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KarelXWB
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IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 11:49 am

IndiGo is set to enter the regional space and announces plans to order 50 ATR 72-600 aircraft.

European turboprop maker ATR has signed a provisional order to sell 50 ATR 72-600 aircraft, worth more than $1.3 billion at list price, to Indian airline IndiGo, the companies said on Tuesday.

ATR, which is jointly owned by Airbus (AIR.PA) and Italian company Leonardo (LDOF.MI), said the aircraft were set to start operations by the end of 2017.

If completed, the IndiGo plane deal would mark the biggest order for ATR, whose rivals include Bombardier (BBDb.TO), in at least a decade.


Article
http://in.reuters.com/article/us-atr-in ... NKBN18517X

Another major turboprop order for ATR.
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ap305
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional aviation market

Tue May 09, 2017 11:53 am

A very needed move for 6E IMHO... The atr is somewhat of a pain to fly on as a passenger but the costs are unmatched.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 11:58 am

Just read an interview with ATR's CEO, who appeared to be extremely confident, now I know the reason why...
http://www.aerotelegraph.com/atr-koennt ... stall-sein
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 12:04 pm

From the earnings presentation:

https://www.goindigo.in/content/dam/goi ... 4-FY17.pdf

Signed term sheet with ATR for purchase of 50 ATR 72-600s with flexibility to reduce the number of aircraft deliveries based on certain conditions:

- Turboprop operations expected to commence by the end of calendar 2017
- Expected to induct 20 ATR aircraft by December 2018
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 12:11 pm

Quote a significant order for ATR, what is their output these days?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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N14AZ
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 12:22 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Quote a significant order for ATR, what is their output these days?

80 airframes per year, fresh from the interview I linked above (unfortunately only in German):

Das Umfeld ist hart, aber mit der Stabilisierung der Produktionsrate bei 80 Fliegern pro Jahr hat ATR die Reiseflughöhe erreicht. Wir haben einen Auftragsbestand von fast 200 Flugzeugen und damit für fast drei Jahre.


Backlog is roughly 200 airframes, i.e. almost three years.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 12:43 pm

Congrats. That's where the next 1 million passengers are coming from in Indian skies.

Among other things, bye bye VGF. however RCS will stay for political reasons.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 1:11 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Quote a significant order for ATR, what is their output these days?

80 airframes per year, fresh from the interview I linked above (unfortunately only in German):

Das Umfeld ist hart, aber mit der Stabilisierung der Produktionsrate bei 80 Fliegern pro Jahr hat ATR die Reiseflughöhe erreicht. Wir haben einen Auftragsbestand von fast 200 Flugzeugen und damit für fast drei Jahre.


Backlog is roughly 200 airframes, i.e. almost three years.


Thanks for that! So this one order accounts for almost 2/3 years of production. Quite amazing order to put it in that perspective.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 1:17 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Quote a significant order for ATR, what is their output these days?

80 airframes per year, fresh from the interview I linked above (unfortunately only in German):

Das Umfeld ist hart, aber mit der Stabilisierung der Produktionsrate bei 80 Fliegern pro Jahr hat ATR die Reiseflughöhe erreicht. Wir haben einen Auftragsbestand von fast 200 Flugzeugen und damit für fast drei Jahre.


Backlog is roughly 200 airframes, i.e. almost three years.


But obviously with not all slots filled neither for 2017 or 2018. Both (the coming) Iran Air aircraft and these for Indigo have rather short time from order to first delivery
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 1:31 pm

Someone83 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Quote a significant order for ATR, what is their output these days?

80 airframes per year, fresh from the interview I linked above (unfortunately only in German):

Das Umfeld ist hart, aber mit der Stabilisierung der Produktionsrate bei 80 Fliegern pro Jahr hat ATR die Reiseflughöhe erreicht. Wir haben einen Auftragsbestand von fast 200 Flugzeugen und damit für fast drei Jahre.


Backlog is roughly 200 airframes, i.e. almost three years.


But obviously with not all slots filled neither for 2017 or 2018. Both (the coming) Iran Air aircraft and these for Indigo have rather short time from order to first delivery



Perhaps, with the Iranian and Indian orders, now they have :)
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 1:45 pm

Jet Airways and Air India Regional are the two major operators of the ATR in India. SpiceJet fly Q400s.

Jet in particular better watch out. Certain stations like IXE and the North East will certainly be targeted by 6E.
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 1:51 pm

Jet Airways and Air India Regional operate just a small ATR fleet though. With such large order, it sounds like IndiGo wants to dominate the regional market.
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 1:55 pm

Alliance Air India signed agreement for lease of 10 ATR72-600 last week.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1361999
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 1:56 pm

AI will have 40 ATRs in 3 years and at least 10xDo228s. Recently signed for 10 ATR72-600s from DAE (thru GECAS portfolio purchase).

