in start-up costs, aircraft acquisition, management structure, hiring and training, licenses and fees, infrastructure and real estate, etc etc.

As for the whole "one cabin" aspect, the Plus seats aren't exactly lie flat. Even NK has their extra large seats (or whatever the branding is) and WOW has their XL and XXL. Even in a brand new ULCC with 737, you're still going to Have seats that have extra legroom and they're still going to charge more for them so - again - where is the product differentiation?
 
jmt18325
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:53 pm

OMG, Westjet will be trashing their own yields!!!!

Ha
 
A388
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:43 pm

I assume WS will use the aircraft in there fleet for this ULCC that would otherwise be withdrawn from the fleet just as how for example CM is using their older 73G's for their new LCC named Wings? WS in this case will be sending their older 737's to this new ULCC?

A388
 
cumulushumilis
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:49 pm

jmt18325 wrote:
OMG, Westjet will be trashing their own yields!!!!

Ha


How so? The purpose of this venture is to keep existing market-share and attract the "ULCC" customer at a lower cost. With Canada Jetlines, and Jet Metal looking at setting up shop, this is am opportunity to define the marketspace and be proactive versus reactive. Those who are not price sensitive will continue to fly mainline which based on the some of the announcements (hot meals) and plus enhancements will morph in a different direction as opposed to cutting services.

It will be interesting times. Will ULCCs actually be able to thrive in Canada? History has not been kind to that segment so very hard to say.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:03 pm

obelau24 wrote:
The whole point of a ULCC is you pay for the seat (and maybe the space under the seat in front of you) but that's it. You could easily introduce a basic economy-type fare where you get:
- no checked baggage (same as regular WS economy)
- one piece of hand carry
- no seat assignment until check-in
- online check-in only and extra charge to check-in at the airport (a la Ryanair)
- no WS dollars or OAL mileage accrual
- no connections, only one way tickets and therefore no baggage transfers or interlining
- non refundable, non changeable even for a fee
- only available for online purchase up to 1 hour from departure


I don't know if that's 'the whole point' of ULCC but you do describe fare/service differentiation they could easily introduce with the existing fleet.

168 seats in the current WS fleet isn't exactly low density. How much $ can they realistically save with yet higher density?

jmt18325 wrote:
OMG, Westjet will be trashing their own yields!!!!

Ha

That would be my concern. Wasting money with dual advertising & branding. Confusing people between WS and WS-lite...
 
sixtyseven
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:05 pm

I wonder how this will affect the union drives.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
ac7e7
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:10 pm

I believe this will eventually lead to some consolidation in Canada. I think the ULCC and leisure markets will be too crowded, leading AC to eventually buy Air Transat and merge it with Rouge.
 
yycdel
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:11 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
obelau24 wrote:
The whole point of a ULCC is you pay for the seat (and maybe the space under the seat in front of you) but that's it. You could easily introduce a basic economy-type fare where you get:
- no checked baggage (same as regular WS economy)
- one piece of hand carry
- no seat assignment until check-in
- online check-in only and extra charge to check-in at the airport (a la Ryanair)
- no WS dollars or OAL mileage accrual
- no connections, only one way tickets and therefore no baggage transfers or interlining
- non refundable, non changeable even for a fee
- only available for online purchase up to 1 hour from departure


I don't know if that's 'the whole point' of ULCC but you do describe fare/service differentiation they could easily introduce with the existing fleet.

168 seats in the current WS fleet isn't exactly low density. How much $ can they realistically save with yet higher density?

jmt18325 wrote:
OMG, Westjet will be trashing their own yields!!!!

Ha

That would be my concern. Wasting money with dual advertising & branding. Confusing people between WS and WS-lite...



I believe Westjet is reconfiguring their 738s to 174 seats anyways.
 
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thekorean
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:42 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
hoons90 wrote:
Source: http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/we ... 41133.html
https://blog.westjet.com/westjet-announ ... nt:twitter

Initial fleet is planned to comprise of 10 737-800s in a high-density layout. The new venture is yet to be named.

