mozart
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Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:14 pm

Title says it all. I am surprised to see that EI isn't using T5 at LHR given that it is part of IAG.

Yes, T5 is overcrowded already, but isn't DUB a more important market than for instance than Palma, Bologna or Stuttgart, which all do leave from T5?
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:17 pm

They've invested a lot of money in T2 at LHR with a new lounge.

It also serves IAG's interests as they can keep an eye on what other airlines are up to in T2, just as BA used to do by having one route to Miami in T3 before T5 opened.
 
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hispanola
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:21 pm

Another reason could be congestion at T5. Sure IB and I2 fly out of T5, but their operation isn't nearly as large as EI's.
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Cipango
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:21 pm

EI is the third or fourth largest carrier in Heathrow and I believe it is due to their volume of flights that they aren't moving to T5 as theres a lack of available gates.

T2 is an easy terminal to fly in and out of and connecting from T2 to T5 is relatively straight forward. I don't see any immediate rush to make room for EI at T5.
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BrianDromey
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:26 pm

EI have around 30 daily LHR flights to Ireland (DUB, ORK, SNN and BHD). There's just nowhere to fit all of these at T5, which only has 1 (maybe 2) gates which can handle arrivals from the RoI.
T2 is new, has EI specific gates, branding and EIs own lounge. EI does connect a huge amount of traffic over LHR, but also have more O&D traffic (just). Connecting passengers can just as easily use BAs own metal from BHD and DUB, I believe EI still bus passengers from the rear door of the aircraft to flight connections - so there's no great advantage to being at T5, in fact it would be a negative if transferring to non-BA airlines.

Also bear in mind that EI doesn't use Amadeus or other IAG systems, yet, so there's no operational advantage either.
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usflyer msp
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:42 pm

The whole point of purchasing EI was to move connecting traffic from LHR to DUB. Virtually all of EI's traffic has LHR as the origin or destination not as a connection point, so there is really no advantage to moving closer to BA.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:23 pm

If there was to be any sort of change I'd advocate BA serving LHR-ORK and LHR-SNN from T5 in place of its LHR-DUB flights, with EI operating exclusively LHR-DUB from T2 (upping its frequencies using its slots freed up from SNN and ORK).
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Polot
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:28 pm

FlyCaledonian wrote:
If there was to be any sort of change I'd advocate BA serving LHR-ORK and LHR-SNN from T5 in place of its LHR-DUB flights, with EI operating exclusively LHR-DUB from T2 (upping its frequencies using its slots freed up from SNN and ORK).

That makes using LHR as a connecting point (i.e. flights to Asia) more of a hassle for DUB pax though.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:47 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
I believe EI still bus passengers from the rear door of the aircraft to flight connections - so there's no great advantage to being at T5

The special flight connections bus designated for EI flights is gone now (I think it became obsolete when T2 opened and EI moved across). Also as far as I know there's no longer a central "flight connections" facility - all terminals have flight connections buses serving each terminal now.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:51 pm

FlyCaledonian wrote:
If there was to be any sort of change I'd advocate BA serving LHR-ORK and LHR-SNN from T5 in place of its LHR-DUB flights, with EI operating exclusively LHR-DUB from T2 (upping its frequencies using its slots freed up from SNN and ORK).

EI's slots for all DUB/SNN/ORK-LHR flights are protected for seven years (until 2022) under a condition of the sale of EI to IAG by the Irish Government. This means IAG cannot "switch" them to BA or remove the existing EI flights to these airports during this timeframe.

http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 26631.html
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:52 pm

Polot wrote:
FlyCaledonian wrote:
If there was to be any sort of change I'd advocate BA serving LHR-ORK and LHR-SNN from T5 in place of its LHR-DUB flights, with EI operating exclusively LHR-DUB from T2 (upping its frequencies using its slots freed up from SNN and ORK).

That makes using LHR as a connecting point (i.e. flights to Asia) more of a hassle for DUB pax though.


They can use the BA operated flights...
 
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TheLion
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:50 am

AmricanShamrok wrote:
FlyCaledonian wrote:
If there was to be any sort of change I'd advocate BA serving LHR-ORK and LHR-SNN from T5 in place of its LHR-DUB flights, with EI operating exclusively LHR-DUB from T2 (upping its frequencies using its slots freed up from SNN and ORK).

EI's slots for all DUB/SNN/ORK-LHR flights are protected for seven years (until 2022) under a condition of the sale of EI to IAG by the Irish Government. This means IAG cannot "switch" them to BA or remove the existing EI flights to these airports during this timeframe.

http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 26631.html


Yes a good point. I doubt that they will change much after 2022, except perhaps upguage some Dublin frequencies to A330 to free up slots to enable them to add some T5 connecting flights from the likes of SNN, ORK, BFS (International) and perhaps even NOC and LDY, whether on BA or EI. In time these markets will grow, with new investment and companies locating there, and so will need air service to help facilitate that growth.
 