With JetLite gone, Jet Airways probably not interest in this market.

Biggest loser is SG. If it ordered 50 ATRs along with MAX, it would have had forerunner advantage.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 1:57 pm

some other interesting things:
“In support of our Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s UDAN vision, we are embarking on a journey to build a nationwide regional network and connect cities that have not benefited from the growth in Indian aviation,” IndiGo’s president and Whole-time Director Aditya Ghosh said.
IndiGo plans to start regional aircraft operations by end of this year and expects to induct up to 20 ATR aircraft by December 2018.
The airline will set up a separate division to run turboprop aircraft operations, separate from the company’s main divisions. “We will have a focussed division with complete responsibility to run turboprop operations. It will be an autonomous body, which will not overlap with our narrow body operations,” Mr. Ghosh said.



http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/i ... 414623.ece
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 2:44 pm

This will give indigo and its passengers more flexibility.
This is a good move IMO.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 3:05 pm

btw, see the difference. When 6E ordered its first 100 A320s in 2004, everyone doubted it.
Today no one is questioning the feasibility of these 50 ATRs!
 
unrave
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 3:33 pm

Yes. The amount of skepticism, disbelief, and condescension in the IndiGo's 100 aircraft order thread from 2004 is surreal if you read it now. Several posters had in fact expressed joy about Boeing losing out on this order to Airbus because "it is a vapour order for a paper airline in a tiny market." Always take armchair A,net analyst comments with a bagful of salt!
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 3:45 pm

this is the link to 2005 order thread: viewtopic.php?t=335629
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 5:29 pm

Air India Regional was rebranded as Alliance Air in March with a new livery https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/stock/3114.jpg
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Tue May 09, 2017 8:10 pm

The ATR can bee a very useful tool in India, if airlines don't abuse it for long city pairs that would be better served by jets. But in many scenarios a 45 minute ATR flight could successfully compete with an over 12 hour ride on Indian Railways.

Spiderguy252 wrote:
Jet Airways and Air India Regional are the two major operators of the ATR in India. SpiceJet fly Q400s.

Jet in particular better watch out. Certain stations like IXE and the North East will certainly be targeted by 6E.


Yes, the Q400 are clearly disadvanteged: propeller planes with costs close to those of the CRJ200 will have difficulties to compete, to say it mildly.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Wed May 10, 2017 3:10 am

anshabhi wrote:
some other interesting things:
“In support of our Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s UDAN vision, we are embarking on a journey to build a nationwide regional network and connect cities that have not benefited from the growth in Indian aviation,” IndiGo’s president and Whole-time Director Aditya Ghosh said.
IndiGo plans to start regional aircraft operations by end of this year and expects to induct up to 20 ATR aircraft by December 2018.
The airline will set up a separate division to run turboprop aircraft operations, separate from the company’s main divisions. “We will have a focussed division with complete responsibility to run turboprop operations. It will be an autonomous body, which will not overlap with our narrow body operations,” Mr. Ghosh said.



http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/i ... 414623.ece


It wont be surprising if the PMO office directly spoke to the airline to shed their apprehensions on UDAN. With inaguration of Delhi-Shimla flight by PM it was clear that UDAN has become a National Project for the current Govt.

The total tally of ATR's ordered by Indian Airline would actually change the aviation map of India by 2020
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Wed May 10, 2017 3:45 am

I wonder what impact would this have on smaller players like Trujet, Air Odisha and Deccan Air...
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Wed May 10, 2017 4:12 am

Spiderguy252 wrote:
Jet Airways and Air India Regional are the two major operators of the ATR in India. SpiceJet fly Q400s.

Jet in particular better watch out. Certain stations like IXE and the North East will certainly be targeted by 6E.


They're already in IXE with A320s, nonetheless.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Wed May 10, 2017 5:26 am

Congratulation to IndiGo and Airbus if the agreement is successfully concluded.

6E is mopping up almost every decent, good used A320ceo despite taking delivery of A320neo. It seems like they are one of the best run airlines in the world, registering almost, if not, all consecutive period with profit. How will AirAsia India, Vistara, Spicejet and Jet Airways respond? Air India has their fleet of ATR 72-600 to fight 6E.

Sidetrack, while ATR 72-600 is making news in India, it is different here in Malaysia. All -600s are now grounded with nowhere to go. Operation cost is much higher compared to -500s. 6E can put them to good use if they want to start early.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Wed May 10, 2017 6:27 am

anshabhi wrote:
I wonder what impact would this have on smaller players like Trujet, Air Odisha and Deccan Air...