Sardine Airlines? :duck:


EastJet
 
obelau24
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:14 pm

yycdel wrote:


I believe Westjet is reconfiguring their 738s to 174 seats anyways.


That's correct - they started the refurbishment to add a row 29 in 2014 or '15, about the same time they were introducing Plus. Easily the worst row possible being so close to the bathroom with no recline and very tight legroom. When I left row 29 was blocked off and used last unless specifically requested by a guest and one side was blocked for crew rest unless the booking was over 171. Seat pitch is tight in the whole economy class.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:28 pm

767333ER wrote:
I think they are mostly aiming at New Leaf and Canada Jetlines

:checkmark: This was my first thought as soon as I saw the thread title. WestJet has been after New Leaf since the latter got started, and has poached just about every new route they've tried to start. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking WestJet for it -- this is business, after all. Canada doesn't have a large ULCC like Spirit or Allegiant, but I'm sure there's plenty of room in the market. They've got the capital and the expertise to make a real go of it, and make it truly cost effective so they can offer low fares and not lose money hand over fist doing it.
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kjeld0d
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:11 pm

I heard they are using volunteer staff.
 
berari
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:25 pm

thekorean wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
hoons90 wrote:
Source: http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/we ... 41133.html
https://blog.westjet.com/westjet-announ ... nt:twitter

Initial fleet is planned to comprise of 10 737-800s in a high-density layout. The new venture is yet to be named.

Sardine Airlines? :duck:


EastJet


Shoot me if you want to, but I found EasyJet to be superior to what we have with Westjet today.
 
ahj2000
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:26 pm

Could this mean a more mainline level of service? It has been almost a decade since I've flown WestJet, but if I remember correctly they still do not have a true J/F product.

Also, does anyone know whether or not this will have any WestJet branding or if it will be a totally separate venture?
-Andrés Juánez
 
jmt18325
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:49 pm

cumulushumilis wrote:

How so?


I don't actually know if they will - that was simply aimed at one of the major WJ champions on this site who trashes Air Canada having Rouge for the same reasons - I await his explanation.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:45 pm

obelau24 wrote:
yycdel wrote:


I believe Westjet is reconfiguring their 738s to 174 seats anyways.


That's correct - they started the refurbishment to add a row 29 in 2014 or '15, about the same time they were introducing Plus. Easily the worst row possible being so close to the bathroom with no recline and very tight legroom. When I left row 29 was blocked off and used last unless specifically requested by a guest and one side was blocked for crew rest unless the booking was over 171. Seat pitch is tight in the whole economy class.


Yes and no.....the 800s currently have 174 seats onboard but only 168 are sold, six seats in plus have a blocker in them. The 800s are being reconfigured to 180 seats, adding a row of 6 seats, and 174 will be sold. With the 700s it'll be increased to 140 seats with 134 being sold.
 
yycdel
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:52 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
obelau24 wrote:
yycdel wrote:


I believe Westjet is reconfiguring their 738s to 174 seats anyways.


That's correct - they started the refurbishment to add a row 29 in 2014 or '15, about the same time they were introducing Plus. Easily the worst row possible being so close to the bathroom with no recline and very tight legroom. When I left row 29 was blocked off and used last unless specifically requested by a guest and one side was blocked for crew rest unless the booking was over 171. Seat pitch is tight in the whole economy class.


Yes and no.....the 800s currently have 174 seats onboard but only 168 are sold, six seats in plus have a blocker in them. The 800s are being reconfigured to 180 seats, adding a row of 6 seats, and 174 will be sold. With the 700s it'll be increased to 140 seats with 134 being sold.