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Polot
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:25 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Polot wrote:
FlyCaledonian wrote:
If there was to be any sort of change I'd advocate BA serving LHR-ORK and LHR-SNN from T5 in place of its LHR-DUB flights, with EI operating exclusively LHR-DUB from T2 (upping its frequencies using its slots freed up from SNN and ORK).

That makes using LHR as a connecting point (i.e. flights to Asia) more of a hassle for DUB pax though.


They can use the BA operated flights...

If you actually read what I quoted you would see the poster was advocating BA dropping LHR-DUB and EI exclusively operating the route from T2.
 
Arion640
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:34 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
They've invested a lot of money in T2 at LHR with a new lounge.

It also serves IAG's interests as they can keep an eye on what other airlines are up to in T2, just as BA used to do by having one route to Miami in T3 before T5 opened.


keep an eye? IAG is a policeman and the Star alliance carriers are drug dealing.

But more to the point theres not enough room for all of BA's flights at T5 let alone EI as well! Thats why there at T3, the point of BA at T5 was to put all the flights under one roof but this has still not happened.

If you dig deep enough you can see there are plans for T5D and possibly E around the same time as the third runway. Then I expect BA, IB, EI will be under one roof. I also expect by that time there will be some consolidation of EI slots.
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usflyer msp
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:57 pm

Polot wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Polot wrote:
That makes using LHR as a connecting point (i.e. flights to Asia) more of a hassle for DUB pax though.


They can use the BA operated flights...

If you actually read what I quoted you would see the poster was advocating BA dropping LHR-DUB and EI exclusively operating the route from T2.


My bad, I misread your post.

It is highly unlikely that LHR-DUB would go completely EI, IMHO. Of course, BA did not serve DUB at all until the BMI purchase so I guess anything is possible...
 
vv701
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:51 am

The Republic of Ireland, and the UK together with the Chanel Islands and the Isle of Man are all part of the CTA (Common Travel Area). In most respects the immigration rules within this area match those of Schengen, The internal structure of any terminal within the CTA that can accept passengers from another CTA location is, for efficiency reasons , designed to be able to cope with the predicted passenger flows. The CTA immigration area at T5 needed to be in balance with that for domestic and other overseas arrivals. If there was sufficient room for EI flights at T5 (that is too small to handle all of BA's flights) it would require extensive modifications to the immigration areas with the likely disruption and delays associated with the resulting internal construction work.

Similarly the internal design of the recently opened LHR T2 has a CTA immigration area to accept the quite significant flow of passengers disembarking from EI flights that has the fourth largest number of flights of any airline using LHR and disembarks more passengers from the CTA than any other airline.. Even if there was room to relocate EI flights to T5, conversion of the recently constructed T2 internal area to only accept non-CTA traffic would be disruptive and an unwarranted and significant cost that LHR passengers would end up financing by increased fares.

Even if none of the above were to apply moving EI from T2 to T5 would require BA flights to move from T5 to T2, T3 or T4. Those flights that would need to be moved in the chosen terminal(s) to make way for those BA flights would nullify the current planned layout to the disadvantage of oneworld, Star and / or Sky Team transiting passengers.

Regrettably we do not live in an ideal world. It is not even possible for passenger handling facilities in a terminal at the design stage to accurately meet changing passenger flows in total, by airline alliance, airline group or by individual airline even on the date when a new terminal is first opened. This is particularly true in very large, full and / or almost full airport like LHR.

For example few would have predicted 10 years ago that having separated from oneworld in 2007 EI would have become an IAG member in 2015. Note here that T2 construction started in 2009 and that it first opened in 2014. So the design stage for T2 probably coincided with EI's separation from BA and other oneworld members, not with their 2015 new sisterhood with BA. That was soon after they had moved into brand new, purpose designed and CTA compliant facilities a year earlier.
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:08 pm

Arion640 wrote:
keep an eye? IAG is a policeman and the Star alliance carriers are drug dealing.


Before BA moved from T1/T4 to T3/T5, by operating just one route (MIA) from T3 they could sit on the terminal committee meetings and hear what Virgin were asking of the airport.
 
Arion640
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:10 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
keep an eye? IAG is a policeman and the Star alliance carriers are drug dealing.


Before BA moved from T1/T4 to T3/T5, by operating just one route (MIA) from T3 they could sit on the terminal committee meetings and hear what Virgin were asking of the airport.


Wow that is highly clever of them and highly amusing. :D
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skipness1E
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Re: Why doesn't Aer Lingus use T5 at Heathrow?

Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:19 pm

Why would they need to do any work at T2 to accept non CTA traffic? Surely the Aer Lingus gates are dual purpose? 226-223 are domestic able and 221-223 are CTA able as well but I think all except 221 are often used by EU inbounds. Remember BA and Iberia still both fly MAD-LHR so I suspect EI and BA will both maintain DUB.

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