You can add Air Carnival to that list as well, but those carriers come and go (Costa, Paramount, Pegasus, etc etc) - the only ones that have stuck are the mainline FSCs and LCCs: AI, 9W, 6E, UK, SG, G8.
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Wed May 10, 2017 11:06 am

juliuswong wrote:
...
Sidetrack, while ATR 72-600 is making news in India, it is different here in Malaysia. All -600s are now grounded with nowhere to go. Operation cost is much higher compared to -500s. 6E can put them to good use if they want to start early.


If I am not mistaken those Ireland lessor owned, Isle of Man registered and parked in Malaysia are crap and main reason Indian startups are dropping like flies.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Thu May 11, 2017 1:18 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
...
Sidetrack, while ATR 72-600 is making news in India, it is different here in Malaysia. All -600s are now grounded with nowhere to go. Operation cost is much higher compared to -500s. 6E can put them to good use if they want to start early.


If I am not mistaken those Ireland lessor owned, Isle of Man registered and parked in Malaysia are crap and main reason Indian startups are dropping like flies.

Not really, those MASwings and Fireflyz ATR 72-600 bear Malaysia registration (9M-MYA- 9M-MYD (4) for MASwings and 9M-FIA to 9M-FIH (8) for FY, bought by Malaysia Airlines Berhad brand new, not leased. Oldest being 4 years old. From what I read on local forum, they are maintenance hogs and part are hard to come by. Not really beneficial to both airlines apart from carrying four extra passengers.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Thu May 11, 2017 12:39 pm

This would be a much needed boost for ATR after a slow 2016 sales year and worries about the ATR's future versus the new RJ's.

Congratulation to IndiGo and Airbus if the agreement is successfully concluded.

Actually, ATR is a JV between Airbus and Alenia (now Leonardo). So congrats to Leonardo as well.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Thu May 11, 2017 12:49 pm

juliuswong wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
...
Sidetrack, while ATR 72-600 is making news in India, it is different here in Malaysia. All -600s are now grounded with nowhere to go. Operation cost is much higher compared to -500s. 6E can put them to good use if they want to start early.


If I am not mistaken those Ireland lessor owned, Isle of Man registered and parked in Malaysia are crap and main reason Indian startups are dropping like flies.

Not really, those MASwings and Fireflyz ATR 72-600 bear Malaysia registration (9M-MYA- 9M-MYD (4) for MASwings and 9M-FIA to 9M-FIH (8) for FY, bought by Malaysia Airlines Berhad brand new, not leased. Oldest being 4 years old. From what I read on local forum, they are maintenance hogs and part are hard to come by. Not really beneficial to both airlines apart from carrying four extra passengers.


Thanks for the clarification. The ones giving trouble to Indian startups are M-regs.

Any idea why 4 year old ATRs are mx hogs? Owners can try to lease/sub-lease to Indian carriers. If they are not repo-happy like Irish lessors they can actually make good money.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Fri May 26, 2017 3:34 pm

No one reported this??

9W will retire its entire ATR 72 fleet:
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 618_1.html
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Fri May 26, 2017 3:54 pm

anshabhi wrote:
No one reported this??

9W will retire its entire ATR 72 fleet:
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 618_1.html


Well the thread is about Indigo..
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Fri May 26, 2017 5:21 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
No one reported this??

9W will retire its entire ATR 72 fleet:
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 618_1.html


Well the thread is about Indigo..


The article mentions that Indigo wants to start ATR72 ops while Jet is dropping theirs due to difficulties with staffing the planes and high maintenance costs. Indigo might face the same challenges with a fleet three times larger than Jet's.

How come 86-seat Q400s are not considered in India? Nok Air in Thailand appear to have success with their 86-seat Q400s...
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Fri May 26, 2017 5:37 pm

Spice Jet uses the Q400's.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Fri May 26, 2017 6:06 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Any idea why 4 year old ATRs are mx hogs? Owners can try to lease/sub-lease to Indian carriers. If they are not repo-happy like Irish lessors they can actually make good money.


I've heard the same from European airlines too, they specified that the cabin was giving them some problems related to the wear and tear. The source I heard it from blamed passengers for treating the aircraft like sh*t, but I suspect that a low quality along with a ton of cycles (possibly up to twice as many as a 737 or A320) could be part of the reason too.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Mon May 29, 2017 9:14 am

CRJ900 wrote:
The article mentions that Indigo wants to start ATR72 ops while Jet is dropping theirs due to difficulties with staffing the planes and high maintenance costs. Indigo might face the same challenges with a fleet three times larger than Jet's.


Perhaps. But the ATR72 outsells the Q400 by a huge margin, so it seems most airlines find the lower operating costs more important than the maintenance costs.
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:09 am

ATR painted an ATR-72 in IndiGo colors. Aircraft is currently being displayed at the Paris air show.