That's what I meant ...... 180 seats total, 6 center seats blocked in Plus.
So this new ULCC could have 189 seats all Y I guess
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:01 pm

Rogue seems to be crushing it. Westjet i think is trying to rain on their parade a little. AC is Not only for Canadians headed to warm weather sunny destinations but they get many passengers from places like NY, NJ, CT, MI places that flying thru Canada is not really that far out of the way. I know plenty of people who have flown to the Caribbean thru YUL since fares can be cheap and doesn't really much more time then connecting in CLT or ATL anyway. From NY/BOS for example Barbados is actually less miles connecting thru Montreal then ATL. Air Canada knows they can use americans and all their flights to fill some extra seats and help loads.
 
A320FlyGuy
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:04 pm

berari wrote:
thekorean wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Sardine Airlines? :duck:


EastJet


Shoot me if you want to, but I found EasyJet to be superior to what we have with Westjet today.


I agree - I have flown numerous sectors on EasyJet and they are leaps and bounds ahead of the crappy product that WestJet is offering.
My other car is an A320-200
 
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767333ER
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:40 pm

I think they should call it WestJet Rodeo. It screams west and also would tell customers that a high density 738 really is a heck of a ride. :lol:
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172S P2006T
 
berari
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:12 pm

767333ER wrote:
I think they should call it WestJet Rodeo. It screams west and also would tell customers that a high density 738 really is a heck of a ride. :lol:


You must be from Toronto and its environs. There's more to YYC than the rodeo.
 
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767333ER
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:11 am

berari wrote:
767333ER wrote:
I think they should call it WestJet Rodeo. It screams west and also would tell customers that a high density 738 really is a heck of a ride. :lol:


You must be from Toronto and its environs. There's more to YYC than the rodeo.

I've actually lived in Calgary all my life and it's just a joke which is why I put the lol at the end.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172S P2006T
 
tphuang
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:22 am

Whiteguy wrote:
obelau24 wrote:
yycdel wrote:


I believe Westjet is reconfiguring their 738s to 174 seats anyways.


That's correct - they started the refurbishment to add a row 29 in 2014 or '15, about the same time they were introducing Plus. Easily the worst row possible being so close to the bathroom with no recline and very tight legroom. When I left row 29 was blocked off and used last unless specifically requested by a guest and one side was blocked for crew rest unless the booking was over 171. Seat pitch is tight in the whole economy class.


Yes and no.....the 800s currently have 174 seats onboard but only 168 are sold, six seats in plus have a blocker in them. The 800s are being reconfigured to 180 seats, adding a row of 6 seats, and 174 will be sold. With the 700s it'll be increased to 140 seats with 134 being sold.

goodness, i'm flying on them tomorrow. Not looking forward to it at all.
 
drgmobile
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:32 am

This makes a lot of sense. Yes WestJet started out as a low cost carrier but the differentiation slowly withered away as network carriers evolved their economy products to compete. The original LCCs have evolved their products up to better compete and there ya go -- the situation we have today, where the differences between LCC and mainline in economy are not big. As has been noted, the Ultra Low Cost Carrier product is a level more severe than the original LCCs ever were, and they're doing different things on different routes -- at least in North America.

Why not just introduce a new fare category? These flights will probably operate on completely different routes and here's the kicker -- at different labour costs, as Air Canada has done with Rouge. Note that the press release indicates this is subject to an agreement with the airline's pilots. One has to imagine that the company will be presenting its labour groups with a vision of a company that has incentives (i.e. growth in international widebody flights at "mainline") to secure their support.
 
rbavfan
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:12 am

I would say all coach 189 seats as they indicated high density layout vs 12/156 on their current fleet.
 
Dominion301
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:25 pm

Interesting to note that on the same day ALPA have lined up enough cards for WestJet's pilots to hold a union certification vote: http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/we ... 04603.html

I would not be surprised to see the pilots certify after this ULCC announcement. The vote was narrowly defeated (i.e. < 10%) last time as I remember.
 
yycdel
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:20 pm

rbavfan wrote:
I would say all coach 189 seats as they indicated high density layout vs 12/156 on their current fleet.


Current fleet is moving to 30" pitch (higher in plus), 12/162
 
Whiteguy
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:30 pm

tphuang wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:
obelau24 wrote:

That's correct - they started the refurbishment to add a row 29 in 2014 or '15, about the same time they were introducing Plus. Easily the worst row possible being so close to the bathroom with no recline and very tight legroom. When I left row 29 was blocked off and used last unless specifically requested by a guest and one side was blocked for crew rest unless the booking was over 171. Seat pitch is tight in the whole economy class.


Yes and no.....the 800s currently have 174 seats onboard but only 168 are sold, six seats in plus have a blocker in them. The 800s are being reconfigured to 180 seats, adding a row of 6 seats, and 174 will be sold. With the 700s it'll be increased to 140 seats with 134 being sold.

goodness, i'm flying on them tomorrow. Not looking forward to it at all.


As far as I know only 1 700 has been reconfigured, and from people that have flown on it, you won't even notice a difference.
 
obelau24
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:30 pm

yycdel wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
I would say all coach 189 seats as they indicated high density layout vs 12/156 on their current fleet.


Current fleet is moving to 30" pitch (higher in plus), 12/162


Is that for real? How can they justify that move when so many of their bread-and-butter routes are at least 3 hours - everything in the Americans and Caribbean and transcontinental. Guests will vote with their feet for sure. Honestly, WS needs to reinvest in itself to improve the product offering or go back to LCC. If they do go along with the ULCC plan then they need to go full service. Dispense with the Plus seating and install real business class, introduce actual meals for purchase and the opportunity to buy meals in advance, instead of sandwiches and cheese platters, improve seat pitch in Economy, and improve WestJet rewards to include more carriers and options for reward redemption on Partners. This isn't the WS I once knew and I'm liking it less and less. We used to joke with our guests at check in that every seat on WestJet was first class. Now it's an insult to injury.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:41 pm

obelau24 wrote:
yycdel wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
I would say all coach 189 seats as they indicated high density layout vs 12/156 on their current fleet.


Current fleet is moving to 30" pitch (higher in plus), 12/162


Is that for real? How can they justify that move when so many of their bread-and-butter routes are at least 3 hours - everything in the Americans and Caribbean and transcontinental. Guests will vote with their feet for sure. Honestly, WS needs to reinvest in itself to improve the product offering or go back to LCC. If they do go along with the ULCC plan then they need to go full service. Dispense with the Plus seating and install real business class, introduce actual meals for purchase and the opportunity to buy meals in advance, instead of sandwiches and cheese platters, improve seat pitch in Economy, and improve WestJet rewards to include more carriers and options for reward redemption on Partners. This isn't the WS I once knew and I'm liking it less and less. We used to joke with our guests at check in that every seat on WestJet was first class. Now it's an insult to injury.


Yet people have no problem with Rouge 29" pitch. As for WS, the seat pitch is slightly different depending on the location in the cabin. Also the MAXs will be coming with ovens and the 800s will be having them installed, so you will see changes.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:03 pm

It'll be hard to have a true ULCC in Canada when AIFs alone are $50+ round trip. It might make sense for them to build their own separate, basic terminal at some of the major places if they can then get exempted from the AIF.
 
sixtyseven
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:16 pm

My two cents. If ULCCs were going to exploit the market Norweigan would be here already. The fee system doesn't set up for it.

I think this is an anti pilot union play. Saretsky has said he's going to fight it to the end. Here's one set up in a tee for the in house union which has given him everything he's wanted. This announcement will get the pilots spinning. The in house shop will come up with a way to "defeat" this and have another "reason" to keep things in house.