Image
https://leehamnews.com/2017/06/17/view- ... -air-show/
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anshabhi
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:41 am

KarelXWB wrote:
ATR painted an ATR-72 in IndiGo colors. Aircraft is currently being displayed at the Paris air show.

Image
https://leehamnews.com/2017/06/17/view- ... -air-show/

Nice!

When is it likely to be delivered?
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:52 am

Wonder if this means a deal has been signed?
Or ATR are leasing one to indigo to see if it works in their fleet.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:54 am

I guess it means the deal will be signed at the Paris air show later this week.
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:39 pm

juliuswong wrote:
It seems like they are one of the best run airlines in the world, registering almost, if not, all consecutive period with profit.

Hold on there! I would stick my head out and say 6E is KF part deux - exactly the same operations team and exactly the same mistakes. The acquisition of ATR's is a turning point. I feared it, but never thought it would happen. Its just not going to work.

juliuswong wrote:
Sidetrack, while ATR 72-600 is making news in India, it is different here in Malaysia. All -600s are now grounded with nowhere to go. Operation cost is much higher compared to -500s. 6E can put them to good use if they want to start early.

As journalists, we have now learnt to exercise caution about this source. But according to my WhatsApp network, some of those Malaysian -600's are heading to India.
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unrave
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:14 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
I would stick my head out and say 6E is KF part deux


India's most profitable airline over the last decade surely has to be doing something different than an airline that did not have a single profitable quarter?
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:03 pm

unrave wrote:
BawliBooch wrote:
I would stick my head out and say 6E is KF part deux


India's most profitable airline over the last decade surely has to be doing something different than an airline that did not have a single profitable quarter?


Also, not to forget that some of the regional ATR routes will be subsided.
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:43 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
CRJ900 wrote:
The article mentions that Indigo wants to start ATR72 ops while Jet is dropping theirs due to difficulties with staffing the planes and high maintenance costs. Indigo might face the same challenges with a fleet three times larger than Jet's.


Perhaps. But the ATR72 outsells the Q400 by a huge margin, so it seems most airlines find the lower operating costs more important than the maintenance costs.

huge margin? less than 100%...
 
georgiabill
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:38 pm

I would think if India Government wants air service to connect smaller cities, the Indian railways will be hurting
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:00 am

georgiabill wrote:
I would think if India Government wants air service to connect smaller cities, the Indian railways will be hurting


Effect of RCS on Indian Railways will be negligible. There is always a waiting list for reservations in all the classes on Indian Railways. For a middle class person, the first preference for travel is usually the Indian Railways. The second option is the private and government buses for regional routes.

Trains carry thousand of passengers per trip. Buses carry less than 100 per trip. The private bus operators will be losing the business.
 
SCAT15F
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:32 am

ATR needs to come out with that 90 seater, pronto...
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:36 am

sq421 wrote:
Also, not to forget that some of the regional ATR routes will be subsided.


Not all routes are "subsided". Specific routes alloted using a bidding system are entitled to a subsidy. Our team is working on uncovering a scam in the allotment of these RCS routes. Coming soon! :)

unrave wrote:
India's most profitable airline over the last decade surely has to be doing something different than an airline that did not have a single profitable quarter?


Indigo has only released its financial reports since 2014 or so. Everything before that was media spin. Repeated queries for audited results used to get us the "We are not a listed company and dont have to furnish those results" line. Many of us who saw Indigo rise found it hard to make sense of their success: the numbers just didnt add up. Something was amiss. It all seemed like KF all over again.

For the first few years, KF was called profitable too by the same media-pundits. The PR team, core operations and even the bunch of fawning journos writing paeans are the same. Hence KF part-deux. As we call it in India, its Deja-Chu! :P

Part of what has come to mean the LCC rulebook is single-type fleet, no loyalty program and so on. Indigo has broken both these rules the past month. Moving to a 320-ATR mixed fleet and introducing a loyalty program. Let's see how long they last.
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:42 am

unrave wrote:
BawliBooch wrote:
I would stick my head out and say 6E is KF part deux


India's most profitable airline over the last decade surely has to be doing something different than an airline that did not have a single profitable quarter?


Their only mistake was participating in dear leader's RCS, I assume. (for some journalists who also have a WhatsApp group).

I am telling you, SG is next!
 
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Re: IndiGo to purchase 50 ATR72-600s, eyes regional market

Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:46 am

anshabhi wrote:
Their only mistake was participating in dear leader's RCS, I assume. (for some journalists who also have a WhatsApp group).

I am telling you, SG is next!


Indigo did NOT participate in the first round of RCS.

Thats why you shouldn't believe everything you hear in WhatsApp groups!
L' Esprit de Mai 68

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