Do you really think WestJet is worried about new leaf? This is nonsense.
Stand-by for new ATIS message......
 
ryan78
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:28 pm

obelau24 wrote:
Is that for real? How can they justify that move when so many of their bread-and-butter routes are at least 3 hours - everything in the Americans and Caribbean and transcontinental. Guests will vote with their feet for sure. Honestly, WS needs to reinvest in itself to improve the product offering or go back to LCC. If they do go along with the ULCC plan then they need to go full service. Dispense with the Plus seating and install real business class, introduce actual meals for purchase and the opportunity to buy meals in advance, instead of sandwiches and cheese platters, improve seat pitch in Economy, and improve WestJet rewards to include more carriers and options for reward redemption on Partners. This isn't the WS I once knew and I'm liking it less and less. We used to joke with our guests at check in that every seat on WestJet was first class. Now it's an insult to injury.


The main reason why Westjet has slowly become worse and worse is due to lack of legitimate competition. Canadian's flying domestically really only have 2 options AC or WS, and 90% of the time the fares are exactly the same. They own a duopoly on almost all domestic routes and thus can charge whatever they want and provide sub-par service. Westjet won't remodel or restructure, or improve their product because they know people will always come back. Honestly the best way to compare flying domestically in Canada is to look at the government parties we elect into power. When the Liberals are in power we b**ch and complain until the next election and then we vote the Conservatives into power. Then we b**ch and complain until the next election and vote the Liberals back into power expecting a different result from last time, and the cycle just keeps going. Same thing, we fly Westjet have a terrible experience, fly Air Canada, have a terrible experience and then go back to Westjet etc. It's Canadian nature to be passive-aggressive towards these things.

I'm not sure about this Westjet low-cost airline. I mean they would pretty much be trashing their own yields. Anyone in Canada who flies business class domestically fly's Air Canada, everyone else flies Westjet simply because they are a little cheaper or they are part of the Westjet Rewards program. The problem with introducing a cheaper alternative is that the mainline brand isn't far enough away from the LCC business model to differentiate the two enough to make them co-exist and be profitable. I mean we're talking $7 ham and cheese sandwiches and cheese platters the only food available for 5+ hour flights on mainline. The seating will pretty much be the same as well, 2-3 inches extra legroom and "Plus" seating isn't enough to entice me to fly mainline WS over a half priced LCC. WS charges $25 bag fees already so where is there room to cut more costs and create more ancillary revenue? At least with Rouge it is a night and day difference between mainline AC and they can co-exist together without hurting each others yields.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7332
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:18 pm

ryan78 wrote:
The main reason why Westjet has slowly become worse and worse is due to lack of legitimate competition.

Yet the competition offers full beverage service on most flights under 45 minutes, not just a cup of water. Don't think its the lack of legitimate competition that is making WS an unenjoyable product.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7332
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:22 pm

tphuang wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:
obelau24 wrote:

That's correct - they started the refurbishment to add a row 29 in 2014 or '15, about the same time they were introducing Plus. Easily the worst row possible being so close to the bathroom with no recline and very tight legroom. When I left row 29 was blocked off and used last unless specifically requested by a guest and one side was blocked for crew rest unless the booking was over 171. Seat pitch is tight in the whole economy class.


Yes and no.....the 800s currently have 174 seats onboard but only 168 are sold, six seats in plus have a blocker in them. The 800s are being reconfigured to 180 seats, adding a row of 6 seats, and 174 will be sold. With the 700s it'll be increased to 140 seats with 134 being sold.

goodness, i'm flying on them tomorrow. Not looking forward to it at all.

In regards to the seat pitch, as someone one who flies WS several times a month, the leg room on the 700s/800s is very generous, and I'm 6'3". I try to book Plus or at least upgrade as often as possible on longer flights, but even a 4.5 hour flight from YLW-YYZ or YVR-SJD or CUN is very comfortable leg room wise.

On the WS charter flights we have for work, most flights are full so the middle seat is used in Plus as well as the last row(s) on both the 700/800 and the leg room is not an issue at all.

If you want cramped leg room, fly on one of their -600s with the older seats.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
tphuang
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:07 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:

Yes and no.....the 800s currently have 174 seats onboard but only 168 are sold, six seats in plus have a blocker in them. The 800s are being reconfigured to 180 seats, adding a row of 6 seats, and 174 will be sold. With the 700s it'll be increased to 140 seats with 134 being sold.

goodness, i'm flying on them tomorrow. Not looking forward to it at all.

In regards to the seat pitch, as someone one who flies WS several times a month, the leg room on the 700s/800s is very generous, and I'm 6'3". I try to book Plus or at least upgrade as often as possible on longer flights, but even a 4.5 hour flight from YLW-YYZ or YVR-SJD or CUN is very comfortable leg room wise.

On the WS charter flights we have for work, most flights are full so the middle seat is used in Plus as well as the last row(s) on both the 700/800 and the leg room is not an issue at all.

If you want cramped leg room, fly on one of their -600s with the older seats.

I guess I am spoiled, but the couple of times I flew WestJet when I was not in plus seating were not great experiences.

Now I am waiting in the LGA terminal d, because WestJet is late again. It takes them 40 minutes to board on a flight that is 3 hours late. I am totally not kidding here looking at ws1211 still boarding while I type. And all of this is on a one hour flight. This is what I get for picking them because I can earn miles with AA.
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1525
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:15 pm

hoons90 wrote:
Source: http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/we ... 41133.html
https://blog.westjet.com/westjet-announ ... nt:twitter

Initial fleet is planned to comprise of 10 737-800s in a high-density layout. The new venture is yet to be named.


Ultra Low Cost you say?
What's left? Pay for use of toilet, pay for air and no seats?
 
obelau24
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:00 am

Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:02 pm

tphuang wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
goodness, i'm flying on them tomorrow. Not looking forward to it at all.

In regards to the seat pitch, as someone one who flies WS several times a month, the leg room on the 700s/800s is very generous, and I'm 6'3". I try to book Plus or at least upgrade as often as possible on longer flights, but even a 4.5 hour flight from YLW-YYZ or YVR-SJD or CUN is very comfortable leg room wise.

On the WS charter flights we have for work, most flights are full so the middle seat is used in Plus as well as the last row(s) on both the 700/800 and the leg room is not an issue at all.

If you want cramped leg room, fly on one of their -600s with the older seats.

I guess I am spoiled, but the couple of times I flew WestJet when I was not in plus seating were not great experiences.

Now I am waiting in the LGA terminal d, because WestJet is late again. It takes them 40 minutes to board on a flight that is 3 hours late. I am totally not kidding here looking at ws1211 still boarding while I type. And all of this is on a one hour flight. This is what I get for picking them because I can earn miles with AA.


LGA is another ballgame for a number of reasons - none of which are an excuse but add up to make it the experience you described. First, having adequate staffing is difficult as turnover is high; then you have ATC and gate congestion on both ends + the entire airspace between NY and their Canadian ports.

When I started the turntime was 50 minutes (if I remember correctly) but was eventually moved to a standard 60 minutes which is tight but doable so long as there is a competent manager to orchestrate everything - that's really what it takes, from experience. In HNL we have a lot of wheelchairs being a tourist destination and I've done 60 minutes with up to 7 In and 14 out including aisle chairs and full grooming and partial catering all done by the 3 gate agents + myself who was also overseeing check in and arrivals.

LGA doesn't strike me as having too many specials so 60 minutes should be more than enough. We used to gate check anything and everything for free, touting that you wouldnt have to worry about stowing your backs online. We'd even gate check at the check in counter. Then it comes down to the announcements being clear and segmenting the line as much as possible so everyone knows exactly when to board. In fact, by the time i got to general boarding I'd have less than 40 people in the gate. I loved that about WS - The ability to improvise and work the crowd so you could be entertaining and get the job done. I don't know if it's the same these days.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:27 pm

tphuang wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
goodness, i'm flying on them tomorrow. Not looking forward to it at all.

In regards to the seat pitch, as someone one who flies WS several times a month, the leg room on the 700s/800s is very generous, and I'm 6'3". I try to book Plus or at least upgrade as often as possible on longer flights, but even a 4.5 hour flight from YLW-YYZ or YVR-SJD or CUN is very comfortable leg room wise.

On the WS charter flights we have for work, most flights are full so the middle seat is used in Plus as well as the last row(s) on both the 700/800 and the leg room is not an issue at all.

If you want cramped leg room, fly on one of their -600s with the older seats.

I guess I am spoiled, but the couple of times I flew WestJet when I was not in plus seating were not great experiences.

Now I am waiting in the LGA terminal d, because WestJet is late again. It takes them 40 minutes to board on a flight that is 3 hours late. I am totally not kidding here looking at ws1211 still boarding while I type. And all of this is on a one hour flight. This is what I get for picking them because I can earn miles with AA.


WS1211 aircraft has been running back and forth between YYZ and LGA all day, you can't be that surprised it's running behind. With the runway construction in YYZ and the weather in LGA, 1/4 mile in fog and 2-300 foot ceilings which you conveniently omitted in your post, there are going to be delays. The first flight this morning was an hour late, likely due to flow delays. But hey blame the airline!!!
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 5253
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Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:32 pm

I am very curious to see what the game plan is. That is assuming there is a game plan, and this is not just a rumour/threat to avoid ALPA pilot representation.

They have the luxury of starting the "airline within an airline" after many have tried ... some successful, some not so much. Where will they fly? Exactly how "low frills" will this enterprise be? The enthusiast in me is looking forward to reading the details.

In reality though, they are so efficient as it stands, do they really need to rebrand a subsidiary? WestJet Sarcelle? When, in theory, they could just have a sub fleet of higher density 737s flying to low yield destinations. As many above have stated, there already is a variation of seating on their aircraft.

One of the biggest unit cost savings of Air Canada Rouge, is simply adding 15-20% more seats per aircraft. Everything else about Rouge is virtually the same as mainline Air Canada. Does Westjet have the room to add 20% more seats?

As a holder of an MBA in Aviation, I have my own theories on ways to do this. I wonder how close I'll be .... ;)
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
tphuang
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: WestJet plans to launch new Ultra Low-Cost Carrier later this year

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:51 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
In regards to the seat pitch, as someone one who flies WS several times a month, the leg room on the 700s/800s is very generous, and I'm 6'3". I try to book Plus or at least upgrade as often as possible on longer flights, but even a 4.5 hour flight from YLW-YYZ or YVR-SJD or CUN is very comfortable leg room wise.

On the WS charter flights we have for work, most flights are full so the middle seat is used in Plus as well as the last row(s) on both the 700/800 and the leg room is not an issue at all.

If you want cramped leg room, fly on one of their -600s with the older seats.

I guess I am spoiled, but the couple of times I flew WestJet when I was not in plus seating were not great experiences.

Now I am waiting in the LGA terminal d, because WestJet is late again. It takes them 40 minutes to board on a flight that is 3 hours late. I am totally not kidding here looking at ws1211 still boarding while I type. And all of this is on a one hour flight. This is what I get for picking them because I can earn miles with AA.


WS1211 aircraft has been running back and forth between YYZ and LGA all day, you can't be that surprised it's running behind. With the runway construction in YYZ and the weather in LGA, 1/4 mile in fog and 2-300 foot ceilings which you conveniently omitted in your post, there are going to be delays. The first flight this morning was an hour late, likely due to flow delays. But hey blame the airline!!!


The issues are not having enough staff here to handle the delays, turn times are too tight. The small station they have here in LGA is huge part of the problem. The area in front of gate d7 has been a zoo and the boarding time is much longer than expected Everytime I fly out of here with them. Not an issue in Toronto at all. I have flown air Canada a lot more on this route and no similar issues other than the usual LGA delays.

Add on top of that, my original comment is just seat width and pitch that I think is on the smaller end for me at least. As I said, if they shrink it even further, it will be a really fun. experience!

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